sick fish heavily planted tank need advice

[Kingcolt]

New to discus and worried for their health, I have a heavily planted tank with several verities of fish in the tank and some of the fish are sick.
looking for the best advice on how to proceed.

posting video and info, if any other details needed just let me know.

-tank details

show tank size 150 gal.
sump tank 40 gal breeder
pump fluval sp6 "after head room about 1500 gph"
2 500 gph jet "only use periodically to stir the junk off the bottom"
35 watt uv sterilizer turbo twist " running 170 gph "
keep the tank around 82-84 degrees
aquatic-lite - 3 stage timer, 12 bulb t5 ho

ammonia, nitrate, nitrite, 0
ph 7.4
Water slightly hard

-fish

Update ich has returned after turning temp down a few degrees.

5 discus
"1 is clamping fins and turning black hides often, not eating"
"1 has a small spot on top fin, eating"
"1 looks fine but is hiding often, haven't seen eat"
"1 has a few spots of ich, turn black some times, eating"
Other hides some times eating normally
2 electric blue jack dempsey "1 has ich, not very active, not eating"
3 german blue rams
2 leopard leaf fish
2 acaras
1 veil angel "some kind of fungus growing on fins, eating"
3 kribensis
1 rope fish
1 bichir
2 hillstream sucker loaches
2 kuhli loaches
5 sepra tetras
4 Siemens algae eaters
1 black skirt
3 platies

in sump several snail have appeared im guessing from plants

-food
frozen blood worms
frozen beef hearts
Dr.g anti bacteral frozen food
Dr.g d-wormer frozen food
xtreme pellets "fish dont seem to eat since started frozen food"

normally feed 2 times a day small amont in the am slightly more at night.

feed medicated food when ever adding new fish

-tank maintenance
ever Wednesday I fully clean the tank removing as much junk from planted areas as possible. normally doing around 50% water change of show tank, along with cleaning all filtration.

Do not age water
Do not use r/o water

Using stress coat+ to treat new water.
I let the water fill the tank slowly over about 45 - 60 min.

since i have gotten the discus i have been doing additional water changes of about 20% ever 2 -3 days on top of the 50% once a week.

-medication used
Treating for ich. with rapid cure for 2 weeks doing water changes every other day

started using melaflex for fungus growth on the angel fish.

Have pimafix but havent used it yet.

Will post better pics tomorrow
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=1300749236634256 (facebook;1300749236634256)

[Filip]

Hi devic and welcome to the forum.
How many discus do you have and how old are they?
When did you introduce them in to your tank ? Did they get sick right away from the start?
Are you sure its ich and not just discus pimples from a bad water quallity?
I would start with quarantining the sick discus in a QT tank and change +80% water daily along with poop siphoning, filter cleaning and regular glass wiping.
See how it goes for a week or two and than proceed with medications only if needed.
Most of the health problems discus have are usually related with not sufficient water quallity and most of them can be solved with just lots of clean and fresh water .

In meanwhile start reading the stickies in the begginer section for proper discus keeping and watch the video from the stickies .

Good luck Devic.

[Kyla]

if u get the discus back into shape i would recommend also considering the removal of some of those other fish. ie i wouldnt mix jack dempseys with discus, hillstream loaches like cooler temps, and every pair of kribs i have kept have turned vicious when breeding.

[Phillydubs]

Sounds like you added new fish over and over with no qt at all.

I'm pretty sure ich doesn't survive at the temps you have listed so I have to agree with flip that it's not that. You also seek to be just throwing meds in hoping something will work on top of feeding medicated food. Again I agree with flip multiple meds are just going to weaken and kill your fish anyway.

You really need to start doing big fuly water changes.

Have you tested your water from the tap and again after 24 hrs ? You may want to age your water

[Kingcolt]

I do have a 20 gal but the heater only goes to 76 currently not set up

[Kingcolt]

Correct I did not qt any fish. However quickly learning this was a mistake.

Start with 3 discus 3 weeks ago add 2 more to stop fighting a week later.

1 discus 4-5 inches
2 discus 3-4 inches
2 discus 2-3 inches

[Kingcolt]

Forgot to mention everything seemed fine did a 50%water change cleaned the tank went to the pet store got the discus. When i returned I then noticed 2 white spot on the sick Jack. I had also jist turned the tank back down a few degrees. I called the pet store he told me to go ahead a put the discus in and start medicated food treament.

