Dan's first Discus Tank!

[Dan99]

Hi all, I have kept freshwater fish for almost five years and have decided to start a discus tank. I posted in the Beginner section of the forum a while ago and I was told to start a tank journal! I have been planning this tank for a while and have done quite a bit of research regarding keeping discus but when I found this forum, I realised there was a lot to learn still and the preliminary research that I had done only skimmed the surface of what I needed to learn. I've always had a liking for discus and when I was really little back when I was 11-12, my dream was to have a large tank with discus in it. Now I'm 17, am making my own money and my dream is finally coming true!
So I guess in this journal I will be documenting the process of my tank build and my tank's life. Starting off the first post I guess will be a picture of the tank itself as it currently stands.
104941
The tank is 90 gallons and lit with an Aqueon 48" LED and heated with an EHEIM 200 W heater.
I am currently seeding a filter in one of my existing tanks. It is a fluval f406 canister filter.
My discus will be coming in the near future!

[Phillydubs]

You don't want to try a fishless cycle and give yourself a real
Fresh start...?

Not sure the health or inhabitants of your other fish but you look off to a nice start and I would hate to see you derailed cause of a seeded filter.

Some people also ask who they get their discus from for a seeded sponge. Some people don't seed at all and just keep up enlarge daily water changes and let it happen that way. You have many options but if I was you I may research a fishless cycle and see what you think.

Anyways welcome and love the tank. Any ideas what your plan is what size or strain fish you want. Are you keeping it bare bottom. Will you be adding any decor ?

[Dan99]

Thanks for the reply!

I've already started seeding for about 3 weeks now. The inhabitants of my other tank are pretty healthy I would say. The tank has been running for about a year and there has never been disease before.

But in the case that the seeded filter is a bad idea would I stop the seeding by just washing all the media in untreated tap water to kill of all the beneficial bacteria is ? Do you think the discus would be ok with large daily water changes in an unseeded filter? I'm planning on 60-70% a day.

I plan on keeping the tank bare bottom. When the discus get larger I may a thin layer of sand and some driftwood in the future.
As for strains, I'll be getting discus around 3-3.5". I'll be getting:
1 Snow White
1 golden checkerboard
1 blue diamond
1 blue snakeskin
1 brilliant turquoise
3 rose red

[Phillydubs]

I guess I am confused. What do you mean you started seeding ...? You already added a seeded filter to that new tank...? Do you have any tank inhabitants now ? If you moved just a seeded sponge over w nothing in the tank then the bacteria will die off anyways because you have nothing feeding it...

Maybe you should tell us what you have done so far and where you are.

Also if you are getting smaller discus you will need to do large daily changes to get them to grow out properly

[Dan99]

Perhaps I just misinterpreted be meaning of seeding. I'll try to clarify what I meant. I added the canister filter to an existing established tank to build up nitrifying bacteria. That's what I thought seeding meant. Please correct me if I'm wrong or my idea of seeding is a little different. The filter is still on that established aquarium right now and I was planning on moving it to the new tank when I get the discus. I guess I was trying to be fancy. I don't actually 100% know exactly what seeding meant. I should've said "I'm letting nitrifying bacteria grow on the media inside."

[Phillydubs]

I see. Well I guess what's done is done at this point if that's the option you want to take.

Like I was saying earlier you could have something in your current tank that doesn't agree w the discus and cause issues

If you wanted to start from scratch you would need To clean w bleach or a vinegar bath and start over w a fishless cycle

[Jack L]

typically people say seeding referring to taking media from and established tank filter and adding it to the new setup.

[Ryan925]

It's really semantics. It's taking bb that is established in another tank and using it to colonize a new filter. It's the same whether its hooking that filter to an existing tank or moving media from the same existing tank to the new one.

What Phil is getting at is by doing this you run the risk of cross contaminating your new investment. Even though you have not experienced any problems in your current tank does not mean there isn't anything there that could negatively affect your discus.

There's a chance no problems may occur but there's also the risk of creating issues. It's a roll of the dice really.

[Rapture]

Have you tested your water for ph swing and microbubbles? It looks like you have quite a bit of bubbles on the inside of your glass. If you change water daily, which would be a very idea after adding 8 discus to your tank, the bubbles may very well stress the fish and make them sick. If your source water has a ph swing, that can also be quite stressful to the fish. The remedy to this is to age your water. My other advice is to feed the fish a good diet, only what they will eat over a few minutes, especially while your biofilter is catching up with all the fish being added at once.

[Dan99]

I see. Well I guess what's done is done at this point if that's the option you want to take.

