View Full Version : Starting out with a used 220 gallon aquarium
Hey folks,
I'm just beginning my discus journey, using a 220 gallon aquarium I bought at a government surplus auction. It used to belong to a local elementary school, but it's sat in a warehouse for a couple months before being sold.
I got it all cleaned up and noticed that the silicone along the bottom of the tank in front and rear is very cloudy. The tag on the tank says it was assembled in 2003, so it's well over 10 years old. I figured I better check carefully for leaks.
Sure enough, after adding about 5 gallons of water, the rear seal is leaking.
So yesterday evening I cut out all the silicone and wiped down the seams with acetone. I reapplied GE #1 silicone to reseal it and I'm just hoping I did a good enough job. I've never tried to reseal any tank, but especially such a large one before. I should find out tonight whether it was successful or not.
Altum Nut
03-14-2016, 08:42 PM
Fingers crossed Jay.
I am hoping that you went through some literature and YouTube vids on re-sealing a tank. The main issue is to never cut or damage silicone seal between glass panes where they adheres to one another.
I wishing you a thumbs up that all went well and no need for a shop-vac.
...Ralph
rickztahone
03-14-2016, 08:46 PM
Truth be told, when resealing, it is best to actually take apart the whole pane of glass and then reseal it. Silicone does not adhere to dried silicone, and if you leave any silicone behind, that forms a weak point in your joining of the panes. Something to keep in mind.
Thanks for the input. I did watch several videos on resealing the aquarium. At first I thought I would just be able to add some silicone over the leaky spot or just reseal one seam, but the videos I watched told me the reasoning for needing to strip every seam and reapply.
I did consider separating the glass panels and starting completely from scratch, but this 220 gallon tank weights about 370 lbs empty. I don't have a helper or a convenient place to do that kind of work so I left the silicone between the panel edges alone. I was very careful not to cut into the seam itself.
I washed down each seam with acetone and then taped it off, and spread a real fat bead of silicone. Then I cut the corner a little bit on an old credit card and used that to smooth the seams. While still wet I pulled up the tape.
This evening it's looking somewhat decent but I won't know till it gets wet. It's only been 24 hours and I'm going to give it another 24 before doing any leak checks.
This is a reef ready tank with dual overflows. If it holds water I am going to utilize a sump and a wet\dry filter. I plan to paint the outside of the bottom of the tank a sandy tan color and go with a bare bottom tank with just a few highly decorative pieces of wood.
My pump just arrived in the mail today, so I am planning on filling the sump tonight and pumping it back through the filter in a loop and then I'll start dosing with ammonia and nitrite to get my cycle started.
rickztahone
03-14-2016, 10:53 PM
give it more than just two days of curing, especially if you laid down a fat bead of silicone. It isn't a sprint, it is a marathon, pace yourself and you will be happy you did. Now, if you had discus in bins waiting to be put back in the tank, then I would probably advise you to put them in earlier than later, but as it stands, you got time on your hands, and it isn't the weekend yet ;)
give it more than just two days of curing, especially if you laid down a fat bead of silicone. It isn't a sprint, it is a marathon, pace yourself and you will be happy you did. Now, if you had discus in bins waiting to be put back in the tank, then I would probably advise you to put them in earlier than later, but as it stands, you got time on your hands, and it isn't the weekend yet ;)
I did lay down a fat bead but it smoothed out pretty well using the credit card. Still, you're right, I should give it until the weekend at least. Patience is not my strong suit.
rickztahone
03-14-2016, 11:26 PM
nor mine, haha, but being in the hobby for so many years has taught me that patience actually saves me money, lol.
Ok, I finally got everything installed and running. Here are some photos:
95798
95799
95800
As you can see my tap water started out really cold and needs to heat up.
95801
rickztahone
03-17-2016, 06:12 PM
Was this the tank with the leak?
Bill63SG
03-17-2016, 07:15 PM
Just saw this thread,without the tube in front of me,does GE#1 have an anti-bacterial in it? I belive this can be poisonous some bathroom sealents have this.Cant remember if it was GE#1 or GE#2.
Was this the tank with the leak?
