what in the world...

[Neptune]

All my discus were jsut hanging out in a school, doing there thing looking complelty normal and acting complety normal.

All of sudden my biggest one starts flying around the tank as fast as he an go crashing into things and now he is swimming on his side in circles at the top. I mean literally this just happened with in one second!?

I did a water change about 3 hours ago, he ate normally two hours ago. Nothing scared him??

Now he is back to acting semi normal but breathing hard. Its like he had a seizure??
The bully of the tank is eyeing him up?

[warblad79]

Whirling disease

[Ryan925]

Whirling disease

I've seen lots of different posts on this... Some say this behavior can be contagious correct?

[Bc chick]

All my discus were jsut hanging out in a school, doing there thing looking complelty normal and acting complety normal.

All of sudden my biggest one starts flying around the tank as fast as he an go crashing into things and now he is swimming on his side in circles at the top. I mean literally this just happened with in one second!?

I did a water change about 3 hours ago, he ate normally two hours ago. Nothing scared him??

Now he is back to acting semi normal but breathing hard. Its like he had a seizure??
The bully of the tank is eyeing him up?

Do u age your water?

[Neptune]

Do u age your water?

no, half tap, half RO
all 7 of the others are acting normal!

Does Whirling disease come on just like throwing a switch?

[Bc chick]

Im not very experienced enough to answer. Sorry. I believe its common with large water changes. I think something to do with the gases in the microbubbles.

[nc0gnet0]

Just to clarify......

It's not whirling disease. Whirling disease only effects Salmonids, and possibly a few other cold water species.

While yes, discus do exhibit "whirling behavior" calling it "whirling disease" attributes it to one specific cause (implied). this is not the case at all, as several things can cause discus to exhibit this behavior.

-Rick

[Bc chick]

Im not very experienced enough to answer. Sorry. I believe its common with large water changes. I think something to do with the gases in the microbubbles.

Do you know what im refering to? I just read it somewhere but cant put my finger on it

[Bc chick]

Just to clarify......

It's not whirling disease. Whirling disease only effects Salmonids, and possibly a few other cold water species.

While yes, discus do exhibit "whirling behavior" calling it "whirling disease" attributes it to one specific cause (implied). this is not the case at all, as several things can cause discus to exhibit this behavior.

-Rick

Oops that was for you rick

[Neptune]

Just to clarify......

It's not whirling disease. Whirling disease only effects Salmonids, and possibly a few other cold water species.

While yes, discus do exhibit "whirling behavior" calling it "whirling disease" attributes it to one specific cause (implied). this is not the case at all, as several things can cause discus to exhibit this behavior.

-Rick

Would a 50% water change with 75% unaged tap and 25% RO water do it?

[Neptune]

interesting read!

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?115050-Whirling-Disease/page4

Well he came out of hiding for a little while. He is not breathing hard any more, but he is darker than usual and hiding.
He is the fish in the middle of the frame and the bigger of the two in the back.

[nc0gnet0]

Did the behavior start right after a water change?

[Bc chick]

interesting read!

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?115050-Whirling-Disease/page4

Well he came out of hiding for a little while. He is not breathing hard any more, but he is darker than usual and hiding.
He is the fish in the middle of the frame and the bigger of the two in the back.

Yeah ive seen that one before. Wush i ciuld remember where i saw the one about the micro bubbles. The bubbles actually get into their fins. You can see them inside

[dprais1]

gas bubble diesease


...I have one full grown fish that occasionaly does this (that I'm aware of). it may happen anytime, on days I don't even do waterchanges, for no reason I am aware of. I does seem to happen in the evening more often....when I am around and able to observe.

[Neptune]

Did the behavior start right after the water change?
Not right after, about two hours after the water change. He/she was completely normal and then it was if you stuck an electrode into his/her brain!
I expected it to be dead or in real distress this morning.
Nope out with school, pecking along the bottom for food like it likes to do, defending itself in the pecking order. Weird!

I gotta believe it did not like something in the WC.

To make it even a little more strange, he did not have much of an appetite the last couple of days, I did the water change and then feed them right after, he was first in line for chow so I thought hey, he just wanted fresh water!

One last piece of the WC. I'm using tap water that is run through a softner. I need to track it down but I think even my cold source in the kitchen(tap I use) is softened.

I gotta say I am not excited about aging water, the tank is in the living room, but if I have to, I'll figure something out.