[Akili]

Forgot to mention everything seemed fine did a 50%water change cleaned the tank went to the pet store got the discus. When i returned I then noticed 2 white spot on the sick Jack. I had also jist turned the tank back down a few degrees. I called the pet store he told me to go ahead a put the discus in and start medicated food treament.First order of business would be the ending of any dealings with that kind of pet store that ill advises.82F to 84 F is the recommended temperature for Discus unless required for other reasons as needed.Get you self a decent heater for the 20 gallon tank and start to quarantine the Discus. Do 100% water change twice a day on it. If they need medication then follow instructions as advised by some knowledgeable members of this site Next strip down the 150 gallon and the sump tank and sterilize everything and start all over again with a bare bottom tank. I may sound a little harsh but get rid of all the dither fish or house them separately. Someone New to discus should a done a bit of homework.Your homework assignment is go through the stickies’ in the Beginners Section and watch this video
https://youtu.be/VXe3VKh7qF8 It really is like the discus bible around here. Launching yourself into discus particularly in a planted set-up, which can, and many a times it does, produce very disappointing results for novices.

P.S. A must read thread form the beginner section http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?86009-Beginner-s-Guide-to-Getting-Started-with-Discus

[Kingcolt]

I watched that video. It's how i discovered I messed up big time.
Also all the discus ate today except my smallest 1 he looks healthy but hides a lot. Blue diamond i think

[Akili]

I watched that video. It's how i discovered I messed up big time.
Also all the discus ate today except my smallest 1 he looks healthy but hides a lot. Blue diamond i thinkNow that you know you messed up,you know where to begin and learn from that point forward.

[Kingcolt]

How do i go about sterilizing the tank just wipe everything down with alchol?

[Akili]

How do i go about sterilizing the tank just wipe everything down with alchol?Follow post # 2 in this thread http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?122531-Question&highlight=bleach+ratio

[pitdogg2]

FYI nothing kills the white spot form of ICH not even bleach. I would take fish out turn up the heat to at least 90 degrees it will force the ICH to speed up its life cycle too fast to survive at this stage is when bleach will help.

my .02

[bluelagoon]

FYI nothing kills the white spot form of ICH not even bleach. I would take fish out turn up the heat to at least 90 degrees it will force the ICH to speed up its life cycle too fast to survive at this stage is when bleach will help.

my .02

I have had great success in killing the ich parasite using heat at 86-90.86 seems to be the magic number.Some use a combination of heat and salt.Usually wipes them out within days but the recommended treatment is 2 weeks.

[pitdogg2]

I have had great success in killing the ich parasite using heat at 86-90.86 seems to be the magic number.Some use a combination of heat and salt.Usually wipes them out within days but the recommended treatment is 2 weeks.

Yes I completely agree with you on this. It has been my preferred method for years. Then again I cannot remember the last time I used it.

[Kingcolt]

Update.

Still ich in the tank. Did a big water change agian today added no medication. Took out some drift wood and really got into the plants and got a ton of junk out.

The jack died

All the discus are swimming around eating. The whole tank seems much happier

Have the 20 gal circulating with a bleach mix hopefully will be ready to go tomorrow still need to get another heater for it.

[Kingcolt]

Thinking about buying a clean 50gal to house all fish during sterilization of the 150.

[Kingcolt]

One of my red Turks is being quit aggressive will this behavior worsen in the 20 gal?

[Filip]

One of my red Turks is being quit aggressive will this behavior worsen in the 20 gal?

Not necessarily.
Limited space may worsen the aggression but lack of decoration in BB tank may do just the opposite.

P.s. I'm not sure that you really have to sterilize everything in your main tank .Just clean it thoroughly and rearrange it to discus needs while your fish are quarantined and you'll be good to go .

[DiscusRob]

Going to add my .02 here, listen to our knowledgeable members here.

I do have a question of my own however, the OP in his/her first post indicated that the water test out with 0 amm. , 0 nitrite, and 0 nitrates. with this bio load even in a 150 gallon tank you are going to have nitrates, How long has this tank been set up?

[Kingcolt]

4 months the tank has been set up.

I have several apothos growing out the top of the tank and is heavily planted in the tank.

[Kingcolt]

Currently about 37 fish in 190 gals.

[DiscusRob]

Heavily planted or not, you would still see some nitrates, I'd double check your nitrate reading and/or take a water sample to your lfs and have them test it. Elevated nitrates can cause stress related issues. jmho, it would be something to check.

[Kingcolt]

Sorry tried looking through the abbreviations fist but didn't see jmho

[Kingcolt]

I often do take rhem a sample they have always said everything looked good but i will do agian.

[Akili]

Sorry tried looking through the abbreviations fist but didn't see jmho`Just my humble opinion`

[DiscusRob]

`Just my humble opinion`

Thanks Akili

[Filip]

I continuously read about this claim of zero nitrates in established discus tanks here on the forum but I never take it for granted .
Fully cycled and established tank with any fish in it can never have zero nitrates , regardless of the plants , filters or cleaning routine IMO .

[Kingcolt]

Ahh jmho makes since thanks. Yeah ima try to get up to the LFS and get another reading asap.

[DiscusRob]

if you get to your lfs, ask them for the numbers, the actual test results, and let us know. When some one says everything looks good, thats a broad range to cover.