Yep, and I'm sure you can see my very non-professional caulking job in the picture. But, it holds water and that's what matters.
Just saw this thread,without the tube in front of me,does GE#1 have an anti-bacterial in it? I belive this can be poisonous some bathroom sealents have this.Cant remember if it was GE#1 or GE#2.
When I picked it up from Lowes there were two different GE silicone products on the shelf side by side. I went with the one that did NOT say Mold-Free. The #2 has the mold inhibiting agent whereas the #1 that I bought did not.
Akili
03-17-2016, 08:29 PM
Yep, and I'm sure you can see my very non-professional caulking job in the picture. But, it holds water and that's what matters.Next use masking tape on both sides of the area you going to silicone in a straight line and when you have finished smoothing the silicone, pull the tape off. You will have a clean line.
Bill63SG
03-18-2016, 11:32 AM
When I picked it up from Lowes there were two different GE silicone products on the shelf side by side. I went with the one that did NOT say Mold-Free. The #2 has the mold inhibiting agent whereas the #1 that I bought did not.
Should be good then
pitdogg2
03-18-2016, 11:57 AM
Truth be told, when resealing, it is best to actually take apart the whole pane of glass and then reseal it. Silicone does not adhere to dried silicone, and if you leave any silicone behind, that forms a weak point in your joining of the panes. Something to keep in mind.
I know you mean well Ricardo but i have resealed many tanks and ALWAYS followed Altum Nut's advice even before I knew better. I have always cut to the glass side and never disturbed the silicone between the glass panes. My first is going on 30yrs now with never any leaks all silicone is still well sealed.
Jayy like Ricardo said take it slow my friend give it a good week to seal then fill with water and let sit a week somewhere where any leaks no matter how small will be noticed. I use my garage floor that way I still can see under it to see if there is any damp or wet spots...Anything that large you only really want to do once and if you get in a hurry you'll regret it 220 gallons of water makes a big mess.
yep #1 is the correct one
edit i see you already fulled good luck
edit i see you already fulled good luck
Yep I had a day off yesterday so I went ahead and filled. It had a solid 4 days of drying time and after a day of sitting and heating the water it's looking good. I'll keep an eye on it longer of course. I am going to start the cycle with Seachem Stability today. It'll be some time yet before I add any livestock.
pitdogg2
03-18-2016, 01:31 PM
I am going to start the cycle with Seachem Stability today. .
I have had much better luck with the Marineland Bio start or Dr. Tim's. Since Dr. Tim invented the stuff for Marineland and holds the patent I always used it. I tried others and have had not so good luck. Let us know how well it worked for you. If you're starting this before the livestock arrives be sure to feed it something or it may die off before the livestock is in the tank.
I have had much better luck with the Marineland Bio start or Dr. Tim's. Since Dr. Tim invented the stuff for Marineland and holds the patent I always used it. I tried others and have had not so good luck. Let us know how well it worked for you. If you're starting this before the livestock arrives be sure to feed it something or it may die off before the livestock is in the tank.
According to Seachem, if I use stability every day for 7 days, I can add livestock at any time. I tend to suspect this may not be completely accurate haha. But I am going to put them to the test and pick up 10 or so black line tetra fish and add them later today. I'll monitor my water closely and if there is any spike I'll use Prime to treat it. Worst case, I'll remove the fish to a bucket of treated tap water while I get it sorted out.
I added a 3rd heater, all three of them governed by a temp controller. I just hit the 70 degree mark. I'll add the tetras at 72 (after acclimating them) and let the heaters gently take it up to 82 degrees.
Ten tetras won't produce nearly enough ammonia to prepare the biofilter for the addition of a group of discus. I would use ammonia dosing and complete a good cycle at 1-2 ppm ammonia.... not to mention QT issues.
Ten tetras won't produce nearly enough ammonia to prepare the biofilter for the addition of a group of discus. I would use ammonia dosing and complete a good cycle at 1-2 ppm ammonia.
