View Full Version : Drip system instead of daily water changes?
Hey folks,
I'm planning on building a DIY drip system for my 220 gallon tank and I wanted to hear some experience on this and whether it's effective or not. My aim is to simplify and more or less automate daily water changes.
I built a charcoal filter out of a 8" long 1.5" wide piece of PVC pipe. It's got a screw on cap on top. In the bottom I drilled the pipe and inserted airline tubing, sealed in with silicone. Water enters the filter at the bottom and the pipe slowly fills up with water, steeping the water in the activated carbon. At the very top I drilled several small holes in the pipe where the water passes out and into my sump.
I can adjust the flow of water with a valve, and I'd be aiming for about 25 gallons per day. After the water leaves the carbon filter, it flows past my heaters and is pumped up into the main tank.
Since I am adding 25 gallons a day I also have to remove 25 gallons a day. I have a DIY overflow that removes this water and dumps it down the drain.
So, the question is, would I be able to reduce the amount of water changes I have to do manually if I am constantly dripping a gallon an hour or so out of the tank? I know I can't eliminate water changes completely. I know I'll need to change or rinse my mechanical media daily, and siphon any detritus that builds up on the bare bottom tank often.
Akili
03-15-2016, 05:08 PM
Use Water Change Rate Calculator maybe it will give you ideas what to do http://www.angelfish.net/DripSystemcalc.php
Use Water Change Rate Calculator maybe it will give you ideas what to do http://www.angelfish.net/DripSystemcalc.php
Ok so using that calculator it looks like dripping one gallon per hour would only be a 10% water change daily. I am going to want to increase this for Discus, right?
I have a 220 gallon aquarium, and I plan to lightly stock it. I am hoping I won't need to change 50% daily, that would be 3,300 gallons a month going down the drain.
I think what I will do is start with a 20% turnover daily and then if my nitrates are climbing or higher than I like I will increase the drip rate.
John_Nicholson
03-15-2016, 05:31 PM
Drip systems are highly inefficient. You will have your best luck starting with adults. The chances of growing out quality discus fro juveniles is extremely low. Your approach will simply not keep your water near clean enough.
-john
warblad79
03-15-2016, 06:23 PM
I am hoping I won't need to change 50% daily, that would be 3,300 gallons a month going down the drain.
I think that's the trade off for having a nice fish, lots of water change. I do a lot of water change daily and also I'm well aware of the drought here in California but keep in mind 70% of earth surface are made out of bodies of water so its unlikely will run out. For me draining it only means shifting the water to different places. So all I need to worry about is my bill.
discuspaul
03-15-2016, 06:32 PM
Drip systems are highly inefficient. You will have your best luck starting with adults. The chances of growing out quality discus fro juveniles is extremely low. Your approach will simply not keep your water near clean enough.
-john
I fully agree.
And the drip system doesn't deal with vacuuming the wastes from either a bare-bottom, or substrate if one is used - like many discus-keepers do with each wc. So as John said, that approach will not keep your tank water clean enough.
Drip systems are highly inefficient. You will have your best luck starting with adults. The chances of growing out quality discus fro juveniles is extremely low. Your approach will simply not keep your water near clean enough.
-john
I'm wondering what makes it so inefficient? Obviously dripping 2 gallons an hour is not removing as much dirty water as removing 2 gallons all at once with a bucket, I understand that. But based on my previous experience (not with discus, but with water quality) I should be able to reduce by half how often I have to do manual water changes. And that's my purpose. not to eliminate the need but to reduce it.
rickztahone
03-15-2016, 06:48 PM
I'm wondering what makes it so inefficient? Obviously dripping 2 gallons an hour is not removing as much dirty water as removing 2 gallons all at once with a bucket, I understand that. But based on my previous experience (not with discus, but with water quality) I should be able to reduce by half how often I have to do manual water changes. And that's my purpose. not to eliminate the need but to reduce it.
