Looking for advice on return pump for Eshopps R-100 Sump/refugium

[Jenene]

Hello! I am hoping for advice on setting up my sump for a 75 gallon. I have had a tropical community tank for most of my life and decided to go for a Discus tank. I have been researching and learning as much as I can and just purchased a corner flow 75 gallon being too chicken to try and drill my old tank. I have been having a really hard time trying to find out the best pump for the Eshopps R-100. I am restricted with the size because the previos tank is built into a wall and the cabinet has support beams restricting the size that I could place a sump. I have watched hours of Youtube videos and read too many blogs with very little gained about specifics regarding flows in and out of the sump. I do not want to get a return pump that is too strong. The tank itself is rated for 700 gph but I think the sump ideally only does less than half of that? Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.

[gators111]

The hot new thing in this area are DC pumps, because they are very quiet and most come with a controller to adjust output. However, having setup a 90g that came with a Mag 950 I got off of craigslist a few months back, the best advice I got from a reefer friend was to buy a good gate valve to put on the return line. That way you can adjust the flow accurately and it won't seize up over time. Don't use a cheap ball valve from Home depot or something. They seize up after awhile and you can't accurately adjust the output. Bulk Reef supply makes good vids on setting up a sump. Just remember they tend to push the top end stuff they just "happen" to sell. As far as flow rate, I have gathered that about 5-6 times turnover per hour is good for discus. I have no idea what mine is. I just watch zero in on a particle in the water and watch it travel over the bottom. I shoot for a slow, but steady movement, since discus like to feed off the bottom.

[Jenene]

Thanks so much. Great advice. Will definitely get the gate valve. Make a lot of sense. Learning a lot by watching videos and reading the forums.

[gators111]

Almost forgot, if you do get a pump without any rubber feet, like mine. Place one of those silicone hot pads from the kitchen under it to help with noise. Just make sure it doesn't have any anti-bacterial stuff in it.

[Jenene]

Thanks! That is a great tip. I starting looking into the pumps with control valves and they were pretty expensive. Although I know it is a very important part of the system I didn't want to buy something that would be substandard. I found this one on Amazon for $68 and it seemed to have gotten really good reviews. EHEIM Compact+ Pump 2000 for up to 528 US Gallons (2000L). I am limited by the size of the return compartment in the refugium. Any thoughts? I have so much to learn my mind is swimming. So much controversy over things like RO water vs aged tap, sterilizers, buffer or not to buffer... Thank goodness this forum is here!

[gators111]

Pump sounds good. As for the other stuff, I tend to swim against the prevailing stream on this site when it comes to water. I use reconstituted RO/DI water, due to having ph of 8.2 and 130ish TDS, which is very high in phosphates from city water. Gotta love living in the capital of African cichlid farms. When I started out, I would get huge algae blooms if I used tap water added back to get ratios right. I keep my fish in 6.0 ph and 70-80 TDS and use RO right and discus buffer which has some phosphate, but not nearly at the levels of tap. I keep the ph low in order to only have to do 50% water changes once a week. Due to ammonia staying as ammonium in water under 6.5 and thus not converting into nitrates as quickly. As you can tell from this post, you will become a quasi-expert in water parameters. I highly suggest to read aquaculture articles online. IFAS at the Univ. of Florida is a good starting point. Instead of getting IMO's or IME's, you will get scientifically researched and tested advice. (I won't even go into beefheart feeding and my thoughts on that, hint non-water soluble fats and lipids wreck havoc of fish livers) Anyways, welcome to discus keeping. It is fun and rewarding, especially when you see your first wrigglers and watch them break off and start feeding off their parents for the first time. And the good feeling of always being asked by people "are those saltwater fish?". Keeping discus can be easy, as long as you give them the environment the have evolved to live in over 1000's of years, and not try to shove the square peg into the round hole.