[Kingcolt]

due to work, looks like I wont be able to do much till Wednesday.
still a few spots of ich in the tank doing water changes daily.
i will post the numbers as soon as i get them.

[Kingcolt]

removed much more decor from the tank and did a 70% water change. now the ich is much worse than it has previously been. still running no meds after I was advised to stop. 20 gal will be up and running tomorrow.

[MD.David]

A few things to consider:
1) if you don't have ick and it's a bacterial infection (which is more likely then ick) the temperature increase will probably kill your fish, the temp increase will cause the bacterial infection to spread like wild fire.
2) your water change regime was most likely the culprit of this entire illness. (Again this is what would lead me to believe it's bacterial not parasitical, however it could be both.
3)since you have added so many different kinds of fish you have exposed all your fish to all kinds of slime coat bacteria that some of the fish might not (or most likely are not) immune to, so with all the fighting the illness you could be fighting a loosing battle no matter what you do.
4) the secret to having a very healthy successful discus tank is not knowing what to do to treat an illness but knowing what not to do so you don't ever get sick fish in the first place.
5)now that you have sick fish (in a planted tank to boot) you will fight an excruciating uphill battle.

6) best of luck to you mate and if everything goes south, don't be too upset, we all learn.

Cheers,

[Kingcolt]

ph in both tanks is now 7.6
0 ammonia
0 nitrate
0 nitrite 20 gal, 6.0 ppm 150

[Kingcolt]

so am I just wasting money here fighting this?

[Kingcolt]

most the discus and a few fish have tiny white spots, still eating discus seen little grumpy tho. water is at 84 in both tanks currently.

[Kingcolt]

Angel fish seems healed fungus or bacteria is gone. the white spot. only flares up after the temp has been turned down or after water change.

[MD.David]

If it is indeed ick you could treat with:
Marineland "ick remedy"
This is malachite green and nitro, won't hurt your beneficial bacteria.
Not sure if you can get where you are or not.


Angel fish seems healed fungus or bacteria is gone. the white spot. only flares up after the temp has been turned down or after water change.

[Kingcolt]

the top 2 photo are the same fish
100783100782100784100785

[Kingcolt]

or I should have said the white spots get worse after turning the temp down and after water change. "which also drops the temp"


Angel fish seems healed fungus or bacteria is gone. the white spot. only flares up after the temp has been turned down or after water change.

[Akili]

or I should have said the white spots get worse after turning the temp down and after water change. "which also drops the temp"It has been mentioned many times before that it is difficult to treat fish in a planted tank. you need to move the fish to a quarantine tank before the ich spreads to others. Ich cycle is 3 days but treating it for a week is better by bring the water up to 85-88 degrees.

[William1]

If it 'flares up', it is not going to go away. Ich is not a fungus or bacteria. It is a protozoan that acts like a parasite by attaching itself to the fishes body. A quick google search will tell you all about it and how to treat it. Medicine is not necessary to get rid of ich. A raise in temperature is what speeds up the life cycle of the protozoan and eventually they die. If it 'flares up' after a water change with cooler water, it would seem to make sense to heat your water so you don't get a temperature drop. A heater is not a real expensive item. I just looked at your last post before sending this, and you say you get a flare up after you turn the temp down. Now I'm more confused. You aren't going to get anywhere with the way you are doing it.

[Kingcolt]

I just bought a extra heater to the 150 to try and push the temp past 84.

i put the jack in the new tank last night to make sure everything was fine going to move any fish with white spot to that tank today.

20 gal i have added 4 table spoon of salt with no meds. temp seems to be at 84 going to get a new thermometer today.

[Kingcolt]

before i made this. post I thought I got rid of the ich. So I turned the temp down a few degrees. the next day it was back. Just though I'd post that the temp effects the out break.
thank you and every ones advice I am trying to follow as best I can with the time frame I have to deal with work and wife and such.

[bluelagoon]

When treating ich with heat,you will find that it speeds the ich cycle up.This will appear to have gotten worse,but will been gone in a day or so.The problem with heat treatment is that you can never let the water get no cooler than 86F at any time(very important).Or the parasite will bounce right back.

[Kingcolt]

I'm going to go LFS today and see if they have that m. green that some one recommended. will medication actually cure the tank vs heat?

[Kyla]

medication works, i have used it for years. 75% of the fish i used to buy from the lfs came infected with ich. a little bonus! i always used coppersafe and never lost a fish from ich. i know lots of ppl use salt and have heard the fish industry uses it as well but i have never liked salt in general as a med. i tried the heat method once and it got worse before it got better and during that time i lost one of my new rams. i regretted trying the method and reverted to meds. ich attacks the gills and i felt increasing the heat made respiration that much more difficult. make sure u increase aeration if u increase heat while treating for ich. u have to be careful with meds tho, cuz some fish r sensitive to some meds, so research them first.

