What level of Nitrates should I aim for?

[Keith024]

Hi everyone,

As some of you know I am currently setting up a 93 Gallon tank with sump filter and was wondering what would be a safe level of Nitrates. I know zero (0) is the best or the least possible amount, but how much would be regarded as an OK level of Nitrates in a Discus tank? So to have a sort of bench mark and make sure to never ever go over that as much as possible...

Many thanks
Keith

[Ryan925]

Hi everyone,

As some of you know I am currently setting up a 93 Gallon tank with sump filter and was wondering what would be a safe level of Nitrates. I know zero (0) is the best or the least possible amount, but how much would be regarded as an OK level of Nitrates in a Discus tank? So to have a sort of bench mark and make sure to never ever go over that as much as possible...

Many thanks
Keith

Yes less the better. Most would say 5-10 range. Def no more than 10 preferably 5 as you can't have 0 in a ****ed tank

[Keith024]

thats really low! thats what I have right now in the first week of cycling the tank without any fish!

[Clawhammer]

What is your planned WC schedule? If you are doing significant daily WC's, you won't have to worry about nitrates. I do 50% WC's daily and my nitrates are always less than 5ppm

[Keith024]

30% every other day is the plan so far...

[Ryan925]

30% every other day is the plan so far...

What size fish arw you planning. The smaller you get the more WCs they will need. Most will say 50% + daily.

My fish are 4.5"-5.5".. I do about 80% every other day

The more you do the better growth and appearance you will see in your face.

Right now I am planning a sump build that will add a lot of volume and filtration to my tank however my WCs will remain the same

[Keith024]

Thats the size I am planning to get and I have a large 80 ltr sump filter too.

[DJW]

If you have 0 nitrate in your tap water its not difficult, with frequent water changes, to keep the nitrate level below 10 ppm. But if you have nitrate of more than 10 ppm from the tap you have to weigh it against the cost and hassle of using RO. In that case you might decide to draw the line at 20 ppm.

[Clawhammer]

First, kudos for gathering all this information before getting your fish, I wish I could say I did the same.

My advice would be to put a lot of effort and some extra $ into making water changes as easy and fast as possible while you are setting things up. IME water changes are the key and putting some thought and pumps into action make life and discus happier.

Nitrates stress discus and are good to track because they are an indicator of "dirty water". In addition to nitrates there are also other things in the water that are harmful to discus that we do not test for (waste, dissolved organic compounds, etc). These things also can only be removed from the water column through WC's.

Keep in mind that the younger the discus, the more sensitive they are to these things and the more frequent the WC's should be.

[Keith024]

If you have 0 nitrate in your tap water its not difficult, with frequent water changes, to keep the nitrate level below 10 ppm. But if you have nitrate of more than 10 ppm from the tap you have to weigh it against the cost and hassle of using RO. In that case you might decide to draw the line at 20 ppm.

DJW,

Many thanks for your input and much needed advise.

My tap water is high in nitrates, PH and Hardness so I decided to go for an RO. I setup a tank in the back balcony of may apartment which can only take around 120 ltrs (misses wont accept anything larger!!) while the aquarium and sump can take nearly 400 ltrs. Thus at best I can make 25% to 30% every day due to the size of the tank.

[Keith024]

First, kudos for gathering all this information before getting your fish, I wish I could say I did the same.

My advice would be to put a lot of effort and some extra $ into making water changes as easy and fast as possible while you are setting things up. IME water changes are the key and putting some thought and pumps into action make life and discus happier.

Nitrates stress discus and are good to track because they are an indicator of "dirty water". In addition to nitrates there are also other things in the water that are harmful to discus that we do not test for (waste, dissolved organic compounds, etc). These things also can only be removed from the water column through WC's.

Keep in mind that the younger the discus, the more sensitive they are to these things and the more frequent the WC's should be.

Clawhammer many thanks for your reply and input which is greatly appreciated.

Yes I am trying to kill the time until the tank is cycled and get as much info as possible, also I would like to try to learn with the less amount of mistakes as possible and not the hard way if I can at all...

I have a relative easy to use setup which can be much better of course, as I said before I setup an RO which is in the kitchen near the aquarium from there I had planned a pipe which goes under the ground towards the back balcony were I have a 120 ltr circa storage tank to store RO water which is constantly aerated and has a heater in order to heat it as needed. I did not plan for as much water changes when I was finishing off the apartment and wasnt even sure what fish to get. So unfortunatley I did not pass another pipe towards the Aquarium underground and also did not make a drain near it. It can be done now but with more work and lots of hassle from the misses, but will be done when the time is right... I will let her make a couple of ware changes when I am away and she will quickly realise how easier it can be made!