[rickztahone]

Check out my signature for my 75g setup with sump. I use an eheim 1260 modified and couldn't be happier. Eheim is known for being an absolute workhorse. i have 2 and I couldn't agree more. DC pumps are also good, I bought 2 of those as well but those are still sitting dry. Jebao has a new line of DC pumps which are supposed to be really good.

[Jenene]

This is so funny! Every time I find an answer I have more questions. By the way, any time you want to go off topic with something you have learned ex. beef heart feedings feel free. I am a sponge at this point. Bring it on...

So my local water has TDS of 180 but the phosphates are very low .05. I have never had an issue with algae. So do I need RO water? I am keeping the aged water in a Brute barrel next to the tank. I love the idea of removing all the bad stuff but I don't think my husband (who has been great about this project so far) will love have trash barrels full of water in the kitchen or bathroom or would be keen to installing a permanent system in the basement. So I hope I can manage well with the aged tap until I move on to breeding which I am sure I will eventually. The RO seems to be my breaking point though. I guess my issue now is do I buffer with peat moss in the sump or let the fish adjust to the higher PH? I want to do the best that I can for them while still remaining married....

[Jenene]

You have a great set up and your helpers are adorable. I did end up with the Eheim. It will be here Sunday. Ready to start the set up after that! I am just switching my community fish into it and seeding it with as much as I can from the old filter (bio balls and foam) and using 50% of their current water. Then after it stabilizes my plan is to slowly increase the temp. Once it gets too warm for the community fish our aqua shop has agreed to take them. Just have to time the arrival of the new fish so my bacteria levels stay level. Since everyone is healthy I thought this would be better than starting from scratch.

[rickztahone]

You can use straight up tap water, no problem, especially since you are aging it.

As far as the seeded media, you are going to get very mixed reviews here. Personally, I would not have started with media that came from any other fish. I always worry about stuff transferring over to my discus. My preferred choice, especially if buying from a breeder is to ask them to send a seeded sponge that was already in the tank with the discus. This way it is an insta-start colony with bacteria they already had in their tank.

Just my 2 cents.

[Jenene]

That makes sense but as I said before a question answered leads to more questions! I wake up in the middle of the night and Google stuff which leads to more uncertainty!
First and foremost if I did that I wouldn't I be basically putting the discus in an un-cycled tank if the bacteria comes at the same time the fish do? I had always been taught to not even add the water from the bag- wouldn't the sponge be possibly worse? I would think even the best breeders could have an issue spring up. I have seen people start the tank with bottled products and then feed the tank to get it going. Also my sand (Carib Sea Moonlight) has some starters in it.
Also is it any different than adding fish to a pre-existing tank? People use hardy fish to cycle tanks as well-an entirely different debate! (The ones I already own and will be re-housing, Tin Foil Barb and Giant Danios are ones I have heard recommended for cycling) That filter would be already established as well. Sorry! But I really need to gather as much information as I can. I really appreciate everyone's patience.

[DJW]

Hi Jenene. Your straight tap water, at TDS 180, should be fine. If you get a seeded sponge from the same place as the discus, the fish won't be exposed to new and possibly pathogenic bacteria since the filter will be coming from the same water as the fish.

It is the filter that is cycled, not the 'tank'. The sponge will be seeded with nitrifying bacteria but won't necessarily contain enough for the number and size of the fish...so you change lots of water until the filter bacteria grow to meet the load.

Another method is fishless cycling. You would need to get rid of the existing fish and feed ammonia to the filter for a few weeks prior to getting the new fish. This is the safest method (because the filter has its full capacity on day one) ...but you have to wait longer for the tank to be ready.

[Jenene]

Thanks so much. I have no issues waiting longer to cycle the tank or water changes. I am ready to do what ever is needed to keep these fish as healthy as possible. If I do go the ammonia way. Do you know how much would you add per day for a 75 gallon with a 24" X 16" X 12" sump/refugium? I guess it depends on the breeder if they supply the sponge on request. I suppose that is a good question to ask before I place any orders. We have no breeders within driving distance that I am aware of unfortunately...