Only problem with that is I won't be buying the discus for a couple weeks still. I plan to add the tetras and if\when everything is stable, add additional community fish a few at a time. Cardinal tetras, bushynose plecos, some rams etc. I want a couple of shoals of different smaller fish in addition to discus. When everything is stable I had planned to add 6 discus in the 3" range. I'd perform water changes and add Prime or Safe to mitigate any ammonia spike from the additional bio load.
I know that discus prefer a shoal of 6 or more which is why I planned to add 6 at once. But my tank will accommodate more than that, I'd eventually like to have 12, 15 or so in the 220 gallon. If I start with a group of 6 can I add more discus, one or two at a time? If I tried that with chickens the established chickens would peck the newcomers to death.
dragon1974
03-18-2016, 03:32 PM
I'll add the tetras at 72 (after acclimating them) and let the heaters gently take it up to 82 degrees.
I+ 1 on the DJW post, I wouldn't do the tetras. Just keep using the Stability and you'll be fine. I've used it on a 75 gal and after a couple weeks I was adding discus. Just to keep the tank as clean I can without adding anything to have any QT issues.
dragon1974
03-18-2016, 03:36 PM
Only problem with that is I won't be buying the discus for a couple weeks still. I plan to add the tetras and if\when everything is stable, add additional community fish a few at a time. Cardinal tetras, bushynose plecos, some rams etc. I want a couple of shoals of different smaller fish in addition to discus. When everything is stable I had planned to add 6 discus in the 3" range. I'd perform water changes and add Prime or Safe to mitigate any ammonia spike from the additional bio load.
I know that discus prefer a shoal of 6 or more which is why I planned to add 6 at once. But my tank will accommodate more than that, I'd eventually like to have 12, 15 or so in the 220 gallon. If I start with a group of 6 can I add more discus, one or two at a time? If I tried that with chickens the established chickens would peck the newcomers to death.
Just make sure when you're adding new fish *QT* everything LOL. Don't do all this work and have to take care of some issue that you could have avoided. I think the tank is big enough for the newbie to run but if you can add them from the same batch like 8 it will be fine. I have 8 sub adults in a 75 gal but I clean every 2nd or 3rd day
pitdogg2
03-18-2016, 04:35 PM
Add Discus then 2mo later AFTER quarantine of Discus in the large tank you should set up smaller 20-30gal tank to quarantine new tetras or other fish to be added. Would also help if you had a "stunt" (as in daredevil) discus to newer fish to make sure the big tank don't crash due to new Tetras or other fish if Discus is fine after a few weeks then move on.
without this you are taking a big chance.
Add Discus then 2mo later AFTER quarantine of Discus in the large tank you should set up smaller 20-30gal tank to quarantine new tetras or other fish to be added. Would also help if you had a "stunt" (as in daredevil) discus to newer fish to make sure the big tank don't crash due to new Tetras or other fish if Discus is fine after a few weeks then move on.
without this you are taking a big chance.
Ok, so the suggestion then is to start with the discus and to add any other fish only after quarantine? Would it not also be possible to start with other fish and then only add discus after quarantine?
Bill63SG
03-18-2016, 05:21 PM
Ive done that.I kept a 75 gallon to quarantine tetras and plecos.But don't let $50 worth of fish kill off $500-$1000 worth of discus.
Ive done that.I kept a 75 gallon to quarantine tetras and plecos.But don't let $50 worth of fish kill off $500-$1000 worth of discus.
Understood, and I understand the need for quarantine. I'm just not sure why it would matter if the discus go into quarantine or if the other fish do.
I figured I would build up the tank with all the community fish first to well establish the cycle and then when I know the tank is healthy I will order discus and put them into a quarantine tank. After some time, I will add one of the discus to the community tank and see if any issues arise. After some more time if all is healthy I will add the remaining discus. That way I am risking only one discus. Does that make sense? If there are major issues with my plan please let me know, I'm open to all feedback.
Akili
03-18-2016, 05:53 PM
Cycle the tank with ammonia add all the Discus you want have first. Setup the quarantine and do your additions at a later date.Do it like many others have indicated. You will not regret it.Minimum six weeks of quarantine is well worth it.