[William1]

Yes, increase the aeration with the heat method. I forgot that. When the water is warmer, there is less oxygen in it. Drop a line or two that will produce bubbles, an air stone or I just drop the line in on a weight when I want extra aeration in a tank. Having fun yet?

[Kingcolt]

I have a pretty beefy air pump with both outlets fed into on stone plus I get a lot of air mixed up through the sump. I found rapid cure at the LFS it has m.green in it. Also found a deal on a 90 gal ima try to get tonight.

[Kingcolt]

btw jack died figured that was going to happen from the look and behavior.

[Jack L]

somewhere on the board i posted a battle with ich i had

short version
i skipped qtank procedure, my laziness payed back 10fold
i was only successful with kordon rid ich plus

there is a TON TON TON of really good info on web, not board web-lore, but university studies... i read a lot... just search it

end of day...chemicals worked for me.

p.s. in that photo, doesn't really look like ich

also pay attention to breathing rate. i can be present w/o the spots IF you really have ich.

[Jack L]

good article here

http://www.fishchannel.com/fish-health/freshwater-conditions/ich.aspx

[Kingcolt]

some of the fish are breathing hard but most seem normal.

[Kingcolt]

okbre sanitized the 20 gal since the jack died in it and just set up a 90 will be ready soon. do I need to add benifical bacteria to the water?

[MD.David]

What is water change regimen currently?

[Kingcolt]

What is water change regimen currently?
30% every 2 days

just started the m.green this morning will begin doing 25% daily and re-dosing meds
the ich has reduced on the fish since i added the second heater

i now have 20 gal set up and 90 gal almost ready to go. both tanks BB.
do i need to add starter bacteria to these tanks before i transfer the fish into them

i plan to put the 5 discus in the 20, and all other in the 90.

new issue found "i believe it is due to stress from high heat"
sorry low quality of picture was very hard to even get this. "it looks like a open wound or fungus"
100798

[MD.David]

"30% every two days"

BINGO Mate!!!!
That's your problem, another prime example of poor water quality threw insufficient water changes.
Treat with 50% MG&nitro and change 90% daily, bet 25 quid it totally clears up 100% in 5-7 days.
Also I don't believe they have ick either.

Best of luck mate.


30% every 2 days

just started the m.green this morning will begin doing 25% daily and re-dosing meds
the ich has reduced on the fish since i added the second heater

i now have 20 gal set up and 90 gal almost ready to go. both tanks BB.
do i need to add starter bacteria to these tanks before i transfer the fish into them

i plan to put the 5 discus in the 20, and all other in the 90.

new issue found "i believe it is due to stress from high heat"
sorry low quality of picture was very hard to even get this. "it looks like a open wound or fungus"
100798

[Jack L]

you might consider getting this book
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0793821223/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

sometimes finding answers online can be hard. this is a good book to refer to and level set what you should do.

[Kingcolt]

what I need to know is.
do I need to put starter bacteria in the hospital tanks. or do i start of with old water.
I'm going to shut my 150 gal tank down.
it will be impossible to properly treat my 150 gal tank with heavy substrate and plant while fish are in it.

can some one answer me? so I can move the fish to a clean tank with out killing them thank you.

if you guys don't think its ich how about a suggestion...

if there is fungus and ich can i treat both at the same time.

The only fish sick currently, are the discus and one hill stream loach.
discus have small and slightly larger white specs,
2 with white spots clamping top fin darkened color. 1 darkened color with white spots being aggressive.
other 2 discus seem to no longer have any sign of sickness

hill-stream loach has fungus i believe, since this morning it already seems to reduced in size

The other 31 fish seem perfectly fine
all fish are eating normal

water temp is at 86

[bluelagoon]

Are the white spots the size of grains of sand or salt?Putting old water in a new set up is a "no".There is no beneficial bacteria in the water column itself;it is on all objects in the established tank.

[bluelagoon]

If you're serous about keeping discus;some of those other fish cannot be kept with discus.It will put them under considerable stress especially for young discus.

[Kingcolt]

If you're serous about keeping discus;some of those other fish cannot be kept with discus.It will put them under considerable stress especially for young discus.

like I've already said several times I have 2 hospital tanks set up a 90 and a 20

[Kingcolt]

Are the white spots the size of grains of sand or salt?Putting old water in a new set up is a "no".There is no beneficial bacteria in the water column itself;it is on all objects in the established tank.

size of sand. should I put some rocks in the tank from the 150?

[modealings]

Your nitrites are 6?? If so then your tank isn't cycled. Back when I got my first group and didn't know about doing big water changes they got white spots - bacteria spots, not ich. Just try putting them in their own tank and changing 100-200% a day w aged water. Wouldnt worry about adding cycled filter w this wc regimen.

