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kimberly
12-04-2016, 10:27 AM
I noticed that as soon as I introduced new food, they resisted. I was warned about this behavior by a Simply Discus fellow traveler. Today is day 3 and I am beginning to worry that it is taking too long, they'll get sick, etc

First, I fed them blood worms and flakes. One could say they grew up on these meals. Now I want to bulk them up and give them a variety of healthy foods such as pellets, beef hearts, blackworms, and flakes.

I am not worried about changing to black worms because they already gobbled them down during the first test trial. Today I am going to buy beefheart.

Two of my Discus have starred at the algae chip for 24 hours. It fell between a drift wood . They are trying to eat that but not the pellets.

Two discus are eating the pellets, so 4 discus are not eating the pellets.

Help

Kimberly

adrian31@outlook.com
12-04-2016, 11:10 AM
So I take it that you have six Discus who are currently eating bloodworms, flakes, and blackworms pretty well. What size are they and how many feedings per day? What size tank and any tankmates?

Feeding new foods first thing in the morning when they're the hungriest is a good way to break them in to new foods.

Ryan925
12-04-2016, 01:45 PM
So I take it that you have six Discus who are currently eating bloodworms, flakes, and blackworms pretty well. What size are they and how many feedings per day? What size tank and any tankmates?

Feeding new foods first thing in the morning when they're the hungriest is a good way to break them in to new foods.

+1

When I started the pellets I fed them as the first meal of the day snd continued with their other foods for the second two feedings. At first they wanted nothing to do with the pellets. After a bit of time a couple of them started to pick at them. Once a couple started to eat them the rest caught on.

I was feeding pellets first feeding then BH and FDBW the rest of the day

Neptune
12-04-2016, 02:01 PM
If you have two eating, when the other 4 get hungry enough they wont want to miss out. Give it time, three days is not really a big deal.

kimberly
12-04-2016, 05:38 PM
So I take it that you have six Discus who are currently eating bloodworms, flakes, and blackworms pretty well. What size are they and how many feedings per day? What size tank and any tankmates?

Feeding new foods first thing in the morning when they're the hungriest is a good way to break them in to new foods.

Hi Adrian,
Thanks.
I have 6 discus with lots of energy. I bought them 6 months ago. I fed them frozen bloodworms and flakes religiously. Then, I fed them pellets only. Now it's been three days of pellets only and only two discus bought in on this new deal. The other four are not "drinking the kool laid" so to speak.

Do you think I should feed them pellets in the morning, then feed them blackworms and flakes later in the day?

kimberly
12-04-2016, 05:42 PM
If you have two eating, when the other 4 get hungry enough they wont want to miss out. Give it time, three days is not really a big deal.

Hi Neptune,
I noticed that your teenagers are beautiful and peaceful looking. I support what you say about giving them time. I'm glad to be here with such a good support system. Thanks, Kimberly

kimberly
12-04-2016, 05:45 PM
So I take it that you have six Discus who are currently eating bloodworms, flakes, and blackworms pretty well. What size are they and how many feedings per day? What size tank and any tankmates?

Feeding new foods first thing in the morning when they're the hungriest is a good way to break them in to new foods.

Sorry Adrian, I forgot to answer your questions. My tank is 60 gallons. I have 11 lemon tetras (very slow and peaceful kind), 2 clown loaches (who mind their own business), and a pleco (she's sweet and doesn't bother anyone). I have 4 four-inch discus and 2 three-inch discus. I was feeding them about 6 times per day with a 50% WC.

kimberly
12-04-2016, 05:48 PM
+1

When I started the pellets I fed them as the first meal of the day snd continued with their other foods for the second two feedings. At first they wanted nothing to do with the pellets. After a bit of time a couple of them started to pick at them. Once a couple started to eat them the rest caught on.

I was feeding pellets first feeding then BH and FDBW the rest of the day

Hi Ryan,
I really appreciate the discus support system on here. It makes the hobby and journey better knowing I am not alone. I hear you. It sounds like three days of food strike is not a long time and they will catch on. Do you think feeding them pellets in the am and BH and flakes later would be a healthier way to teach them to eat pellets? Why or why not?

