54 gallon corner planted tank: minor issues

[LittleT2884]

I have a 54g corner tank with 5 discus and I'm having issues with a few of the plants and one discus.

Here's all my information.
PH: 6.4
Ammonia: 0
Nitrites: 0
Nitrates: ~5 ppm

Haven't tested gh and kh in a while, but I can if need be.

I have CO2 pumped into the tank at roughly 2 bubbles a second.

Fish.
9 cardinals
5 bloodfins
3 SAE
1 small bristlenose
1 small clown pleco
5 discus.
Largest is 3.5 inches.
3 around 2.5-3 inches.
Smallest is about 2 inches.


Plants.
Moneyworts: growing really well.
Purple Cabomba: also growing really well.
Dwarf Hairgrass: hasn't really spread much since I planted it two months ago. Looks good for the most part, but want more creep to happen.
Dwarf Babytears: similar to the Hairgrass, but it did melt away a bit initially, but seems to have stabilized. But still not growing out yet.
Couple of swords (amazon and I forget the other type, but very similar). They are thin and not growing at all.


The discus are my issue with the fish. The four biggest are active and beat on each other, but the smallest one hides behind the moneyworts all day. At night they all come out, even the small one.
I haven't seen the small one feed much and wonder how long I should wait. 3 of the 5 (including the smallest) I introduced about 10 days ago into the tank.

My issues with the plants are the growth on the baby tears and amazons. They're not taking root well and are not growing fast. The moneyworts and cabomba are growing extremely well.
I have root feeders under the baby tears and amazons to no avail.

My lights are a 4 bulb 34 inch T5 set-up with 2x 10k bulbs
1x 5000 bulb
1x 4500 bulb

Fluorite substrate.

[Ryan925]

I have just slowly changed from a pretty heavily planted tank to now being almost all hard scape. For me the discus are the most important not the plants.

When my tank was planted my plants grew like crazy. My fish definitely enjoy more room. If I had to guess I'd say your plants are suffering from lack of ferts. My plants took off when I started the seachem line of ferts. That quickly got expensive.. I'd suggest the pps pro system from green leaf. Very easy and very inexpensive.

If you choose to keep your discus in a planted it's going to be a give and tank. You might not have the results you desire with your discus if you choose to have a flourishing planted tank.

The difference for me was night and day after making the change. Fish behavior and appearance were almost instantly improved.

[Neptune]

My two cents...
Your little one is obviously low fish on the totem pole. Discus establish a pecking order and it is essential to their behavior. It is 100% normal and is not a problem as long as the low man does not get so stressed by the bullying that it gets sick.(which it sounds like yours is or on the verge of).
It is probably being bullied during the high light hours. Can you feed in subdued light when it will come out?
Couple ways to deal with it, most people house enough fish that the aggression is spread out among more fish.

Second. Dwarf baby tears is a high CO2, high light plant. To get it to grow well it needs max light. Discus do not like max light and your little guy sure won't like the high light.
You have a major conflict between your baby tears and discus!

[bluelagoon]

The sword plant will need at least a month or two to get the roots established.Best to leave it in one spot and not to move it from one location to another.Plants and young discus don't do well unless if you don't clean the substrate a lot and still need lots of fresh water to rid the system from the ferts your adding and the fish waste.It would be a good idea if you mention your maintenance and water change routine.If your not adding ferts regularly,CO2 is not necessary and needs to be discontinued or aerated out at night so a drop in PH doesn't happen.Some plants just don't do well in warmer temps.

[LittleT2884]

Thanks for the replies.

I do a 10% WC every other day. I add flourish to the new water and have fert tabs under the plants too.

And I'll try feeding the little guy in low light. I've thought about getting a 20g tank just for him to grow in, then I'd reintroduce him later.

One if my DBT patches is really starting to look good. But two others are still just "bleh." If it gets too bad I'll just pull them and focus on fish.

Are my lights not good enough for the set up? I felt like when I did the math they were more than adequate.

[Ryan925]

How long have you had the fish? 10% every other day will lead you to some serious trouble with the fish. I was doing 50% once a week when my tank was planted. When I realized that wasn't enough I now do 50%-80% every other day. The fish I thought were stunted have shown nice growth. They all are growing very nicely and appearance is so much better.

[LittleT2884]

I've had most of the fish and the two largest discus for over a month or two. I used to do 50% changes every other day on my old tank in my college days and I agree, they grew much faster, but I didn't see a need to for this tank as the other 4 discus are active and very colorful. It's only the small one (still looks great, just hides all the time) that is timid and not eating much. My parameters are all low as well. I'm wondering if there's too many plants possibly?

[Neptune]

what lights are you running? how tall is your tank? how long are the lights on?

[LittleT2884]

what lights are you running? how tall is your tank? how long are the lights on?

aquasun 4 bulb, 36 inch T5 HO lights.
2x 10k
1x 5000
1x 4500

[Filip]

Welcome to SD forum and to first time keeping discus Little T.

