Few Questions from a newbie?

[TheLankster]

Ok so...first things first...i have a 29 gallon long tank. My first discus i ever owned was about 3-4 weeks ago and i had him in a community tank which clearly was not big enough nor the right tank mates because he eventually got sick and died (most likely from parasites)..

So now..on to my questions and plan

My plan is now (since i fallen in love w the beautiful fish) is on ordering 4-6 juvies from Stenker to grow out and eventually breed...(not sure on what kind leaning towards marlboro reds, feel free to offer strains). I plan to have a barebottom tank since it seems easier and much cleaner.

So..my questions: 1. Do i need a sump? Or can i get away with two HOB filters (w/sponges) as i have now. What are the advantages of a sump as compared to HOB?

2. Currently in my 29g tank i have about a quarter sized, green, blood parrot. He is little bigger than a quarter. Will he be okay in the tank with the juvies?

3. Also, is quarantine necessary? If tank is cycled properly and only has this parrot in it do i really have to wait 4-6 weeks?

4. Is there anything essential i should have, chemical wise? Stress coat, medications, etc..that are a must?

5. Should i keep a bottom feeder in with the juvies? or just make sure to siphon often?

[chuckiesmalls]

1. No you do not need a sump, HOB or sponge filters are fine.
2. No, parrot fish are more aggressive than discus and will out compete them for food and territory.
3. Quarantine is always necessary, not only for the existing fish but for the discus you are going to put in which should ideally be no less than 6. Discus have more sensitive immune systems than other cichlids and tropical fish. There are germs, bacteria and parasites everywhere in our and the fish's world. So, when you have a fish with a weakened immune system and add the stress of buying and moving a fish...there is a very strong chance its immune system will get even weaker making it susceptible...to ALL of those things that exist around them all of the time but wouldn't usually affect them because they are healthy and strong....kinda like when people have full-blown AIDS, their immune systems are compromised and basically just about anything will make them sick or kill them (sorry if the example upsets anyone, may not have been the best example)
4. IMO- salt, metronazidole, kanamycin sulfate, furan-2(notrofurazone err something I think its name is), levamisole/or flubendazole for fenbendazole, and praziquantel----search them on the forum for more info.

Good luck and remember, to keep these fish healthy and happy you need to feed well, water change a lot (I do daily 75% minimum on a 100gallon---I have juveniles), and be patient

Good luck and welcome to the best discus forum online IMO

[Akili]

A 29 gallon tank is not suitable to grow out 6 juveniles.To raise 6 Stendker to adulthood 65 to 75 gallon tank is the minimum.

[TheLankster]

A 29 gallon tank is not suitable to grow out 6 juveniles.To raise 6 Stendker to adulthood 65 to 75 gallon tank is the minimum.

Oh oh oh...let me clarify..

i plan to grow them out until there are a pair or two then separate them to their own tanks.. I plan to keep the ones that dont breed in a new tank for display

In the end i just want the juvies to grow to a decent size and then when it gets overcrowded ill upgrade/switch tanks no prob.

[TheLankster]

1. No you do not need a sump, HOB or sponge filters are fine.
2. No, parrot fish are more aggressive than discus and will out compete them for food and territory.
3. Quarantine is always necessary, not only for the existing fish but for the discus you are going to put in which should ideally be no less than 6. Discus have more sensitive immune systems than other cichlids and tropical fish. There are germs, bacteria and parasites everywhere in our and the fish's world. So, when you have a fish with a weakened immune system and add the stress of buying and moving a fish...there is a very strong chance its immune system will get even weaker making it susceptible...to ALL of those things that exist around them all of the time but wouldn't usually affect them because they are healthy and strong....kinda like when people have full-blown AIDS, their immune systems are compromised and basically just about anything will make them sick or kill them (sorry if the example upsets anyone, may not have been the best example)
4. IMO- salt, metronazidole, kanamycin sulfate, furan-2(notrofurazone err something I think its name is), levamisole/or flubendazole for fenbendazole, and praziquantel----search them on the forum for more info.

Good luck and remember, to keep these fish healthy and happy you need to feed well, water change a lot (I do daily 75% minimum on a 100gallon---I have juveniles), and be patient

Good luck and welcome to the best discus forum online IMO

This leads me to another question...no salt? right?

Another about quarantine..So. even if the tank is brand new cycled water, no fish, daily WCs, levels clear...still have to quarantine?