Kimberly

adrian31@outlook.com
12-04-2016, 05:57 PM
Hi Adrian,
Thanks.
I have 6 discus with lots of energy. I bought them 6 months ago. I fed them frozen bloodworms and flakes religiously. Then, I fed them pellets only. Now it's been three days of pellets only and only two discus bought in on this new deal. The other four are not "drinking the kool laid" so to speak.

Do you think I should feed them pellets in the morning, then feed them blackworms and flakes later in the day?

Yes absolutely, what pellets are they?

kimberly
12-04-2016, 06:17 PM
Yes absolutely, what pellets are they?

Discus Chow
Do you think Discus Chow is healthy enough for bulking them up and meeting their needs? Why or why not?

Neptune
12-04-2016, 08:08 PM
Hi Neptune,
I noticed that your teenagers are beautiful and peaceful looking. I support what you say about giving them time. I'm glad to be here with such a good support system. Thanks, Kimberly

Thank you!

If they were eating before are healthy and not thin, they will start eating again.

I feed mine 4 times a day.
Hikari Discus pellets in the morning.
Omega flake food midday with an auto feeder.
Hikari pellets again between 4-6 pm
Then freeze dried blood worms around 9, lights off at 10.

I like feeding them a big high protein meal before bedtime.

adrian31@outlook.com
12-04-2016, 08:35 PM
Discus Chow
Do you think Discus Chow is healthy enough for bulking them up and meeting their needs? Why or why not?

Kimberly,

I honestly can't answer that as I don't have much experience with pellets, hopefully someone else can assist with this. I only use Tony Tan Grand Champion pellets which I got free with my Discus order. If it is the Discus Chow sold by SimplyDiscus LLC then I would venture to say it is very good.

Kenny

adrian31@outlook.com
12-04-2016, 08:48 PM
Sorry Adrian, I forgot to answer your questions. My tank is 60 gallons. I have 11 lemon tetras (very slow and peaceful kind), 2 clown loaches (who mind their own business), and a pleco (she's sweet and doesn't bother anyone). I have 4 four-inch discus and 2 three-inch discus. I was feeding them about 6 times per day with a 50% WC.

Hi Kimberly,

The tank has a substantial bio load given the occupants + 6 feedings daily IMO. I know it's a lot of work but don't let up on the maintenance at all or they'll feel it pretty quick. IMO 50% daily WC is doable if your general tank husbandry is impeccable - siphon waste + excess food after every meal, substrate, filters, tank walls.

I had eight 2.5" discus in a BB 55gal doing 50%-60% daily WC and lost a few after about 7 weeks because my general husbandry was insufficient. I never missed even one day of WC. I brought the surviving discus back to the pet store and got a 180gal and ordered Discus from a breeder/supplier. When I examined my 55gal afterward it was a mess and no wonder my fish got sick.

Best of luck to you, hope you don't mind the advice/concern.

Kenny

kimberly
12-04-2016, 09:14 PM
Thank you!

If they were eating before are healthy and not thin, they will start eating again.

I feed mine 4 times a day.
Hikari Discus pellets in the morning.
Omega flake food midday with an auto feeder.
Hikari pellets again between 4-6 pm
Then freeze dried blood worms around 9, lights off at 10.

I like feeding them a big high protein meal before bedtime.

Neptune,
I noticed that you are looking to round out your fish too. The reason I am asking about food is because I want to help them become healthy and round. I will post pictures soon as they get grounded into a routine with my new basic 5:

Aquatic Suppliers Discus Chow

Black Worms - cubed dried

Color Flakes

Discusgold premium pellets

Extensive WC

Frozen Beef Heart

kimberly
12-04-2016, 10:07 PM
Hi Kimberly,

The tank has a substantial bio load given the occupants + 6 feedings daily IMO. I know it's a lot of work but don't let up on the maintenance at all or they'll feel it pretty quick. IMO 50% daily WC is doable if your general tank husbandry is impeccable - siphon waste + excess food after every meal, substrate, filters, tank walls.

I had eight 2.5" discus in a BB 55gal doing 50%-60% daily WC and lost a few after about 7 weeks because my general husbandry was insufficient. I never missed even one day of WC. I brought the surviving discus back to the pet store and got a 180gal and ordered Discus from a breeder/supplier. When I examined my 55gal afterward it was a mess and no wonder my fish got sick.

