Not a great introduction to Discus...

[wtwwg]

So my first discus, which I unknowingly got from a not-so-reputable source, (very sadly) passed away.

New problem: the discus I got from a very reputable local source, and which was in with the original for a while, is now sick. Originally he was just pinning his dorsal fin, which I attributed to some sort of submission behavior. Now however, he seems to have swollen, protruding gills on one side, is rubbing against everything in the tank, breathing heavily and acting lethargic. He spreads his fins, however, which confuses me.

I assume it's gill flukes and am currently treating with Prazipro at dosage recommended on the container. Am I treating correctly? Differential diagnosis?

My water is pristine, though I suspect pH might vary quite a bit with large water changes. No room for water aging tubs, so... buffers? less water changes?

Need some guidance, as these fish are frustrating me to no end. If they do not die shortly, I will set them up in their own 75 gallon in the summer, when I have more time. For now though, I need solutions where they can stay in my planted display tank or be treated in 20 gal hospital tank.

I have a sneaking suspicion the cause of the diseases is my boyfriend's much loved snails. Thoughts?

[Akili]

I suggest you fill out Disease Questionnaire in the Emergency Room, here is the link http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?38545-Disease-Questionnaire-please-complete

[Phillydubs]

Is it the only fish left?

You had a sick fish then added another fish to the sick tank... This fish will most likely see the same fate and prob isn't saveable or worth saving ...

If you want to do discus right and successfully then get them their own tank and learn all you can here

[lksdrinker]

Is it the only fish left?

This fish will most likely see the same fate and prob isn't saveable or worth saving ...



Of course its worth saving! It will see the same fate if you dont intervene. Until its good and dead just about everything that we might encounter in this hobby is treatable! Sure some are harder than others to cure; but thats no reason to give up before trying.

to the OP: the snails probably have nothing to do with it. You yourself admitted your first discus came from a non-reputable source. You know what caused the issue already. If you have a hospital tank available then use it; but keep in mind that whatever affected this fish is in its current tank already too. If this is an adult discus there is no reason it cant be kept in a planted tank (once its good and healthy and assuming you get some other discus in there since they are a social fish). I'm also always a bit cautious whenever someone talks about their "pristine" water. What are the parameters? what makes it pristine?

[DISCUS STU]

I've kept Mystery Snails but only introduced them after quarantine. A hospital tank is definitely recommended, bacterial gill disease can also resemble flukes, as can high nitrites, etc. Not to confuse you or the issue but this may or may not be flukes.

Do your best to save the fish, always worthwhile and good experience. BB tanks are usually recommended, planted tanks, gravel bottoms may work fine for other fish species but Discus compared to other fish are more prone to bacterial infection than most of the other tropicals and having as few sources as possible for harmful bacteria is better.

[ericNH]

Of course its worth saving! It will see the same fate if you dont intervene. Until its good and dead just about everything that we might encounter in this hobby is treatable!

Well, that's debatable. Yes, the fish is in your care and you owe it to your fish to try and keep them happy and healthy. But if said fish is endangering your others, and/or is not going to make it then maybe it's better to euthanize at that point. It depends on what you want to get out of this hobby. What if you are breeding them? Will you try and save every single fry? Personally I haven't ever culled a sick or unhealthy discus, but I could see valid reasons for doing so. The ones I have had that got sick, most died anyway. But a couple of them actually turned the corner and came back fine. Not huge, but still nice.

[nc0gnet0]

I've kept Mystery Snails but only introduced them after quarantine. A hospital tank is definitely recommended, bacterial gill disease can also resemble flukes, as can high nitrites, etc. Not to confuse you or the issue but this may or may not be flukes.

Do your best to save the fish, always worthwhile and good experience. BB tanks are usually recommended, planted tanks, gravel bottoms may work fine for other fish species but Discus compared to other fish are more prone to bacterial infection than most of the other tropicals and having as few sources as possible for harmful bacteria is better.

If your quarantine a snail, how do you know if its sick or carrying parasites?