There are a few members here that are implementing this type of system. Both Afriend and Happyface come to mind. Check out their activity and you can see some of their set ups. Afriend has a lot of stickies in the water works section FYI
There are a few members here that are implementing this type of system. Both Afriend and Happyface come to mind. Check out their activity and you can see some of their set ups. Afriend has a lot of stickies in the water works section FYI
Thank you, it'll be good to see what others are doing and hopefully learn from their setups instead of making my own mistakes.
Fishquake
03-16-2016, 08:59 AM
I use a drip system, if you can call it that, water exits at 5 gph for each tank, so technically its not really a drip, more like a "flow through". I still vacuum the tanks daily, though, and then replenish the water that was removed from vacuuming. All in all I move a lot of water. The automated part is that as the water is removed it flows back in from the storage containers.
afriend
03-16-2016, 08:39 PM
I'm wondering what makes it so inefficient? Obviously dripping 2 gallons an hour is not removing as much dirty water as removing 2 gallons all at once with a bucket, I understand that. But based on my previous experience (not with discus, but with water quality) I should be able to reduce by half how often I have to do manual water changes. And that's my purpose. not to eliminate the need but to reduce it.
Both systems improve water quality by diluting the water. The drain and fill method is more efficient, while the drip method is easier. For daily water changes less than 50%, the inefficiency is not too bad. You can determine what the efficiency difference is by using the calculator given above. For example to compare how much more water is necessary for the drip system you propose:
220g tank, 25 gpd drip will replace 10.74% of the 220g tank water each day. (220 x .1074 = 23.63g)
Thus (25g - 23.63g = 1.37g) is the additional water used each day to achieve the same amount of dilution.
Example #2 for the same tank which achieves a 50% daily change:
220g tank, 153 gpd drip will replace 50.12% of the 220g tank water each day. (220 x .5012 = 110.26g)
Thus (153 - 110 = 43g) is the additional water used each day to achieve the same amount of dilution.
It is important to note that both methods need to include removing feces and uneaten food from the tank bottom and that other tank maintenance such as cleaning the tank walls and bottom, along with filter cleaning should be done.
If you are a DIY type of guy, you might consider setting up a combination filtration and drip system like the one described in the link below:
http://forum.simplydiscus.com/forumdisplay.php?372-Adult-Discus-Show-Tank-(afriend)-NW-Arkansas
With this system, the only tank maintenance I have to do is once a month, and the tank stays pristine clean.
Paul
Dave-UK
03-18-2016, 12:28 PM
Does anyone consider environmental sustainability when it comes keeping discus? :p
Does anyone consider environmental sustainability when it comes keeping discus? :p
My concern isn't so much the environment, but the potential impact to my water and heating bill haha. I also have a pool that uses a ton of water and energy. I guess I should just consider it part of the cost of raising discus.
Has anyone setup a small on demand water heater to use when adding water back to the tank? I know lots of folks keep a reservoir of water that is pre-heated for water changes, but the only method I would have to keep this water heated is to use a regular submersion aquarium heater which is pretty inefficient. And takes up space, requires a separate pump to fill the tank etc. What I had in mind is running the on demand hot water heater output line through a charcoal and particulate filter (like those used for RV's) and then into the tank directly. I'd have to do some tests, especially to ensure the filter is able to remove chlorine completely.
If you are a DIY type of guy, you might consider setting up a combination filtration and drip system like the one described in the link below:
http://forum.simplydiscus.com/forumdisplay.php?372-Adult-Discus-Show-Tank-(afriend)-NW-Arkansas
With this system, the only tank maintenance I have to do is once a month, and the tank stays pristine clean.
Paul
Thanks Paul I'll have to check that out when I have a bit more time.
I took a look at your thread Paul and wow you did a great job. I like your system quite a bit. I do happen to have a RODI unit on hand, it's in storage since I took down my saltwater tank. It's only rated for 50 GPD but if I used a mix of RODI water and tap water I could make that work.
