fish dying, help!

[FishyRobert]

Hi! have a problem.

have had 5 discus, 2 red had for many months, and 3 turquoise had for 2 weeks. very happy in a 40 gallon with Fluvalfilter and one large sponge filter.

yesterday, moved them to a 65 gallon, fits on the same stand, taller tank. removed sponge filter, kept Fluvial 406 filter

this morning one dying. red

just now, another red dead

3 turquoise gasping at top.

for air???

water OK and 84 degrees, could it be that the tank is TALLER, less oxygen?????

so i put TWO large sponge filters in, and an air hose bubbling the water. hope to save them.

the water i used yesterday was aged, and dechlorinated. i am not a beginner with fish.


HELP

any ideas?

bob:(

[nc0gnet0]

removed sponge filter, kept Fluvial 406 filter

There's your problem right there. Your sponge filter was responsible for more that 75% of your bio filtration is my guess. It's removal caused an ammonia and nitrite spike. Change water, change it now, and change a lot.

[FishyRobert]

thank you Ncogneto! will do. i am surprised, the fluvial 406 has that bio max filter media, should have TONS of bacteria!!!! i thought that 5 discus in a 65 would be pretty safe!!!!
what size tank do YOU have, how many fish, what filter, water changes?

thanks so much. bob

[Second Hand Pat]

Robert, sorry about the dead fish. Something to remember is there is only enough beneficial bacteria to support your bio-load (your fish) and you removed more than half of it. Now several large water changes are needed to save the fish as Rick suggested. Grab a water sample before the water change and measure the ammonia and nitrite when you get a chance. You will need to do a large water changes for about a week until the bacterial can catch up with your bio-load.
Pat

[FishyRobert]

thank you both! do you think it is the BACTERIA and not the oxygen level ??? wouldn't you think the Fluval 406 would have TONS of bacteria? it never stopped running. do you think the tall 65 gallon does NOT have enough surface area, for its depth, to provide OXYGEN?

doing a 50% water change right now.

question: i fill a 30 gallon plastic garbage can with water, and a strong pump. add Amquel plus and mix some hours. it is enough time to ???rid bad gases????? enter oxygen into the water????

would love any advice!

sensitive fish!

best regards bob

[Larry Bugg]

You need to understand a little more about beneficial bacteria. Any tank has a limit to how much bb it can produce and it doesn't matter how many filters you have it will not produce more than that limit. The limiting factor is the number of fish you have in the tank or the amount of food you provide the bb. The colony of bb will grow no larger than the amount of food available to it. Your fish produce waste and the bb are living off that waste. When you removed your filter part of the bb colony was residing there. If half was living there and the other half in the 2nd filter then you cut the bb colony in half.

[Second Hand Pat]

Bob, is there any air running in the tank? Please reread my prior post regarding bacteria bed vs bio-load. You generally age for about 24 hours however that would depend on your ph swing if you have one.
Pat

[Jason.M]

The 405 will need time to catch up with the bio load. Oxygen should not be an issue with your current setup. You will need to age the water and monitor the pH until it stabilizes to know how long to age it for. A few hours will likely not do it if aging is required. You added new fish a couple weeks ago, this could be your problem. Or maybe the 65 gallon had some contaminants in it.

[FishyRobert]

THANK YOU ALL!

Larry- that is a GOOD explanation. does that mean if i have TEN sponge filters, the bacteria would be split among them, and removing ONE would decrease good bugs by only 10%??????
Pat- it is easy for me to mix the water 24 hours before adding. i setup 30 gallons NOW, for tomorrow. no problem. it is mixing with a WATER pump, not air pump, but surface of water is really moving.
my 65: there are TWO large sponge filters hopefully adding oxygen, and bacteria.
Jason: yes, i added 3 blues about 2 weeks ago. THEY are alive, reds are dead. BUT, yesterday, the blues were gasping at the top, unhappy. i added TWO sponge filters, ran all night, they look good now. perhaps oxygen, not bacteria? the 65 was NEW tank.

THESE ARE SENSITIVE FISH!!! ha!!

i AM willing to do the work.
1. how much food would i feed them, daily? 3 medium discus, 7 small Aeneus catfish, one male Betta. 65 gallon TALL tank. one fluvial 406 canister filter with carbon and Purigen and Biomax ceramics for bacterial growth. two large sponge filters. for example, ONE cube of frozen Brine shrimp or bloodworms.?? TWO cubes daily? some flake food? pellets? i got freeze dried black worms from Al Sabetta.
2. how MUCH water to change, how often. tank is about 84 degrees. well controlled.
3. what to do with the 2 sponge filters, how often?

THANKS SO MUCH! i am willing to work to have this succeed. bob

[atlantadiscus]

Did you happen to "recharge" your Purigen when you moved your filter your new tank?

