Discus resisting Hexamita treatment

[George Crossley]

Hello. I am new to this forum and am hoping some experienced Discus keepers can lend some advice. I have six 3 inch discus in a 65 gallon planted tank. One by one they have all come down with hexamita. Scared, hiding in corners at back of tank, not eating at all and secreting white substance from bowels.

I have been treating with Seachem's Metronidazole product for about two weeks now. I am not administering it through food as they stopped eating. Adding it directly to the tank as per the instructions on the product. Also turned temp up to 90 degrees. Doing some water change every two days and re-treating. While the discus are swimming around in the tank more and not hiding like they did, they still are not eating. I am becoming more and more concerned that they are not responding to the treatment as they should.

Any advice? Do I just need to give it more time? Should I increase the dosage? I have read about Epsom salts being a possible treatment as well. Does anyone know how to administer Epsom salt when fish are not eating?

Here is my disease questionnaire:

Problem

1. Please explain the problems with your fish. When did you notice the problems and did anything unusual happen that you think started them?

Nothing unusual. Fish hiding, not eating. White, mucous bowel movement


2. Symptoms (i.e. turning dark, excess slime, not eating, clamped fins, flashing, darting, clamped gills, white/yellow/green poop, hiding, headstanding or tailstanding, white on tips of fins, rotting or fungus, blisters/white zits on fish, bloated, cloudy eyes, wounds).

Hiding, not eating


3. What medications/ treatments have you already tried and what were the results. Include dosage and duration of treatment.

Seachem's Metro. About two weeks of tretment



Tank/Water

4. Tank size and ages, numbers and sizes of fish.

65 gallon tank. Six discus between two and three inches. Have had tank for about three months.


5. Water change regime (What percentage and how often).

40 percent once a week. Ten gallons every two days.


6. How long has tank been running? Is it bare bottom? If you have substrate, what type and how deep is it?

Substrate, planted with driftwood. Tank up about three months.


7. Do you age your water? If you do for how long and what is the ph swing.

Do not age it.


8. Parameters and water source;


Note: Water Parameters are important in diagnosing problems within a tank. If you don't own test kits for the following information, you can purchase them, test your parameters and post this info as soon as possible.



- temp ___90 degrees currently__

- ph ___About 6.4 - 6.8__

- ammonia reading _none___

- nitrite reading __none__

- nitrate reading ____

What type of water or combinations of water sources do you use? If it is an RO/tap/well water mix, please list percentages in the mix.

- well water ____

- municipal water __25 percent__

- RO water _75 percent___


9. Any new fish, plants or inverts added recently.

No

10. Include any pictures or videos you have which shows the symptoms. If you can't add them to this post, please provide

Thanks for any help you might give.

George Crossley

[Akili]

Epsom salt as treatment is 1 tablespoon per 10 gallons

[nc0gnet0]

medication should never be done in a planted tank. Move to a bare bottom hospital tank. Your water change schedule has room for improvement as well..

[Fishquake]

I have orally administered metro, epsom salt, etc with good results.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZPeEe_32fo

[George Crossley]

medication should never be done in a planted tank. Move to a bare bottom hospital tank. Your water change schedule has room for improvement as well..

Do the plants interfere with the medication? does the medication hurt the plants?

[George Crossley]

Do you just put it into the tank? I thought maybe the fish had to be fed the Epson salt.

[Akili]

Add 1 tablespoon for every 10 gallons in the the tank but do it in a separate tank. Salt is not good for plants

[pitdogg2]

Do you just put it into the tank? I thought maybe the fish had to be fed the Epson salt.

no do not try and feed it. It helps by purging the gut so to speak and its just magnesium sulfate while i would put the fish in another tank for med's I've never had Epson salt effect my plants negatively.

too many things in the aq affect the way meds act so bare bottom with minimum filtration help the fish as the meds stay in solution better.

[John_Nicholson]

Every fish has hex. Normally their immune system can keep it in check. When you start seeing hex it is normally a secondary indicator of some other problem. My guess is dirty water. That is why I never grow out young discus in a planted tank.