What I'm actually thinking of doing is forgoing the drip system, or any kind of slow transfer of water system, and instead just automating the water change process so it's just a matter of turning a few valves and flipping a pump switch.
Here's my initial idea -
- Purchase a tankless water heater. Either a small one just for the aquarium or a big unit for the whole house (this may give me the excuse I need to upgrade, I've been considering it for a while). This will give me an unlimited supply of water at the right temp.
- Setup my RODI system to fill up a 55 gallon drum roughly halfway full. Use float valve to shut off the flow when the desired fill level is reached. I'll use pure hot water from the tankless heater to fill up the rest of the drum slowly. Once I reach the desired temp I will shutoff the hot water flow. I can probably automate this mix and shutoff procedure with a temp controller and a valve of some kind.
- The hot water coming from the heater will pass through a charcoal filter to remove chlorine etc. Or maybe I can setup a filter on the incoming water before it goes into the heater, prolong the life of the heater itself.
- Turn on a pump to pump the mixed water into my sump at about 10 gallons a minute rate. This can be adjusted if I find a faster rate of flow works as well. I'll want the new water to be deposited right on top of the pump in my sump so it goes directly up into the display tank.
- at the other end of my sump, where water from the display tank first enters the sump, have an overflow or bulkhead drilled into the side of the sump to regulate the fill level. When I'm pumping in water, the level in the sump will rise and water will flow out and down a drain.
Benefits to this system are that I won't have to waste extra water due to the inefficiency of a slow drip or slow flow system. And once it's setup it should be an almost completely automatic system. Every 2nd or 3rd day I'd just need to turn on a hot water flow valve, wait for the tank to fill and reach the desired temp, then flick a switch to pump it up to my tank.
afriend
03-18-2016, 08:03 PM
I took a look at your thread Paul and wow you did a great job. I like your system quite a bit. I do happen to have a RODI unit on hand, it's in storage since I took down my saltwater tank. It's only rated for 50 GPD but if I used a mix of RODI water and tap water I could make that work.
What I'm actually thinking of doing is forgoing the drip system, or any kind of slow transfer of water system, and instead just automating the water change process so it's just a matter of turning a few valves and flipping a pump switch.
Here's my initial idea -
- Purchase a tankless water heater. Either a small one just for the aquarium or a big unit for the whole house (this may give me the excuse I need to upgrade, I've been considering it for a while). This will give me an unlimited supply of water at the right temp.
- Setup my RODI system to fill up a 55 gallon drum roughly halfway full. Use float valve to shut off the flow when the desired fill level is reached. I'll use pure hot water from the tankless heater to fill up the rest of the drum slowly. Once I reach the desired temp I will shutoff the hot water flow. I can probably automate this mix and shutoff procedure with a temp controller and a valve of some kind.
- The hot water coming from the heater will pass through a charcoal filter to remove chlorine etc. Or maybe I can setup a filter on the incoming water before it goes into the heater, prolong the life of the heater itself.
- Turn on a pump to pump the mixed water into my sump at about 10 gallons a minute rate. This can be adjusted if I find a faster rate of flow works as well. I'll want the new water to be deposited right on top of the pump in my sump so it goes directly up into the display tank.
- at the other end of my sump, where water from the display tank first enters the sump, have an overflow or bulkhead drilled into the side of the sump to regulate the fill level. When I'm pumping in water, the level in the sump will rise and water will flow out and down a drain.
Benefits to this system are that I won't have to waste extra water due to the inefficiency of a slow drip or slow flow system. And once it's setup it should be an almost completely automatic system. Every 2nd or 3rd day I'd just need to turn on a hot water flow valve, wait for the tank to fill and reach the desired temp, then flick a switch to pump it up to my tank.
Jayy,
Let us know how this turns out after you get it running.
Paul
Jayy,
Let us know how this turns out after you get it running.
