Stendker Grow Out - First Time Discus Keeper

[Aquaman6410]

Hi all. My name is Bryan and I've already had the chance to get help from many of the members on this forum. I have to say this site has some of the best members that all are loaded with experience and knowledge. I also really appreciate the honesty of many of the members and telling it like it is. Well, a little background info. I'm an experienced hobbyist with many years working with planted tanks which is my main passion. I've done High tech and low tech. I've also enjoyed keeping apistogramma and dwarf cichlids, various freshwater shrimp, and angelfish. I'm new to the discus keeping world but have done tons of reading, mainly on this forum. I've always wanted discus and they are truly one of the most beautiful fish in my opinion, probably my favorite. I never kept discus as I was always too busy with planted tanks and didn't want to attempt discus and do it poorly. I recently moved and decided to take down my last low tech planted tank. Once I settled into the new house, I needed to have a tank up fast! I decided it was time for Discus. After much research and contemplating or being nervous of trying something new, I decided to finally jump in and pursue keeping my favorite fish. So lets get into the tank and plans....

My plan for Discus was to start with 9 Stendker Discus at 3" - 3+" in size and put them in a bare bottom 75 to grow out to a larger size. Eventually, I want to move them to a 125 or a 150. I painted the bottom of my 75 a sand color so it would look a little better. Back was already painted black from previous planted. setup I used it for. The equipment includes 2 (250watt Eheim Jager, although only 1 is actively on. The other was just calibrated and readied for when the fish go to a bigger tank), 2 large sponge filters run by a Fusion 700 air pump, and an Aquaclear 110. The tank was fishless with pure ammonia until all tested well.

My garage was setup for aging water for the discus. I have (2) 44 gallon brute cans and one 32 gallon brute. I am only using the (2) 44 gallon ones currently and fill them with water from the cold tap. (I have a spigot in my garage that is connected to the cold water supply). I am in South Florida so cold water right now is about 80 degrees on average in my garage. I have two 150 watt Eheim heaters to heat water (if needed) to 84 degrees or close to it. One heater in each brute. Each brute also has two air stones pumped by some petco brand air pump and circulated with a Koralia 450gph pump. I pump the aged water from my garage to my living room where the tank is with a Danner Mag Drive 9.5.

I made a homemade beefheart mix that contains shrimp, tilapia, peas, spirulina, egg yolk, spinach, and astaxathin. It came out a bit green, think too much spirulina but we will see if they eat it. I also bought them Cobalt Discus Hans Flake, DiskusGold from Al, and blackworms also from Al. I figured this is a nice variety and should be a high quality diet.

Now the final piece, the fish. I keep the tank around 84 degrees and everything is connected to an Apex Jr with temp probe/controller built in. I am going to try to change water daily if possible, at least 50% a day seems to be a decent amount. Maybe more or less depending on how things go. I plan to feed beefheart mix once a day at night before their water change.

I ended up with 9 discus from Hans and order them at the 3+" size he offers. They arrived yesterday, 8/12/16 and I purchased the following:

(2) Brilliant Turq
(1) Blue Snakeskin
(1) Cobalt
(2) Checkboard
(1) Scribbelt
(1) Pigeon Snakeskin
(1) Fire Red

The first day they spent with lights off. Today lights are on and they are skittish but slowly warming up. First feeding of blackworms was slow. Only about 3 discus ate a couple worms that fell of the cube a stuck on the glass. Still all very nervous. Removed remaining worms. Second feeding was half a cube stuck to the glass. The cobalt was the bravest and ripped it off the glass. It broke apart and the scribbelt joined in for blackworms. They all started to slowly eat as the worms got close to them. The fire red was hiding most of this time. Finally he came out and started eating from the floating chunk of blackworms. Success! The fire red is still very shy and is one of the smallest but I felt good he finally came out to eat. After this feeding, they are all a bit more curious in the tank and hiding much less. They still have moments were they feel nervous and huddle up, but they are getting better. We will see how beefheart goes later as well as their first water change. Hopefully, they remain calm and we progress.

I will leave you all with pictures and a video of them. Thank you for reading this all and thank you for following along. Please give me any advice and words of wisdom as I grow out these discus. I will try to update this as much as possible and use this journal to track their progress/growth.

Thank you,
Bryan

http://i.imgur.com/nNVl6Nw.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/QtqEA8L.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/B4em1Ku.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/XzPV30n.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/xXOMWHC.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/RpvC7Ss.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/78W7Jw3.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/MMx91TN.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/GWln5Xq.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/FjPDNFK.jpg

https://youtu.be/aFryuuSEFiU (If you really wanted, the youtube video quality can be set to 1080p 60FPS at this is what I recorded it in)

[Rapture]

Congrats on your new fish! I am also growing out some Stendkers for the first time, although I have much less experience than you in fish keeping. It has been a cool experience and I look forward to seeing yours grow up.