-john

[LizStreithorst]

John and Rick are right. You are doing way too small WC even for Discus in a BB tank.

IMO you should move the 6 Discus to a BB tank with the temp of 90 degrees and treat them with 400 to 500 mg. of metro daily for 10 to 12 days. Commercial product's instructions generally say to dose at 250 mg per 10 which is not enough.

While your fish are in treatment in BB which you can do in a 55, change as much water as you can. It won't hurt the fish to flop on the bottom of the tank before you refill the tank and redose with metro.

I suggest that you buy your Metro from Jehmco. Just double the dose listed on the label or if you are unsure ask them convert grams of Metro to spoonsful. Metro is a very easy med on fish.

While the fish are under treatment in the BB vacuum all the crap in the substrate out or the planted tank until you have no water left in the tank. Refill the tank, stir up the gravel with you hand and do the same thing a second time before you put the treated fish back.

[George Crossley]

I appreciate everyone's advice. I have moved the fish into a quarantine tank. Will vacuum the substrate of the 65 gallon and completely change water.

I suppose I should treat the tank water itself with Metro to destroy remaining protozoa? If so, should I turn off my eheim canister filter? I do not have carbon in it. I also have a sponge filter operating as well.

[brewmaster15]

Hi George, Sorry to hear you are having problems. Honestly though, I'm not sure you are even dealing with " Hexamita" here.
Scared, hiding in corners at back of tank, not eating at all and secreting white substance from bowels. These symptoms can mean alot of things. An internal protozoan infection is just one of them. Unfortunately the diagnosis is not something you can make symptomatiically. Stress alone will cause the problems you describe.

Moving the fish to the a hospital tank was a good call...maintaining optimal water quality is great too. Could you post some pics of the fish in question and also of the tank they came from? What kind of tankmates did you keep with them?

Thanks,
al

[George Crossley]

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These are only photos I have at the moment. This was first fish to get sick.

I tend to think it is hexamita because of the white slimy waste coming out of the fish but would love to know your thoughts.

Also, is it necessary to have mechanical filtration? What if I just ran two sponge filters in the tank? Better, worse?

Thanks.

George

[George Crossley]

99874

And here is photo of the tank. 65 gallons.

[nc0gnet0]

Do you have a picture of them in the hospital tank now?

Just sponge filters are fine. Looks like your lighting is a bit intense for them, can you dim it down?

[LizStreithorst]

I'm afraid that Discus is too far gone to be worth saving. sorry.

[George Crossley]

I will take photo this weekend and post.

[George Crossley]

After consideration of all the comments on this post, I decided to make major changes to my tank. While the fish are in the hospital tank, I am tearing down my 65 gallon and going bare bottom. I painted bottom and back of tank and it is drying overnight. Will set up the tank tomorrow. I plan to put the driftwood back in and have some small containers that I want to put a few plants in. Plan to return a couple rocks as well. Does anyone know if cork is safe? Thinking of using cork beneath the rocks to protect the tank bottom.

Any advice and thoughts are greatly appreciated.

George

[Akili]

Do not use cork as it will begin to deteriorate as time goes on, Just lay your rocks before you add the water.

[Filip]

Do not use cork as it will begin to deteriorate as time goes on, Just lay your rocks before you add the water.

+1 .
People ussualy put rocks on the bare glass or some use a stirofoam underneath.

[George Crossley]

Mama Bear - do you mean the discus will soon die regardless of treatment or that it will never reach its original potential?

[George Crossley]

9990499905999069990799908

Here are photos from the hospital tank. One died overnight. IT was one of the black striped ones. I can't tell the difference between the striped ones these days to give the name.

[chuckiesmalls]

I have orally administered metro, epsom salt, etc with good results.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZPeEe_32fo

Thank you I have been looking for instruction on this!!!!!

[LizStreithorst]

These fish have been in bad shape for a very long time. Treatment and a change in maintenance would have helped 6 or 8 months ago. At this point you might save some but I doubt it.