Since this is a discus oriented forum ill start addresing problems asociated with them first.
You have a very unfriendly and unplesant enviroment and waterchanging regime established for your discus here. They are still very young and small and need much more fresh water and cleaner enviroment to grow and thrive . Planted tanks with deep substrate bed harbours a lot of bacteria and pathogens in them that shows up to be detrimental to discus health on the long run , especially for juveniles like you have.
Unfortintely Im almost sure that if you dont increase waterchanges percentage , cut co2 and minimize the substrate layer you will end up with sick and non eating discus.

As for the plants concern.
Baby tears , Hairgrass and even Cabomba Piahuensis are delicate plants that will struggle discus temperatures of 82 fahrenheits . They also like high co2 levels and nutrients that also hurts discus on the long run . So maybe its better to cosider keeping some easier plants .
As for the Amazon sword , dont worry , it needs some time to get established . After that period of adjusment im sure that it will thrive since its fairly easy plant to keep.
BTW your lights are more than sufficient for growing everything. You can easily go by with only 3 of them .

[TexMoHoosier]

My $0.02....

Get a 55 gallon grow out tank (bb, and maybe a piece of drift wood, but no plants) and grow your discus in there until they're 6+ inches.

In the mean time, play with your display tank and figure out what works at 82ish degrees F as far as ferts, CO2, water changes, etc., while your discus grow out. When they're done growing, and your display tank is well established and running smoothly, add your discus. Healthy adults will do just fine in a high tech planted tank as long as you maintain it properly (i.e. water changes, consistent ferts/CO2). You'll have to adjust your ferts some after you add the discus (you'll have to dose less NO3, maybe less PO4, but probably the same trace element dosage), but it should be easy to figure out and dial in. I would suggest doing tons of homework on planted tanks and learn all you can about lighting, CO2, ferts, etc. Planted tanks are all about balance and consistent water parameters (the same things discus need to thrive), but actually achieving balance and consistency with a planted tank is much more complicated than just changing lots of water all of the time.

[Filip]

My $0.02....

Get a 55 gallon grow out tank (bb, and maybe a piece of drift wood, but no plants) and grow your discus in there until they're 6+ inches.

In the mean time, play with your display tank and figure out what works at 82ish degrees F as far as ferts, CO2, water changes, etc., while your discus grow out. When they're done growing, and your display tank is well established and running smoothly, add your discus. Healthy adults will do just fine in a high tech planted tank as long as you maintain it properly (i.e. water changes, consistent ferts/CO2). You'll have to adjust your ferts some after you add the discus (you'll have to dose less NO3, maybe less PO4, but probably the same trace element dosage), but it should be easy to figure out and dial in. I would suggest doing tons of homework on planted tanks and learn all you can about lighting, CO2, ferts, etc. Planted tanks are all about balance and consistent water parameters (the same things discus need to thrive), but actually achieving balance and consistency with a planted tank is much more complicated than just changing lots of water all of the time.

This is actually a great advice and its what most people do , when they want to successfully keep discus in a planted tank.
They grow the discus in a barebottom tank with daily maintenance and WCs and at the same time prepare and grow a nice planted tank for discus to go in once they are fully grown and with buid up strong immune systems .

[LittleT2884]

Thanks for the responses. I've upped the size and amount of water changes and I ended up getting rid of the amazon swords (they never recovered). Lowered my CO2 dosage and also did smaller feedings (I'm thinking this might have been one of my biggest issues, even though my water quality measurements were showing satisfactory). The other plants are looking better now as well. Within the last week the Dwarf Baby tears are looking much better.

The four biggest discus are still doing great and are active. The little one still hides more than the rest, but I see it pecking around when I feed. It tends to be more active at night.

I might get a 20 gallon tank to grow it out alone still, but the others I'll leave in the corner tank.

[LittleT2884]

http://i64.tinypic.com/2pzfltl.jpg

[Filip]

Don't bother to buy a new 20 g for him exclusively Little T .
Discus are schooling fish and are less likely to thrive if kept by them selves alone.

[bluelagoon]

When saying water quality is satisfactory.It is not likely you're measuring the bacteria load,fert load,waste ect.In a planted closed system with young discus the substrate needs cleaning along with regular large WC's at least every other day,but with your load the discus would do better with daily water changes.This way you won't get a build up of nutrients and keep things more balanced.I'd leave the small discus in the tank.He is lowest in rank.If you take it out another may take its place.

[LittleT2884]

Is there a way to measure those other factors?

And i started going much farther into the substrate cleaning which might also be why things have improved.

This is my second discus tank and I didn't have any issues with plants or fish with my prior tank that I had in my college years.

Thanks for the info though. Glad to be a part of this board. Lots of good info here

[Filip]

Is there a way to measure those other factors?

And i started going much farther into the substrate cleaning which might also be why things have improved.

This is my second discus tank and I didn't have any issues with plants or fish with my prior tank that I had in my college years.

Thanks for the info though. Glad to be a part of this board. Lots of good info here

No . Unfortunately we still can't measure pathogen (bacteria , viruses, fungus , flagellates , parasites etc.) content in our water .
Specialized bio labs I think are able to do so.

That's why we change water so often and keep the bottom and filters cleaned regularly , to stay on the safe side with this unmeasurables. Discus and their immune system is more sensitive to them compared to other freshwaters , because they originate from a water with very low PH values and thus low pathogen content and diversity .