New fish possibly sick

[Mark N]

Hi first Off I am new to owning Discus. So please bare with me.
My concern
I recently purchased 7 21/2" to 3" discus. One week ago from today. Purchase date 01/14/17. Two out of the 7 are not eating. They also hide in the back of the tank alone. I also have seen white fesses floating by as well. I have been unable to locate whitch fish has dropped them. Tonight I located one fish with the white fesses hanging from him. Also on one occasion I had seen two of them rub against my heater.

The tank.
65 gallon set up two months prior to adding the Discus
Planted with driftwood and large lava rocks.
Eco complete black substrate
Two Eheim pro 4 350 canister filters. One diy reverse flow under gravel filter. Second run conventional. One contains a carbon pad the other has searchem pergin in it. Both have prefilters sponges.
One powerhead with sponge.
One air stone.
Two heaters.
One Marieland led light.

Food
I have been feeding a frozen food I purchased from Discus Madness.
Frozen blood worms
Frozen brine shrimp
Tubifex worms they don't seem too care for much.
And some tropical flake food.

Tank mates. We're added two months prior to the Discus 106086106087106088
4 Singapore flower shrimp.
6 zebra nerita snails
2 otocinclus algae eater
3 Cory cats
12 neon cardinals
6 kill fish

Tank temp. Started out at 83 degrees and bumped it up to 86 degrees.
Ph high range 7.4
I should add that before adding the Discus one week ago this was at a ph level of 8.0.
Ph 7.6
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 5.0

I have been doing a 1/3 tank or approximately 20 gallon water change every other day since the addition of the Discus.
I am using domestic tap water.

Any suggestions on how to treat them? Do I treat the hole tank or just a few of the fish. What should I start with?

[Akili]

Hi Mark, Welcome to SimplyDiscus.Let me begin by mentioning that raising and also medicating juveniles in a planted tank with gravel will be difficult.Second feeding live Tubifex worms is the worst thing you do to Discus of any size.Do you have another tank for hospitalization?

[bluelagoon]

Hi and welcome.Your set up is not the greatest environment for baby discus.They are more susceptible and prone to disease in a planted tank.The substrate needs a lot of cleaning along with regular WC's.Some protozoa live in places like substrate away from oxygenated water.We see this a lot in planted baby discus tanks on this site.Altho,there are things like Hex in our tanks they seem to proliferate more in these areas and the fish are over loaded and become sick.This is another reason why the clean bare bottom tank is best to raise young discus.Good luck.

[Mark N]

Hi my apologies. Looks like I posted this in the wrong location.
To answer your question. I do have a small 10 gallon tank I was thinking of moving the invertebrates and some of the plants, then treating my whole tank. I am not sure if the other small fish may be having the same problems. So I am thinking better to treat the whole tank?
Also the tubifex worms are freeze dried.

Thank you so much. I need the help!!!

[Mark N]

I am now understanding the challenges. I am intending on removing a large portion of the plants and obstacles to make it easier to clean.
I did install 1/2" cpvc around the whole tank base with small holes in it. I filter the water through a eheim canister filter and force it back through the substrate. I was hoping this would help. This was done when I set up the tank.

[Akili]

Mark, since you are new to owning Discus I suggest that you go through all the stickies in the Beginners Section of the forum. Beginner's Guide to Getting Started with Discus is a must read for a newbie. Also make sure you watch this video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXe3VKh7qF8&t=624s If you can go with a bare bottom tank with some driftwood, maybe some plants in pots that can be moved during cleaning and water changes. Please increase the amount and frequency of your water changes.

[Mark N]

Well I removed most of the live plants. Cleaned the substrate, cleaned all my sponge prefilters, removed carbon and pergin from from canister filters. Did 90% water change. Fish look a little happier. But two out of seven still not eating. Tomorrow I will test the water again and do another water change.
Hope to see some more improvement.