Paul
I've reconsidered my plan slightly. One of my aims here is to eliminate as much daily work as possible. I've found something that I think will work well:
Today I ordered an adjustable temperature regulating valve. If it's accurate enough and holds the temp steady, I should be able to use it to automatically mix hot and cold water to the correct temp. Basically hot water line goes in one side and cold in the other. An adjustable thermostat in the valve adjusts the hot and cold water flow until the mix reaches the desired temp, then it flows out.
I checked, and the membrane of my RO system will handle water up to 112 degrees. So I can push 82-86 degree water through it no problem. I can install the regulating valve to mix water to 86 degrees, and then this output would go through my RO system and right into the aquarium. As the aquarium fills, it overflows to the sump and the level in the sump rises. An overflow would remove water from the sump and down the drain (or into my garden maybe?).
It's not as quick of a water change as I originally planned, in fact it will trickle about 50 GPD into the tank over 24 hours. But I won't have to do anything manual to initiate the water change. I will just need to vacuum the bare bottom a couple times a week and then I can even let the RODI system refil the water lost during the vacuuming.
If I find that this slower water addition is not very effective, then I can pump the output from the RODI system into a holding tank with a heater to maintain the temp, and then using a timer I can turn on a pump once a day to pump all this water into the sump over a much shorter time frame.
I am still considering how I can build some safety into the system. At the very least I will want to have a way to detect if my sump is too full and is about to spill (due to a plugged or stopped overflow for example) and then shut off the flow from the RODI unit. I can probably use an electric float switch system to trigger a relay which in turn shuts a sprinkler control valve to shutoff the flow.
As I put together the parts etc. for this I will take photos and maybe some videos along the way.
rickztahone
03-21-2016, 09:21 PM
I've reconsidered my plan slightly. One of my aims here is to eliminate as much daily work as possible. I've found something that I think will work well:
Today I ordered an adjustable temperature regulating valve. If it's accurate enough and holds the temp steady, I should be able to use it to automatically mix hot and cold water to the correct temp. Basically hot water line goes in one side and cold in the other. An adjustable thermostat in the valve adjusts the hot and cold water flow until the mix reaches the desired temp, then it flows out.
I checked, and the membrane of my RO system will handle water up to 112 degrees. So I can push 82-86 degree water through it no problem. I can install the regulating valve to mix water to 86 degrees, and then this output would go through my RO system and right into the aquarium. As the aquarium fills, it overflows to the sump and the level in the sump rises. An overflow would remove water from the sump and down the drain (or into my garden maybe?).
It's not as quick of a water change as I originally planned, in fact it will trickle about 50 GPD into the tank over 24 hours. But I won't have to do anything manual to initiate the water change. I will just need to vacuum the bare bottom a couple times a week and then I can even let the RODI system refil the water lost during the vacuuming.
If I find that this slower water addition is not very effective, then I can pump the output from the RODI system into a holding tank with a heater to maintain the temp, and then using a timer I can turn on a pump once a day to pump all this water into the sump over a much shorter time frame.
I am still considering how I can build some safety into the system. At the very least I will want to have a way to detect if my sump is too full and is about to spill (due to a plugged or stopped overflow for example) and then shut off the flow from the RODI unit. I can probably use an electric float switch system to trigger a relay which in turn shuts a sprinkler control valve to shutoff the flow.
As I put together the parts etc. for this I will take photos and maybe some videos along the way.
look at auto top of sensors
tunerhead24
03-22-2016, 06:24 AM
Hey I came across this video check it out
http://youtu.be/LimJJasPUlo
But I do agree with John and Paul, you can't grow out juvenile discus with a drip system.
Hey I came across this video check it out
http://youtu.be/LimJJasPUlo
But I do agree with John and Paul, you can't grow out juvenile discus with a drip system.
That's where I got my original idea for the drip system from. Joey (the guy in the video) is a forum member. It was actually his videos on Discus that led me to this forum in the first place.
So, if I am using RO water exclusively, I assume I need to add back in some kind of minerals. Is there a product I can buy, and just add a measured dose to the tank at or around feeding time?
rickztahone
03-23-2016, 08:00 PM
That's where I got my original idea for the drip system from. Joey (the guy in the video) is a forum member. It was actually his videos on Discus that led me to this forum in the first place.