[two utes]

Hi Bryan. Welcome to discus keeping. It looks like all your patience, and research has definitely paid off. You are off to a flying start, and will end up with really nice fish. I can't wait to see the progress of this group, and when you finally move them to your display tank down the track...l just know its going to be good.

Just be aware that some of the discus in that group may or may not end up with peppering if your display tank has a black background and dark sand. I realize that your tank is already painted, but maybe go for white sand instead of a darker color. I'm by no means an expert about peppering, but have read lots about it on here. I'm sure you will find all the information you seek on here.

Good luck with it all

[Aquaman6410]

Thank you guys! I was worried about the black background causing peppering on the pigeons too. The back was already painted and it was not coming off easily so I ultimately left it. I painted the bottom off white and try to keep the tank well lit. So far, very minimal peppering. It seems the fire red has the most but not much in my opinion. I'm definitely going with a light background and substrate one the move since they tank will be bought new.

[Dhavalsp]

nice fish...that fire red does not have much peppering IMO...the amount being displayed now should subside in a week or two...good luck...

[Aquaman6410]

So I figured I'd give an update for the end of the weekend. The group is still skittish but getting better. The cobalt and scribbelt seem to be the most outgoing right now and warming up to me. Feedings have been interesting. I feel they don't want to eat that much. I give Al's blackworms in the morning. They only eat about a quarter cube, the shy ones still seem to not be that hungry. They pick on the worms that break off and float away. The cobalt got aggressive towards the others today and was bullying the others away from the cube on the glass. I eventually took it off and broke it up to give others a chance if they wanted. The cobalt wasn't even eating anymore, he just wanted to guard the cube. Afternoon we tried the discus hans flake. They picked at it as it sank but were not crazy about it. Again, the cobalt was the first to investigate the food. Finally,in the evening before their water change, I fed my beefheart mix with filters off. This is the second day I tried the mix and so so results. If you've read my other posts, you know my mix came out green from too much spirulina, peas, and spinach even though it contains 1.5 lbs of beefheart, 1lb tilapia, and 1 lb of shrimp. They attack it as it falls down in the tank but quickly start spitting it every where and seem not too thrilled. The only two I noticed that actually swallowed visible chunks were the two checkerboards. Hopefully, they all accept it. The wife wasn't thrilled about making the first batch so if this doesn't work out, I may just have to purchase some frozen mix from hans. Overall, I feel they aren't eating enough but they did make a decent amount of waste in my opinion so they must be eating something. Here's to hoping they start eating something vigorously soon!

Well, I did a 60% water change tonight and removed all visible waste. They still seem to hate water changes a lot. To end the weekend, I will leave you all with pictures of them hiding during the water change, just to give an example of their current temperment. Then the last two picture are of them 10 minutes after the water change. Have a great night all! Bryan

https://i.imgur.com/apfYi8N.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/1NueqZA.jpg


After water change (10 minutes after)

https://i.imgur.com/urNTwtN.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/mdHm6Lu.jpg

[Ryan925]

So I figured I'd give an update for the end of the weekend. The group is still skittish but getting better. The cobalt and scribbelt seem to be the most outgoing right now and warming up to me. Feedings have been interesting. I feel they don't want to eat that much. I give Al's blackworms in the morning. They only eat about a quarter cube, the shy ones still seem to not be that hungry. They pick on the worms that break off and float away. The cobalt got aggressive towards the others today and was bullying the others away from the cube on the glass. I eventually took it off and broke it up to give others a chance if they wanted. The cobalt wasn't even eating anymore, he just wanted to guard the cube. Afternoon we tried the discus hans flake. They picked at it as it sank but were not crazy about it. Again, the cobalt was the first to investigate the food. Finally,in the evening before their water change, I fed my beefheart mix with filters off. This is the second day I tried the mix and so so results. If you've read my other posts, you know my mix came out green from too much spirulina, peas, and spinach even though it contains 1.5 lbs of beefheart, 1lb tilapia, and 1 lb of shrimp. They attack it as it falls down in the tank but quickly start spitting it every where and seem not too thrilled. The only two I noticed that actually swallowed visible chunks were the two checkerboards. Hopefully, they all accept it. The wife wasn't thrilled about making the first batch so if this doesn't work out, I may just have to purchase some frozen mix from hans. Overall, I feel they aren't eating enough but they did make a decent amount of waste in my opinion so they must be eating something. Here's to hoping they start eating something vigorously soon!