Best of luck to you, hope you don't mind the advice/concern.

Kenny

Adrian,
I like that you are sharing your experience with me. It is all good. I hear you. Maybe I will increase my daily WC to 60% and lower my feedings to 5 daily feeds. Do you think that will be a healthy environment? Why or why not?
Kimberly

kimberly
12-04-2016, 10:23 PM
Hi Kimberly,

The tank has a substantial bio load given the occupants + 6 feedings daily IMO. I know it's a lot of work but don't let up on the maintenance at all or they'll feel it pretty quick. IMO 50% daily WC is doable if your general tank husbandry is impeccable - siphon waste + excess food after every meal, substrate, filters, tank walls.

I had eight 2.5" discus in a BB 55gal doing 50%-60% daily WC and lost a few after about 7 weeks because my general husbandry was insufficient. I never missed even one day of WC. I brought the surviving discus back to the pet store and got a 180gal and ordered Discus from a breeder/supplier. When I examined my 55gal afterward it was a mess and no wonder my fish got sick.

Best of luck to you, hope you don't mind the advice/concern.

Kenny
Adrian,
I forgot to say that I have a bottomless tank and a water movement pump. I don't siphon after each feeding. The water pump blows the waste toward a filter system. I have two filter systems. What do you think?

adrian31@outlook.com
12-04-2016, 10:49 PM
Adrian,
I forgot to say that I have a bottomless tank and a water movement pump. I don't siphon after each feeding. The water pump blows the waste toward a filter system. I have two filter systems. What do you think?

Hi Kimberly,

I think it's up for you to decide, but if it was me and the waste was being collected by a pre-filter I would rinse these off at least 3 times a day seeing as you have six feedings. As you probably know it's the dissolved solids in the water that affect Discus (and also breed bad bacteria), so waste/uneaten food shouldn't be left in water (includes filter) more than an hour IMO.

I'm aware of the mistakes I made with my first group, even though my water looked great it was actually toxic (to Discus anyway) and when my fourth fish, the biggest of my group, out of the blue just turned on his side then died an hour later, I had to really examine my maintenance. In my current 180gal + sump, I siphon waste/uneaten food 30 minutes after each feeding, but only feed my eleven Discus (all 4" to 6") 3 times daily. I clean all my pre-filters after each feeding as well. I'd have to say my entire tank + sump stays truly clean with this schedule. I'll add that I also do a more thorough weekly cleaning of my overflows and tank walls, and 1/2" sand substrate, and bi-weekly remove & clean my driftwood.

Kenny

kimberly
12-04-2016, 11:17 PM
Hi Kimberly,

I think it's up for you to decide, but if it was me and the waste was being collected by a pre-filter I would rinse these off at least 3 times a day seeing as you have six feedings. As you probably know it's the dissolved solids in the water that affect Discus (and also breed bad bacteria), so waste/uneaten food shouldn't be left in water (includes filter) more than an hour IMO.

I'm aware of the mistakes I made with my first group, even though my water looked great it was actually toxic (to Discus anyway) and when my fourth fish, the biggest of my group, out of the blue just turned on his side then died an hour later, I had to really examine my maintenance. In my current 180gal + sump, I siphon waste/uneaten food 30 minutes after each feeding, but only feed my eleven Discus (all 4" to 6") 3 times daily. I clean all my pre-filters after each feeding as well. I'd have to say my entire tank + sump stays truly clean with this schedule. I'll add that I also do a more thorough weekly cleaning of my overflows and tank walls, and 1/2" sand substrate, and bi-weekly remove & clean my driftwood.

Kenny

Kenny,
Wow, I reread your post a few times and noticed that I was not aware of this unhealthy environment that I created. If undissolved food becomes bad bacteria in the filter system, then why would't one do this? I think I am going to empty/rinse the filters once a day, but I can't empty/clean three times a day.

I wonder if I do three feedings a day and one empty/clean a day if that would help create a healthy environment:

Aquatic Suppliers Discus Chow + Black Worms - cubed dried (7am)

Color Flakes + Discusgold premium pellets (12pm)

Extensive WC + Frozen Beef Heart (9pm)
[note: the BH are fed before the WC]

Jenene
12-04-2016, 11:39 PM
Hi Kimberly,
You are asking some really good questions. They guys here are giving you great advice as well. The one thing this forum is great for is learning from others who have been down the road you are on. I am pretty new and without this forum my fish would not have had such a great start. People are great here.

