55 Gallon Grow out - 13 discus

[jeff12]

Drove out to Kenny's today to pick up my Golden Lollipops and thought I might as well make a thread for my tank! I have been patiently(not really LOL) waiting for these since December, Kenny was sold out when I tried to get some so I ended up picking up 5 Marlboros in January instead cause I was itching for some of Kenny's fish. Finally February came...:)

Growing out discus for the first time. 13 discus in a 55 gallon BB with potted plants, will be doing 100% daily wc's with aged water. Feeding FDBW, BH, BW flakes. The goal is to get at least a pair from each of them. I don't plan on keeping all of them in this tank, just for grow outs until they pair up, maybe 5-6". The rest will eventually be sold.

3 Giant Floras - 4-4.5"
5 Marlboros - 3-4"
5 Golden Lollipops - 3.5"

They do not cooperate when taking pictures...most of the time they are looking at me and asking for food LOL

http://i1104.photobucket.com/albums/h322/JeffsDiscus/DSC_0270_zpsyntnar6z.jpg (http://s1104.photobucket.com/user/JeffsDiscus/media/DSC_0270_zpsyntnar6z.jpg.html)
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[Phillydubs]

Nice looking stock... I have to say though that's an odd footprint and while a "55 gallon" I'm not sure it's all going to be used the right way and they are going to be quite crammed.
Take it from a guy with an overstocked 55 and some big discus. Once these add some size you may face some issues.

[Filip]

Beautiful fish Jeff. Good luck raising them.
If you withstand the above stated daily routines I'm sure they will turn out to grow big and healthy.
You may encounter aggression problems once they start maturing like Philip said because your tank lacks lenght.

[Bill63SG]

Nice looking stock... I have to say though that's an odd footprint and while a "55 gallon" I'm not sure it's all going to be used the right way and they are going to be quite crammed.
Take it from a guy with an overstocked 55 and some big discus. Once these add some size you may face some issues.

Ive got to agree on the odd footprint.A "normal" 55 imo is too small and I think with your tank your going to have issues.100%wc's will help.

[Dhavalsp]

nice fish...would love to see how they turn out....long vs tall tank does not matter too much with discus, with african's yes, but very little with discus, they scale entire height of the tank.

i m growing 4 from hans in a 55 with the same footprint. my tank has substrate and is lightly planted, and i m doing 50%wc every other day, mine are at 2.5 inch though. Lets see how effective 55 balls are with raising discus....:)

[Bill63SG]

nice fish...would love to see how they turn out....long vs tall tank does not matter too much with discus, with african's yes, but very little with discus, they scale entire height of the tank.

i m growing 4 from hans in a 55 with the same footprint. my tank has substrate and is lightly planted, and i m doing 50%wc every other day, mine are at 2.5 inch though. Lets see how effective 55 balls are with raising discus....:)
I have to disagree with you about long vs tall.Its not about the space they use in the tank but your actuall surface area.Smaller surface area less fish,dosent matter on gallons.

[Wes]

Nice fish but with that bio load you may want to add the lift tube and diffuser to your sponge.

http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n622/xeriod/hydrospongeflowtn_zpsbe9b2fbf.jpg (http://s1143.photobucket.com/user/xeriod/media/hydrospongeflowtn_zpsbe9b2fbf.jpg.html)

[Dhavalsp]

I have to disagree with you about long vs tall.Its not about the space they use in the tank but your actuall surface area.Smaller surface area less fish,dosent matter on gallons.

Apologies, but I am a little confused. so tall vs long makes a difference, and you support that discus grow better in a long tank?

Well, I am sure that it is the case with lot of cichlids, my point is if you put a tangiyankan cichlid like tropheus in two separate tanks, one long and other one tall tank of same volume (same source and all)you will see a vast difference between the growth rate in the two tanks. On the other hand if you do the same with discus the difference MAY be to a lesser extent.

However, if you have solid proof or documentation proving otherwise please let me know. Thanks, Dhaval

[rickztahone]

I have personally witnessed discus be a lot more territorial with a smaller footprint 56g bowfront (36"), than a standard 55g (48"). Throw in the surface area to boot and there is no comparison.