[lksdrinker]

Well, that's debatable. Yes, the fish is in your care and you owe it to your fish to try and keep them happy and healthy. But if said fish is endangering your others, and/or is not going to make it then maybe it's better to euthanize at that point. It depends on what you want to get out of this hobby. What if you are breeding them? Will you try and save every single fry? Personally I haven't ever culled a sick or unhealthy discus, but I could see valid reasons for doing so. The ones I have had that got sick, most died anyway. But a couple of them actually turned the corner and came back fine. Not huge, but still nice.

I understand what you're saying; but in this case the damage is already done. Whatever might be affecting the fish is affecting the entire tank. Removing and euthanising the fish wont change that; and until you attempt some sort of treatment its pretty tough to say whether or not the fish might make it. Culling juvies is a much different ball game than trying to treat an adult discus. You cull deformed fry that have something likely wrong with their genetics and have no chance of being a big healthy adult. If this fish was a healthy specimen that someone already put in some effort to raise properly then I certainly wouldn't just give up on it.

[DISCUS STU]

If your quarantine a snail, how do you know if its sick or carrying parasites?

If it dies I assume it was sick or carrying parasites, lol. But seriously, I qt. with PraziPro and treat with Metro. This is part of my qt. for all fish, invertebrates, etc. that will eventually be introduced into the primary tanks. I've recently started using Levamisole but don't if that is snail compatible.

I don't keep Mystery Snails anymore for the fact that they generate more waste than they're worth. Originally I had introduced them as algae controllers and they did this well enough but I also found them to be aesthetically pleasing, especially the Yellow ones. At maturity they also tended to breed in very high numbers. I enjoyed them in and for themselves for a while but don't keep them anymore. Too much extra work.

[chuckiesmalls]

How big our your ph swings my friend?

DO you have a test kit and can tell us?

I am almost certain that might be it. Discus are sensitive to even slight changes in Ph. They need a very gradual change. Large swings can really mess your fish up and even kill them sometimes.

So if they are stressed from Ph swings, then they will be more susceptible because their immune systems are weaker.

There are ALWSY bugs and baddies in all water in our tanks just like germs and bacteria that exist in our (human) world. If we are strong and healthy those bacteria have a MUCH harder time infecting us. Ditto for discus IMO.

Hope this helps and yes, QT that sucker ASAP and treat with Parzi first and then metro. Or you can go for API Quick Cure that has both. I personally do not like to mix meds unless it was done so by the manufacturer. You can make killer cocktails unknowingly I have heard by mixing treatments from diff. manufacturers.

Good luck

[chuckiesmalls]

How big our your ph swings my friend?

DO you have a test kit and can tell us?

I am almost certain that might be it. Discus are sensitive to even slight changes in Ph. They need a very gradual change. Large swings can really mess your fish up and even kill them sometimes.

So if they are stressed from Ph swings, then they will be more susceptible because their immune systems are weaker.

There are ALWSY bugs and baddies in all water in our tanks just like germs and bacteria that exist in our (human) world. If we are strong and healthy those bacteria have a MUCH harder time infecting us. Ditto for discus IMO.

Hope this helps and yes, QT that sucker ASAP and treat with Parzi first and then metro. Or you can go for API Quick Cure that has both. I personally do not like to mix meds unless it was done so by the manufacturer. You can make killer cocktails unknowingly I have heard by mixing treatments from diff. manufacturers.

Good luck

[ericNH]

I understand what you're saying; but in this case the damage is already done. Whatever might be affecting the fish is affecting the entire tank. Removing and euthanising the fish wont change that; and until you attempt some sort of treatment its pretty tough to say whether or not the fish might make it. Culling juvies is a much different ball game than trying to treat an adult discus. You cull deformed fry that have something likely wrong with their genetics and have no chance of being a big healthy adult. If this fish was a healthy specimen that someone already put in some effort to raise properly then I certainly wouldn't just give up on it.

Well, those are good points, all of them. I guess I have to have to agree with you in this case.