Kraig Koontz NADA 2016 Discus

[Larry Bugg]

I was lucky to be able to bring some discus from Kraig Koontz home from the NADA 2016 Show in Chicago. Kraig is very purposeful when it comes to breeding discus. He doesn't just take any old male and female and breed them. He is always looking for a certain trait or lineage to pursue. Two of the things he was chasing really appeal to me. He was working on breeding some discus like the old Piwo turqs and he was working on some wild crosses. I've always been a sucker for turqs and my plan has been to work on some wild/domestic crosses once I get the new fish room set up.

There was a crowd of people waiting to help Kraig unbox his fish when he arrived at the Show because they eagerly wanted to see what he had brought and be first in line to buy. When I saw this first group of 3 1/2 tp 4" turqs I almost fell on the floor when I saw the Heckle bar on several of them. I immediately counted the six I saw and bought them. My plan is to breed them back to a wild heckle when they are grown out. Sunday morning he still had 14 without bars in the tank and I split the group with someone and ended up with 13 total. These Kraig bred from a Dexter Heckle cross x Wantanabe (Japanese blood line).



http://i741.photobucket.com/albums/xx56/Bugman30040/Dexter%20Wantanabe%20Cross/20160716_184753_zpsc4wln6dc.jpg (http://s741.photobucket.com/user/Bugman30040/media/Dexter%20Wantanabe%20Cross/20160716_184753_zpsc4wln6dc.jpg.html)


http://i741.photobucket.com/albums/xx56/Bugman30040/Dexter%20Wantanabe%20Cross/20160716_184731_zpsmqynbz2u.jpg (http://s741.photobucket.com/user/Bugman30040/media/Dexter%20Wantanabe%20Cross/20160716_184731_zpsmqynbz2u.jpg.html)


http://i741.photobucket.com/albums/xx56/Bugman30040/Dexter%20Wantanabe%20Cross/20160716_184613_zpsvl0fes1y.jpg (http://s741.photobucket.com/user/Bugman30040/media/Dexter%20Wantanabe%20Cross/20160716_184613_zpsvl0fes1y.jpg.html)


http://i741.photobucket.com/albums/xx56/Bugman30040/Dexter%20Wantanabe%20Cross/20160716_184454_zpsgmlggl7s.jpg (http://s741.photobucket.com/user/Bugman30040/media/Dexter%20Wantanabe%20Cross/20160716_184454_zpsgmlggl7s.jpg.html)



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gi_Bvc2MTxs&feature=youtu.be

[brewmaster15]

If I wasnt traveling after the show Larry, I would have left there with some too! Got yourself a nice group of Discus there my friend!:) Look forward to seeing what you do with them!

al

[Larry Bugg]

The next group I bought came from a from a cross Kraig did using a Wantanabe solid type Japanese bloodline with a high body Turq from Martha Morris. Kraig brought some young adults 6"+ siblings of these which sold quickly. He had a tank of 20 4" juvies and I split the tank with a friend of mine here in Atlanta.


http://i741.photobucket.com/albums/xx56/Bugman30040/Wantanabe%20Morris/20160716_184823_zpscdcp7rga.jpg (http://s741.photobucket.com/user/Bugman30040/media/Wantanabe%20Morris/20160716_184823_zpscdcp7rga.jpg.html)


http://i741.photobucket.com/albums/xx56/Bugman30040/Wantanabe%20Morris/20160716_185120_zpsfxmkogv7.jpg (http://s741.photobucket.com/user/Bugman30040/media/Wantanabe%20Morris/20160716_185120_zpsfxmkogv7.jpg.html)


http://i741.photobucket.com/albums/xx56/Bugman30040/Wantanabe%20Morris/20160716_184913_zpsru0hla87.jpg (http://s741.photobucket.com/user/Bugman30040/media/Wantanabe%20Morris/20160716_184913_zpsru0hla87.jpg.html)



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOSosiWLTiI

[John_Nicholson]

I also wanted some of those fish but by the time all of my other responsiblities had been met I was a little too late...LOL. Larry when you get them going just remember who your friends are...LOL.

-john

[discuspaul]

Larry, the fish you got are fabulous looking specimens and I'm sure your breeding efforts with them in the new fish cabin will produce some very good-looking and valued offspring.
You've got a lot to look forward to !

[Kal-El]

It was great meeting you, Larry. Glad you have these batch... I'll be following your progress on growing them out. They look excellent in your tank. Thanks to Kraig and his hard work on breeding these. Glad he sold out on all his fish and was able to raise the money he aim for. I have four adults Piwow F1 RT that I hope produce some good batch of fry for me.

[Ardan]

Larry,
Those are very nice! Good luck with them:)

Ardan

[Trier20]

Looks like they have settled in nicely!