Well, I did a 60% water change tonight and removed all visible waste. They still seem to hate water changes a lot. To end the weekend, I will leave you all with pictures of them hiding during the water change, just to give an example of their current temperment. Then the last two picture are of them 10 minutes after the water change. Have a great night all! Bryan

https://i.imgur.com/apfYi8N.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/1NueqZA.jpg


After water change (10 minutes after)

https://i.imgur.com/urNTwtN.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/mdHm6Lu.jpg

Not to fear. Soon you will have to push them out of the way when doing water changes. I've had my fish for 4 months and I can't hardly stick my arm in the tank without the biting my hand or congrigating around my hand.

[Aquaman6410]

I can't wait for that! So far all but 1 seem to be less scared of me. They still hate daily water changes currently and hide behind the sponge filters but they seem to be more outgoing before food time. The fire red is the most timid. He tends to hide a lot. The others will come out and explore around the tank a bit during the day while the fire red mainly prefers to sit scared behind the sponge filter. I feel bad for him.

Blackworms seem to be a big hit so far. They eat those pretty decently, only about a quarter of a cube but they eat it.

My green beefheart mix...still can't tell. They seem to attack it as it falls but it appears they just tear it up and spit most of it out. They leave a ton left over. I feel like they aren't eating enough but I'm being persistent. Really wondering if my mix is really just lacking. I really just don't want to stunt them. My goal is to do whatever I need to get them to be nice large round healthy discus. I'll keep everyone posted as I progress.

I don't mean to write a lot. I just want to write as many updates as possible so I track my entire journey of getting started with discus and growing them out. I hope for this journal to help others new to discus and thinking about trying or are just starting out.

Bryan

[Ryan925]

I can't wait for that! So far all but 1 seem to be less scared of me. They still hate daily water changes currently and hide behind the sponge filters but they seem to be more outgoing before food time. The fire red is the most timid. He tends to hide a lot. The others will come out and explore around the tank a bit during the day while the fire red mainly prefers to sit scared behind the sponge filter. I feel bad for him.

Blackworms seem to be a big hit so far. They eat those pretty decently, only about a quarter of a cube but they eat it.

My green beefheart mix...still can't tell. They seem to attack it as it falls but it appears they just tear it up and spit most of it out. They leave a ton left over. I feel like they aren't eating enough but I'm being persistent. Really wondering if my mix is really just lacking. I really just don't want to stunt them. My goal is to do whatever I need to get them to be nice large round healthy discus. I'll keep everyone posted as I progress.

I don't mean to write a lot. I just want to write as many updates as possible so I track my entire journey of getting started with discus and growing them out. I hope for this journal to help others new to discus and thinking about trying or are just starting out.

Bryan

Don't worry they will come around. I used to have to walk slowly passed my tank trying not to have them dart around. It's in a pretty high traffic area of my kitchen. Now my son runs passed and it doesn't even phase them.

Be patient and it will pay off. Eventually they will recognize you as soon as you come in and start going crazy coming to see you waiting for food.

Mine see me come in the front door from work and immediately are at the front glass waiting for a meal. When my wife walks passed tank they pay no attention lol. They know the hand that feeds lol

[Rapture]

Beefheart mix is definitely messy, that's why using a bare bottom tank and changing water is important. I'm not sure if you used any garlic in your mix, but maybe that would help with the flavor?

[farebox]

Just keep up what you are doing, after awhile they'll come around and start eating like pigs, I have Stendker from Hans that I grew out from 2.5" to about 5". I set the tank temp to 85F and did 50%+ WC daily in an 55G BB tank, fed 4 x daily of Al's FDBW, Hans Flakes, and BH mix. Hang in there some very nice looking fish you got there. https://youtu.be/9CfIiZECCXg

[Aquaman6410]

Farebox, what beefheart mix did you make or use? I can't tell if they like mine. I feel like they don't really eat it as much as just spit it out. They do love Al's FDBW for sure though!

[scrappinjaime]

Truly beautiful fish, keep us updated!

[Aquaman6410]

Alright, so quick update. Its been a few days. Everyone seems to be doing fine. FDBW are a favorite by far, they beg for them and eat them fast. Beefheart mix is not a favorite. They attack it but mainly just seem to spit it out everywhere and make a mess. Not really a favorite by me either. I'm trying to get them to eat flakes to but they don't get real excited for that. They pick at them if I put some in and walk away. If I stand there, they all beg at the glass for blackworms.

