Water bridge for added water volume ? Yes or no ?

[Candydiscus]

I have alot of aquariums, about 8 of them.. But all of em are 55g and under, the biggest is my 92g corner with my discus in my bedroom. I have a 55g,44 pentagon,30g, 27g hex, and then bunch of smaller tanks.

I've been on a mission latetly to keep the nitrates down in my 92g discus tank, i simply grow tired of daily to every 2 days 80% water changes, and its really killing my water bill. I have so far removed the substrate i originally had which was a floramax original. I rather like the colors it had, reason i removed it is i figured it was just a nitrate factory being 2 years old. I never siphoned it for 2 years because i had alot of aquarium plants.. At first i removed the plants and driftwood and siphoned the crap out of it, for 2 days.. its was fairly clean.. then i put the plants back in.. But with this gravel and its orangine/red/black color it hides foods, waste, everything i also have these little cone shaped pest snails.. They dont get big like malaysian trumpets.. they stay the size of a pencil tip and are cone shaped.. And im sure i had thousands of em in the tank as my sponged always felt crunchy with em crawling in there.

So i decided to just completetly remove the substrate, and i switched to black sand. Obviously this didnt remove all the snails.. but it got rid of 95% of them, and with black sand i do daily vacuumes now of maybe 10% of my water just to remove the waste thats on top of it. With a corner tank like mine i have flow in the tank moving in a circular motion. All the food and waste that doesnt get eatin or picked up by the filters naturally flows in the middle of the tank due to the circular shape and motion of the tank and water flow.. Its actually really cool and makes it super easy to clean. Anyway, cleaned the canister top to bottom as they become nitrate factories (even though i use a sponge on the inlet to keep food and waste out).. Everything i did helped alot.. Nitrates are now more stable.. 2-3 days and they are still orangish on the API test.. Of course the API liquid test sucks because 5-10-20 all the look identicle to me. Maybe 5 is a tad lighter.. But with 2-3PPM nitrates in my city tap water itll always read 5ppm no matter what.. So i safely assume nitrates are around 10-20. Whats odd is the master kit nitrate colors 5-20 are near identicle and on the single kit 20 is red and 10 is orange lol.. API XXXXXX whatever..

Anyway. Sorry for making this so long.. I also have add'd 3 bags of Nitra Zorb from API.. This stuff works great.. 4 days in and nitrates are still light orange to orange so still 5-20ppm. Usually itd be red.. However these packs are only good for 2 months and very expensive. I also have made a denitrate/matric reactor.. it holds 3L total and flow is 28-33GPH using the outlet of my canister split two ways, one going to the tank one to the reactors (to cut flow).. Im hoping in a month or so the bacteria that eat nitrates grow and actually do something.. well see.

On top of all i have done.. my main question is would a Water bridge be something i should look into ? I currently have the 27g hex in my room already and it along with the 44g pentagon are the only tanks the same height as the 92g (28 inches tall and you need the same height tanks for a water bridge siphon)... Nothing is in it really. some guppies i would remove, my betta, and a bristlenose pleco.. I was thinking of cleaning the tank really good, removing the substrate and washing it good to remove any nitrate creating waste on it.. (floramax black) and then putting all my water lillies in it. It has alot already but these red lilly plants eat nitrates like crazy, same with the water sprite if i dont remove it and just let it grow wild. So putting this 27g next to the 92g and putting a pvc pipe in the two to make a water bridge.. and just put the flow from my denitrate reactors into the 27g thus combined both tanks water volume for a total of 120g.. You think 27g more water would help dillute nitrates ? along with high light and all those plants in the 27g. Or is it not worth it ? Idealy i would want to use my 44g pentagon, for nearly 140g of water.. But my mom uses it for her two angle fish and i dont think shed like if i moved it lol

[bluelagoon]

Something new here for me.What is a water bridge?What kind of bacteria eat nitrates?How big are your discus? How old are they and how many in the tank.Left over food is an over feeding isssue.Decaying plant matter is another issue,even tho plants use nitrates.It all adds to the bio load.

[Neptune]

ya what's a water bridge?
Also explain your denitrate/matrix reactor.

Thanks.