So, if I am using RO water exclusively, I assume I need to add back in some kind of minerals. Is there a product I can buy, and just add a measured dose to the tank at or around feeding time?
Why bother with remineralizing? Simply mix with tap and you will be fine.
discuspaul
03-23-2016, 08:19 PM
Why bother with remineralizing? Simply mix with tap and you will be fine.
Sounds simple, huh ? - But very true.
It works.
Why bother with remineralizing? Simply mix with tap and you will be fine.
Well it's a trade off I guess. I had originally designed that my hot and cold water would enter the auto mixing valve, exit the valve, go through the RO filter and into the tank. The RO would remove chlorine etc. No need for a separate ageing tank air pump and water pump to pump it into the tank. That would have meant I am adding only RO filtered water to the tank with no mixing.
I could have my hot water go to the mixing valve, and my cold water go first through the RO system and then to the mixing valve. That would give me a blend of RO filtered water and tap water. But I'd need it to go into a ageing tank and I'd need to treat it for chlorine before I could pump it into the tank. I'd rather avoid the need to setup an ageing tank and all the float switches etc that would be required to ensure it doesn't overflow etc.
It would also be a more manual process since I'd have to add Safe and then wait around while it mixed and takes effect then come back to it later and pump it into the tank.
I suppose I could setup a charcoal filter alone to filter the hot water. This would remove chlorine and if my facts are straight reduce the KH slightly without stripping out all minerals. But I do think it would be simpler, easier to just dose the water with minerals.
By the way, I ordered the RO Buddy 100 GPD setup from Amazon to replace my older coralife 50 GPD system. So I'll be replacing almost half the water in my tank daily with this method.
Ok another question regarding discus minerals. I see a lot of people are adding once a day vitamins to their homemade discus food. Would these vitamins add enough trace minerals to the water to replace what is lost to RO filtration?
I haven't had a chance yet to test the RO water and see what my TDS reads. I have a TDS meter but I haven't used it since my saltwater days and I can't locate it just now.
I have never tried a dosing pump for minerals, but its a method worth considering for a continuous RO drip. You have a container of RO waste water that supplies water at a rate of say 1/4th of the rate from the RO. That way you would have 80% RO and 20% waste going into the tank. You could make adjustments to get the TDS you want.
The vitamins are a nutritional thing. The minerals in the water are taken up mostly by the gills.
I notice you mention a few times about using a charcoal filter to remove chlorine from the water coming from your hot water supply, but that shouldn't be necessary because once the water has been heated that much the chlorine will have dissipated anyway. It certainly won't do harm to add one, but it's just adding more cost, complexity and maintenance you can avoid.
I have never tried a dosing pump for minerals, but its a method worth considering for a continuous RO drip. You have a container of RO waste water that supplies water at a rate of say 1/4th of the rate from the RO. That way you would have 80% RO and 20% waste going into the tank. You could make adjustments to get the TDS you want.
The vitamins are a nutritional thing. The minerals in the water are taken up mostly by the gills.
You know that's a very smart idea. By the time the waste water from the RO system is generated it's already gone through the sediment and charcoal block filter so it's dechlorinated. All I'd have to do is run the waste water through a reservoir of some kind and use a TOM aqualifter pump or something similar to pump some of it back into the tank. I'd get the minerals the fish want, plus a faster flow rate to change more water out. I could probably raise the effective daily water change rate to 100 gallons per day or 50% with this method. Fantastic idea.
I notice you mention a few times about using a charcoal filter to remove chlorine from the water coming from your hot water supply, but that shouldn't be necessary because once the water has been heated that much the chlorine will have dissipated anyway. It certainly won't do harm to add one, but it's just adding more cost, complexity and maintenance you can avoid.