Now when I say they all beg, I mean all but 1. The fire red still just likes to stay near the sponge filters in the corner. It will seem to eat and come out now and then but mainly hides. The other 8 come to the glass when they are hungry and I'm there. It has been a week today only but I'm just worried about the fire red. He is very reclusive from me and the others and doesn't seem to be progressing/adapting like the others. I hope all is well with him.

We also seem to have some aggression developing and have a leader. The blue snakeskin likes to guard food from the others for himself. He will chase others but no one stands up to him. The Blue SS definitely is the most dominant of the 9 for right now.

The biggest eater that I notice at the moment is the Cobalt. It seems like it is able to put down twice the amount of food as the others and he will take worms right from my hand. He is not even the largest but is definitely the hungriest.

That's it for now. New pictures soon.

Bryan

EDIT: Pictures of them eating FDBW below. Please read the post above about the Fire Red. After these pictures and once most worms were gone, the Fire Red eventually came out but didn't eat any worms. He chose to just pick little specs of worms or whatever and eat that. Not sure why he is not like the others. Just watching him to make sure nothing is wrong. See pics below of how they all eat now except the Fire Red. He is in his typically spot.

http://i.imgur.com/AhfxRaY.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/BF6dwpG.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/Nx7wEA6.jpg

[Dhavalsp]

good to know things are going well...for the fire red, the right option is to wait it out...but I think adding a little Epsom salt may help...wait for some of the experienced members to chime in.

In order to make them eat beef heart mix, hold back feeding for a day, offer beef heart in the morning the next day and siphon it out in 30 mins...then again offer it in the evening..most probably you will not have to siphon it out in the evening...

I have a SS X Flanchen from Han's who is a picky eater....that one has some or the other drama going every 3-4 months...it is a tad bit smaller than other fish but no other health problem...whenever it drops all the drama and starts eating regularly for 3-4 weeks (it has happened twice in last 6 months) it somewhat catches up in size with others...

good luck!

[Aquaman6410]

So here is more of the Fire Red. I took this video to show everyone eating worms like crazy except the Fire Red. You can also see the Scribbelt down near the bottom too. He used to be more aggressive with food but seems to have a decreasing appetite. I'm hoping the Fire Red doesn't have something that is spreading. I've had Angels with hex before and this is starting to remind me of that which is not a comforting thought. I also have two pictures of the Fire Red where you can see the feces being passed. Let me know what you all think.

Be sure to view it in the highest quality on youtube to see the video best. You can watch the fire red take a worm, chew it for a bit and eventually spit it back out.
https://youtu.be/j8yukU4QLts

Here is the picture as mentioned:
http://i.imgur.com/JZrb209.jpg?2

[Rapture]

Sorry you're having some issues. I had a similar problem when I added the last discus to my tank. Mine are Stendkers sold by a local discus store, and the owner gave me some advice that helped after a few days, although it's not consistent advice that would be given on this forum. IMO, you should ask Hans for his recommendation, since I'm sure that the price of the fish includes support from the seller.

[Rapture]

I saw that you are thinking about treating with metro. Metro did not help mine that was acting this way. What helped mine was temp increase, small (30%) daily water changes, salt, and offering bloodworms. I don't think it goes along with most of the info here, though. I think it took a couple of days before the affected fish started trying the blood worms and spitting them out, then a couple days later started eating them, and eventually began to eat the beef heart mix. I also had luck feeding after a water change instead of before, because of the lack of bullying after the water change.

[sayid]

I am by no means expert but i think too much spirulina makes the BH mix a bit bitter for them also i put some gelatin in the mix ,just follow the instruction on the packet it just give the mix a bit of body so it does not go every where with the first bit . I put a multivitamin tablet powdered to the mix .
HTH

[farebox]

I used beefheart, all fat/veins trimmed away, fresh shrimp, fresh Alaskan salmon. Can of green peas with skin removed, chopped some blanched spinach, garlic gloves, and a half banana, also added some crushed multi vitamins to mix, Han's discus flakes, and paprika. Into food chopper until well mixed, frozen in an zip lock bag. Mix did not broke apart too much in tank and all my fish ate this stuff.

[Aquaman6410]

It has been two weeks this past Saturday. I took some pictures that day that I will share at the end of this post. I also took a video today during beefheart feeding, well towards the end of it, and mainly focused on the Fire Red to see if anyone else would be concerned on his behavior. He has improved a bit it seems but still no where near the personalities of the others. The others bite my hand just trying to stick a cube of worms on the glass. The video can be watched in 1080p and shows the Fire Red passing feces which look questionable to me but maybe it is normal for a fish who doesn't eat near as much as the others. The fish mainly grazes but tends to spit out a lot but seems to keep in the tiniest pieces it finds. I never see this fish with his belly visibly full.