[Will- in - Oz]

How much is your investment worth? Financially, ethically, emotionally? I ask that because your answer will help decide your next course of action.
OPTION #1 Pop all seven discus in a quarantine tank, buy or borrow a cheap microscope and:
Take a skin and gill scrape and look under the microscope for flukes. They're huge and easy to see on the lowest power setting; you will learn a lot developing simple microscope skills now; or
OPTION #2 An alternative to #1 is to pop all seven in a quarantine tank and find an aquatic vet who can take a gill and skin scrape for you and help with treatment. You can find your closest aquatic vet here: http://www.aquavetmed.info
OPTION #3 Pop all seven in a quarantine tank and treat as per Al's quarantine recommendations. See his sticky in this disease section.
OPTION#4 Do what most people do. Guess what is going on. Do a whole lot of water changes. Add lots of $treatments$ for your best guess. When they don't get better chuck some more meds at it. Guess again, hahaha. Add up all the treatment costs, time spent and deaths then wish you'd found out what the actual problem was by following the first options! This is the most popular path...
Lastly, while putting them in quarantine will give you some time to work this out, your ultimate solution will depend on what the disease you have and what the solution is for your planted tank. Perhaps if you want to have a mixed aquarium your best bet is to put all the fish in the Q-tank and treat everyone together. There's no point treating for e.g. flukes in a Q-Tank and then putting them back into the main tank with the other fish just to get reinfected.
The disadvantage of solving your issue in a planted tank is that plants and shrimps are very limiting of your treatment choices. And biofiltration/organic matter (plants/substrate/biofilm) may interfere with medication.

[Mark N]

Well no aquatic vets near by. So I have increased my water changes. I am only feeding flake and freeze dried foods. As I believe the store made food was contaminating the water. I decided to treat the whole tank with API general cure. The fish are not hiding alone and swimming together. One still appears not to be eating. But their general behavior looks much more normal. One thing I will say, is they all seam a bit skidish. Also I believe and I am not positive in saying that I possibly saw a dead worm about an inch long float by the other day. Would this extract the worm like that???
Ps thank you for all your input

[Akili]

Raise the temperature to 84/86 degrees F it will always stimulate their appetite.Once they are all eating lower it back to 82.

[Mark N]

Thank you. Tank temperature is currently 86 degrees. I will drop to 82 after all look healthy. I am in the process of setting up a quarantine tank in the event I need to separate one or two of them.

[Mark N]

106573106574Ok so I have been treating the whole tank with API general cure. Had not seen any real change. Still two fish have not eaten in two weeks. I dosed the whole tank with 1 teaspoon of Epson salt per 10 gallons of water last night. Tonight I see the fish in the back left with white stringy poop hanging. This is one of the two not eating. Also see one fish that has been eating well with a white spot on his side.
Any suggestions how I should proceed????

[Mark N]

106585 found this on my plants today. Any possible link to the fish being sick?

[bluelagoon]

The link to the fish being sick is because of their environment and low WC's.Plus they are more active and out going in larger groups.Less baby discus = more stress.

[Mark N]

I am not new to owning fish. This tank is and was set up specificly for the Discus just 3 months back. . It is a 65 gallon tank, with 265 gallons worth of filtration. My substrate is cleaned weekly with a 90% water change. I also was doing a 20% water change every other day the first week I got the fish. I was informed that the water changes should be greater. So for this past week I have been doing 50% water changes daily. I stopped feeding anything other then dry foods to prevent any possiblity of food going bad in the tank. Water test are all perfect!!!! I have taken several additional steps to make certain that their environment is clean and the best possible. I purchased all seven two weeks ago. And five out of the seven have been and are perfect as are all the other fish. It is only the two , and they have not eaten since he day I brought them home.
Now hat being said.
I am looking for experienced help as to what is wrong with them and how to proceed to help cure them. The fish two have not eaten a thing since the day I purchased them. Just two weeks back.

[nc0gnet0]

What is 265 gallons of filtration? Treating fish in a planted tank with substrate is rarely effective. Other than not eating, what symptoms do the two fish display? Do you have any better pictures of the two fish in question?