[Kyla]

if u want the benefit of plants but dont want the gravel, i would recommend adding a ton of cut pothos vines to ur discus tank. they will send roots straight into the tank and suck up lots of nitrates. cant get around wc tho, u still need them even if ur nitrates are low.

http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm182/kylasfish/Mobile%20Uploads/98C13095-3B49-45FA-9657-7D911D3188EC_zpsiudqqnux.jpg (http://s296.photobucket.com/user/kylasfish/media/Mobile%20Uploads/98C13095-3B49-45FA-9657-7D911D3188EC_zpsiudqqnux.jpg.html)

[RogueDiscus]

I think OP described the WB: just a u-shaped length of pvc used to connect the two (3?) tanks. They would siphon together and create a larger volume system. With that in mind, the last paragraph question is clearer.

[bluelagoon]

Is that like pumping dirty water from one tank to the next?Hopefully this is not the idea.There's really no way to avoid water WC's for discus.There's other stuff like DOC/TDS,bacteria loads ect..

[Willie]

If you just go to a bare bottom tank, then an 80% water change is exactly the same amount of work as a 100% water change. Put in a large piece of driftwood and grow some Porthos is tank decor is important. Otherwise, you seem to be going to a lot of trouble to make minor improvements to water quality. If your objective is better quality water, there are simpler solutions.

Willie

[Jenene]

If I am understanding correctly this is what is being referred to- making two smaller tanks into a larger on by volume. Would think it would be a tricky undertaking with the size of Discus and the cleaning it would require. 104315

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1tmsHa5spqc

[Ryan925]

I think you need to question is why your nitrates are climbing so rapidly

[Jenene]

I think you need to question is why your nitrates are climbing so rapidly

Good point Ryan. Back to basics first and foremost.

[atlantadiscus]

instead of co mingling tanks together,why not use a sump filter system on your one tank? You can make it as large as you want to add volume to the system-and not waste one/two of your tanks.

[Phillydubs]

Not to thread hack but Kyla can you tell me more about those plants? Or maybe start a new thread w your experience with them and level of care and or issues with them or benefits. Beside what you already mentioned. I'm very interested in trying that.

[Candydiscus]

Uhg you guys didnt read my whole post did you ?

I found out why my nitrates were going up so high it was because my old substrate "i didnt vacuum due to my plant" once i vacuumed it, and then just removed it completetly and put in fresh black sand the nitrates slowed down, and then when i cleaned the entire canister out which are nitrate factories they slowed down even more.

I have 7 discus in my tank, 55-60 neon tetra's, 2 adult siamese algae eaters, 1 rainbow shark, 3 cory cats, 2 otto, and 2 gold barbs in my 92g corner tank. So my bio to begin with is kinda high plus i feed my discus 2 maybe times a day using 2 cubes each beef heart and blood worms, then a pinch of flakes for my neons and other fish. And no i dont have food sitting on the bottom. With black sand you can see any and every little spec of dirt/poo ect..

Plus remember I JUST put in the sand.. so there is nothing fermenting in the substrate lol, and with the black sand whatever poo or whatever is left i vacuum every day for a min or two just to clean it up. I just fed them my 4 cubes of food i mentioned above it was all over the substrate.. then after like 10 minutes its completetly gone now. I have 2 large amazon swords, a giant peice of driftwood with java fern and some telenthara renekie a red tall plant in the back.. I dont have millions of fast growing plants.. Plants dont do **** to nitrates unless you have ALOT of fast growing plants, CO2 and high lighting. Trust me ive been doing this for 20 years.. nitrates is the last thing plants actually try to suck up. Look it up its a scientific fact.

Anyway, my nitrates obviously still rise despite what i did, i still have to do 80% water changes every 2-3 days.. at least its better then every day. Also remember my tap has 2-5 PPM nitrate in it. So if im at 15ppm nitrates and i do a 80% water change im putting 5ppm back in.

Reason i wanted to do a water bridge was to use the 27g hex as a sort of sump.. For more water volume and put nothing but nitrate soaking plants in it like the million tiger lotus i have in other tanks and water sprite. and maybe those porthos plants someone mentioned. An extra 27g of water would dillute nitrates by 30%.. So if i have 10ppm in the tank after say day 2 with my 92g.. Then with 30% less Id have only 7ppm. If i was at 20ppm in my 92g with 27g more and 30% nitrate dillution i would have only 14ppm instead. This 30% more water would allow me maybe 1-2 more days before i have to do a water change. The whole idea of this is stop doing 80 gallons of water every 2 days and give me a damn break from so much maintence if i can push it to 3 or 4 days instead.