Anyway, every one seems to be fine. Water changes seem to not be a favorite for them. They have gotten better but tend to be very calm after a water change. Don't know if my chloramines are causing any issue since they are 3.5ppm and show as 1 ppm of ammonia on a test. I still age my water 24 hours and then condition with prime/safe as it is going in the tank. I dose in the tank for the entire tank volume. I'll keep up the daily water changes since everything seems to be okay. I change 50% minimum to about 80%. Depends on how messy the tank appears to be, food load that day, etc but never any less than 50% (honestly more like 60% since I pump back in at least one 44 gallon brute can of water every night)

Good news is the discus appear to eat my highly green beefheart mix I made by accident. They rip it apart and eat a ton since there isn't much left on the bottom of the tank after about 5 minutes. It has a lot of spirulina, peas, and spinach that give it the green color (didn't mean to add so much :p) so it should be pretty healthy I would think. It was still made with 2lbs of beefheart, 1lb shrimp, and a 1lb of tilapia so it should balance out I guess. But the good news is they readily eat it and seem to really like it. Of course they also love to eat Al's FDBW and also the biopigment FDBWs. They like the Hans Cobalt flake but not as much as the other food options like blackworms and beefheart mix. I guess you can't blame them.

Side note is that my one checkerboard as been bloated and swam off balance twice about a week apart. It happened after beefheart feeding and noticed it once the water was changed. The temp has been higher to about 87 per Han's recommendation to get the Fire Red to eat. Don't know if that played into it but some epsom salt fixed him both times and the fish was fine in the morning. Temperature is on its way back down to 85 since I didn't notice a huge difference in the Fire Red to keep the temp that high.

Well, my last point is growth. It has only been two weeks. I don't know if I can see growth yet but it has only been two weeks and I stare at them every chance I get so I'm a bad judge. They eat twice a day on average. Usually FDBW cube before work and then beefheart mix before water change after work. Weekends they get flake in the morning, FDBW a little later, more FDBW or flake in afternoon, and beefheart mix at night before water change. Is twice a day during the work week enough with daily water changes? Hopefully so. I really want to grow them out right but I do understand this is my first attempt at growing out discus so I may not be perfect at this yet.

Please don't mind the ton of pictures I'm going to dump Also feel free to watch the video and let me know what you think of the Fire Red's behavior and feces seen in the video. Would you be concerned?Until the next big journal update, thanks all.

Video Link: https://youtu.be/mQq07kMBck8

http://i.imgur.com/jYdNllj.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/Ow3CPoo.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/pgRB0bG.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/tELwYmC.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/PI6VMPH.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/E0sCQ9C.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/E5rlhGM.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/tokGaJG.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/UFaZYZy.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/aYKDT5c.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/A7oZmHM.jpg

Fish was directly under bright light which made him look really turquoise
http://i.imgur.com/disxziF.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/6OcnoHv.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/m5LSA39.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/djIQ5CB.jpg

[Rapture]

I am feeding beef heart twice daily and mine are growing per the Stendker chart.

[Aquaman6410]

Soooo.... I've been busy but here is an update for 11 months of owning these guys. I did end up losing one turq many months back, just stopped eating and never really grew. I didn't let it discourage me since the others were eating and living just fine. So here I am, 11 months in. The Cobalt is a male and the blue snakeskin is a female...I know this as they have laid eggs once last month! Exciting! Made me feel like I am doing something right. I wanted to post some pictures (rough quick cell phone pictures) to share and see if everyone thinks they look like they are progressing well. It was hard to snap quick pictures as I can't get close to the tank without them moving to the top and getting excited thinking more food is coming. Let me know what you all think!

http://i.imgur.com/lXa5WFX.jpg

The smallest of the group but still a tough guy who loves food.
http://i.imgur.com/3LC67C7.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/y02BGF2.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/WgTTzI6.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/18T9mNA.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/xx2pS88.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/vHbrbkl.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/T4xM3CZ.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/pUANwrc.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/39Uwwd0.jpg

[Davidzil]

Nice job. what size are they?

[Aquaman6410]

The largest is at least 5", maybe a little over that

[CliffsDiscus]

Good job, but slightly under size. I noticed the heads
are skinny and starting to developing the saddle nose, more feeding will help.
Good Luck,
Cliff

[Ryan925]

Good job, but slightly under size. I noticed the heads
are skinny and starting to developing the saddle nose, more feeding will help.
Good Luck,
Cliff

+1

Keep up the feeding. Let them put on that thickness and they will have a much better look. At one point mine just suddenly started really putting on that head and body thickness and that really changes the overall look. Good job so far just keep at it.