[Rapture]

Pretty fish! I feel like it's probably hard to appreciate the size of this tank from front view photos vs in person. However, I am growing out just 6 discus in a standard 75 gallon, and I personally wouldn't want to go any smaller, just from my observations of the fish.

[jeff12]

Nice fish but with that bio load you may want to add the lift tube and diffuser to your sponge.

http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n622/xeriod/hydrospongeflowtn_zpsbe9b2fbf.jpg (http://s1143.photobucket.com/user/xeriod/media/hydrospongeflowtn_zpsbe9b2fbf.jpg.html)

I use to have a lift tube but when I was cleaning the filter it came off and I never put it back on, its at the bottom of the airline.

Since I am overstocked, I have considered adding another filter but the filters take up a lot of space. The ammonia, nitrate, and nitrite levels are all fine now so I am not sure if another one would make difference. The other option would be to add an air stone to increase the DO. Higher DO equals better growth right?

The reason why I overstocked would be if I had 6 discus, I would do 50%. IMO doing 100% for only 6 would be too much work for a small amount and also when they are so small. There will always be 50% of the old water in the tank. In this setup, they would be getting new, clean water everyday :).

[Bill63SG]

Apologies, but I am a little confused. so tall vs long makes a difference, and you support that discus grow better in a long tank?

Well, I am sure that it is the case with lot of cichlids, my point is if you put a tangiyankan cichlid like tropheus in two separate tanks, one long and other one tall tank of same volume (same source and all)you will see a vast difference between the growth rate in the two tanks. On the other hand if you do the same with discus the difference MAY be to a lesser extent.

However, if you have solid proof or documentation proving otherwise please let me know. Thanks, Dhaval
Plenty if you google,heres one example......


What Your Stocking Level Results Mean This calculator uses "surface area" to determine fish stock levels rather than gallons or litres. This is better than a calculator that uses volume alone, such as the common how many fish per gallon rule. (Reference: The Complete Aquarium by Peter W. Scott.) The surface of your aquarium is where oxygen diffuses into the water. The more surface area, the more easily oxygen diffuses, and therefore the more fish your aquarium will support. For example, a tall, narrow 29 gallon aquarium cannot maintain as many fish as a standard rectangular 29 gallon tank because less water surface contacts air. NOTE: Calculations assume the use of an air stone or a filter that disturbs the surface. Adding more air stones will not increase the number of fish your tank will support - See more at: http://www.howmanyfish.com/#sthash.9x7XOcTo.dpuf

[Phillydubs]

Nice example Bill...

OP- It may be working now as they are young and immature, but I still foresee an issue... Is this supposed to be a perm home or are you growing out to move?

Have you seen much aggression? Once the aggression and chasing starts there is limited area to go as well....

[Dhavalsp]

Bill, thanks for that reference. it is definitely helpful. with my 4 discus in 55 Tall, I am just under the limit.

[Bill63SG]

Its not hard and fast,especially with our water changes.I have a 65gal,75gal,and a 90gal,all with same footprint.I use the 90 because even with same footprint,I like to be able to change a larger volume of water.

[jeff12]

Nice example Bill...

OP- It may be working now as they are young and immature, but I still foresee an issue... Is this supposed to be a perm home or are you growing out to move?

Have you seen much aggression? Once the aggression and chasing starts there is limited area to go as well....

Some aggression but it is not as much as when I had a batch of 6. Aggression was high when there was 6.

This is not their permanent home. Until they start pairing or I see some pairing behavior then some of them would be sold. Around 5". If not I have a 55 gallon long in my storage that I picked up during the last Petco $1 gallon sale.

[Woodyg]

Looks really nice!
Where can I find information on the plants in your tank. I like the ball on the roots.
Can you explain how you do it or point me in the correct direction please?
Woody

[jeff12]

Looks really nice!
Where can I find information on the plants in your tank. I like the ball on the roots.
Can you explain how you do it or point me in the correct direction please?
Woody

Credit goes out to Toni and her wonderful invention :).