Also i know this forum most of you are big on bare bottom tanks.. But no offense to your tanks at all but any BB tank is ugly as sin.. A glass shell with no bottom is hideous. Thats why i put black sand in, now i can vacuum everyday because i can see whats on the substrate now.


Basically a water bridge is to allow fish to swim from one tank to another.. and or they can share the water volume.. So instead of having a 92g tank "volume wise" i will have a 119g tank volume wise.. or if i use my 44g pentagon itll be 136g volume wise, i could use the 44 and 27g lol for 163g total water volume.. And the 27g or 44g wouldnt make nitrates as id have no fish in em and no food and nothing but plants and high light for nitrates.. My question is do you think itd be worth the effort to try this ? Its really no diff then someone putting say a 50g sump under their 150g tank. except i wont use it as a sump for bio media because i dont need bio media with my canister running.

Another way to think of this is, instead of buying a 150-200g tank which i dont have the money for ATM i could merge multiple tanks into one using 10$ in pvc pipes, sure yes i know the swimming room on a 92g corner vs a 150-200g tank is smaller but we all should know water volume plays a big part in water chemistry


Here are the home made reactors i made.. Basically my 2217 eheim canister flows into the first 1L bottle with matrix,denitrate in it. Then it has two exits.. one to the tank and one to a bigger 2L bottl with matrix and denitrate in it. The flow coming out of the 2nd container is only 28GPH which i measured using a 2g container and timed it and did the math. The flow coming out of the 1st bottle back into the tank is about 57gph. The denitrate says you need 50gph or less for denitrate to grow anaerobic bacteria because of the O2 in the water, but since the flow going to these reactor is from the exit of my canister.. there shouldnt be much O2 left and whatever is left should be used up by the matrix and the slow flow on both bottles. So essentually i have created two mini canisters after my main canister that have slow flow due to them being split up. Make sense ? Itll take a month or so for tthe anaerobix bacteria to grow if it does so i should know if this will work or not by then. I've seen other people do this and it worked.

The other two pics of the tanks im talking about merging. Obviously ill clean up the 27g so it wont create nitrates and ill remove all the fish in it to other tanks. sorry for the messy desk lol

104341

http://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/j385/enclave12/fish%20tank%201_zpsek3dqkxz.jpg

http://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/j385/enclave12/fish%20tank%202_zpshmcqwqls.jpg

[Kyla]

i read ur original post, i just think its more work than its worth. plants r nice, but they dont replace wc.

when i wc 90gal out of my 180gal i fantasize about having a just 90 gal tank so it would be a 100% wc, instead of a 50% wc. i swear my fish grew better in the smaller tank with the same % wc. your bridges would have to extend deep into the tank to prevent them from draining during wc.

when i felt my hobby was too much $/time i dismantled tanks so i could focus more on the discus tank. i just emptied my 210gal and put it on kijiji the other day. i could have water-bridged the 180g to the 210g but i kinda feel i'm saving more effort by just minimizing tanks and making wc more efficient/easier. I also rehomed fish (tetras and plecos) to reduce the load on the tank itself, instead of increasing the tank size.

[Second Hand Pat]

I think you should clarify your goals; reduce nitrates and increase water volume? The pothos would be a super easy way to reduce nitrates and the water bridge sounds overly complex IMO.
Pat

[bluelagoon]

That is a nice looking tank by the way.The swords look well.I would just go with a high lite sump and those water sprite in it.They are the best nitrate filtering plants you can get.Don't make it too complicated.

[Candydiscus]

i read ur original post, i just think its more work than its worth. plants r nice, but they dont replace wc.

when i wc 90gal out of my 180gal i fantasize about having a just 90 gal tank so it would be a 100% wc, instead of a 50% wc. i swear my fish grew better in the smaller tank with the same % wc. your bridges would have to extend deep into the tank to prevent them from draining during wc.

when i felt my hobby was too much $/time i dismantled tanks so i could focus more on the discus tank. i just emptied my 210gal and put it on kijiji the other day. i could have water-bridged the 180g to the 210g but i kinda feel i'm saving more effort by just minimizing tanks and making wc more efficient/easier. I also rehomed fish (tetras and plecos) to reduce the load on the tank itself, instead of increasing the tank size.