[Phillydubs]

Wow what a score! Those guys w the heckle bar are just rediculolsy gorgeous !!

[Jack L]

agreed, cool looking variety, good luck.

[Larry Bugg]

Last but not least is a proven pair from Kraig. Originally I wasn't going to bring any fish home from the Show but I saw this pair and knew I had to have them. As I said before, I'm interested in working on some wild/domestic crosses. The female is a big Wantanabe cobalt. Kraig told me that this discus was originally solid but recently started showing the striation across the center of the body. Wantanabe is know for some Jumbo discus and this female fits that. The male is a wild uatuma red that won first place in the wild class at the Show in Chicago. With wilds the females reds are usually the ones to show a lot of red but this male isn't aware of that. Kraig brought a group of their juvies to the Show and at 2 1/2 to 3" some of them were already showing some promise of red.


http://i741.photobucket.com/albums/xx56/Bugman30040/Wantanabe%20Morris/Wild%20Uatuma%20Red%20x%20Wantanabe%20Cobalt/20160716_192820_zpsamexilui.jpg (http://s741.photobucket.com/user/Bugman30040/media/Wantanabe%20Morris/Wild%20Uatuma%20Red%20x%20Wantanabe%20Cobalt/20160716_192820_zpsamexilui.jpg.html)


http://i741.photobucket.com/albums/xx56/Bugman30040/Wantanabe%20Morris/Wild%20Uatuma%20Red%20x%20Wantanabe%20Cobalt/20160716_170658_zpsqpp9lafh.jpg (http://s741.photobucket.com/user/Bugman30040/media/Wantanabe%20Morris/Wild%20Uatuma%20Red%20x%20Wantanabe%20Cobalt/20160716_170658_zpsqpp9lafh.jpg.html)



http://i741.photobucket.com/albums/xx56/Bugman30040/Wantanabe%20Morris/Wild%20Uatuma%20Red%20x%20Wantanabe%20Cobalt/20160716_185436_zpsepus4ttc.jpg (http://s741.photobucket.com/user/Bugman30040/media/Wantanabe%20Morris/Wild%20Uatuma%20Red%20x%20Wantanabe%20Cobalt/20160716_185436_zpsepus4ttc.jpg.html)



http://i741.photobucket.com/albums/xx56/Bugman30040/Wantanabe%20Morris/Wild%20Uatuma%20Red%20x%20Wantanabe%20Cobalt/20160716_185717_zpsiu2bhqph.jpg (http://s741.photobucket.com/user/Bugman30040/media/Wantanabe%20Morris/Wild%20Uatuma%20Red%20x%20Wantanabe%20Cobalt/20160716_185717_zpsiu2bhqph.jpg.html)

[Discuschill]

What a great group, Larry. Look great in your tank.

[Bill63SG]

Very nice Larry.

[Second Hand Pat]

Larry, you really scored here. That fish cabin will be filled in no time lol.
Pat

[Kirbs]

Nice job getting those Larry! They all look fabulous! Looking forward to their progress.

[pitdogg2]

Yep they are nice for sure. If Kraig would had 50 of those barred fish we all would been trying to out bid each other they are that nice. I talked to Kraig also expressed how much I would love to have some.

I was just wondering what you ended up with Larry. You made out like a bandit and it was very nice talking to you at the show.
Good luck and keep me in mind when you have some to part with.

[Kingdom Come Discus]

Larry,

Your too of kind. The fish look better now than ever. I am so glad you took these guys home. They couldn't be in better hands.

Thank you my friend,
Kraig

[Jack L]

Do you know age of female when it started to show the red?

These photos are interesting in that the side by side highlights the different shape of wild to domestic

[jmf3460]

first fish, the turqs with the heckel bar, by crossing them back to a wild heckel, what do you plan to highlight? More bars, more prominent middle bar? Blue face?

[Altum Nut]

Although photos look good Larry...to see them in person was sure a jaw dropper.
I'm sure you will have some stunning offspring to offer us in the near future.
I too am a sucker for Turks but more-so these lines coming in from Kraig. I suppose Larry will you have a lock on your Discus Cabin...Just asking :evilgrin:
Sure wish I had the paper work handy to bring a group across the border.

...Ralph

[Larry Bugg]

Yep they are nice for sure. If Kraig would had 50 of those barred fish we all would been trying to out bid each other they are that nice. I talked to Kraig also expressed how much I would love to have some.

I was just wondering what you ended up with Larry. You made out like a bandit and it was very nice talking to you at the show.
Good luck and keep me in mind when you have some to part with.

I was nice meeting you also. Meeting everyone is without a doubt the highlight of these shows. I can't tell you how fast I hit the paypal button on my phone when I saw the prominent bars, lol.

[Larry Bugg]

Larry,

Your too of kind. The fish look better now than ever. I am so glad you took these guys home. They couldn't be in better hands.