That's great to know, I wasn't aware that heating water caused chlorine to evap more quickly. It makes sense now that I think of it. Would this also get rid of chloramines? Not sure if my city water has chloramines, I still need to give them a call and ask how they treat the water. I keep forgetting.
I can't honestly say, but I suspect no since the ammonia is added to the chlorine to make it more stable. I'm lucky and my water supply only has chlorine. I'd strongly advise you to find out which you are dealing with personally though.
I can't honestly say, but I suspect no since the ammonia is added to the chlorine to make it more stable. I'm lucky and my water supply only has chlorine. I'd strongly advise you to find out which you are dealing with personally though.
Yeah I definitely need to find out. Currently every thing that goes into the tank is either RO filtered or treated with Prime, so I feel it's safe, but I want to know what I'm dealing with.
There are a couple other discus owners here in Clinton, UT where I live that I can talk with as well.
Can you test for chloramine on your own? If you put some tap water in a bucket and dose it with Prime (2 drops per gallon) then test for ammonia, the ammonia should be separated from the chlorine and still show up in the test.
Can you test for chloramine on your own? If you put some tap water in a bucket and dose it with Prime (2 drops per gallon) then test for ammonia, the ammonia should be separated from the chlorine and still show up in the test.
I'll have to give that a try.
Darrell Ward
03-26-2016, 01:29 PM
I agree with John and Paul, drip is a waste of time. Been there, done that years ago. It doesn't work because you are mixing dirty water with clean water in small amounts, as opposed to wholesale water changes. Figure out how to flush 100% daily, and you'll be on to something!
Been there, done that myself. Went through a phase where I was more interested in equipment than in fish.
I agree with John and Paul, drip is a waste of time. Been there, done that years ago. It doesn't work because you are mixing dirty water with clean water in small amounts, as opposed to wholesale water changes. Figure out how to flush 100% daily, and you'll be on to something!
Well as of now I'm flushing 50% daily with this system. I could bump it up to close to 100% with a bigger RO system. But I'm going to see how it goes at 50 to 60% first.
Jayy, unless I misunderstand and you have changed from a drip system, you may be pumping 50 - 60% new water volume in per day but that doesn't amount that in terms of water change. It would be more like half of those numbers due to what Darrell explained. You are mixing new clean water constantly with dirty water and both clean and dirty water are constantly draining from the overflow in a drip system. I'll see if I can find the post, but there used to be a calculation posted as well as a link to an online calculator that will give you pretty accurate numbers. With a simple drain then refill scenario you can do more efficient water changes with less water so if cost is a factor for you then that should be considered as well, otherwise to achieve the same results you need to use push much higher water volume through the drip system to reach the same result.
found it:
for refernce it is from: http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?104950-Constant-drip-water-change-system post 3
http://www.angelfish.net/DripSystemcalc.php
so on a 220 gal tank to achieve the same as a 50% water change you would have to pump a little over 150 gal per day through your system and almost 210 gal per day to get the result of a 60% water change.
found it:
for refernce it is from: http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?104950-Constant-drip-water-change-system post 3
http://www.angelfish.net/DripSystemcalc.php
so on a 220 gal tank to achieve the same as a 50% water change you would have to pump a little over 150 gal per day through your system and almost 210 gal per day to get the result of a 60% water change.
That's the same calculator I was using. I'm currently putting 150 GPD through the tank. Which if I remember comes out to 56% daily water change.
49 actually, but I was just pointing out that it's about 40 more gallons every day than you would need by doing a drain and refill and even much more if you wanted to do 60%. I don't think a drip system is a bad thing at all if you are willing to pump the right amount of water, but a change could be automated to be much more efficient if you pay for your water. Call me cheap but ..... :) I would always be stressing about water constantly running in my home and thinking it's just one more think that could malfunction and cause a flood. Been there - done that and never want to go through it again even though it was completely my inattentiveness that allowed it to happen.