[cedar]

if everything is new and cleaned and cycled and you get all from the same place at the same time you will not have to quarantine but do not add anything new without quarantine. ask lots of questions, and read,read and read some more all the info you can find on this forum....it is excellent!! I have learned and am still learning so much in the year and a half I have had discus. enjoy!!

[Akili]

Oh oh oh...let me clarify..

i plan to grow them out until there are a pair or two then separate them to their own tanks.. I plan to keep the ones that dont breed in a new tank for display

In the end i just want the juvies to grow to a decent size and then when it gets overcrowded ill upgrade/switch tanks no prob.Will not work, general rule is 10 gallons per one discus.They will outgrow the tank in two months time


This leads me to another question...no salt? right?

Another about quarantine..So. even if the tank is brand new cycled water, no fish, daily WCs, levels clear...still have to quarantine?If you get the six juveniles from the same source then just have to keep an eye on them for next 6 to 8 weeks and count that as your quarantine period

[TheLankster]

Will not work, general rule is 10 gallons per one discus.They will outgrow the tank in two months time

If you get the six juveniles from the same source then just have to keep an eye on them for next 6 to 8 weeks and count that as your quarantine period

So those small fish will really get to back for a 40 gal breeder that big?

I'm gonna get 5 Juvies. 2.5

[MD.David]

If this is your first round at doing a grow out do not get 2½inch juvies, for someone starting out it's really not forgiving on any mistakes. If you run into a problem, your going to waist your money.
I would go with a group of 4"-4½ inch, grow them out huge, do daily water changes and high quality food. They will get nice and fat and you will be incredibly happy, then if you have a pair, have some fun with a 27 gallon cube tank, but when you order your group, order your entire grow out stock at one time from the same source, and never allow other fish contamination in that tank, which means never buy another discus to go with that group.
Trying to grow out from small will be very very difficult for a new comer to discus growing.
•the only other fish I put with discus is a bristlenose plecostomus, and thats it.... Do only bear bottom and sponge filter only, this will help you vacuum daily and keep proper tank hygiene. HOB and canister filters allows lazy tank and filter hygiene, (don't get me wrong it can make a tank super clean and very healthy,) however this is for an experience Aquariumists. I'm a big promoter of sponge filters.


Best of luck and cheers,

Welcome to simply discus!

[cedar]

Hi Lankster, I too started out with 2.5" and md.david is right. they are very sensitive. I still have some of my originals but they are stunted and I'm sorry for it. If I had of listened at the beginning I would have had a lot less losses. I was going by budget and should have spent the bit extra for that extra inch. good luck, discus are amazing and this forum is awesome. ask lots of questions and have fun! water change, water change, and water change some more!!


sue

[Ryan925]

Hi Lankster, I too started out with 2.5" and md.david is right. they are very sensitive. I still have some of my originals but they are stunted and I'm sorry for it. If I had of listened at the beginning I would have had a lot less losses. I was going by budget and should have spent the bit extra for that extra inch. good luck, discus are amazing and this forum is awesome. ask lots of questions and have fun! water change, water change, and water change some more!!


sue

Second that

[TheLankster]

Ok so a few new developments over night...my 29g tank had a crack and started leaking. So now I'm buying a whole new tank altogether for my discus (was the plan either way).

Just some follow up questions:

So I should grow out the bigger discus? I really just don't have the money and I know the Juvies will not be perfect In your guys eyes but as long as I keep them alive and eating (and they eventually breed) I'm happy. Cuz that's the main goal here. I've kept a lot of fish in my past and I know most of what goes into caring, maybe not discus though but I'm learning as much as possible.

What is the best filter/heater for a discus tank? after this whole fiasco I'm just going to get all new gear as well. Let me know what you think. Chances are I'm just gonna pick up a 40 gallon breeder from petco (on sale for $40!). Because anything bigger is too big for me and my roommates room next year.

[cedar]

a 40g is not big enough for 6-8 discus, I know you want to stay small but then discus might not be for you. I understand how it looks deceiving to see the little 2.5" and think they will be fine but if you are doing 75-100% water change daily and just bare bottom and a sponge filter they can grow an inch in 4-6 weeks. you will stunt them. please read a lot of the beginner stuff in this forum and you will see.discus are awesome but you have to do it right or you will have nothing but troubles, I've been there, just my very humble opinion. good luck in whatever you decide.