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?121368-Tank-rescape-Part-II&highlight=squishy

[magplate]

I really like the candy color look of the yellows and reds with the more conservative album floras

[Alight]

Stick a Aquaclear 70 or 100 Power Filter on your tank and you're good to go. Takes up no space in the tank, adds more water to your total and greatly increases your air space.

I've found that Discus Hans is right. More Discus = less aggression. Still, when the fish get to 4 inches, you should get out your other 55 and have it ready to move half or more of the fish to. I have found it difficult to pick out pairs in a tank with that many fish in it in quarters that close. Also, it's much easier to pick out pairs and control the aggression if you can have some rocks or cones for the fish to defend and hide behind.

[jeff12]

Update!

It has been a month and I have been holding up with those 100% daily water changes. I got rid of all the Giant Floras and replaced them with Kenny's Eruption Leopards. Made a visit to Kenny's the other day.

The biggest Marlboro grew 1/2" to 4.5".
The next two biggest Marlboro grew 1/2" -1" are now 4".
The two Marlboro runts grew 1/2" to 3.5".

One Golden Lollipop grew 3/4" to 4.25".
The rest of the Golden Lollipops grew 1/2" to 4".

I got 4 3.75" Eruption Leopards from Kenny and added them in to the tank the other day.

I feed them 2 FDBW cubes a day, maybe will have to increase to 3. I added a airstone to increase flow.

My discus refuse to swim sideways so I can get a good shot of them together.

http://i1104.photobucket.com/albums/h322/JeffsDiscus/DSC_0401_zpsfhzy9vmq.jpg (http://s1104.photobucket.com/user/JeffsDiscus/media/DSC_0401_zpsfhzy9vmq.jpg.html)
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[jeff12]

Update!

Another month, growth this month was not much. Disappointed in the growth, wanted some of them to hit 5". I had some problems with them getting hooked on FDBW cubes and tried to unhook them and had to not feed them less. I missed a few water changes this month too. All is well now. I tried to order some beefheart to give them some variety but the guy at the grocery store hasn't called me back yet for a few weeks so Im gonna need to find a different market.

Biggest Marlboro stayed at 4.5".
Next two biggest grew 0.25" to 4.25".
Two runts grew 0.25" to 3.75".

Biggest Golden Lollipop stayed at 4.25".
The rest of the Golden Lollipops grew 0.25" to 4.25".

Eruption Leopards are around 3.75" to 4".

Agression is up, but is only more during eating. They seem to school more together when there is no food. Maybe another month and I will have to start separating them.

[jeff12]

Another month, another update!

Biggest Marlboro grew 0.25" to 4.75", it refuses to get to 5" LOL.
Next two biggest grew 0.25" to 4.5".
Two runts: one grew 0.5" to 4.25", the other stayed at 3.75".

Biggest GL grew 0.25" to 4.5".
The rest of the lollipops stayed the same: 4.25".

Biggest Eruption Leopard grew to 4.5".
One is 4.25", the other 2 are 4".

This month I added beefheart mix to their diet. Growth seems slow length wise which I am worried about but the beefheart has made some of them fatter, especially the bigger ones. The GL are the ones that eat the mix the most because they always are the first ones to go to the top, even though I don't want them to because it has shrimp.

I am worried about the growth, some for example like the runt Marlboro grew 0.5" and are close to the bigger ones. But the other Marlboro runt is the same this month, the GL too, all of them didn't grow at all. I feed them FDBW, blackworm flakes, and beefheart mix. Do 100% water changes every day. What should I do?

http://i1104.photobucket.com/albums/h322/JeffsDiscus/DSC_0497_zpsripn21tg.jpg (http://s1104.photobucket.com/user/JeffsDiscus/media/DSC_0497_zpsripn21tg.jpg.html)
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This is the runt that won't grow.
http://i1104.photobucket.com/albums/h322/JeffsDiscus/DSC_0543_zpsnccuhdwe.jpg (http://s1104.photobucket.com/user/JeffsDiscus/media/DSC_0543_zpsnccuhdwe.jpg.html)
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[DJW]

Are you going to sell some, or set up another tank and move some over?

