PDA

View Full Version : Fish unsettled after broken heater



Running Wolf
10-17-2016, 03:56 PM
I am hoping you can help me solve a challenge with my fish, as I am struggling to improve the issue I am facing.

My 400w heater failed sometime between Friday night (10pm) and Saturday morning (9:30am). Obviously the water was way too cold, around 15C (59F). I replaced the heater with 2 x 300w working on the principle that should one fail the other would at least try and keep the temperature up at the correct level.

Since Saturday morning my fish have looked lifeless, shown no interest in food, and have either been tucked up a top rear corner of the tank, or lying on their sides at the bottom of the tank.

My tank is 267 litres (70 gal) with silver sand substrate and has ghostwood to recreate the tree roots of a river bed. I have a Fluval 406 filter, and i have one airstone running.

As for stock, I have 4 x snakeskin blue stendker and 4 x leopard discus.

The tank parameters are currently: -

pH 6.4,
Ammonia 0
Nitrites 0
Nitrates 10ppm (they have never been above 20ppm since the tank was cycled in May)
kH 3
gH 6


All tested using the api master test kit.

The water temperature is 32C (89F) as one of the smaller fish looked as if they had some white spots on them late on Saturday, so I ncreased the temperature from its usual 29C (84F)

I have been doing twice daily 50% pwc's until this morning when I increased this to 80%. There is some small improvement in the fish after a pwc although this only lasts for about an hour or so before they become lifeless again.

I haven't seen any fin clamping nor do they seem to have increased respiratory rates.

They are still not feeding well, so I have reduced the amount of food they were getting by half. They are currently on either frozen bloodworm or shrimp with spirilina supplemented with Ocean Fresh discus pellets.

I am not a great believer in adding chemicals for chemicals sake, and have not added anything to the water.

Apart from keeping up the 80% twice daily water changes does anyone have any bright suggestions on what else I can do?

Thanks for your help, much appreciated.

Galvatron
10-17-2016, 04:22 PM
I want to start out by saying that I'm by no means an expert of any kind. That being said, maybe some epson salt would help.

atlantadiscus
10-17-2016, 04:25 PM
80% water changes 2X per day.....I hope you are matching temperatures during this process.

Ryan925
10-17-2016, 04:47 PM
80% water changes 2X per day.....I hope you are matching temperatures during this process.

Very true. You may be causing more stress than good.

No expert here either but why The large multiple WCs dakly?? It's. Not like you are trying to correct sickness from a water quality issue but rather stress brought up by heater failure.

I'm sure they fish are plenty stressed from the temp in the 50s then also the huge swing up to 89. If you are changing large amounts of water twice per day you may also be having fluctuations in temp twice a day.

In the meantime get yourself an inkbird controller with audible alarms. Will be the best $30-$40 you've ever spent.

Good luck hope your fish recover. I'm sure some expert members will have some good advice for you

pitdogg2
10-17-2016, 04:56 PM
do your once daily WC with the correct temp water and leave the temp at 86 for awhile. This will help if they caught Ick from the temp stress and help kick start their appetite other than that leave well enough alone and let them settle.

At the temp you described I'm surprised they lived.

Altum Nut
10-17-2016, 07:20 PM
The only thing I would add besides what was mentioned above is extra air. Really surprised they are not gasping at the surface.

...Ralph

Jenene
10-17-2016, 08:56 PM
Very true. You may be causing more stress than good.

No expert here either but why The large multiple WCs dakly?? It's. Not like you are trying to correct sickness from a water quality issue but rather stress brought up by heater failure.

I'm sure they fish are plenty stressed from the temp in the 50s then also the huge swing up to 89. If you are changing large amounts of water twice per day you may also be having fluctuations in temp twice a day.

In the meantime get yourself an inkbird controller with audible alarms. Will be the best $30-$40 you've ever spent.

Good luck hope your fish recover. I'm sure some expert members will have some good advice for you

I am no expert either but a +1 to Ryan's suggestion on getting an Inkbird but beware which model. I had the 310 model which does not have a low temp alarm. I did not realize it until it malfunctioned due to a hardware issue and turned off my heaters. The 308 model only allows you to use one heater but if it fails it will alert you at high and low temperatures that you preset. So I just keep a spare heater on hand. The company stood by their product and sent me the 308 as a replacement. Now I can sleep at night. Here is a link:
https://www.amazon.com/Inkbird-Itc-308-Temperature-Controller-Thermostat/dp/B011296704/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1476751808&sr=8-1&keywords=inkbird+temperature+controller

Good luck on getting them back to full health!

Running Wolf
10-18-2016, 02:38 AM
Thanks for the replies.