[Kingcolt]

Your nitrites are 6?? If so then your tank isn't cycled. Back when I got my first group and didn't know about doing big water changes they got white spots - bacteria spots, not ich. Just try putting them in their own tank and changing 100-200% a day w aged water. Wouldnt worry about adding cycled filter w this wc regimen.

ok just wanted to make sure that i wasnt going to kill the fish when transferring them.

is the black back ground important to a bb tank for stress levels ?

6 is what the test said so idk. it have been running for about 5 months.

[Kingcolt]

The 20 gal is ready with heater, airpump, and filter. It has been running for 2 days. tonight i will put the discus in there and start 100% water changes daily.

[DJW]

I read your post where you gave the nitrite measurement and went right past it. If your nitrite is really that high it would explain why you have sick fish. You should test it again to make sure. It is easy to block nitrite toxicity with salt. About 3 tablespoons for the entire 150 gallons will immediately block that level of toxicity.

If you start over with a clean tank without the filter media from the old tank, you can add the bottled bacteria and say a prayer, and maybe there will be enough cycle for a handful of tetras. From what I have seen, there is no way bottled bacteria can provide enough bio filtration for a group of discus on the first day, so you would be changing water a lot to keep the toxins from accumulating. The most the product can do is give a jump start to the cycle.

20 gallons is not much water... you probably need to do two 100% WCs per day for a while.

[Kingcolt]

I read your post where you gave the nitrite measurement and went right past it. If your nitrite is really that high it would explain why you have sick fish. You should test it again to make sure. It is easy to block nitrite toxicity with salt. About 3 tablespoons for the entire 150 gallons will immediately block that level of toxicity.

If you start over with a clean tank without the filter media from the old tank, you can add the bottled bacteria and say a prayer, and maybe there will be enough cycle for a handful of tetras. From what I have seen, there is no way bottled bacteria can provide enough bio filtration for a group of discus on the first day, so you would be changing water a lot to keep the toxins from accumulating. The most the product can do is give a jump start to the cycle.

20 gallons is not much water... you probably need to do two 100% WCs per day for a while.

yeah it'll be just temp untill i clean the 150 real good. I have a 90 gal but I'm going to have to put the other 30 fish in there.

should I take some of the porcelain bio media and put it in the filters?

[Akili]

yeah it'll be just temp untill i clean the 150 real good. I have a 90 gal but I'm going to have to put the other 30 fish in there.

should I take some of the porcelain bio media and put it in the filters?In order to avoid cross contamination no media from the tank should be used.If you going to sanitize the 150 gallon tank, start a new cycle for it.

[Kingcolt]

I'm going to use the bio media from the 150 in the 20 and 90.

after fish are transferred I will strip down the 150 and sterilize it and let it cycle for at least a month before putting dish back into it.

on the 20 and 90 I will do 100% water changes daily unroll the fish have no symptoms.

does this sound right?

[Akili]

I'm going to use the bio media from the 150 in the 20 and 90.

after fish are transferred I will strip down the 150 and sterilize it and let it cycle for at least a month before putting dish back into it.

on the 20 and 90 I will do 100% water changes daily unroll the fish have no symptoms.

does this sound right?To me it does not,if the reason to strip and sterilize the 150 gallon was the intent.

[Kingcolt]

To me it does not,if the reason to strip and sterilize the 150 gallon was the intent.

i just want to get rid of what ever is in the tank so it'll be safe for my fish and future fish.
from every here has told me that with all the plants and substrate i wont be able to clear the tank of what ever it is.

and what would you recommend then, as far as transferring fish and cleaning tank of what ever plagues it?

[Kingcolt]

i just need a complete and consolidated answer to many people are saying different things

[Akili]

Do you still plan to have a planted discus tank ?

[Kingcolt]

Do you still plan to have a planted discus tank ?

after the 150 is cleaned I will keep the discus in the 90 gal bb.

[Kingcolt]

I'm just unsure about how to keep the fish alive in a uncycled hospital tank.

[Akili]

after the 150 is cleaned I will keep the discus in the 90 gal bb.So why not sterilize the 90 gallon tank and move the 5 adults that you have. Fill it three quarters of the way with aged water,this way you will have about 65 to 75 gallons of water to change daily till the health of the discus improves. Not filling the 90 gallon tank to full capacity allows more flexibility both in water changes and medication if need,100 % water change is feasible. While you waiting for the health of the discus improves start a fishless cycle in the sterilized 20 gallon tank. Use 2 or 3 sponges so that you can move them to your 90 gallon at later date. Hope this helps you to formulate your plan.

[Kingcolt]

So why not sterilize the 90 gallon tank and move the 5 adults that you have. Fill it three quarters of the way with aged water,this way you will have about 65 to 75 gallons of water to change daily till the health of the discus improves. Not filling the 90 gallon tank to full capacity allows more flexibility both in water changes and medication if need,100 % water change is feasible. While you waiting for the health of the discus improves start a fishless cycle in the sterilized 20 gallon tank. Use 2 or 3 sponges so that you can move them to your 90 gallon at later date. Hope this helps you to formulate your plan.

the 20 has been running for about 5 days now but this morning the water was cloudy should I just change the water tonight and put the discus in there then in a few days move them to the 90?