One way to handle the filtration in a second tank would be to cut the sponge in half, and cut a new sponge in half, then join the halves. This splits the bio with the fish so there isn't a cycle to worry about.

If you have two tanks, would you age more water and keep doing 100% WC's, or go with 50% per day on each tank?

[jeff12]

What do you guys think? I am new to this so I don't know what to after this.

[Dhavalsp]

Hi Jeff, you have a nice collection, they are growing well, but can do better, rather they would do better if you reduce your stock...or get a bigger tank(110 G) you will see the difference...

the aggression is bound to go up as they grow....and you wont be able to tackle it in 55G.

[rickztahone]

Hi Jeff, you have a nice collection, they are growing well, but can do better, rather they would do better if you reduce your stock...or get a bigger tank(110 G) you will see the difference...

the aggression is bound to go up as they grow....and you wont be able to tackle it in 55G.

agreed. You need a larger tank or sell some discus. I would go with a larger tank and possibly still get rid of some that are behind the curve already.

[Phillydubs]

Yea, I agree, I think the growth is going to slow or continue to be slow in this set up... I said from the beginning that this tank is an odd foot print and would be tough to manage...

You should add another big hydro sponge and let that seed and get another tank ready and split the group and then decide who to keep or sell or whatever you decide to do with them, but I don't think you can go much longer in that tank

[jeff12]

If I split them into two tanks, how should I split them?

[Champion Discus]

@jeff12

Great photo taking skills!!!!
Those beautiful discus will soon be itching for more breathing room.

Keep it up...

[rickztahone]

If I split them into two tanks, how should I split them?

Depends. How large is the tank you plan on splitting them up in?

[jeff12]

Depends. How large is the tank you plan on splitting them up in?

Maybe another 55.

[CrazyAngels]

If you get another 55 G tank, get a regular 4 ft long tank, that way they have room to move around. still you will need to get 3 more sponge filters and have 2 in each tank.

Best of luck

[jeff12]

Should I keep the aggressive ones all together and move the runts into one tank?

[Filip]

Should I keep the aggressive ones all together and move the runts into one tank?

I would do just that IIWY Jeff.
Keep 7-8 favorites which I plan to keep for good in the first tank and runts and least favorite 5-6 discus in another tank for additional sale or give away.

[jeff12]

Since my current 55 gallon tank foot print is weird, if I switch tanks, and got the normal long 55 gallon tank for all of them would it solve the problems? Is it the footprint, aggression, or the water changes that is the cause of the slow growth?

[Filip]

Since my current 55 gallon tank foot print is weird, if I switch tanks, and got the normal long 55 gallon tank for all of them would it solve the problems? Is it the footprint, aggression, or the water changes that is the cause of the slow growth?



Even with the best care given its normal to end up with some smaller discus or runts in every batch we raise .
So that's why I suggested you select your biggest and favorite discus in one tank and runts in another for further give away.
Leave your favorite 7- 8 discus in the new 55 g with proper footprint , and put the runts (giveaways)in the other one .

Anyway do not keep all 13 discus in only one 55g anymore , because they are already to big and for any 55 g would be overcrowded.

[jeff12]

Tank 2 is up and running. Going to transfer them over tomorrow.

If I transfer all of the ones I like into one tank, most of them are all the aggressive ones of the tank. Will they all clash? And a new aggressor of the tank will arise from the runts?

[Akili]

Tank 2 is up and running. Going to transfer them over tomorrow.

If I transfer all of the ones I like into one tank, most of them are all the aggressive ones of the tank. Will they all clash? And a new aggressor of the tank will arise from the runts?Most likely due to social behavior of cichlids, Discus being of the same family

[jeff12]

Transferred, picked and netted all the nice ones into the new tank and left the runts in the other. Waiting for all the lights and fixtures to come in to complete the tank.

[jeff12]

Update for the month!

One Eruption Leopard runt died this month because of Whirling Disease.