Yes I know i still have to do water changes... but a 55g tank with 10 discus will be doing more water changes then a person with a 100g tank and 10 discus.. You know what i mean ? Re-homing 60 neons tetra's would defeat the point of my tank lol



I think you should clarify your goals; reduce nitrates and increase water volume? The pothos would be a super easy way to reduce nitrates and the water bridge sounds overly complex IMO.
Pat



How is it complex ? Its just some a straight PVC pipe with two 90 degree elbows ? I would move the hexagon 27g next to the 92g. It would look like this


104343



That is a nice looking tank by the way.The swords look well.I would just go with a high lite sump and those water sprite in it.They are the best nitrate filtering plants you can get.Don't make it too complicated.



Well sumps are more complicated then a simple pipe like in the picture above.. Also Sumps are noisy make alot of water noise. Remember this is in my bedroom. Not a fan of that, and i have to spend money to buy a pump and a fish tank to fit under it and im not even sure how to make a sump properly anyway and yea..

[Second Hand Pat]

Yes I know i still have to do water changes... but a 55g tank with 10 discus will be doing more water changes then a person with a 100g tank and 10 discus.. You know what i mean ? Re-homing 60 neons tetra's would defeat the point of my tank lol






How is it complex ? Its just some a straight PVC pipe with two 90 degree elbows ? I would move the hexagon 27g next to the 92g. It would look like this


104343






Well sumps are more complicated then a simple pipe like in the picture above.. Also Sumps are noisy make alot of water noise. Remember this is in my bedroom. Not a fan of that, and i have to spend money to buy a pump and a fish tank to fit under it and im not even sure how to make a sump properly anyway and yea..

How does that circulate water between the tanks? Seems like you would need two pipes (with elbows) with a pump on one end of one of the elbows. OK, that wording sort of sucks :(
Pat

[Candydiscus]

How does that circulate water between the tanks? Seems like you would need two pipes (with elbows) with a pump on one end of one of the elbows. OK, that wording sort of sucks :(
Pat



The bridge has a vacuum in it. If one tanks gets low, water from the other rushes through the pipe due to physics and it fills the other tank up until both are even.. Thats why if i did this i would have my canister suck water out of my 92g and the outlet would go to the 27g.. and the flow of water would go through the pipe from my 27g to my 92g to keep the 92g even in water level. So lets say i put the water bridge in my two tanks.. and my 92g tank is low by like 4-5 inches and my 27g is full to the brim.. water will naturally flow through the bridge to the 92g and fill it until the 27g gets to the same water line as the 92g due to the tanks being the same height..

Now if you do this to a say 24 inch tank on a 28 inch tank the 28 inch tank would try to fill the 24 inch tank to its level but instead water would overflow out of the 24 inch tank.. So for a water bridge to work you need two identical height tanks.

You dont need any pumps to push water through the pipes.. due to the physics the waterbridge has a vacuum if one tank gets low on water, the other tank will push water to the other tank trying to equalize itself. Its all simple physics. Look it up on google or watch these videos


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVStvupVAoU&t=109s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1tmsHa5spqc&t=145s

[DJW]

You will be using a pump to transfer water through the bridge, with some assistance from gravity. This is essentially a sideways sump rather than a sump where the water goes up and down. It should be quieter than a sump... instead of an overflow you have a canister intake, and instead of a return pump you have the bridge.

[atlantadiscus]

If you are OK with the aesthetics of having multiple different shape tanks jammed next to each other {and can even find a way to place them together to make that even possible given the corner placement and different shape tanks}- give it a try,you can always go to plan B if it does not suit your end goals.

[bluelagoon]

Ok,I've seen those before,just multiple tanks joined together.A fish hotel.So,your saying that one end of the canister (inlet/outlet) will be in two separate tanks to keep the flow moving thru them all.