My one piece of advice is to try not to let all the waste into your filter in the first place like Kenny mentioned. I know it sounds crazy because that is what they are for is to filter right? But the more waste that goes in there the harder it is for the beneficial bacteria and mechanical filtration to clear it all. You will start to see readable levels of ammonia and nitrates.

The stress from poor water will make them prone to illness and could stunt their growth. Many of us use an vacuum to remove waste and uneaten food after every meal, which allows you to clean without removing water between changes. This prevents the filter from having to try to process all of that extra stuff. It doesn't replace water changes, it just helps keep it cleaner during the time in between. It also helps to turn off the filter for a few minutes so food does not go into the filter while they are eating. Before you turn it back on go ahead and vacuum- you will notice they will all poop while you are trying to clean up after them (they do it on purpose- I am certain) , then turn it back on. I set a timer on my phone so I don't forget to switch it back on. I use the Eheim vacuum which is fully submersible and you can just rinse out the collection compartment. It is a lifesaver- a really handy tool.

Sorry! I got a bit carried away, but it in my humble opinion really makes a difference! The foods you are feeding look great. All very high protein. I basically use the same but have collected a few more pellet foods and made my own beef heart mix- they devour that!

It looks like are really committed to giving your fish a great start. Good luck and enjoy. Keep us posted! We love pics as well!

Jenene

kimberly
12-05-2016, 12:23 AM
Hi Kimberly,
You are asking some really good questions. They guys here are giving you great advice as well. The one thing this forum is great for is learning from others who have been down the road you are on. I am pretty new and without this forum my fish would not have had such a great start. People are great here.

My one piece of advice is to try not to let all the waste into your filter in the first place like Kenny mentioned. I know it sounds crazy because that is what they are for is to filter right? But the more waste that goes in there the harder it is for the beneficial bacteria and mechanical filtration to clear it all. You will start to see readable levels of ammonia and nitrates.

The stress from poor water will make them prone to illness and could stunt their growth. Many of us use an vacuum to remove waste and uneaten food after every meal, which allows you to clean without removing water between changes. This prevents the filter from having to try to process all of that extra stuff. It doesn't replace water changes, it just helps keep it cleaner during the time in between. It also helps to turn off the filter for a few minutes so food does not go into the filter while they are eating. Before you turn it back on go ahead and vacuum- you will notice they will all poop while you are trying to clean up after them (they do it on purpose- I am certain) , then turn it back on. I set a timer on my phone so I don't forget to switch it back on. I use the Eheim vacuum which is fully submersible and you can just rinse out the collection compartment. It is a lifesaver- a really handy tool.

Sorry! I got a bit carried away, but it in my humble opinion really makes a difference! The foods you are feeding look great. All very high protein. I basically use the same but have collected a few more pellet foods and made my own beef heart mix- they devour that!

It looks like are really committed to giving your fish a great start. Good luck and enjoy. Keep us posted! We love pics as well!

Jenene

Hi Jenene,
I appreciate your support as well. I hear you and am grateful to be here. Thanks for sharing. It feels good to know that I am not alone out here. I am going to buy an E. vac tomorrow. I will use it after feedings. I think I will not use an automatic feeder because I want to be home while I feed, so I can vac uneaten food after feedings. Then I will plan on a WC after the last feeding. That should help the filter and environment. I noticed a small spike in my ammonia level during the 3-day food strike.

What do you think?

I noticed many people make their BH, but I could not find BH at my grocery store today. I am planning to do a simple recipe with BH+shrimp+flakes someday to begin with. I am not there yet. First things first.

Kimberly

Jenene
12-05-2016, 07:42 AM
Hi Jenene,
I appreciate your support as well. I hear you and am grateful to be here. Thanks for sharing. It feels good to know that I am not alone out here. I am going to buy an E. vac tomorrow. I will use it after feedings. I think I will not use an automatic feeder because I want to be home while I feed, so I can vac uneaten food after feedings. Then I will plan on a WC after the last feeding. That should help the filter and environment. I noticed a small spike in my ammonia level during the 3-day food strike.