Main Tank:
Big Marlboro grew 0.25" to 5", first and only 5" discus.
Next two biggest grew 0.25" to 4.75".
Eruption Leopard grew 0.25" to 4.75".
Biggest GL grew 0.25" to 4.75".
Two GL grew 0.25" to 4.5".

Runt Tank:
Two GL grew 0.25" to 4.5".
Big Marlboro grew 0.25" to 4.5".
Small Marlboro grew 0.25" to 4".
One EL 4.25" other 4".

I noticed that the Eruption Leopards runts eyes are getting bigger so don't know if they will end up stunted but it seems like turqs often have bigger eyes. I do 50% water changes for each tank every day. Hoping that pairing up action starts soon so I can sell some of my stock.

[Dhavalsp]

nice, pics???

[Quintin]

Are u saying they grew quarter of an inch?

[jeff12]

Yeah, but I think growth is kind of getting too slow.

[warblad79]

Yeah, but I think growth is kind of getting too slow.

You have to be patient in order to become successful, keeping discus is not all about how fast can you grow them. Just keep up with the wc and keep them healthy, I'm pretty sure they will grow out nicely

[jeff12]

This month, I had 2 more that died in my runt tank. Both jumped out of the tank and were on the ground. I believe it is because of the whirling disease. Since there are only 4 discus left in my runt tank, I am gonna sell them and clear out that tank.

Big Marlboro is a little over 5".
Next two biggest, one grew 0.25" to 5" and one stayed the same at 4.75".
All GL stayed the same, one 4.75", two 4.5".

I think two of my Marlboros are starting to pair up. Most the time they stay in one corner of the tank and defend that side.

[MD.David]

Why change 50%?.. you could up it to 80% or even better 90% :)
You will see them start to grow even more, with over stocking, it's possible to do but you need to change 80-95% of the water.

[jeff12]

It has been a while since I updated, here we go!

I sold all my discus in my runt tank.

I only have one long 55 gallon tank left.

Big Marlboro is 5.25".
Next two biggest, one is 5.25, and one is at 5".
Eruption Leopard is 5".
GL, one is 5", 2 is 4.75".

I have only been doing 100% water changes every other day now. How much longer will it take for them to get to 6"? Growth is so slow now.

I have two that I think are pairing up but I don't know for sure. Is there any behaviors that I should look for mating conditions? My main goal by the end of this growout would be to get a pair.

[Ryan925]

It has been a while since I updated, here we go!

I sold all my discus in my runt tank.

I only have one long 55 gallon tank left.

Big Marlboro is 5.25".
Next two biggest, one is 5.25, and one is at 5".
Eruption Leopard is 5".
GL, one is 5", 2 is 4.75".

I have only been doing 100% water changes every other day now. How much longer will it take for them to get to 6"? Growth is so slow now.

I have two that I think are pairing up but I don't know for sure. Is there any behaviors that I should look for mating conditions? My main goal by the end of this growout would be to get a pair.

I have four fish that show a lot of "mating/pairing" behavior. They hang around each other a lot. Lots of "dancing." lots of fin shaking and tilting and leaning. Cleaning surfaces on the wood. Chasing other away from "their" area.

[Altum Nut]

I have only been doing 100% water changes every other day now. How much longer will it take for them to get to 6"? Growth is so slow now.

I have two that I think are pairing up but I don't know for sure. Is there any behaviors that I should look for mating conditions? My main goal by the end of this growout would be to get a pair.

Jeff...there is never any guaranty that all will reach 6". You've had this group just a little over 7 months now and got them when they were 3.5" to 4.5".
Discus do grow slower as they age but still grow until 18 months plus. Keep changing water and feeding quality high protein foods and they will get there.
Another point I would address...it is possible that when females lay eggs it will stunt further growing.

...Ralph

[Dhavalsp]

the growth does get a little slower after a 4.5 inches....

please do share some pics when possible.

thanks,

Dhaval

[Filip]

You have done a smart thing Jeff letting go of your runts , and focus only on the main tank .
They still have plenty of time to grow an inch or two more , but like Ralf said , there is no guarantee that all of them will get there .
Pairing is an obvious and distinctive behaviour and if it ocures I'm sure it would not went unnoticed.