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thommo75
02-25-2016, 05:34 AM
Guys,
Having dramas with the nitrates in my tank. Ammonia and nitrites are zero. I have 100 gallon tank, eheim 2217 canister filter with prefilter sponge on intake, fine sand substrate. I have four discus, two adults and two medium size. Also have 15 tetras and five juvie peppermint bn. The bn create fair bit of waste. I have one medium size anubias.

I feed three times a day and do water changes 2-3 times per week /50-70%.

Nitrites constantly at 40ppm.

ruudvk
02-25-2016, 05:44 AM
Hi Neil,

Can you tell us a bit more about your tank?
- For how long is your tank running?
- Is your filter cycled? Did you clean your filter recently?
- What are your tap water parameters?
- What are your full tank water parameters? pH, NH3/NH4, N02, N03, GH and KH?
- Ammonia and nitrites are 0, I assume you misspelled and your nitrATES are 40ppm?

Filip
02-25-2016, 10:10 AM
Until you figure out what's the problem, up the WC regime and feed lower amounts of only dry foods.

Second Hand Pat
02-25-2016, 10:13 AM
Hi Neil, Ruud suggested testing your tank water. Could you also test the nitrates in your source water.
Pat

thommo75
02-25-2016, 09:42 PM
- The tank has been running for about three months and has been fully cycled.
- I haven't cleaned the filter since then.
- tap parameters - ph 7, TDM - 140, nitrates 0.
- tank parameters - PH 6.9, ammonia 0, nitrites - 0, nitrates - 40ppm, GH & KH - 5, TDM 160.

Darrell Ward
02-25-2016, 10:35 PM
I suspect the nitrate levels are coming from dirty filter media. It happens.

thommo75
02-25-2016, 11:12 PM
What's the best way to clean canister filter without destroying good bacteria.

rickztahone
02-25-2016, 11:21 PM
What's the best way to clean canister filter without destroying good bacteria.

Simply don't wash the actual media and only sponges and toss out any filter floss and replace. I like to wash the sponges in tank water, but I believe some people wash them in regular tap.

Second Hand Pat
02-25-2016, 11:28 PM
Simply don't wash the actual media and only sponges and toss out any filter floss and replace. I like to wash the sponges in tank water, but I believe some people wash them in regular tap.

Tap with Chlorine Ricardo?

rickztahone
02-25-2016, 11:33 PM
Tap with Chlorine Ricardo?

Yeah, if you don't have chlorine in your tap water then I would rinse the sponges (only) in the tap water. I figured that I always wash my sponge filters in a 5g bucket with tank water, I would do the same with the sponges in the canister filter.

Darrell Ward
02-26-2016, 08:35 AM
If you have enough bio-media for the load of the tank, and you apparently do, because you're not having ammonia spikes, you can rinse all the media in tank water without doing much harm. You could use de-chlorinated tap water, but I always felt safer using tank water. Will it knock your bio-filter back some? Yes, but bacteria multiply very quickly, and chances are you won't notice a change at all. I've done this literally hundreds of times myself over decades. It's no different than rinsing out a sponge filter that you might use on a small breeding tank. I wouldn't tell you to do something that I wouldn't do with my own fish.:)

nc0gnet0
02-26-2016, 09:19 AM
Still would like to know the nitrate level of the source (tap) water. Although cleaning your filters is ALWAYS a good idea. It is my one issue with canisters (well other than power outages issues) is they can be a PITA to clean, and as a result, many don't clean them as often as they should.

Darrell Ward
02-26-2016, 09:38 AM
Still would like to know the nitrate level of the source (tap) water. Although cleaning your filters is ALWAYS a good idea. It is my one issue with canisters (well other than power outages issues) is they can be a PITA to clean, and as a result, many don't clean them as often as they should.

See post #5.

nc0gnet0
02-26-2016, 09:43 AM
See post #5.

oops missed that. What's TDM?

Second Hand Pat
02-26-2016, 09:46 AM
oops missed that. What's TDM?

Most likely TDS ;)

Darrell Ward
02-26-2016, 09:49 AM
Yep.

nc0gnet0
02-26-2016, 09:56 AM
Never had TDS go up 20 points, must be substrate leaching some calcium?

DJW
02-26-2016, 11:36 AM
Nitrate, being a charged ion, should contribute something to the conductivity?