[FishyRobert]

thank you atlanta!

new Purigen, well rinsed as they say. good idea, though! i never recharge it, just discard. i appreciate all the help. look, either the oxygen was too low, or i removed TOO MUCH of the good bacteria. either way, sensitive fish! i would love any and all advice, i think discus are worth my effort, and the red ones were fine for many many months. bob:)

[bluelagoon]

Your probably already doing this.You say your not new to fish keeping but I'll throw it out there.Keep the feedings way down until your BB catch up.Get read of the carbon;you will be doing large and frequent WC's so it will not be needed.If there is substrate in will need cleaning as well along with WC's.

[FishyRobert]

THANK YOU Mervin! if YOU were running this tank, a tall 65 gallon, now has 3 discus, hope to have 5-6 in future. would you
1. keep using the FLUVAL 406 filter? my idea is the FLUVAL DOES have bacteria in it,especially in the substrate BIOMAX, and carbon, and "foam" mechanical filters, and to some extent, circulates the water.
2. add PURIGEN to the FLUVAL filter?
3. have HOW MANY sponge filters
4. change HOW MUCH of the water HOW OFTEN????
5. how much exactly would you feed, daily? now has 3 discus, 7 small AENEUS catfish, and one male Betta.

thanks so much! bob

[Ryan925]

THANK YOU Mervin! if YOU were running this tank, a tall 65 gallon, now has 3 discus, hope to have 5-6 in future. would you
1. keep using the FLUVAL 406 filter? my idea is the FLUVAL DOES have bacteria in it,especially in the substrate BIOMAX, and carbon, and "foam" mechanical filters, and to some extent, circulates the water.
2. add PURIGEN to the FLUVAL filter?
3. have HOW MANY sponge filters
4. change HOW MUCH of the water HOW OFTEN????
5. how much exactly would you feed, daily? now has 3 discus, 7 small AENEUS catfish, and one male Betta.

thanks so much! bob

IMO the 406 should be plenty of filtration for the 65. Like others have said it needs to "catch up." keep changing lots of water daily and test water daily. Keep that ammonia and nitirite down 'til your BB catches up.

In my eheim I removed all mechanical filtration. I use a pre filter on intake. Also no carbon. Lots of bio and some purigen.

I do about 80% wc every other day with my 75G. I feed three times per day. Cobalt flakes in am, BH in afternoon and FDBW in pm. I clean pre filter every water change and wipe down glass and vac.

I don't see that you ever told us about your tank. BB? Substrate?? Pics?

[FishyRobert]

thank you Ryan! your feeding> what is FDBW?
please- how many discus in your 75 gallon?
my new 65 gallon, just set up. one inch of pool filter sand. getting driftwood now, just have plastic plants now, and 2 large sponge filters. will get ammonia and nitrite tests.

THANKS SO MUCH, EVERYONE!!!! i KNOW i can do this. my goal, a very happy 65 with 4-6 discus.

best regards, Bob

[Ryan925]

thank you Ryan! your feeding> what is FDBW?
please- how many discus in your 75 gallon?
my new 65 gallon, just set up. one inch of pool filter sand. getting driftwood now, just have plastic plants now, and 2 large sponge filters. will get ammonia and nitrite tests.

THANKS SO MUCH, EVERYONE!!!! i KNOW i can do this. my goal, a very happy 65 with 4-6 discus.

best regards, Bob

I have 7 4.5"-5.5" in my 75. FDBW = freeze dried black worms.

I was feeding the fdbw twice per day but just started adding flakes to their diet. Also trying to get them to eat forrests aquabits

[FishyRobert]

thank you ryan!

i did get fdbw from al Sabetta, great!

have a great day!

[Neptune]

My goodness man, why are you throwing away your Purigen? For two cents of chlorine you can recharge it for multiple uses.

[Ryan925]

thank you ryan!

i did get fdbw from al Sabetta, great!

have a great day!

I get mine from Al as well. Great product and great customer service plus help out SD with the purchase.

My goodness man, why are you throwing away your Purigen? For two cents of chlorine you can recharge it for multiple uses.

I'm guilty of the same. I toss mine too

[bluelagoon]

I find it difficult to give a good answer on your WC's.The size and age of the discus matter.So, at least 50% every other day for three 5.5"- 8" adult discus with tank mates.At least 50% every day for 6 adult discus,tank mates and substrate in a 65 gal.If you have ammonia or nitrites your'll need to change out more water and keep the feedings down to once day until the filter catches up.No more than the fish can consume in 10 minutes.I feed my adults at least once a day and sometimes twice but they are grown out;the smallest one being a 6" albino female and the biggest reflection deep at 8.5".If you get young fish then I would change at least 50% water every day after your tank becomes stable.Best to raise them in a bare bottom tank.It will be much easier to maintain better conditions for them until there ready for substrate and plants.Discus grow most in their first year and they seem to never catch up once stunted.

[FishyRobert]

thank you blue lagoon! I ordered ammonia and nitrite test kit. changing 50% daily. fish look GREAT, eating well, very feisty! I hope the tests show me something.!! I have about one inch of pool filter sand, a few plastic plants, catfish clean bottom. tank LOOKS clean, will see what the tests show!
best
bob:)