[Kyla]

i see what u r saying, but for simplicity i would personally just get a larger tank if i wanted more volume... sell the two smaller ones and use the $ to buy a larger one, combine the fish and pothos or water sprite etc into one big tank.

all those fish prob look great in the tank, but 7 discus + 70 others is a lot of fish in a 92gal. when i had my oscar tank full to the brim i could not keep the nitrates down. i tried all sorts of things until i finally just choose my fav fish and rehomed the others. it gave me (and the oscars) breathing room.

im just thinking that long-term it would make more sense to save up and get the big tank u want/need, instead of stringing smaller tanks together.. its an interesting project tho and its totally up to you! def keep us updated if u decide to make the water bridge! would be neat to see how much of a difference the 27gal side sump makes.

[Ryan925]

Yes I know i still have to do water changes... but a 55g tank with 10 discus will be doing more water changes then a person with a 100g tank and 10 discus.. You know what i mean ? Re-homing 60 neons tetra's would defeat the point of my tank lol






How is it complex ? Its just some a straight PVC pipe with two 90 degree elbows ? I would move the hexagon 27g next to the 92g. It would look like this


104343






Well sumps are more complicated then a simple pipe like in the picture above.. Also Sumps are noisy make alot of water noise. Remember this is in my bedroom. Not a fan of that, and i have to spend money to buy a pump and a fish tank to fit under it and im not even sure how to make a sump properly anyway and yea..

This setup is different from what I saw described earlier in the post. This line is simply an equalizer line there is no vacuum water will always want to seek it's own level. This line will balance the water level if there is a change in either. Notice there is a sponge filter in each tank.

If you use a canister filter and one tank as an intake and one tank as a return that will pose other questions. How many gallons per minute will be drawn from the intake tank and returned to the return tank?? Will your eq line be sufficient to equalize the two tanks before the return tank overflow? If the two water levels are close to the same then the equalizing will be much slower than if there was a larger differential in water heights. The flow of water between the two would be dependant on head pressure. To me it would seem there is a lot of risk there of the return side tank to overflow.

I deal with this type of situation on a large scale with or profression so just friendly advice.

Imho a larger tank or a sump would be more efficient in what you are trying to do.

[Neptune]

Pretty sure that won't work.
Your canister is returning X gallons per hour under pressure from a head resistance.
The water transferring through that pipe is not under the same pressure and thus will not transfer the water at the same rate the pump is putting it in.
You will overflow your tank in no time.

Try it in the bath tub, pretty sure it won't work.

[Ryan925]

Pretty sure that won't work.
Your canister is returning X gallons per hour under pressure from a head resistance.
The water transferring through that pipe is not under the same pressure and thus will not transfer the water at the same rate the pump is putting it in.
You will overflow your tank in no time.

Try it in the bath tub, pretty sure it won't work.

Man that's what I just said lol.

I do this with fountains where a portion of it stops on one side of a walkway, slab etc then starts again on the other side. Typically a large elevation change is needed but also large diameter pipes is key. Proper engineering is key to avoid disaster.

And we are talking the opposite. Down then back up rather than up and over and back down

[Jenene]

Sorry...this is completely off topic but is that a giant spider on your lotion dispenser? 104367

[DJW]

It sure looks like a spider to me.

[Neptune]

Man that's what I just said lol.

I do this with fountains where a portion of it stops on one side of a walkway, slab etc then starts again on the other side. Typically a large elevation change is needed but also large diameter pipes is key. Proper engineering is key to avoid disaster.

And we are talking the opposite. Down then back up rather than up and over and back down

We are substrate bro's we think alike! LOL..

[Ryan925]

We are substrate bro's we think alike! LOL..

Lol very true

[Candydiscus]

Pretty sure that won't work.
Your canister is returning X gallons per hour under pressure from a head resistance.
The water transferring through that pipe is not under the same pressure and thus will not transfer the water at the same rate the pump is putting it in.
You will overflow your tank in no time.

Try it in the bath tub, pretty sure it won't work.