[MD.David]

Ok let's have a bit of a short/point form science lesson.
Fish make waste in water from poo, food, admit thru gills, etc (let's call this collective organic waste or COW).
The filter(s) generate thru nitrification bacteria that eat this COW and that beneficial bacteria (Or BB) when they eat the COW poo out "nitrate", which is still harmful to aquatic life but not near as harmful as ammonia or nitrite. However if your nitrate levels get high enough this will make your fish sick and or stress till disease is able to grow. This is why we change water! To lower the COW levels and keep as little nitrate as possible, coupled with a healthy amount of BB developed in your filter media you should have very healthy and clean water for the discus fish.
Now, then an aquarium has plants, soil, substrate, ornaments (this all look pretty, however) this contributes (in most cases) to the decomposing of elements this creating higher levels of COW, again her we go with more water changes and removing any rotting debris (including Fish faeces) that is jammed and hiding in every crack of the planted tank.
Now about keep fish in a tank with no BB or filtration;
The aquarium only needs filtration to break down the COW, if you change enough water (like they do in warmer climate countries like South America ) they don't even use filtration besides an air stone, in cooler parts of the world you may need a heater to keep the tank at at-least 80 degrees (however I personally set mine at 83).
The way you keep you fish alive in a hospital tank is: keep temp at 80-84 degrees (if you need a heater get one), keep an air stone in tank (make sure it causes enough movement for sufficient enough oxygen and enough movement to push the water around the tank so that the heat is distributed even ), ALSO change lots of water! 90% twice a day! (Morning and before bed). If you change out enough water you will not have any COW building in the tank so no nitrification is needed.
If changing his much water is too labour intensive them I suggest gettin a brand new sponge filter (two xy380 for the 90gallon and only one for the 20 gallon) then add some type of nitrification builder or nitrification replacement substitute to jump start the nitrification-nitrogen cycle.
In short you don't need any filter to filter Anything if you change enough water but even if you choose the sponge filter route with BB substitute/builder you will need to change lots of water for at least a week (90% twice a day) and then 90% daily.


I'm just unsure about how to keep the fish alive in a uncycled hospital tank.

[DJW]

Can you put the discus right into the 90g? Putting 5 discus of that size in a 20g tank is very risky, the water quality will go straight downhill. Fill the 90g two thirds full, run filtration for 6-8 hours to age the water some, get the temp close, and move the fish.

[MD.David]

Also try to find this, it really helps!
http://i65.tinypic.com/2193zua.jpg

[Kingcolt]

Can you put the discus right into the 90g? Putting 5 discus of that size in a 20g tank is very risky, the water quality will go straight downhill. Fill the 90g two thirds full, run filtration for 6-8 hours to age the water some, get the temp close, and move the fish.

what should I do with the other 30 fish

[Kingcolt]

maybe I can put some with the discus and the rest in the 20?

[DiscusRob]

like I've already said several times I have 2 hospital tanks set up a 90 and a 20

I believe what bluelagoon means, is in your display tank you can't keep that mix of fish with discuss without stress related problems, could be a major part of your current problem.

[DiscusRob]

ok just wanted to make sure that i wasnt going to kill the fish when transferring them.

is the black back ground important to a bb tank for stress levels ?

6 is what the test said so idk. it have been running for about 5 months.

Devic, I'm confused here, you say you are reading 6 on your nitrite test, your op said Amm. 0, nitrite 0, and nitrate 0, please clarify which tank has the nitrites, if it is the 150, that is what started your problem, it's not cycled if you see nitrites, and at that level, you need to do some seriously large water changes on a daily basis.

[Akili]

what should I do with the other 30 fish Get rid of them

[Kingcolt]

nitrite 0 , nitrate 5 still about the same?
been doing 25% water changes every day since i started the m.green all white spots are gone. tank is still at 86
the loach's fungus has almost completely healed, although 1 german blue ram i found dead this morning unsure of exact cause he had no spots or fungus.

[MD.David]

"25% water change daily"
Some people just refuse to understand the importants of large daily water changes.
Why be so hard headed mate?

Your tank got into trouble because of the way you do things, why not take advice from people that have done it a lot longer with far more success?

We are only trying to help you because we know not because we are hissing in the wind.

Best of luck, but many people on the forum will only try to help the people that value good information, and the ones that are resistant to information won't get much help.


nitrite 0 , nitrate 5 still about the same?
been doing 25% water changes every day since i started the m.green all white spots are gone. tank is still at 86
the loach's fungus has almost completely healed, although 1 german blue ram i found dead this morning unsure of exact cause he had no spots or fungus.

[Kingcolt]

not trying to be hard headed I just have a lot of things going on besides this tank that take up my time.