MickO'S
03-20-2016, 03:34 PM
Starting a new discus aquarium this year, following to see how you get on
nofearengineer
03-21-2016, 01:42 AM
Here is my suggestion. Though I have not kept discus yet, my method for building a biolfilter up for suddenly increasing bioload in a big tank would be as follows. Have your community fish (after 5 weeks QT obviously) in your 220. When you get your discus in, QT them for the same. I am assuming you will have sponge filters or some sort of biolfilter in the QT tanks. Just add that to your sump when you add the discus to your 220. You can gradually remove the extra biofilters over a few weeks and put them back in your QT tanks.
pitdogg2
03-21-2016, 11:03 AM
Here is my suggestion. Though I have not kept discus yet, my method for building a biolfilter up for suddenly increasing bioload in a big tank would be as follows. Have your community fish (after 5 weeks QT obviously) in your 220. When you get your discus in, QT them for the same. I am assuming you will have sponge filters or some sort of biolfilter in the QT tanks. Just add that to your sump when you add the discus to your 220. You can gradually remove the extra biofilters over a few weeks and put them back in your QT tanks.
This would negate any quarantine that you would of done to take the bio from QT and put into the main tank.
If I'm reading this correctly
If it was me I would use Dr. Tims one and only
http://www.drtimsaquatics.com/treat-aquarium-nitrite-ammonia-levels
pitdogg2
03-21-2016, 11:18 AM
As a side note I just seen this
http://irongripadhesive.com/?utm_source=TheTradeDesk&utm_medium=HighImpact&utm_content=300x600&utm_campaign=IronGrip
So I called the GE tech support number to see if it could be used on aquariums and was told they no longer recommend any of their line of silicone for aquariums and have actually now put a disclaimer on all new tubes of their silicone. I told the tech that I have used it for going on 20yrs with no problem. He then went on to tell me that an RTV product through Grainger and actually used the word DAP to point me to the right silicone to use.
Guess we now need to use the 13$ a tube silicone made specifically for aquariums these three below he specifically pointed me to....
http://www.americansealantsinc.com/asi-aquarium-sealant/
http://www.amazon.com/Aqueon-100165010-Silicone-Clear-10-3oz/dp/B0002ASD34
http://www.homedepot.com/p/DAP-2-8-oz-Silicone-Aquarium-Sealant-00688/100128841
just an FYI
He wouldn't say why the change just that they can no longer recommend their products for this use.
nofearengineer
03-21-2016, 01:20 PM
You're already moving the fish into the display tank. QT is over at that point.
As a side note I just seen this
http://irongripadhesive.com/?utm_source=TheTradeDesk&utm_medium=HighImpact&utm_content=300x600&utm_campaign=IronGrip
So I called the GE tech support number to see if it could be used on aquariums and was told they no longer recommend any of their line of silicone for aquariums and have actually now put a disclaimer on all new tubes of their silicone. I told the tech that I have used it for going on 20yrs with no problem. He then went on to tell me that an RTV product through Grainger and actually used the word DAP to point me to the right silicone to use.
Guess we now need to use the 13$ a tube silicone made specifically for aquariums these three below he specifically pointed me to....
http://www.americansealantsinc.com/asi-aquarium-sealant/
http://www.amazon.com/Aqueon-100165010-Silicone-Clear-10-3oz/dp/B0002ASD34
http://www.homedepot.com/p/DAP-2-8-oz-Silicone-Aquarium-Sealant-00688/100128841
just an FYI
He wouldn't say why the change just that they can no longer recommend their products for this use.
I just checked the bottles of GE #1 and there is no mention of aquarium use on them at all, either good or bad. Maybe it's only the newest bottles... Well, that ship has sailed in my case. Good info for the future though.
You're already moving the fish into the display tank. QT is over at that point.
I'm not sure what you mean by this. Can you clarify?
pitdogg2
03-21-2016, 04:20 PM
I just checked the bottles of GE #1 and there is no mention of aquarium use on them at all, either good or bad. Maybe it's only the newest bottles... Well, that ship has sailed in my case. Good info for the future though.
well they also used to say Food grade(contact) or something like that and aquarium safe somewhere on the tube.
dragon1974
03-21-2016, 04:39 PM
well they also used to say Food grade(contact) or something like that and aquarium safe somewhere on the tube.