49 actually, but I was just pointing out that it's about 40 more gallons every day than you would need by doing a drain and refill and even much more if you wanted to do 60%. I don't think a drip system is a bad thing at all if you are willing to pump the right amount of water, but a change could be automated to be much more efficient if you pay for your water. Call me cheap but ..... :) I would always be stressing about water constantly running in my home and thinking it's just one more think that could malfunction and cause a flood. Been there - done that and never want to go through it again even though it was completely my inattentiveness that allowed it to happen.
Anytime you run a RO system you risk flooding whether it goes right into a tank or into a holding container. In my case I drilled my sump and it leads straight into a floor drain. Only way it'll flood is if the drain pipe gets clogged. I have some parts on order to put together a backup safety system.
I am well aware that this type of system is less efficient in terms of water use. But it's much more efficient in not needing to heat and aerate a holding tank. And much more efficient in my time which is my main goal. It's a trade off.
I get the work and convenience part. I'd be interested to see how the heating part of it differs. If you don't find it too personal maybe you could track it for a month or two and compare the costs. In my case, I would suspect a drip would cost more since the water heater waould always be running to some extent but that's just a guess on my part not having tried it.
I get the work and convenience part. I'd be interested to see how the heating part of it differs. If you don't find it too personal maybe you could track it for a month or two and compare the costs. In my case, I would suspect a drip would cost more since the water heater waould always be running to some extent but that's just a guess on my part not having tried it.
Yes the water still needs to be heated but my natural gas heater is half the cost of electric heat.
I don't know that I can track it unless I also build a manual water change system which I don't think I want to invest in just for testing purposes
I was thinking you previously did manual water changes. I can see your bill would be smaller than mine in that instance though because i have electric water heating. But in the name of science take one for the team and do a comparison. It will give you the excuse to buy a second 220 gallon tank :) byw, if you ever need help making an excuse or justifying a purchase I'm always glad to help lol
I was thinking you previously did manual water changes. I can see your bill would be smaller than mine in that instance though because i have electric water heating. But in the name of science take one for the team and do a comparison. It will give you the excuse to buy a second 220 gallon tank :) byw, if you ever need help making an excuse or justifying a purchase I'm always glad to help lol
I appreciate that haha. Although it would still be very tough to test out successfully since in the spring I also start up a pool filter and my AC so my bill varies quite a bit anyway.
This 220 gallon is new, I just got it all setup. I did have saltwater before and did manual water changes but it wasn't so dependent on hot water. That was probably 2 years ago.
I've been studying the drip system calculator. It assumes that you have water dripping into the tank at one end and overflowing at the other end.
What I actually have is water dripping into the main tank, right in front of my return line nozzle so it gets blown all throughout the tank. Then the water overflows into a sump. Then the water trickles through bioballs and makes it's way to the other end of the sump, where it enters a chamber containing a pump that pumps much of it back up into the display tank to start over. What makes it past the pump finally runs through a bulkhead and down the drain.
So I think it's safe to say my water is very well mixed, which probably increases the efficiency of the drip system somewhat. Probably only a degree or two of effectiveness.
I've been studying the drip system calculator. It assumes that you have water dripping into the tank at one end and overflowing at the other end.
They might have worded that better. In forming the differential equation used for the calculator, the assumption is made that every drop entering the tank is thoroughly mixed in the tank.
http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?121853-Drain-and-fill-vs-fill-with-overflow&highlight=drip+equation
I keep thinking that some day I'll learn how to stop being a stubborn *** and learn from the experience of others better. Well evidently that day has not come. After tinkering and trying for a couple weeks to make this drip system work effectively, I've given up on it and I'm moving to a holding tank for water changes.
I bought a 150 gallon stock tank, and it fills 3/4 of the way with cold RO water. It shuts off with a float valve. I have one heater in it just to bring the temp up somewhat (it hovers around 70 degrees).
When I am ready to do a water change, I start draining the tank (and vacuum detritus off the bare bottom) and I also turn on a hot water valve that fills the stock tank the rest of the way and also increases the temp into the 80's. I add Safe when I turn on the hot water, and circulate the stock tank with a pump.