Hmmm thinking out loud, could it be feeding right after a WC? Maybe they gulp more water with mircobubbles when eating and it gets into the stomach??????? Then the microbubbles expand or combine into a bigger bubble and BAM?????

[Bc chick]

Not right after, about two hours after the water change. He/she was completely normal and then it was if you stuck an electrode into his/her brain!
I expected it to be dead or in real distress this morning.
Nope out with school, pecking along the bottom for food like it likes to do, defending itself in the pecking order. Weird!

I gotta believe it did not like something in the WC.

To make it even a little more strange, he did not have much of an appetite the last couple of days, I did the water change and then feed them right after, he was first in line for chow so I thought hey, he just wanted fresh water!

One last piece of the WC. I'm using tap water that is run through a softner. I need to track it down but I think even my cold source in the kitchen(tap I use) is softened.

I gotta say I am not excited about aging water, the tank is in the living room, but if I have to, I'll figure something out.

Hmmm thinking out loud, could it be feeding right after a WC? Maybe they gulp more water with mircobubbles when eating and it gets into the stomach??????? Then the microbubbles expand or combine into a bigger bubble and BAM?????

I find you can limit the amount of microbubbles by controling to force of flow when refilling. I like to let the water hit the glsss rather than gush into water. Kinda like pouring a beer into glass to control foam. I also take siphoner off and just use hose to refill for smaller flow. Ill be aging water by the time my discus arrive. My tank is in bedroom so i have to age in another room as well

[nc0gnet0]

Not right after, about two hours after the water change. He/she was completely normal and then it was if you stuck an electrode into his/her brain!
I expected it to be dead or in real distress this morning.
Nope out with school, pecking along the bottom for food like it likes to do, defending itself in the pecking order. Weird!

I gotta believe it did not like something in the WC.

To make it even a little more strange, he did not have much of an appetite the last couple of days, I did the water change and then feed them right after, he was first in line for chow so I thought hey, he just wanted fresh water!

One last piece of the WC. I'm using tap water that is run through a softner. I need to track it down but I think even my cold source in the kitchen(tap I use) is softened.

I gotta say I am not excited about aging water, the tank is in the living room, but if I have to, I'll figure something out.

Hmmm thinking out loud, could it be feeding right after a WC? Maybe they gulp more water with mircobubbles when eating and it gets into the stomach??????? Then the microbubbles expand or combine into a bigger bubble and BAM?????

I think your barking up the wrong tree with water changes being the culprit. I would expect the darting to happen much sooner than 2 hours after, and it definitely is not micro-bubbles.....

[Filip]

Read this thread Neptune .
My experience with darting is explained there , and it may have something in common with your current problems.
Two things that I found in common are :
1. You use straight tap for WC s as I do , and
2. Darting happens right after a heavy meal (just like in my case ).

And from what I saw , I agree with Rick that its rather a behaviour, not a specific disease .
Good luck .


http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?125023-One-discus-that-darts&p=1219952&highlight=#post1219952

[Neptune]

Good reads, and you come to one conclusion, it is a mystery as to what it is and what causes it.

My fish is acting normal, interested in eating and hanging out with the others.
I've been feeding them more lightly and I'm scarred to death to do a water change. But it has only been two days since I did one so I'm not worried about water quality yet.

Lights come on at 3:30pm and that is their normal FDBW feeding so we will see how that goes!

[Neptune]

Well came home from work today. He is really tucked into his hidey hole and he is breathing hard. He looks pretty tough. He ate well this morning however.

He did another round of his "seizure swimming" tonight and is back in his hiding spot.

BUT man discus are mean!! They sense he is not doing well and man does he get picked on! Even the runt takes his shot at him!

So what happens to these fish. Do they just eventually die? Is it worth quarantining it?
I'm avoiding WC's to not stress him out but I feel I gotta do one tomorrow, its been three days.

[Filip]

Well came home from work today. He is really tucked into his hidey hole and he is breathing hard. He looks pretty tough. He ate well this morning however.

He did another round of his "seizure swimming" tonight and is back in his hiding spot.

BUT man discus are mean!! They sense he is not doing well and man does he get picked on! Even the runt takes his shot at him!

So what happens to these fish. Do they just eventually die? Is it worth quarantining it?
I'm avoiding WC's to not stress him out but I feel I gotta do one tomorrow, its been three days.