[Mark N]

106603106604Listed in the first post is the filtration. Two Eheim pro 4 350 canister filters. One is reverse flow through the gravel. Meaning. Water is taken in through a pre filter sponge, then filtered through the filter and finally re introduced through the gravel around the perimeter of the tank as well as the center DIY. The other filter again is a Eheim pro 4 350 runs conventionally, also with a pre filter sponge. One power head with a pre filter sponge. And my substrate is very clean because most everything gets trapped in the sponge pre filters. I clean the sponges at every WC.

The only thing noticeable in the two fish is that they are a bit thin from not eating for two weeks. I did a Epson salt treatment the other day to the whole tank and I noticed the following day, one fish had long white stringing poop hanging from him. Other then that they would hide separate in the back of the tank. I also treated them with API general cure for 6 days with little to no noticeable difference. I just started prazipro treatment today after a 90% WC.

The fish closest in picture just got the white spot on his side the other day. And the one behind him and along side him are the two not eating and are most times hiding. I noticed a small improvement in them after the API general cure treatment. I believe it has metro in it.

[nc0gnet0]

106603106604Listed in the first post is the filtration. Two Eheim pro 4 350 canister filters. One is reverse flow through the gravel. Meaning. Water is taken in through a pre filter sponge, then filtered through the filter and finally re introduced through the gravel around the perimeter of the tank as well as the center DIY. The other filter again is a Eheim pro 4 350 runs conventionally, also with a pre filter sponge. One power head with a pre filter sponge. And my substrate is very clean because most everything gets trapped in the sponge pre filters. I clean the sponges at every WC.

The only thing noticeable in the two fish is that they are a bit thin from not eating for two weeks. I did a Epson salt treatment the other day to the whole tank and I noticed the following day, one fish had long white stringing poop hanging from him. Other then that they would hide separate in the back of the tank. I also treated them with API general cure for 6 days with little to no noticeable difference. I just started prazipro treatment today after a 90% WC.

The fish closest in picture just got the white spot on his side the other day. And the one behind him and along side him are the two not eating and are most times hiding. I noticed a small improvement in them after the API general cure treatment. I believe it has metro in it.

So, you purchased them 1/14, and since you have had them you nave treated with epsoms salt, general cure, and prazipro? is that correct? Think about this for a little bit.

There is no such thing as 265 gallons of filtration, or, "overfiltration". This is a myth, and no substitute for water changes. I don't think it is the cause of your problems now, but it is something you will need to accept. Mechanical filtration, while it may make the water appear clean, all it is doing is sucking up the poo and uneaten food and collecting it in the filter medium in the canister, and, unfortunately all the water is still cycling though this poop trap.

Which brings us to your use of gravel, another poop trap. Sure, you can say it is clean, but give it 6 months and let me come over and stir it with a stick and we will see how clean it really is. I think cycling the water through it makes the problem worse, better off with a finer media such as sand, which collects at least most of the crap on the top and is easier to clean (in comparison to gravel).

Buuuutttt, none of these are your issue at the moment. The tank is just too new. Your pictures leave a lot to be desired in trying to get a good look at the fish. New fish should always go in to a QT BB tank for 6 weeks, this is so if we do need to treat them it can be done so properly, and not in a planted tank. It might be that you got bad stock, but it could be something as simple as to much current in the tank, or the tank is in an area with high traffic and the fish are constantly spooked. Maybe the lighting is to bright? At any rate, my first suggestion prior to dosing them with any more meds would be to remove them and place them in a dimly lit 29/30 gallon BB tank with nothing but a sponge filter and see how they respond.

[Mark N]

Since I purchased them, yes just over two weeks ago. All but the two ate from day one. I noticed the two in the back hiding and not eating. This went on for a week. I became concerned and decided to try something. So I treated them with the API general cure for 6 days. The fish started interacting with the others a little but not much. I then decided to try epson salt one teaspoon per 10 gallons of water. The following day is when I noticed the one had the stringy white fesses. So today after a 90% WC. I am trying prazipro.