That was removed a while now
pitdogg2
03-21-2016, 05:08 PM
well they also used to say Food grade(contact) or something like that and aquarium safe somewhere on the tube.
That was removed a while now
Makes one wonder why it was removed and IF they changed the formula of the silicone.
Makes one wonder why it was removed and IF they changed the formula of the silicone.
To me it sounds like standard attempt to avoid any liability. But who knows.
dragon1974
03-21-2016, 08:54 PM
Makes one wonder why it was removed and IF they changed the formula of the silicone.
Think I was on another forum many moons ago asking the same questions and one of the mods were talking about the liability angle also. I think they didn't want to get the cleaning bill if anyone's tanks goes boom or anything. But for peace of mind I would just use what was posted as alternatives. TBH, anything pure silicone should work, I've used the HD stuff with no ill effect on a 125 gal. But I was just making it look good and I didn't have any leaks. For something like this 220 gal I would have tried to see if the makers would have come out to fix the side that leaked. I think miracles have this service but don't quote me on that. I had a 220 that I was looking to clean up and didn't want to do the work. It would have definitely costed more but I would have rathered not hearing my wife cherp my ears off about 220 gals of water in the basement. In the end its up to how much you want to pay.
rickztahone
03-21-2016, 09:07 PM
As a side note I just seen this
http://irongripadhesive.com/?utm_source=TheTradeDesk&utm_medium=HighImpact&utm_content=300x600&utm_campaign=IronGrip
So I called the GE tech support number to see if it could be used on aquariums and was told they no longer recommend any of their line of silicone for aquariums and have actually now put a disclaimer on all new tubes of their silicone. I told the tech that I have used it for going on 20yrs with no problem. He then went on to tell me that an RTV product through Grainger and actually used the word DAP to point me to the right silicone to use.
Guess we now need to use the 13$ a tube silicone made specifically for aquariums these three below he specifically pointed me to....
http://www.americansealantsinc.com/asi-aquarium-sealant/
http://www.amazon.com/Aqueon-100165010-Silicone-Clear-10-3oz/dp/B0002ASD34
http://www.homedepot.com/p/DAP-2-8-oz-Silicone-Aquarium-Sealant-00688/100128841
just an FYI
He wouldn't say why the change just that they can no longer recommend their products for this use.
$13? You can almost buy 3 of these with that money :)
http://www.bestmaterials.com/detail.aspx?ID=19108&gclid=CLe5jIWXycsCFQWUfgodNXUC8A
And that is MEANT for an aquarium
Akili
03-21-2016, 09:39 PM
That was removed a while nowFor Canadians the best one to use is Multi-purpose Clear Silicone II Sealant from Home Hardware.It says on the package Safe to use on aquariums https://www.homehardware.ca/en/rec/index.htm/Paint-D%C3%A9cor/Maintenance/Caulk-Coatings-Seals/Caulking/Silicone/3-Pack-300mL-Multi-purpose-Clear-Silicone-II-Sealant/_/N-2pqfZ67l/Ne-67n/No-72/Ntk-All_EN/R-I2034444?Ntt=Silicone&Num=0
nofearengineer
03-22-2016, 03:33 AM
I'm not sure what you mean by this. Can you clarify?
If you're taking the discus out of QT and putting them into the display tank, why not take the QT tank biofilter and take it with them? It's obviously been providing enough filtration for the discus. It isn't as if the biofilter is going to transfer something to the display thank that the discus wouldn't.
pitdogg2
03-22-2016, 09:17 AM
$13? You can almost buy 3 of these with that money :)
http://www.bestmaterials.com/detail.aspx?ID=19108&gclid=CLe5jIWXycsCFQWUfgodNXUC8A
And that is MEANT for an aquarium
I was referring to this one and yes I know you can find it cheaper. I for the most part was taken back by the GE tech who had no shame in telling me i was full of poo poo cocka. I know darn well for years I bought the GE 100% silicone and know for a fact it said what it said.
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