Fast him separately or the whole group for 4-5 days w/o any food , WC and lights out.
This worked for me. Seizures were gone ever since and all 3 fish now live and eat happily along with the rest of my group.

[Neptune]

Fast him separately or the whole group for 4-5 days w/o any food , WC and lights out.
This worked for me. Seizures were gone ever since and all 3 fish now live and eat happily along with the rest of my group.

I'll give that a shot. Maybe it is a light thing, he is up in the morning normal as can be with the lights out. Some light from the kitchen spills into the room but he is right at the front looking for food.
It's been three days since I did a water change, I think I will hold back on food today. I will do a water change tomorrow and then do the 4-5 regiment.
I'll keep you posted!

[Neptune]

Well, the whirler had a bad weekend. he spent the night in the weir Friday night, he went nuts and jumped in their. I threw him back in the tank yesterday, dead this morning.
I hope this doesn't spread!
Sure wish there was some real answer to what this is.

[Neptune]

Read this thread Neptune .
My experience with darting is explained there , and it may have something in common with your current problems.
Two things that I found in common are :
1. You use straight tap for WC s as I do , and
2. Darting happens right after a heavy meal (just like in my case ).

And from what I saw , I agree with Rick that its rather a behaviour, not a specific disease .
Good luck .


http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?125023-One-discus-that-darts&p=1219952&highlight=#post1219952

Its such an odd thing, this fish was my biggest healthy fish!(of course) Literally went from king of the tank to dead in about a week and half.
Like Filip says it came on with:

1. Big meal
2. Big tap water WC
AND 3. I did this WC with the lights on. Usually I do them with the lights off to keep them a little calmer. But this time I did it lights on so I could clean glass.

The only other thing I was thinking was....I used a paper towel to wipe the glass, could they put some chemical in them for whitening, mold inhibitor or something?
AND thinking further out loud...with the lights on, I noticed I can see the pulse width modulation(PWM) flicker?

Wouldn't it be bizarre if this causes something like an epileptic seizure?
Did anyone experience this with NON LED lighting?

I'm REALLY throwing darts at nothing here,,,,just thinking out loud...its terrible to watch a fish go through this!

[MD.David]

I have been following this thread for awhile and was curious to see the out come. I find it very odd that someone would perceive that water changes would be the culprit, when in fact it could be the very thing that would make the fish better.
When a discus displays "whirley characterisics" it's because the fish is expressing severe discomfort, as Rick pointed out there is no such thing as "whirlers disease" but is a behavioural display of (what some would call) excruciating pain or stress.
It is not uncommon to have a discus throw a temper tantrum for certain reasons, but sometimes this is emotional frustration but usually more commonly because they are severely irritated because of something.
Hindsight is always 20/20, but I think I would like to make a few points.
1) I think you should have established a healthy water change regiment of a minimum of 80% daily with aged water that was aerated with an air stone to totally eliminate the fact or possibility of microbubbles.
2)after again go would have tested the ph in the aged water container and compared it in the tank to also eliminate the possible irritation of pH swing .
3) I may have used a light dosage of epson salt and possibly API streets coat+ to calm the nervous system of the discus.
4)changed the light (I highly doubt this caused anything) but one can never eliminate too much when it could be doing something that we just aren't aware of.

Conclusion:
If I would have done all the above steps and the action of the fish still persisted I probably would have started to really look at the fish to see if there is any health issues, possibly a skin bacterial infection that might be so slight I just didn't notice.
Discus flip out for reasons, they express themselves for reasons.
It's something to consider, but I would strongly recommend more water changes then not.

Cheers mate and best of luck, sorry for your loss.

[Ryan925]

I would be curious what the cause is as well...

I have a 75G I do between 50%-%80 every other day. Straight tap lights on. Wc doesn't bother my fish at all. In fact I have to literally push them out of the way. When I feel from the tap they often like to hang out below the python.

[Neptune]

I would be curious what the cause is as well...

I have a 75G I do between 50%-%80 every other day. Straight tap lights on. Wc doesn't bother my fish at all. In fact I have to literally push them out of the way. When I feel from the tap they often like to hang out below the python.
No one can tell you the cause.
I was doing 50% WC daily for months with these fish. Then one particular water change--- bam.

[Ryan925]

No one can tell you the cause.
I was doing 50% WC daily for months with these fish. Then one particular water change--- bam.

Hopefully was just isolated incident with particular fish