As for the canister filters. I alternate cleaning them every two weeks. I have no doubt having substrate can hold things in it but I am on top of it. Fully cleaned once a week. I put filter cotton in my pic up tube when I vac the substrate so I know and see everything that is coming out of it. If you read earlier on , it is eco complete. Everything in the tank was picked to create a clean environment. From the substrate to the plants, shrimp,snails,Cory cats,kill fish, cardinals. All were in place for over two months prior to adding the Discus. The filters both have media from old running tanks for properl cycling. This tank is set up just for them. And they were all purchased at the same time from the same place.

[nc0gnet0]

Since I purchased them, yes just over two weeks ago. All but the two ate from day one. I noticed the two in the back hiding and not eating. This went on for a week. I became concerned and decided to try something. So I treated them with the API general cure for 6 days. The fish started interacting with the others a little but not much. I then decided to try epson salt one teaspoon per 10 gallons of water. The following day is when I noticed the one had the stringy white fesses. So today after a 90% WC. I am trying prazipro.

As for the canister filters. I alternate cleaning them every two weeks. I have no doubt having substrate can hold things in it but I am on top of it. Fully cleaned once a week. I put filter cotton in my pic up tube when I vac the substrate so I know and see everything that is coming out of it. If you read earlier on , it is eco complete. Everything in the tank was picked to create a clean environment. From the substrate to the plants, shrimp,snails,Cory cats,kill fish, cardinals. All were in place for over two months prior to adding the Discus. The filters both have media from old running tanks for properl cycling. This tank is set up just for them. And they were all purchased at the same time from the same place.


Well no, if it was setup just for them, it would only have just them in the tank. It would however appear that your dead set on using more medication, I wish you luck. Not the course of action I would take at this time however.

[bluelagoon]

Is this an under ground filter?If so they get very dirty and lots of sludge forms under there.It is IMO the worst filters ever made.Sludge=anaerobic =protozoa and other multi-cell organisms that can infect fish.6 days of antibiotic treatments and your half way there.Another 6 days may have cleared the issue.If you use antibiotics for short periods and not the full course,it makes the remaining bacteria a little more resistive to treatment.What disease do you think it is to use Prazipro alone?I don't think it's giil flukes or worms.

[Ash92]

I am not new to owning fish. This tank is and was set up specificly for the Discus just 3 months back. . It is a 65 gallon tank, with 265 gallons worth of filtration. My substrate is cleaned weekly with a 90% water change. I also was doing a 20% water change every other day the first week I got the fish. I was informed that the water changes should be greater. So for this past week I have been doing 50% water changes daily. I stopped feeding anything other then dry foods to prevent any possiblity of food going bad in the tank. Water test are all perfect!!!! I have taken several additional steps to make certain that their environment is clean and the best possible. I purchased all seven two weeks ago. And five out of the seven have been and are perfect as are all the other fish. It is only the two , and they have not eaten since he day I brought them home.
Now hat being said.
I am looking for experienced help as to what is wrong with them and how to proceed to help cure them. The fish two have not eaten a thing since the day I purchased them. Just two weeks back.

You may not be new to keeping fish but these guys are here to help you buddy I've done non stop researching on this site for about a week or so and for small discus it should be a simple bare bottom tank easy to clean good feeding and good daily water changes

[Mark N]

No ,it is nothing at all related to a conventional under gravel filter as explained in detail earlier. The fish has white stringy poop. What is the cause of this?

[nc0gnet0]

No ,it is nothing at all related to a conventional under gravel filter as explained in detail earlier. The fish has white stringy poop. What is the cause of this?

Not eating, hex, tape worms, bacterial infection, round worms, etc.

[Mark N]

The other fish in the tank are to help clean up after them. And the same fish are listed right here on this site as good tankmates for Discus. Each fish or invertebrates have a job to do in the tank.
It was suggested I increase water temp. I did that.
It was suggested I remove obstructions in tank to make it easier to clean. I did that
It was suggested that I increase the amounts of my WC and frequency. I did that
It was suggested I look at my water quality. I test it nearly every day with the same results.
It was suggested I inspect my filters and clean them over and above my normal cleaning. I did that
It was suggested I do more thorough cleaning of the substrate. I did that. Three additional times.
It was suggested I feed only freeze dried foods to prevent contamination. I did that.
It was suggested I reduce lighting. I did that.
I still have two fish that hide and have not eaten a thing. Now I am no doctor. But I know if I did not eat for two weeks I would be really week and just about on my death bed. So I am guessing the same would go for fish.
So yes I did treat with API general cure for 6 days. It called for 4 days but I treated for six. I saw little to no change in the fish.
My next step was try epson salt. I looked at this as a very mild and safe treatment . From what I understand at the dose I used it acts simply as a laxative and helps clear the fishes digestive track. It was only one dose overnight. It did bring a clue! White poop!!!