[Kingcolt]

managed to get a break at work got some seed bacteria and some bio filter media going to set up the cycle on thd 90 tonight. Also managed to do a 50% water change before the wife started ck.plaining about it being time to go lol.

[Kingcolt]

fish are looking great just finished m.green treatment. got the bio filter set up in the 90. should be able to transfer fish tonight

[MD.David]

Look at the positive results you have at only doing 40% of what I recommend, Can you imagine if you would have taken all of my advice.
Keep it up mate, try for more water changes, you will really see them come around.
Glad things are improving.



fish are looking great just finished m.green treatment. got the bio filter set up in the 90. should be able to transfer fish tonight

[Kingcolt]

Look at the positive results you have at only doing 40% of what I recommend, Can you imagine if you would have taken all of my advice.
Keep it up mate, try for more water changes, you will really see them come around.
Glad things are improving.

I'm trying, did a 60% water change this morning ended up being 10 min late for work.

[MD.David]

Solution for being late:
Get u earlier!

Lol


I'm trying, did a 60% water change this morning ended up being 10 min late for work.

[Kingcolt]

just finished transferring the fish to the 90. drip acclimated them for about 40 min before adding them. fish are a little skidish but seem to be ok so far.

[Crazypop231]

Can anyone tell me what these spots are on my discus

[Kyla]

discus naturally have little holes in their faces called sensory pits, lots of fish have them. but what can happen is these pits can errode, or holes can develop in the flesh of the discus, which is called "hole in the head disease". watch the holes for changes or erosion to determine if u have an issue. it also helps to document them with photos, so u can reference back and see whether there have been changes.

[Crazypop231]

discus naturally have little holes in their faces called sensory pits, lots of fish have them. but what can happen is these pits can errode, or holes can develop in the flesh of the discus, which is called "hole in the head disease". watch the holes for changes or erosion to determine if u have an issue. it also helps to document them with photos, so u can reference back and see whether there have been changes.







I thought it could be this to but they shouldn't move towards the gills if it's hole in the head right? They look like grains of salt. I have a orange one that's getting it around its lip to..

[MD.David]

All these illnesses boil down to poor fish keeping. If you think your doing a good job of tank up keep your sadly mistaken. The fish doesn't lie, it's not out to get you, it's doesn't get sick because everything is good and healthy.
THEY GET SICK BECAUSE YOUR A ROOKIE NOOB AND YOU DONT GET IT!
God mates!!!.... When will governments pass laws to license aquariumists. Last week I read a thread where some wanker was doing 15% water changes EVERY TWO WEEKS???? What the heck mate!
All what's happening here is people that refuse to understand and except that many water changes are needs to keep aquarium life healthy...
If you can't keep your discus healthy then buy cat fish or karp.


I thought it could be this to but they shouldn't move towards the gills if it's hole in the head right? They look like grains of salt. I have a orange one that's getting it around its lip to..

[Crazypop231]

And I use r.o water

[Crazypop231]

I change my water 10% every single day my ammonia and nitrate and nitrite levels are barely on scale I use RO water recommended amount of salt if you have advice give it if you have nothing shouldn't criticize somebody for asking for help.

[Crazypop231]

My pH is 6.8 in my water temperature is 84 82 degrees

[pitdogg2]

I change my water 10% every single day my ammonia and nitrate and nitrite levels are barely on scale I use RO water recommended amount of salt if you have advice give it if you have nothing shouldn't criticize somebody for asking for help.

you should be ZERO for all but maybe a little nitrate is OK, sounds like your bio filter is not complete yet. How long has tank been set up? What are you talking about "recommended" salt?

[Akili]

Hi Sean, welcome to SimplyDiscus, to start with looks like your fish are not kept in optimum conditions, to honest perhaps to a point where they should be culled.Hole in the head is reversible with a lot of work and dedication.First you need to move the fish to sterile quarantine tank and start doing Daily 100% water changes Next provide them a healthy diet rich in Vitamins and Minerals. Do not use pure R/O or distilled water and activated carbon,. There are some necessary minerals and trace elements that are important to Discus. Lastly educate yourself with the knowledge of Discus keeping. , I recommend to go through the stickies’ in the Beginners Section and watch this video
https://youtu.be/VXe3VKh7qF8 it is about an hour and half long but worth hours of information
P.S. A must read thread form the beginner section http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?125704-Beginner-s-Guide-to-Getting-Started-with-Discus

[Crazypop231]

My test right now says that my pH is 6.89 ammo Nia is 0 my nitrate and nitrite is 0 my water temperature is 82 - 84 degrees
I have had this tank going for 7months 60gallon

I use a vitamin supplement Called fish keeper
I have a uv canister filter .

What do u recommend adding to the r.o water?

[Akili]

What do u recommend adding to the r.o water?What is your reason to use R.O. water?

