General signs or indicators of illness, and how to diagnose?

[Jayy]

I'm new to discus, I've got 6 Turquoise ranging from 3.5-5" and 10 silver dollar sized Pidgeons. I've had them for a couple weeks now. As far as I can tell they are doing well, and the two largest turquoise spawned on a manzanita branch earlier this week (which I assume is a pretty good indicator of good health?).

I fish-less cycled my tank and added the Pidgeons. A few weeks later I added the turquoise, and then about 2 weeks after all the fish were finally added, I noticed a small ammonia spike that happened after I changed my filter pads (I should have changed them one at a time instead of all at once). I added Safe and a bunch of Marineland bacteria. I have a trickle filter sump with bio balls, and after this I added some well-rinsed pumice rock to the bottom of the sump to increase the media available for bacteria. So it's a wet\dry filter now. It's a 220 gallon tank and I'm running a 1350 GPH pump to turn over the water 6x an hour.

My only concerns are that the smaller Turquoise show faint stress bars still, pretty much continually, and from time to time they seem to be breathing 'heavy'. Their gills open up or flare out more while they breathe than the larger fish do.

Is that something to be concerned about?


I do 60% water changes 5x a week using a mixture of RO water and tap that is heated to about 82 degrees and treated with Safe. The tank is kept at 85-86 degrees.

I'd also like to know some general signs of illness or disease that I should be looking out for? What are the most common diseases that affect discus and the warning signs?

[Phillydubs]

Jay,

I will try my best to answer some of your questions...

For starters most will tell you that trying to grow juvies in such a big tank and with other larger fish is not ideal. It seems like you are doing a good amount and size of water changes but most here will frown upon the set-up. I have never grown out such small juvies or done anything remotely close to your set-up, so I can't speak directly on it, just telling you based upon much reading and being apart of this forum...

That being said... Did you QT any of the additions as they went in? You said you started w the small pigeons then came the turq's. With small juvies such as yours, their immune systems are growing and developing and if there was an issue w those turqs, it would easily be passed over to others, especially smaller, developing fish.

By change the pads, you mean removed them and added new? Can they not be squeezed in tank water to clean and put back. Most of your beneficial bacteria is going to reside on those pads and is essential. It sounds like you learned your lesson on that front and pulled through...

As far as your concerns with the breathing and stress bars. Depending on where your tank is and the activity going on you are going to see different things. I wouldn't be too concerned about the bars and the breathing, unless it is really over the top, you could have startled them or my fish seem to breathe heavier as they eat or are chasing others...

In my experience the true indicator for not only fish but any animal is appetite and eating. Once they stop eating or show no desire or interest in food, something is up... Many discus will turn dark and try to hide or not be very social, again early signs that there is an issue. As well as the feces, white feces or anything abnormal will tell a story as well...

Hope this helps a bit...

Do you have the ability space or tanks to raise the fish in a smaller tank until they grow?

[Jayy]

Jay,

I will try my best to answer some of your questions...

For starters most will tell you that trying to grow juvies in such a big tank and with other larger fish is not ideal. It seems like you are doing a good amount and size of water changes but most here will frown upon the set-up. I have never grown out such small juvies or done anything remotely close to your set-up, so I can't speak directly on it, just telling you based upon much reading and being apart of this forum...

That being said... Did you QT any of the additions as they went in? You said you started w the small pigeons then came the turq's. With small juvies such as yours, their immune systems are growing and developing and if there was an issue w those turqs, it would easily be passed over to others, especially smaller, developing fish.

In this case I did not quarantine just because I got both varieties from the same source. Not the same tank, but I figured if one of his tanks was sick they all likely were. A small risk yes.


By change the pads, you mean removed them and added new? Can they not be squeezed in tank water to clean and put back. Most of your beneficial bacteria is going to reside on those pads and is essential. It sounds like you learned your lesson on that front and pulled through...

My filter pads are just squares of polyester batting cut to fit the drip plates of my trickle filter. I've tried rinsing them but they tend to clump up and aren't usable a second time. So I just toss them and put in a new one. I was replacing both at one time, now I do them one at a time.


As far as your concerns with the breathing and stress bars. Depending on where your tank is and the activity going on you are going to see different things. I wouldn't be too concerned about the bars and the breathing, unless it is really over the top, you could have startled them or my fish seem to breathe heavier as they eat or are chasing others...

In my experience the true indicator for not only fish but any animal is appetite and eating. Once they stop eating or show no desire or interest in food, something is up... Many discus will turn dark and try to hide or not be very social, again early signs that there is an issue. As well as the feces, white feces or anything abnormal will tell a story as well...

Hope this helps a bit...

Ok, this is great to know. My fish are eating very well. I drop in the chunk of food and they swarm it like crazy. I feed 4x a day. When I've read or heard people talking about discus darkening, I thought they just referred to the stress bars showing up. So the whole fish will actually get darker in color? I have not seen any of that happening. They do tend to hide a bit, under a manzanita stump I have, or in the corner by the overflow. But they come out often enough also.


Do you have the ability space or tanks to raise the fish in a smaller tank until they grow?

Not right now, but I do have a plan to convert part of my home office so I can put in a tank rack for QT and breeding. I'd planned for this to be a few weeks down the road, but maybe I can move it up. The juvies do seem to be doing stellar, they are always out and about shoaling around the tank, they don't hide hardly ever, they eat like they are starving. Do juveniles change color at all? These ones have always just been the same color since I got them.