It takes about 30 minutes to drain 130 gallons out of the tank. Once it's drained I turn on a pump and pump water up from the stock tank. All told, my water changes take about an hour a day but most of this time is just waiting for the tank to drain and refill and keeping an eye so I don't overfill. If I try to do other things while this is going on I run the risk of draining too much from my tank, or overflowing either the main tank or the stock tank.
I need to reduce this amount of time since I'm doing daily water changes. I have some 12 volt valves and float switches, and a temp controller. I'm designing a system that will automatically shut off the hot water when the right temp is reached, and also will automatically drain and refill the tank to the proper level. If I can get it working right, then to do a water change all I'll have to do is flip a switch to start draining the tank and another one to start flowing hot water to the mixing tank. I can go off and work on other stuff, then come back in half an hour, flip one more switch and refill the tank.
Aljari
04-28-2016, 10:00 PM
I have a slightly different setup, and I'm wondering what you think. I have a constant filtered drip to avoid hauling water to my 100 gal, but to avoid the inefficiencies I have a large sump filter with a high overflow. I siphon the debris off my bare bottom tank removing about 20 gal daily which lowers the level in the sump to the minimum that keeps the pump in water, and the drip refills the sump. At 50 gal a day drip, and removing 20 gal dirty water daily, that's 70 gal a day that equates to about 60%? Since I siphon off to a sump pit that waters plants, I don't have to haul anything. Its been working well for years with rams, but new to discus. Does this make sense? Enough for discus?
MickO'S
05-01-2016, 07:24 PM
Hey Jayy,
I love your thread so far, I'm looking to set up a new 140-160 gallon discus tank at about Christmas time, I'm looking to do much the same as you....... Let a barrel of water of about 60 gallons build up once a day. I hope to add 10 mins of a power heads every couple of hours to blow the bottom clean (carefully not to disturbe discus to much) daily cleaning of filter socks to get rid of blown poo and food. Then I will daily clean all surfaces of the aquarium, Syphon out remaining ditirious and a daily 10 to 50% change. Most likely somewhere in between. To add to this I will run the water through my 40 watt deltech uv unit, followed by a, as yet Un-purchased purgeon reactor and to finish off an ozone reactor.
This is all just theory so far but am slowly converting my current high tech planted into this setup by Christmas, including bare bottom and no co2 and upgrading my 125 gallon to a 140-160 gallon new opti white glass set up with the same sump and filter setup:))
I hope this will allow a little bit of latitude to allow life to get in the way as it does.
Love all your ideas so far, look forward to your progress pictures of your discus as they grow :))
Ps a lot of my ideas come from reading this thread and researching this fourm. Thanks all for the help so far
Mick
chuckiesmalls
05-06-2016, 09:58 PM
Is it bad to hate you for being a genius?
Adjust it to 50% a day...youll be straight!
Hey folks,
I'm planning on building a DIY drip system for my 220 gallon tank and I wanted to hear some experience on this and whether it's effective or not. My aim is to simplify and more or less automate daily water changes.
I built a charcoal filter out of a 8" long 1.5" wide piece of PVC pipe. It's got a screw on cap on top. In the bottom I drilled the pipe and inserted airline tubing, sealed in with silicone. Water enters the filter at the bottom and the pipe slowly fills up with water, steeping the water in the activated carbon. At the very top I drilled several small holes in the pipe where the water passes out and into my sump.
I can adjust the flow of water with a valve, and I'd be aiming for about 25 gallons per day. After the water leaves the carbon filter, it flows past my heaters and is pumped up into the main tank.
Since I am adding 25 gallons a day I also have to remove 25 gallons a day. I have a DIY overflow that removes this water and dumps it down the drain.
So, the question is, would I be able to reduce the amount of water changes I have to do manually if I am constantly dripping a gallon an hour or so out of the tank? I know I can't eliminate water changes completely. I know I'll need to change or rinse my mechanical media daily, and siphon any detritus that builds up on the bare bottom tank often.
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