[Crazypop231]

Az water is hard and dirty

[adrian31@outlook.com]

My pH is 6.8 in my water temperature is 84 82 degrees

I'm only a beginner myself so can't really advise you, but I wish you luck with these issues friend.

[Crazypop231]

I'd post more pics but can't figure out how or maybe it's just not giving me the option on my phone

[Akili]

My test right now says that my pH is 6.89 ammo Nia is 0 my nitrate and nitrite is 0 my water temperature is 82 - 84 degrees
I have had this tank going for 7months 60gallon

I use a vitamin supplement Called fish keeper
I have a uv canister filter .

What do u recommend adding to the r.o water?


Az water is hard and dirty Use Kent R/O Right Water Conditioner

[pitdogg2]

some just use a 60/40 or 50/50 RO to tap. to get back some minerals and stability in the pH.

[bluelagoon]

nitrite 0 , nitrate 5 still about the same?
been doing 25% water changes every day since i started the m.green all white spots are gone. tank is still at 86
the loach's fungus has almost completely healed, although 1 german blue ram i found dead this morning unsure of exact cause he had no spots or fungus.

Back to this post.Rams are very sensitive to water quality;meds are hard on them and other fish more so than heat..That's why I recommended heat treatment.I watched a program a few days ago where they are going to apply heat for treatment in farmed salmon to rid them of parasites.

[Crazypop231]

This is my other discus with the white spots. Still seem like hole on the head?

[Crazypop231]

Another pic

[pitdogg2]

Crazypop231 you should start your own thread instead of hijacking this one for your problem.

Fish do HAVE pit's as another member has pointed out that is not looking like HITH to me it looks like pits/nostrils that may be larger than normal due inadequate water quality from lack of large enough water changes and or tank care.

[Crazypop231]

They seem to be scratching their faces on my plants

But not alot every now anD then I notice that

Other wise I guess I'll do more water changes I do about 5 to 10 gallons a day in a 55gal tank. I had them for a month and noticed them so I started to ask

[Crazypop231]

And I don't know how to create my own thread other wise I would have.

[pitdogg2]

I do about 5 to 10 gallons a day in a 55gal tank. I had them for a month and noticed them so I started to ask

start with 40gpd water changes, 5-10 is not nearly enough. How long have you been keeping fish? Do you have gravel in the tank? how deep if you do?

[bluelagoon]

They seem to be scratching their faces on my plants

But not alot every now anD then I notice that

Other wise I guess I'll do more water changes I do about 5 to 10 gallons a day in a 55gal tank. I had them for a month and noticed them so I started to ask

That would be like changing no water at all when it comes to discus.50-100% daily would be much better.

[Crazypop231]

I have had them for about a month and I had other fish prior but I got it stable (biofilter) so I can do a discus tank and it's white sand not even a inch thick it's pretty thin layer.

[bluelagoon]

You're are close to starting a post in the hospital section if you treat discus like other fish.@crazypop

[pitdogg2]

You're are close to starting a post in the hospital section if you treat discus like other fish.@crazypop

nope he "doesn't" know how to start his own thread or he would not of hijacked this one.....

[Akili]

nope he "doesn't" know how to start his own thread or he would not of hijacked this one.....Open a section you want to post in ............. look for a button on the top left Post New Thread click and off you go

[Crazypop231]

Hahahah this guy makes me laugh!

[Crazypop231]

I've literally been on this site for no more then 20 hrs I haven't had time to look at it

[bluelagoon]

You're are close to starting a post in the hospital section if you treat discus like other fish.@crazypop

I was referring to post 120.

[Filip]

I was referring to post 120.

Still , the pitdogg2 joke is right on spot and it made me laugh too .
Its not likely that you are going to see Crazypop in hospital section soon since he doesent know how to post a new thread :-).

[pitdogg2]

Still , the pitdogg2 joke is right on spot and it made me laugh too .
Its not likely that you are going to see Crazypop in hospital section soon since he doesent know how to post a new thread :-).

Was no joke he stated on page 7-8 when I ask that he start his own.

[pitdogg2]

And I don't know how to create my own thread other wise I would have.

Found it.....

[Filip]

Was no joke he stated on page 7-8 when I ask that he start his own. Mod must of removed it I do not see it now.

Its not removed .
post 115 your advice . post 117 Crazypop telling he doesent know how to open new thread.
So you were right , even if his discus get sick like Blue lagoon stated its not likely we will see him in a disease section anytime soon :) .

[Crazypop231]

Idk if you work or not or has kids but yall need a life just because I didn't reply to a previous comment doesn't mean anything hahahaha

[Crazypop231]

Let alone some post open and some don't on my phone so get over your selfs it's pretty petty

[Filip]

@ Sean , im sorry if i offended you with my comments in anyway , that wasnt my intention .
Just Pitdogg comment about posting ,made me laugh like it made you too as you said above .
Feel welcome here and take your time learning about forum technicalities .
No hard feelings.