The LFS discus expert (ex-breeder) has paid a house visit, and was a bit taken aback at how the fish looked. They haven't improved at all since this morning. They now have cloudy looking eyes (it looks as if they are in urgent need of cataract surgery) and it looks a s if some of their slime coat is missing.

I now have some meds in the tank (on the advice of the LFS expert). So it's lights off, no pwc's no food and a lot of keeping fingers and toes crossed for the next 72 hours. Will be dosing the tank again tomorrow and gain on Wednesday. I am hoping they bounce back as quickly as they have gone downhill.

Second Hand Pat
10-18-2016, 08:11 AM
Generally when using meds with discus you do a large water change prior to redosing. What did the LFS guy recommend?
Pat

Running Wolf
10-18-2016, 04:04 PM
Hi Pat,

He said to leave the water as is, just add the second lots of meds. i will call him today and recheck though

Running Wolf
10-18-2016, 04:15 PM
Hi Pat,

He didn't say anything about a water change. i will call him later just to make sure before I add the next dose.

I have also read this morning, that dosing should be done every second day. Is this normal, or do most people dose on consecutive days?

Running Wolf
10-20-2016, 05:47 AM
Quick update - 2 fish dead a couple looked as if they weren't long for this tank but have rallied a little today the remaining 4 seem to be ok

Second Hand Pat
10-20-2016, 06:11 AM
Sorry about the fish :( but what med did your lfs guy recommend?
Pat

Running Wolf
10-21-2016, 04:13 AM
Hi Pat. I think it is Metro. You can't buy it over the counter here in Australia. The packaging I got it in says water conditioner for bloat and hole in the head. I was 2 tab for every 20 litres. Dose for 3 consecutive days. I am currently doing a water change. As per the instructions on the "master" packaging.

5 fish look ok but one looks very sick. It's either lying on the bottom of the tank or just floating around as if it has no energy to keep itself upright. Then it swim for a few minutes before either sinking to the bottom or floating around the tank again.

The plan now is to keep the lights of until tomorrow and then give them a small amount of food. Test the water to check levels and possibly add some stability to try and stop the cycles tank from crashing. If the water parameters are ok I will hold off doing any water changes tomorrow (Saturday) but will do 30% on Sunday, unless anyone has any better treatment plan.

Second Hand Pat
10-21-2016, 09:52 AM
Usually with discus the treatment protocol is difference than with other aquarium fish but without knowing the active ingredient.. Generally with discus you do a large water change and redose the full amount after the water change. Sounds like your one fish has reached what I call the zombie stage and there is a chance it may not recover but I would like to be wrong.
Pat

Running Wolf
10-21-2016, 05:01 PM
I would be surprised it is survives. It's hanging in there (just) at the moment, but its not looking good

Running Wolf
10-22-2016, 01:26 AM
Third fish now dead. the remaining 5 look sort of OK but far from 100%

Lights on the tank, and going to try and feed them later.

Water parameters this morning were: -
pH - 6.4
ammonia - 0.25
nitrites - 0
nitrates - 0
KH - 3
GH - 4

Will test again tomorrow and will do a 30 - 50% water change depending on the level of the ammonia.

Not sure what else I can do at this stage. Any suggestions?

Kyla
10-22-2016, 09:21 AM
losing multiple fish like that over a period of days and because u mentioned the cloudy eye and the white spots prior to ur heater malfunction i'd be considering a possible bacterial infection. why did u think the fish had ick? had new fish been introduced to the tank recently (in previous two months)? if not, i highly doubt the protozoa was present in your tank without symptoms for that period of time and these spots could have been a symptom of something else.

do the fish still have cloudy eyes? im no expert so i wont recommend meds, but cloudy eyes can indicate bacterial infection. pics or video would be helpful. when i use metro, if thats what u r using, i redose the full amount daily with giant water changes. but what is the metro supposed to be treating? typically i would use it if a fish shows symotoms of hex, eg white poop, actual holes in the face (HITH) etc. i dont think u mentioned these symptoms.

i also recommend the inkbird. ive got one and i love it. one of my heaters failed last winter and my beautiful albino discus died as well as some fancy plecos. my basement gets SO cold in the winter i feel much safer with the inkbird.

Kyla
10-22-2016, 09:46 AM
also, u prob have already done this, but i just wanted to check that u have age-tested ur tap water to rule out ph swings during wc? and prior to noticing the white spots, what was ur wc routine? and approx how often do u clean out ur canister? they can harbour a lot of gunk which is out of sight but is still within the water column and affecting the fish.