I was told treat this with prazipro. So yes I began this Monday.

Yes I am treating the whole tank , as if one has it , they all have been exposed to what ever it is they have. I only have one additional 10 gallon tank that can be used as a hospital tank. But no one has suggested to this point that I separate the fish.
I did however remove my invertebrates from the tank.

Should I not be treating them? Knowing they have white poop? And have not eaten?
How long can they go without eating before they are to week to recover?

I am open to opinions and suggestions.
However, No one has said how to proceed. How long to wait to see changes and what other things I should be looking for.

I would like to make one thing perfectly clear. My substrate is clean, my filtration is excellent and clean. I have three pre filter sponges that are cleaned daily. My current flow is not excessive. I have an air stone in the tank for oxygen. I have two heaters in the tank so temp is even throughout the tank. And all fish in the tank are happy and healthy and eating with the exception of the two. Only other thing I observed is a new spot on the side of one fish.

[Mark N]

So how would one proceed to treat this?..

[Akili]

No ,it is nothing at all related to a conventional under gravel filter as explained in detail earlier. The fish has white stringy poop. What is the cause of this?White stringy poo is an indication of Internal parasites or Flagellates. You need to treat your fish with Metronidazole

[Mark N]

Thank you.
I believe that is what is in the API general cure. 250mg metronidazole and 75 mg praziquantel per packet. Should I use this or something else?

[nc0gnet0]

White stringy poo is an indication of Internal parasites or Flagellates. You need to treat your fish with Metronidazole

With all due respect, I don't think this is particularly good advice just yet. Get the fish in a hospital tank and see if they can regain their appetite.

Continuously tossing one medication after the other into the tank will due more harm then good. Considering the OP has already treated with general cure, and now prazi, give the fish a few weeks to recover. No to mention the other fish in the tank are being needlessly subjected to medications even though they show now symptoms. There is only so much the fish's kidneys and liver can handle before irreparable damage is done.

[Mark N]

Thank you all for your support, suggestions and opinions. They may differ in some ways but this is how we learn.

Nc0gnet0 I see and now have better understanding of your concerns.
A few questions
1- how long can the fish go without food or eating?
2- how long do I wait to see changes or improvements in the fish before I decide to medicate??
3- if I see no improvement in the fish. What would your treatment be?

I am in the process of setting up a sick tank now. I just need an air pump that I should have later today. Yes completely bare bottom.

[bluelagoon]

No ,it is nothing at all related to a conventional under gravel filter as explained in detail earlier. The fish has white stringy poop. What is the cause of this?

How often is the DIY filter get cleaned?If you look in the emergency room posts,you will find most of the issues with young discus are caused by substrate in tanks.You will need to clean this almost on a daily basis for young discus.I've been keeping fish for close to 50 years.I've kept a variety of them from all over the world and the for last twelve some discus.I can say for certain that discus are not like any other fish in their husbandry.When I see white stringy poop Hex is the first thought on my mind,but other infections will have the same symptom as mentioned.Most often protozoa and bacterial.Worms take longer for symptoms to be noticed and usually longer to kill a fish and most likely to be thin.More often than not it is related to their environment,caused by some kind of stressor.I have one discus here up in age and is a big brute,he only ever had one treatment for gill flukes so far in his long life,about two years ago.A clean environment is needed to get these young discus to their potential growth.Best if you can do it and not have to stunt their growth from them getting sick,not eating and using meds in the first place.So, I'd say by looking at your tank,it's their environment.