Like I was saying earlier you could have something in your current tank that doesn't agree w the discus and cause issues

If you wanted to start from scratch you would need To clean w bleach or a vinegar bath and start over w a fishless cycle

So you would recommend cleaning out the whole filter? If I do so and add discus, would dosing seachem prime and doing daily water changes safely get the discus through the recycle?

Edit: or would a fishless cycle be mandatory

[Dan99]

Have you tested your water for ph swing and microbubbles? It looks like you have quite a bit of bubbles on the inside of your glass. If you change water daily, which would be a very idea after adding 8 discus to your tank, the bubbles may very well stress the fish and make them sick. If your source water has a ph swing, that can also be quite stressful to the fish. The remedy to this is to age your water. My other advice is to feed the fish a good diet, only what they will eat over a few minutes, especially while your biofilter is catching up with all the fish being added at once.

Based on my water testing, the ph had always been around 7.2 ever since I started testing water so like 3 ish years ago and I just tested it now and the results are no different.

I use API master kit

[Ryan925]

Based on my water testing, the ph had always been around 7.2 ever since I started testing water so like 3 ish years ago and I just tested it now and the results are no different.

I use API master kit

I would agree with the micro bubble thing. I have always done WCs straight from the tap since I got my fish in April with no issues. Now that the weather has changed I notice a lot of micro bubbles. I will be going to get an aging barrel in the next few days.

The issue is not what the ph in the tank is but the difference in the ph of your tap water. Not only do ph swings stress discus but all those little micro bubbles stick to their slime coats and can stress them.

One thing to always keep in mind is what works for other fish/tanks does not necessarily hold true for discus.

Measure ph of your tap. Fill a 5 gallon bucket with an air stone and check a couple hours later and see what the difference is.

[Ryan925]

So you would recommend cleaning out the whole filter? If I do so and add discus, would dosing seachem prime and doing daily water changes safely get the discus through the recycle?

Edit: or would a fishless cycle be mandatory

Unfortunately I cannot answer that question. Again its a roll of the dice. You may never experience a problem but there is also the chance you will. You really need to weigh the cost of your investment and the potential risk.

Fishless cycle is best but many forgo the process with LARGE DAILY water changes to keep nitrite and ammonia in check. True prime does help to detoxify these things for 24 hours so that's another reason for large daily changes.

[Dan99]

104977
I see what you mean by a difference in pH..... Dang that's crazy. So why does this happen? And is aging the water the only solution to this issue? If it is how would I age enough water to do such large daily water changes.

[DJW]

How long did you let the water age before testing it? It should be at least 12 hours to get the full pH swing - and 24 hours is better. Generally, if you see a difference greater than 0.3 you should age the water.

Some tap water contains excess CO2, which forms carbonic acid and lowers the pH. Ageing the water releases the excess CO2 so that the new water used for water changes has about the same pH as the tank.

[Dan99]

The water with the higher pH was let to sit for over a day. The lighter green/ blue is straight out of the tap. I did another test with just leaving the water out for 5 min and the ph was the same as the pH of the tank so I guess with a larger bucket I'll need to age it for maybe like 10 min. As for the filter I think I'm going to rinse the media and do a fish in cycle with 80-90% water changes and daily dose of prime.

[Dan99]

104979
That's funny I checked the pH of another tap that I used to fill up that tank. The one that I used primarily. (My mom was cooking so I had to switch taps for a few buckets.) the pH of that tap matches the pH of the tank exactly. Does that mean that my 2 water sources innately have 2 pH levels or is it that the other tap that had that huge gap just has more dissolved gas. It was odd because I let a bucket sit when I went to school when I came back, tested water, the pH was the same as the morning test. Any thoughts/ opinions?

[Ryan925]

You want to aerate the bucket

[DJW]

... and the tank.

[Jack L]

as mentioned earlier, its the gas escaping from the water. if you want to see for yourself, take 2 jars of water, seal one of them up, let the other just sit.

do hourly water tests. the open air one will change and stabilize, the closed one will stay where it started.

i have done this to explain to children, the closed one stayed the same for days.

get an aging barrel, look on craiglist for plastic drums. i found two for $15 each.

-------
cycle. up to you.
but FWIW, my reasoning=
-if i had a stable tank going, i just did a filter squeeze from established tank to new one. and had an instantly cycled tank
-i just never had the patience for fishless, even starter cultures tested my patience.
-i never lost a fish due to seeding from a healthy mature established system
-i have lost fish due to impatience and improper cycling without seeding.

and eventually, i've always added fish and plants(except piranha tanks, no plants) and all those things are going to bring in contaminants.
i quarantine, but there is only so much you can do. its not a sterile environment

[atlantadiscus]

I do not think you are getting accurate PH numbers from your testing,as both of your pictures show vials filled to incorrect levels?