Kyla
10-22-2016, 09:52 AM
this questionnaire helps ppl get a better idea of what is happening in ur tank as well:

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?38545-Disease-Questionnaire-please-complete

this post is more appropriate for the emergency room area, as the forum generally doesnt want newbies (like me) giving treatment advice ;)

DiscusRob
10-22-2016, 12:44 PM
Third fish now dead. the remaining 5 look sort of OK but far from 100%

Lights on the tank, and going to try and feed them later.

Water parameters this morning were: -
pH - 6.4
ammonia - 0.25
nitrites - 0
nitrates - 0
KH - 3
GH - 4

Will test again tomorrow and will do a 30 - 50% water change depending on the level of the ammonia.

Not sure what else I can do at this stage. Any suggestions?

Any ammonia in the water is toxic to Discus, any fish for that matter, I'd be doing some water changes immed. I wouldn't wait till tomorrow.

ozone
10-26-2016, 05:47 AM
Any ammonia in the water is toxic to Discus, any fish for that matter, I'd be doing some water changes immed. I wouldn't wait till tomorrow.
That med I know...It is octozin by waterlife which is dimetro as in the pig and pidgeon metro the only one that is commercially available in OZ that does the job of the vet drug metronidazole! Give him the metro regime as the crappy waterlife one is just a three day course amount not the ten day one..quite economical you can get a 200 tab tub for $60 odd dollars plus shipping online. If you see a vet for any other animals give them a hoy and see if they can get you some metronidazole! Di metro is just as effective I believe! Your on the right course....I bought a big tub of dimetro in 2002 for $50 from the vet. It used to dissolve much better than the normal old metro which never dissolved properly. Hope they survive

ozone
10-26-2016, 06:04 AM
For your ammonia you need to hit them with a water change also seachem prime or continuum fraction will zap your ammonia down for an emergency then waterchanges daily before you add the dimetro. if you need a barrel for waterchanges home brewer beer barrels can suffice as long as they have a bung not a tap and a 2000lph powerhead with some 12/16mm filter hose! critical care until they recover! I'm battling the bad case of the gill flukes at the moment it's a hassle but to save them it's the only choice.

ozone
10-26-2016, 06:27 AM
Also considering your ammonia is up you can put in seachem stability....my fish looked a bit iffy this morning and I was a bit worried the ammonia may crop up...some people say to add bacteria booster twelve hours after you put the meds in if your filters under stress it all helps.

DiscusRob
10-26-2016, 08:18 AM
That med I know...It is octozin by waterlife which is dimetro as in the pig and pidgeon metro the only one that is commercially available in OZ that does the job of the vet drug metronidazole! Give him the metro regime as the crappy waterlife one is just a three day course amount not the ten day one..quite economical you can get a 200 tab tub for $60 odd dollars plus shipping online. If you see a vet for any other animals give them a hoy and see if they can get you some metronidazole! Di metro is just as effective I believe! Your on the right course....I bought a big tub of dimetro in 2002 for $50 from the vet. It used to dissolve much better than the normal old metro which never dissolved properly. Hope they survive

I didn't mention any meds, I said to start doing water changes immediately to reduce or remove the ammonia that is in the water.

bluelagoon
10-26-2016, 12:24 PM
From what I've read on Seachem Stability;you should use Prime along with it to detoxify ammonia and nitrites.

ozone
10-27-2016, 02:52 AM
You said that the guy from the LFS put meds in the tank...Also it says water conditioner for bloat and hex. As far as I know this is the only one on the Market in OZ https://www.aquaticsupplies.com.au/collections/medications-treatments/products/waterlife-o-conditioner-200-tabs?variant=18414496263 Everything Metro these days in OZ is vet only except this!!

ozone
10-27-2016, 03:41 AM
I thought the dude from the LFS was recommending the metro...I have had a similar experience to you! See that fish in my profile picture it was a female of a breeding pair, my folks went to Europe and I was staying at their place at night to look after their dogs and coming back to my place the next day to do my water changes. I had two pairs in a 3x2x2 with an automatic feeder tetra bits...The tanks were in the garage and it was a cold june night in Melbourne. Got to the house and noticed the front door was sitting funny a slight gap..Checked the fish in the garage....All dead I checked the power box and it was off so I switched it on and the house alarm was going off...Some burglar set off the alarm door trip and switched the power off to see if the alarm would stop...I think, it's still a mystery but $800 worth of discus were chilled to death...must have got there two hours late to save them! I had two heaters in the tank as I have had the heater mishap before where one fails. I never bought another Discus again until two months back and a breeder gave me one with gill flukes HA that's why I'm back on Simply! So I hope your fish survive! Best of luck