What do you think?

I noticed many people make their BH, but I could not find BH at my grocery store today. I am planning to do a simple recipe with BH+shrimp+flakes someday to begin with. I am not there yet. First things first.

Kimberly

Sounds great Kimberly,
I personally don't use an auto feeder either for the very same reason although I know a lot of people do and have great success with them. I think they have kind of nailed down exactly how much their fish will consume and know they would not have much to clean up. I am still finding the balance between not enough and too much so I feed 3X a times but a bit more than if I did 4 smaller ones. There are some articles here about the rates of feeding as well. I am lucky enough to be home from work by 3pm so I feed a pellet at 6:30 am, 3pm beef heart mix then WC and then the freeze dried black worms at about 9 pm. The earlier big messy feeding allows me to do the water change before the evening so if I am tired I can just enjoy the fish and not be tempted to skip a WC. That is just what I found works for me, everyone figures out what they need to do to keep these guys healthy and still have a life.

*** One thing I forgot to mention on the Eheim vacuum- if you have a bare bottom it works better without the second expansion piece with the cut outs on the bottom. That is for digging in gravel and your suction will be better without it. It is not really strong, just enough to swirl it gently up into the vac- but is really does work great.

It sounds like you have done a lot of research. Keep using this great resource and keep us posted on your progress. There are a lot of really great experts here (not me) that really do a great job helping out us newbies. The moderators are awesome. You will really enjoy this hobby more because of the support you can find here.

Also you can usually find beef heart at a butcher shop. You may have to call around.I know some people have used low fat ground turkey with good results. I used The King of DIY's recipe and added gelatin to it to keep it neater. It really worked great although I would cut the amount spiralina in half (it was really green) and I have a white Discus so I left out the Asthaxian (red color additive). So far I think it has really helped them grow and they love it.

Jenene

adrian31@outlook.com
12-06-2016, 10:46 AM
Adrian,
I like that you are sharing your experience with me. It is all good. I hear you. Maybe I will increase my daily WC to 60% and lower my feedings to 5 daily feeds. Do you think that will be a healthy environment? Why or why not?
Kimberly

Hi Kimberly,

I think it will help since cleaning will be less work. What's important is their environment stays clean. I've also heard long time Discus keepers here say that clean, fresh water is more important than many feedings, that if kept in a pristine environment even 3-4 feedings evenly spaced throughtout the day is good for growouts.

I'd kept other fish for years so after reading everything here and then starting out, it was hard for me to fully accept that Discus were so different than all the other fish I'd ever kept. I made an effort but only after some time afterward realized that I needed to do all they were saying. My fish eventually got sick.

HTH,
Kenny

kimberly
12-06-2016, 08:33 PM
Sounds great Kimberly,
I personally don't use an auto feeder either for the very same reason although I know a lot of people do and have great success with them. I think they have kind of nailed down exactly how much their fish will consume and know they would not have much to clean up. I am still finding the balance between not enough and too much so I feed 3X a times but a bit more than if I did 4 smaller ones. There are some articles here about the rates of feeding as well. I am lucky enough to be home from work by 3pm so I feed a pellet at 6:30 am, 3pm beef heart mix then WC and then the freeze dried black worms at about 9 pm. The earlier big messy feeding allows me to do the water change before the evening so if I am tired I can just enjoy the fish and not be tempted to skip a WC. That is just what I found works for me, everyone figures out what they need to do to keep these guys healthy and still have a life.

*** One thing I forgot to mention on the Eheim vacuum- if you have a bare bottom it works better without the second expansion piece with the cut outs on the bottom. That is for digging in gravel and your suction will be better without it. It is not really strong, just enough to swirl it gently up into the vac- but is really does work great.

It sounds like you have done a lot of research. Keep using this great resource and keep us posted on your progress. There are a lot of really great experts here (not me) that really do a great job helping out us newbies. The moderators are awesome. You will really enjoy this hobby more because of the support you can find here.

Also you can usually find beef heart at a butcher shop. You may have to call around.I know some people have used low fat ground turkey with good results. I used The King of DIY's recipe and added gelatin to it to keep it neater. It really worked great although I would cut the amount spiralina in half (it was really green) and I have a white Discus so I left out the Asthaxian (red color additive). So far I think it has really helped them grow and they love it.