Thank you my friend,
Kraig

I'm spending a lot of time watching these guys and they eat like pigs which makes me happy. Just hoping I can follow up with what you started.

[Larry Bugg]

Do you know age of female when it started to show the red?

These photos are interesting in that the side by side highlights the different shape of wild to domestic

Actually the wild red is the male not female. The female is the Wantanabe and doesn't have great shape but like Kraig I'm interested in her because of the Japanese blood line.

[Larry Bugg]

first fish, the turqs with the heckel bar, by crossing them back to a wild heckel, what do you plan to highlight? More bars, more prominent middle bar? Blue face?

The hope is to get more to exhibit the prominent 5th bar from the heckle.

[Larry Bugg]

Although photos look good Larry...to see them in person was sure a jaw dropper.
I'm sure you will have some stunning offspring to offer us in the near future.
I too am a sucker for Turks but more-so these lines coming in from Kraig. I suppose Larry will you have a lock on your Discus Cabin...Just asking :evilgrin:
Sure wish I had the paper work handy to bring a group across the border.

...Ralph

I can buy a lot of nice fish but have no idea what their lineage is but buying these from Kraig is different.

[jmf3460]

The hope is to get more to exhibit the prominent 5th bar from the heckle.

will you cross them with a blue faced heckel or a normal heckel? Do you already have your wild heckel?

[Larry Bugg]

will you cross them with a blue faced heckel or a normal heckel? Do you already have your wild heckel?

I do have a heckle that I bought from Mark with the intent to use in a domestic/wild cross. It is a very nice Nhamunda blue face that I hope is a male but these juvies will take another 6 months or so before they are ready to be bred so I don't know if he will be the one. Not so worried about blue face or not since it is the heckle bar that I will be chasing.

http://i741.photobucket.com/albums/xx56/Bugman30040/20160716_184433_zpswj2vvawi.jpg (http://s741.photobucket.com/user/Bugman30040/media/20160716_184433_zpswj2vvawi.jpg.html)

Pretty sure I will be getting a few more wilds in from Mark when wild season starts back up again.

[Jack L]

Actually the wild red is the male not female. The female is the Wantanabe and doesn't have great shape but like Kraig I'm interested in her because of the Japanese blood line.

oh i mean, the female, i thought you said the red lines showed up later in its life. i was wondering the age if you knew it.

reason, because i have some snakeskins and they are over a year old now, and it seems the the pattern is still changing.

[Larry Bugg]

oh i mean, the female, i thought you said the red lines showed up later in its life. i was wondering the age if you knew it.

reason, because i have some snakeskins and they are over a year old now, and it seems the the pattern is still changing.

Oh, ok. Now I understand, lol. Kraig would have to answer that question but I believe he imported the Wantanabe discus around 4 years ago and he told me it recently started showing the striations so my guess would be at least after it was a couple of years old. My hope is that since it comes from a line of solid Wantanabe discus, it's offspring will include solids and striated discus. Time will tell.

[rickztahone]

Saw these in persona and am glad they are going to you Larry. You will continue to do right by these. I saw immediately how happy you were to have scored these, and I am happy for you too :)

[jawfish]

Love those Heckel Cross X Watanabe Larry, looking forward to seeing them develop with time
Cheers,
Fred

[Larry Bugg]

Uatuma wild red and the Wantanabe spawned today.

http://i741.photobucket.com/albums/xx56/Bugman30040/20160811_184827_zpsujggirn7.jpg (http://s741.photobucket.com/user/Bugman30040/media/20160811_184827_zpsujggirn7.jpg.html)

[Kingdom Come Discus]

That is great. They had been on a long break. They were great parents at my place. I have about a dozen fry here now. Here is a recent video.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2anemykorYI

[Kingdom Come Discus]

Oh, ok. Now I understand, lol. Kraig would have to answer that question but I believe he imported the Wantanabe discus around 4 years ago and he told me it recently started showing the striations so my guess would be at least after it was a couple of years old. My hope is that since it comes from a line of solid Wantanabe discus, it's offspring will include solids and striated discus. Time will tell.

Larry so sorry for the confusion. The fish you are referring to which was late getting striations is the Jumbo Male Mike came hope with. The one paired up with the Martha Morris female. The female Wantanabe you have is more solid now as she was more striated when she was young.

Sorry to have confused you,
They are looking great though.