I can't make the nitrate numbers add up. Unless there was a whole bunch of rotting uneaten food somewhere generating ammonia-nitrates like crazy.

Maybe test the tap water for nitrites... they would quickly be converted to nitrates.

SlimmSnake
02-26-2016, 05:18 PM
I'm sure it's from a ton of rotting debris inside the canister filter. I clean my canister filter at least once a week, sometimes twice a week. All the food and poo and whatever that gets sucked in there just sits inside and continues to rot - you have to get the gunk OUT of the canister, or else it's the same as though it's all still sitting in your tank. Use a pitcher and scoop a couple gallons of the tank water into a different clean bucket, and use that to scrub out your sponges and pads that are inside the canister filter - make sure you get all the loose debris out and thrown away.

Filip
02-26-2016, 05:40 PM
I'm sure it's from a ton of rotting debris inside the canister filter. I clean my canister filter at least once a week, sometimes twice a week. All the food and poo and whatever that gets sucked in there just sits inside and continues to rot - you have to get the gunk OUT of the canister, or else it's the same as though it's all still sitting in your tank. Use a pitcher and scoop a couple gallons of the tank water into a different clean bucket, and use that to scrub out your sponges and pads that are inside the canister filter - make sure you get all the loose debris out and thrown away.

Using thick prefilters on your canister intake can keep debris levels in canister very low and postpone your cleaning period.
I couldn't even imagine my self doing this PITA task twice a week

DJW
02-26-2016, 09:57 PM
I use a pre-filter sponge that is dense enough to catch most particles of crud, and I clean the pre-filter every day with some peroxide. When I open up the canister to clean it, there is almost nothing to be done, so it gets cleaned maybe every 3 weeks whether it needs it or not. That's not a lot of work.

When canister filters first showed up they were just the coolest thing. Maybe that's why I still like them, even though they are oxygen-stingy.

modealings
02-26-2016, 10:11 PM
How thick is your sand? Could you just have a bunch of crud and bacteria hanging out down there?

rickztahone
02-26-2016, 10:33 PM
I'm sure it's from a ton of rotting debris inside the canister filter. I clean my canister filter at least once a week, sometimes twice a week. All the food and poo and whatever that gets sucked in there just sits inside and continues to rot - you have to get the gunk OUT of the canister, or else it's the same as though it's all still sitting in your tank. Use a pitcher and scoop a couple gallons of the tank water into a different clean bucket, and use that to scrub out your sponges and pads that are inside the canister filter - make sure you get all the loose debris out and thrown away.


Using thick prefilters on your canister intake can keep debris levels in canister very low and postpone your cleaning period.
I couldn't even imagine my self doing this PITA task twice a week

+1. Pre-filter FTW

thommo75
02-27-2016, 12:23 AM
I have a think layer maybe 2cm of sand substrate base which I clean thoroughly 2-3 times a week. I'm sure it's the substrate that cause the TDS to raise slightly. The tap water is 0 or very close to in terms of Nitrate. Well I've cleaned the canister filter, so fingers crossed I haven't killed too much good bacteria and it solves the nitrate issue.

May get a few more plants as only have one to help with nitrates.

Thanks for all the help.

Yoda466
02-27-2016, 02:50 PM
Kind of a strange scenario here. You are obviously creating a great deal of nitrates on an ongoing basis. That requires a significant amount of decomposing organic waste. The prefilter on your canister is a great idea. I do the same on my HOB filters and it handles the mechanical filtration well and keeps the solid gunk out of the filter and let's me get it out of the tank. How fine is your prefilter and how often are you cleaning it?

thommo75
02-29-2016, 03:40 AM
I clean my substrate thoroughly every water change, which is every 2-3 days. 60-70% water change. I cleaned my canister filter a couple of days ago. Wasn't overly dirty. However since cleaning it my nitrates have dropped down to under 10ppm. Not sure if it was due to lack of water flow or rotting waste in ten filter that was the culprit. Thanks everyone.

lksdrinker
02-29-2016, 06:04 PM
What are you using to test the nitrate? Lots of people tend to get false nitrate readings using the API liquid kit. I've never had an issue; but apparently some people just dont shake the testing agent enough. I believe bottle 2 is typically the culprit and often see others suggest banging the bottle on a table a few times and really vigorous shaking for quite a long time. For some reason I doubt thats the issue but couldn't hurt to mention.