Eradicating Bacteria

[discushobbies]

I am currently treating my tank with Furan 2. When the treatment is done will the discus now be immune to the bacteria and can't get sick from it again? Can you completely eradicate the bacteria from them or will they carry it even though they look healthy?

[John_Nicholson]

Other than living in a sterile environment you cannot get rid of all bacteria nor would you want too. 99.99% of bacteria is either beneficial or of no harm. Right now you literally have millions of bacterial cells growing on your own body right now. It is pretty much impossible to answer your question unless you sent a fish in to a fish pathologist to isolate and determine the real problem. The reason no one else has answered is it would just be guess work at best.

-john

[brewmaster15]

I am currently treating my tank with Furan 2. When the treatment is done will the discus now be immune to the bacteria and can't get sick from it again? Can you completely eradicate the bacteria from them or will they carry it even though they look healthy? The short answer is no. Alls you have done is kill any bacteria susceptible to nitrofurazone and furazolidone at the dose you dosed. Even among those you will still have a small number that are tolerant and survive. This in turn can lead to bacterial resistance to medications if over used. The way furan 2 works is to destroy and weaken bacteria so your fishes immune system can deal with the rest. Its largely how any antibiotic works. Antibiotics do not impart immunity to the fish or human treated.

hth,
al

[DJW]

With bacterial or viral infection it is like a race between the immune system and the germs. Antibiotics, or anti-virals, slow down the growth of the germs, giving the immune system time to mount a defense.

[discushobbies]

Where does the bacteria or viral infection come from?

[HappyFace]

Bacteria and viruses are everywhere. This link helps describe how/why fish get some infections. http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=16+2160&aid=584

I treat with Aqua Medzyme in between and after medicating. I believe it helps them to prevent further illness and secondary infections.

[discushobbies]

Can it be purely from the water? After treating my discus, they continue to be dark only at times. There is no more white stuff or anything pertaining to bacteria. Also the thing is they are startled very easily. At moments they start bolting around the tank frantically.

Also, two of the discus which are stunted and runts, because they are stunted/runts are they more at risk for getting sick easily or become sick? I saw the two of them on their side when I was turning the lights on. As they got used to the lights the swam back up but their fins are close their sides.

[brewmaster15]

Can it be purely from the water? After treating my discus, they continue to be dark only at times. There is no more white stuff or anything pertaining to bacteria. Also the thing is they are startled very easily. At moments they start bolting around the tank frantically.

Also, two of the discus which are stunted and runts, because they are stunted/runts are they more at risk for getting sick easily or become sick? I saw the two of them on their side when I was turning the lights on. As they got used to the lights the swam back up but their fins are close their sides.

have you checked your ammonia and Nitrite levels? After using an antibiotic like Furan 2 you will generally see an ammonia spike, and then a a few days latter, a nitrite spike. These will make fish very skittish especially the nitrite.

al

[Cosmo]

As Al alluded to, anti-biotics tend to kill off beneficial bacteria (the stuff that keeps your fish alive) the same as it hopefully kills off the bacteria that made your sick fish. You should both monitor ammonia and nitrites very closely after treatment AND do daily WCs to remove any built up ammonia or nitirites so that spikes are mitigated or prevented entirely. Eliminate all bacteria and there would be no life on this planet. The things that make your fish sick usually are introduced into the aquarium riding on/in other fish or plants, or your hands if you don't wash your hands/arms before inserting them into the tank. The behavior you described could be they are stressed from one of the spikes Al mentioned, or, from too infrequent tank maintenance. or both :p

[runner]

I think that this also makes the case for treating fish in a separate qt tank. Treating them in their original tank will kill the beneficial bacteria on the sponge filers, hence the ammonia and nitrite spike.
Jay

[discushobbies]

Ammonia is at 1ppm, Nitrites are at 2ppm.

Should I pour in tetra safestart while the discus are still in the tank to start the bacteria?

[DJW]

Ammonia is at 1ppm, Nitrites are at 2ppm.

Should I pour in tetra safestart while the discus are still in the tank to start the bacteria?

That's a high level of nitrites. You should do a big WC and use some salt to block nitrite toxicity, around 1 teaspoon per 20 gallons is plenty. Keep that level of salt with WC's until the filter catches up. Daily water changes should continue.

And yes, you can pour it right into the filter intake.

[discushobbies]

Should I also use safe to neutralize the ammonia and nitrites?

[DJW]

You can use an extra dose of Safe while the filter gets up to speed. It changes ammonia and nitrite into a less toxic form that the beneficial bacteria can still consume. Safe or Prime only detoxifies for about 24 hours, so its not a substitute for daily WC's.

If you are doing this you can cut the salt dose in half, especially if you have plants in the tank.

After using Safe the ammonia test still shows positive for ammonia even though it has been made non-toxic.

Dan

[Cosmo]

That's a high level of nitrites. You should do a big WC and use some salt to block nitrite toxicity, around 1 teaspoon per 20 gallons is plenty. Keep that level of salt with WC's until the filter catches up. Daily water changes should continue.

And yes, you can pour it right into the filter intake.


+1

[discushobbies]

And yes, you can pour it right into the filter intake.

I have a sponge filter so do I take it out and pour tetra safestart directly on it? With the fish still in the tank?

[DJW]

You can dump it anywhere in the tank, it won't hurt the fish. I suggested putting it in the filter because that's where you want it to end up. You could just lift the sponge above the water and pour it around the top of the sponge, that might help the bacteria collect in the sponge where it belongs.

Did you get all the antibiotics out of the water?

[discushobbies]

You can dump it anywhere in the tank, it won't hurt the fish. I suggested putting it in the filter because that's where you want it to end up. You could just lift the sponge above the water and pour it around the top of the sponge, that might help the bacteria collect in the sponge where it belongs.

Did you get all the antibiotics out of the water?

Yes, all antibiotics have been completely cleared. I did a 100% water change after finishing the treatment.

[chuckiesmalls]

Other than living in a sterile environment you cannot get rid of all bacteria nor would you want too. 99.99% of bacteria is either beneficial or of no harm. Right now you literally have millions of bacterial cells growing on your own body right now. It is pretty much impossible to answer your question unless you sent a fish in to a fish pathologist to isolate and determine the real problem. The reason no one else has answered is it would just be guess work at best.

-john

Whoa. I feel like Mr. Burns on the Simpsons episode where he freaks out about bacteria! LOL

[chuckiesmalls]

what is considered too much salt then? I hear 1 tablespoon for every 10. It seems the school of thought on salt has changed somewhat kinda sorta recently then maybe?