[Larry Bugg]

Time for an update on the groups. It's been just a little over 3 months since I brought these guys home from the NADA Show

First up is the Dexter Heckle cross x Wantanabe group. These guys ranged from 3" to 4" when I brought them home. The largest is now 5.5". The heckle bar that first got me interested in 5 of these guys can still be seen but it is not as prominent as it was when I first got them.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iNK7GU17eH0

Next is the Wantanabe x High Bodied Red Turq. These were 3.5 to 4" when I got them and the largest is now 5.5". I've never seen discus attack food like this group does.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6HKi2QfN2A

[Larry Bugg]

Here is the Wild Namunda Red x Wantanabe. They had a very small spawn that are 2 months old and they now have a spawn of about 60 that are 12 days free swimming.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=plu7HTgzkSo

This last vid is of the small spawn which is about 2 months old now. The largest is about 2.5". I have been really please with the growth of these guys. Hopefully the spawn they currently have will progress as well as these.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNRHdANVkK8

[Altum Nut]

They are looking great Larry and think stunning is best suited....what really caught my eye at Nada was the Wantanabe x High Bodied Red Turq.
I remember that morning looking at that tank against the back wall...and if i remember correctly Rich T also got some.
If i play my cards right in 2018...I should have the paper work to bring them across the border and believe me it hurt going home empty handed....but all was somewhat fine after finally running into a Tim Horton's coffee shop.Lol
So hope you have some ready for me Larry.

...Ralph

[rickztahone]

Looking good as ever Larry.

[Larry Bugg]

They are looking great Larry and think stunning is best suited....what really caught my eye at Nada was the Wantanabe x High Bodied Red Turq.
I remember that morning looking at that tank against the back wall...and if i remember correctly Rich T also got some.
If i play my cards right in 2018...I should have the paper work to bring them across the border and believe me it hurt going home empty handed....but all was somewhat fine after finally running into a Tim Horton's coffee shop.Lol
So hope you have some ready for me Larry.

...Ralph

Rich didn't get any of Kraig's discus but he certainly "encouraged" me to buy all that I could. A friend of mine from Atlanta split this tank with me so I ended up with 10 of them. There are 13 of the Dexter Heckle cross and both groups have been in 40 breeder's the whole time with daily 50 to 60% water changes. They have grown quite well in the 40's but I'm ready to get them in 75's as soon as the fish room is running.

[Altum Nut]

Rich didn't get any of Kraig's discus but he certainly "encouraged" me to buy all that I could.

I guess I'm wrong because as Kraig was putting the liners in his bags I could have sworn I noticed Rich picking out fish from that tank.
Oh well I guess it was my mind in La-La land knowing I had to drive home without Discus. Lol

None the less Larry, you really know how to spend your retirement days.

...Ralph

[Larry Bugg]

I guess I'm wrong because as Kraig was putting the liners in his bags I could have sworn I noticed Rich picking out fish from that tank.
Oh well I guess it was mind in La-La land knowing I had to drive home without Discus. Lol

None the less Larry, you really know how to spend your retirement days.

...Ralph

You probably did, lol. He helped me pick out my fish.

[discuspaul]

Have to say Larry, I just love that Namunda - Wantanabe combo.

[RockRiverfish]

Hi Larry,

This post is long over due (almost 4 months now), but better late than never I suppose. I was the one that split the remaining Heckel Cross X Watanabe with you and am very happy that I did. They are doing well. Probably not as well as yours, but I do what I can for them. I'll try to post a picture sometime. Thanks for helping explain the heritage of these fish and giving me the confidence in Kraig's fish to make the purchase. My next post will be to thank him directly. I also wanted to thank you for making me feel welcome from the minute that I walked in the door. I have limited experience with discus, but that didn't seem to matter to anyone that I talked to that weekend. Everyone was friendly and willing to talk.

Looking forward to the next NADA show.

Dan Randall

[Larry Bugg]

Hi Larry,

This post is long over due (almost 4 months now), but better late than never I suppose. I was the one that split the remaining Heckel Cross X Watanabe with you and am very happy that I did. They are doing well. Probably not as well as yours, but I do what I can for them. I'll try to post a picture sometime. Thanks for helping explain the heritage of these fish and giving me the confidence in Kraig's fish to make the purchase. My next post will be to thank him directly. I also wanted to thank you for making me feel welcome from the minute that I walked in the door. I have limited experience with discus, but that didn't seem to matter to anyone that I talked to that weekend. Everyone was friendly and willing to talk.

Looking forward to the next NADA show.

Dan Randall

Hey Dan, I'm really glad you posted. I'm glad the fish are doing well for you and I look forward to seeing pictures.

Your experience of the NADA Show was very similar to my first one which was the first Show in Dallas. I didn't know a lot of people there but also felt very welcomed. I'm generally introverted until I have a chance to get to know people. At a party I was always the guy standing over on the sidelines. Several NADA members went out of their way to make me feel like I belonged. John, Jim, Willie and Rich to name a few. This is what we want to happen at every NADA Show and I hope that others felt the same way as you. I appreciate your compliments. One of my passions is to share my love of discus and help others grow in the hobby.