For now I have to lay a 25 mtr pipe with a submersible pipe inside the storage tank to the aquarium and another from the aquarium to the bathroom for drainage. It takes about an hour to do a water change, its not that bad for now.

Do you guys test for anything else apart from PH, Ammonia, Nitrites, Nitrates, Hardness, TDS maybe?

I am planning to get juveniles at around 4 to 5 inches, as they told me that they would have passed their critical age and their immune system would be stronger than younger ones.

I will also make sure I do not have a bio overload and will keep I think a maximum of 8 maaaaybbeeee 10 discuss (if I manage more water changes and nitrates stay low, will have to see...)

[Keith024]

102933

This is the tank waiting for fish :)

I am adding Preis Discus Minerals to the water since I am passing it through the RO. How do you guys recommend to add it to the water before a water change? I was considering adding it directly to the storage tank and let it mix for some time with aeration since I would be using 90% or so of it (as much as the submersible pump can pick).

Do you think this is a good idea? or will it leave any residue in the tank or something?

Many thanks once again! :)

[DJW]

Hi Keith. I noticed in another thread that your RO water has TDS of about 90 ppm. This is already a pretty good amount so I'm thinking, Why add Preis Minerals? Unless your water is desalinated or something, where the majority of the mineral is salt, this should be plenty of minerals.

With water that hard you will want to check the TDS periodically to see how the membrane is doing, and check the ratio of waste water to RO product water to see if it is increasing. Does the RO filter have a flushing valve?

I don't think anybody knows what is in Preis Diskus Mineral, it is apparently a secret formula. You can mix it directly in the storage barrel and see if there is some remaining undissolved on the bottom. If there is, you can just rinse it out sometimes so it doesn't accumulate. When I mix minerals separately in a pitcher they won't dissolve very well due to the higher concentration.

[Keith024]

Hi Keith. I noticed in another thread that your RO water has TDS of about 90 ppm. This is already a pretty good amount so I'm thinking, Why add Preis Minerals? Unless your water is desalinated or something, where the majority of the mineral is salt, this should be plenty of minerals.

With water that hard you will want to check the TDS periodically to see how the membrane is doing, and check the ratio of waste water to RO product water to see if it is increasing. Does the RO filter have a flushing valve?

I don't think anybody knows what is in Preis Diskus Mineral, it is apparently a secret formula. You can mix it directly in the storage barrel and see if there is some remaining undissolved on the bottom. If there is, you can just rinse it out sometimes so it doesn't accumulate. When I mix minerals separately in a pitcher they won't dissolve very well due to the higher concentration.

Hi again DJW and thanks once again for helping out all the newbies here :)

Yes TDS are 86PPM straight out of the RO. In Malta most of the water is desalinated since it is extracted from the sea due to the fact that water is limited on such a small island. We also get water from the water table (underground) but one cant really tell from where exactly his tap water is coming from... So yes I guess and thats what I learnt that other Discus keepers here do, they add minerals to their RO water. With regards to the amount, I am currently abiding by the instructions on the Preis package which states that 15g should be added to each 100ltrs of water when using RO water. Maybe I should add less since I have relatively high TDS?

With regards to aging I am not really aging my RO water, at least not more than 24 hours. I hope thats fine?

I normally mix the minerals like you said in a pitcher and add it into the aquarium during the water changes however the aquarium is still empty, I think adding the mixed minerals to the storage tank some time before the water change would be better when there is fish in the Aquarium.

[DJW]

In the instructions for the minerals, they are assuming that you have typical RO water, which has a TDS between 0 to 10 ppm and is almost entirely devoid of minerals. The amount they have you adding, if added to pure water, would raise the TDS by something like 120 ppm. Since you are starting at 90 ppm, you should be able to add less, or none at all.

Your RO filter is not doing a very good job of reducing the TDS. The most common cause is low pressure in the house, while in your case it could partly be the extra hard water. If you do some reading on reverse osmosis you might see a way to improve it.

[Keith024]

Ah ok so I can adjust the minerals I add to aim at getting a 120ppm TDS, by experience I should arrive to an ideal amount to mix or none at all as you said. One has to keep in mind that the tap water is at over 680ppm straight out of the tap! I am no expert, but do you think reducing tds from 680 to 90ppm is not good?

Today I was at my father's house who lives around 15minutes away from me and he also has an RO, a differnet brand and his RO water is approx at the same PPM Round 90, so I am guessing it is due to the hardness of the tap water.