Jenene

Jenene,
I noticed that you are very happy about your schedule. I am happy for you. I am so thankful for this forum. Thank you for your support with the vac. I'm buying it tonight.

Do you think the BH is worth all the effort you're putting into making or would you rather buy it pre-made? Why or why not?

I bought some frozen BH for the first time. I could not find fresh BH at Safeway. I will look around though.

Talk to you soon hopefully.

kimberly
12-06-2016, 08:35 PM
Hi Kimberly,

I think it will help since cleaning will be less work. What's important is their environment stays clean. I've also heard long time Discus keepers here say that clean, fresh water is more important than many feedings, that if kept in a pristine environment even 3-4 feedings evenly spaced throughtout the day is good for growouts.

I'd kept other fish for years so after reading everything here and then starting out, it was hard for me to fully accept that Discus were so different than all the other fish I'd ever kept. I made an effort but only after some time afterward realized that I needed to do all they were saying. My fish eventually got sick.

HTH,
Kenny

Kenny,
I hear you. Mine were getting sick which is why I think my higher power led me to this site. I am grateful for this forum.

Jenene
12-06-2016, 09:06 PM
Kimberly, you ask really good questions!

The beef heart is really a matter of personal preference and it took me a while to get the nerve to make my own. The reason why I did was because the batches of the pre-made mixes seemed to be really messy to me. A lot of tiny fluff that was too small for the fish to eat so it just dissolved into dust which was hard to clean out even with big water changes it was just dissolved into the remaining water. Other people have had great luck with it. Maybe I just got a few bad batches but I love this video where the nutrition is explained in detail- each ingredient, what it does and why it is important. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXQS95MHmTk&t=970s

The reason why I waited so long to try it is because I am not a red meat eater and cutting up a beef heart made me kind of queasy. I took one for the team though and called around a few butcher shops until I found one that carried it. I found myself explaining to the guy who I talked into trimming it for me that it would be fish food. I just felt the need to make that clear.:o

In the end it was not hard to make but it was not cheap either. The sea food in it can make it pricey. It did however make 12- 8 oz bags that will last a long time in my sub zero. I have already gone through my first one. They do really love it, I know what is in it and it is so good for them. I think I noted before I did add gelatin to help keep it neater. When they take bites out of it there are perfect little "U" shaped discus bite marks in it. Pretty cute.

So there are probably 100 different recipes on the forum. When and if you decide to try it- you will have lots of great recipes or you can make up your own. Some members just freeze chunks of the heart and just grate it into bite sized pieces. Here is the link to some of the members' recipes they were kind enough to share and compare:gossip:.

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?24193-Food-Recipes&highlight=beef+heart+recipes

The sky is the limit! Enjoy those fish! :fish:

adrian31@outlook.com
12-07-2016, 12:54 AM
Kenny,
Wow, I reread your post a few times and noticed that I was not aware of this unhealthy environment that I created. If undissolved food becomes bad bacteria in the filter system, then why would't one do this? I think I am going to empty/rinse the filters once a day, but I can't empty/clean three times a day.

I wonder if I do three feedings a day and one empty/clean a day if that would help create a healthy environment:

Aquatic Suppliers Discus Chow + Black Worms - cubed dried (7am)

Color Flakes + Discusgold premium pellets (12pm)

Extensive WC + Frozen Beef Heart (9pm)
[note: the BH are fed before the WC]

Hi Kimberly,

Sorry for late reply. I read all the stickies on this topic before I had my first group but found it hard to accept Discus were so water-sensitive.

People here informed me that though the water may look clean it's the Docs (dissolved organic solids) that affect Discus and only water changes can reduce this. Now if you add more Docs by leaving waste & uneaten food in the tank (or filter) these Docs quickly become unmanageable. I suppose you could manage this by changing much, much more water each day but it's easier just to remove the waste/uneaten food.

To answer your question: I suppose it would depend on the water volume and how much food & length of time it was being left there. It would be hard to give you a yes or no answer on this. Just be cautious with this and err on the side of good judgement. I wish you good success with this.

I hope this and the other responses help.

Kenny