Thats why you use a bigger pipe man.. lol.... You think im going to make a dinky little pipe like in the picture i posted ? I would make multiple sizes and find which size is needed for the proper flow back to the 92g tank. The size would need to be about the diameter of a water bottle give or take. Also remember my canister is going into my denitrate reactors i made.. And the first reactor splits into two hoses one to the 2nd reactor, and the back into the tank. The flow coming out the first reactor hose that goes to the tank is only 60gph.. The flow coming out of the 2nd reactor is only 28-30gph.. For total flow of only 90gph or so. I can easily just put one reactor like the 60gph one into the 27g tank thus reducing the size pipe i need in the end.. My eheim 2217 only flows 117gph max when its clean and the hoses are clean.. You guys should know eheim classics or any canister dont flow advertized when packed with media. That 264gph is flow rate empty at the head lol

Also you dont need an elevation change... Because the water level creates the elevation change... AKA water leaving the 92g from the canister. come on guys this is simple basics lol...

Look it up on you tube if you dont believe me.. one video a guy has 3 55g tanks linked together using water bridges and he he is using 1 pump to pump water out one 55g and put it back in another 55g and water flows just fine between his 3 bridges.. He just uses a larger diameter pipe. Trust me itll work tons of people do it.


But i might also be able to get a 125g tank here.. I was scouring craigslist and i found one for $100.. yes 100$ for a 125, but it has a wrought iron stand with 4 legs.. not a fan of those for weight distribution on the floor. Its a 32 year old tank so itll need re-sealed and thats not a problem, and its probly 1/2 thick glass so it has no center brace and probly weighs a crap ton.. Also found another one for $150 with a wooden stand.. I might grab both actually and then sell one for a profit LOL.

or i might just do my water bridge idea im not sure yet. because im debating if my floor could handle 1500-1600 of weight on it i need to position the tank over floor joists. I can do that against a outside wall but itll block half of my window. Or i can put it on another outside wall but itll only be supported by 2 joists instead of 5.



Oh and no that lotion bottle i used when i got my tattoos to keep it moist when it was healing. One day i was bored and started doodling on it with a sharpie.. Im deathly afraid of spiders and every now and then when im not paying atten and i look at the bottle i often think there is a giant spider on it lol

[Jenene]

"Oh and no that lotion bottle i used when i got my tattoos to keep it moist when it was healing. One day i was bored and started doodling on it with a sharpie.. Im deathly afraid of spiders and every now and then when im not paying atten and i look at the bottle i often think there is a giant spider on it lol"

Yes, it is quite convincing! I am glad it wasn't just hanging out with you- that would be disturbing. :scared:

[bluelagoon]

If you have a bigger water volume;your'll be needing bigger wc's.It wouldn't matter if they're in 150 gal in one tank or three connected,it's all that same water.Especially if all tanks have something in them.It's all about the bio load of the hole system.

[Kyla]

Not to thread hack but Kyla can you tell me more about those plants? Or maybe start a new thread w your experience with them and level of care and or issues with them or benefits. Beside what you already mentioned. I'm very interested in trying that.

sorry i just saw this post now! ill start a thread asking for input and pics!

[Jack L]

Isn't your bio load just too high for the tanks you have to work with in general

[Candydiscus]

Ok update its been a few weeks now. I have my 135g tank running for about 2 weeks now and my denitrate things i made have been running for a month almost. And i am happoy to report seachems denitrate and matrix do work if used with low enough flow like i made.

My flow is around 20-30gph in my 2L denitrate bottle. I have about 50 neons, 7 discus, and 20 other various fish in the tank and i feed my tank 2 pinches of tetra flakes and about 6-7 cubes of beefheart 2-3x a day enough to cover the bottom of the tank for an hour until they eat it all and i havent done a water change in the last 4 days now and my nitrates are still 5-10ppm.. Still very light orange not even dark.. The only explanation is that my denitrate reactors are working ;-)

Im so happy i dont have to do water changes every day or two now

[Kyla]

glad it worked out with the larger tank and the items u made! share some pics of the new tank! :)

[Candydiscus]

Here is an older pic. I made a top recently out of 4 perfectly sized tempered glass tops for whicker tables i had outside. They were all 18 1/8 inches squared meaning all around ina square.. so 4 glass tops fits perfectly... Glad that worked out so i didnt have to spend money for a top. Also added another light on the left hand side as it was dimmer then the right. You cant see my discus in this pic as this was when i just set it up and they were all hiding


http://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/j385/enclave12/125g_zpska9wa6vf.jpg