[Akili]

a 40g is not big enough for 6-8 discus, I know you want to stay small but then discus might not be for you. I understand how it looks deceiving to see the little 2.5" and think they will be fine but if you are doing 75-100% water change daily and just bare bottom and a sponge filter they can grow an inch in 4-6 weeks. you will stunt them. please read a lot of the beginner stuff in this forum and you will see.discus are awesome but you have to do it right or you will have nothing but troubles, I've been tand inhere, just my very humble opinion. good luck in whatever you decide.This ^^^^^^ Lankster look at keeping some other fish till you can have a reasonable size tank and in the meantime learn as much as you can about "Discus"

[TheLankster]

a 40g is not big enough for 6-8 discus, I know you want to stay small but then discus might not be for you. I understand how it looks deceiving to see the little 2.5" and think they will be fine but if you are doing 75-100% water change daily and just bare bottom and a sponge filter they can grow an inch in 4-6 weeks. you will stunt them. please read a lot of the beginner stuff in this forum and you will see.discus are awesome but you have to do it right or you will have nothing but troubles, I've been there, just my very humble opinion. good luck in whatever you decide.

The real number I was gonna get is 5 juvies. So you guys are telling me 5 Juvies will grow outta a 40 Gb that fast? For some reason I feel you guys may just be overestimating or something

These are small fish. I should have like 4-6 months until I have to get a new size tank for them

[Akili]

Yes it will I got 6 one and half ones mid April, housed in and 35 Gallon tank and this weekend are being moved to a 75 as they are more then 4 inches.

[TheLankster]

Yes it will I got 6 one and half ones mid April, housed in and 35 Gallon tank and this weekend are being moved to a 75 as they are more then 4 inches.

I can move them to a bigger tank. I'm gonna hold off cuz of $$$ for now but I will eventually do this

[Akili]

I can move them to a bigger tank. I'm gonna hold off cuz of $$$ for now but I will eventually do thisA good decision, makes sense if you are going to do it, do right the first time.

[TheLankster]

A good decision, makes sense if you are going to do it, do right the first time.

So I need to make a list of essentials, what type of filter and brand do you recommend? Sump/canister/etc??

[Rapture]

You can at least get the a 55-gallon tank from the Petco sale instead of a 40, and grow out 6 discus in it, assuming that you will be changing water daily and maintaining whatever filter you decide to use, regularly. I agree, growing out discus is a learning curve if you're used to less aquarium maintenance, or are a beginner like I am. I lost 3 of my small discus from my original group of 5, but currently have a group of 7 that are all doing well. It takes some trial and error, especially if you do not follow all of the advice here. I'd say one of the most important things is to make sure that your filter has a good amount of beneficial bacteria before adding the fish. Once you get the fish you will feed them pretty heavily and it will take its toll on the cycle. Large water changes are best for the water quality as far as cleanliness, but can stress the fish if you do not age your water. If you decide not to age your water, you may have some issues until you figure out what amount works. I've also seen people have issues on this forum with their tap water due to weird events that cause the city to treat the water differently, so watch out for that, if you do end up having problems and can't figure out why.

Getting 4"+ fish is definitely more forgiving since they've already made it past some critical stages of development. Getting smaller fish is a bigger learning experience, and you can end up with some really stunted fish while you figure things out. Either way, you'll probably spend about the same amount of money in the long run making up for mistakes made if you go for the smaller fish, but in the end it's a personal decision. You'll want to read a lot of threads here to get a better idea of what to expect.

[chuckiesmalls]

yes, no salt unless. A. you have a bloat issue with discus and you use a Epsom salt bath to aid in digestion. And you would use traditional salt as a dip for backterial issues

Yes, too your second questions. I know it may be confusing but QT has nothing to do with the quality of water. BC no matter how pristine the H2O is....there are still going to be bacteria, parasites, etc. in the water. When a fish is moved during purchasing it has a weakened immune system. These two things combined can lead to serious problems.

...so don't think as qt=clean water etc. QT is a resting period you allow for your fish to build up its strength before adding it to an existing population of fish.

So if you get 6 Stendkers and put them in a new tank by themselves.....no need for a QT...but you should have extra equipment and a temporary qt (tote, bucket) that would suffice in the event one of your fish and not all start to exhibit symptoms of sickness