[nc0gnet0]

One of the most valuable tools in regards to the treatment of sick fish is the hospital tank, yet it is the most often overlooked and just flat out ignored. Treatment in a planted tank, or more specifically a tank with ANY substrate is problematic and seldom successful. A bare bottom hospital tank insures that your fish is getting the proper medication and it is not being wasted or diluted. It also removes the sick fish from stress caused by other fish. You don't treat a child by giving him medication and then letting him play around with other children.

In regards to all the suggestions given, unfortunately that is the way it always is and will be on a forum such as this. There are many good intentioned people here, but that doesn't always equate to the most sound advice, and when you start following the advice of several different people, or trying everything that everyone suggests, well before you know it you have a bigger problem.

As to your questions, a fish can go a longer time than you might suspect without eating, but this largely depends on size. The smaller the fish, the more likely a prolonged hunger strike will cause permanent problems. However, Fish that are, or have been, subjected to medication often stop eating as a result, and it may take a few days for their appetite to return.

As to how long, there is no one single answer, better pictures would help, can I suggest first uploading your pictures to something like photobucket or flikr, so they can be presented properly oriented? My guess for the moment would be once placed into a hospital tank with dim lighting, give them a week. Monitor closely for any changes in behavior.

I hesitate to answer your last question, because I fear given this information that you will not be able to resist to start medicating again, much sooner than I am suggesting. But since you asked, and based on the information I have seen so far, my best guess would be pure metrozindole, not some diluted or shotgun medication that you will find at an LFS, but 100% pure. You can get this at angels plus or Jehmco.

[nc0gnet0]

Also, snails and shrimp, unless purchased from a Known safe source, have no business in a Discus tank. Both of these can serve as an intermediate host to parasites harmful to discus.

[Mark N]

106679106680
This is the fish that has not eaten at all. This is the one that had the stringy white poop. You can see a bulge on his one side and an indentation on the other.
Yesterday I did not treat with anything just a 35% water change. After feeding tonight doing a 90% WC.

Yesterday the other fish ate some frozen blood worms. And today has eaten some other dry foods.
I set up a hospital tank, just a 10 gallon but it should be ok for this one fish. I'm going to move him or her over soon. Any suggestions moving forward are welcome. Thank you.

Quick question. How long do I have to cycle the hospital tank? I did add good bacteria additive and plan on putting my pre filer sponge in the hospital tank.

[Will- in - Oz]

First confirm water quality. daily ammonia and nitrites. Then check for gill and skin flukes. Have a look under the microscope at the white stringy poop.

[Mark N]

Current tank
Ph 7.4
Ammonia 0.10 ppm
Nitrite 0 ppm
Nitrate 5.0 ppm.

Water in hospital tank is.
Ph 8.0
Ammonia 0 ppm
Nitrite 0 ppm
Nitrate 0 ppm
This fish has only pooped once that I know of and that was after I treated the tank with epson salt. That is when I noticed the white poop. No eat no poop.
I would have to purchase a microscope. Currently I do not own one.

[Mark N]

Just an update for everyone. I set up a hospital tank. 10 gallon moved both the fish over that were not eating. For three days I just did 90% water changes with no meds. I did not see any improvement. I treated with metro the other day. I did not see anything from the one fish. However the other let out like 8" of white poop. The one posted in the above picture. I did see one of them picking at some food but I would not call eating and they have not touched any food since. I am currently still treating with metro.

I also set up a quarantine tank , 30 gallon if they ever make it there.

Any suggestions on how to proceed?... how long should I continue treatment?

Ps all other fish are eating great and are healthy.

[Mark N]

106811106812
7 days in hospital tank very little change. Daily 90%water changes. Treating with Metro once again. I really never see them eat. The light fish keeps pooping this white stuff. The other fish nothing at all. I did increase the temp from 86 degrees to 88 degrees. This did increase there activity.

Should I purchased a microscope to look at the poop? PLEASE HELP

[Second Hand Pat]

How are you treating with the metro? Best to use pure metro at 500mg per 10 gallons for a 10 day or better treatment. You will redose after a big water change. Dose for the volume of the tank, not the water replaced.
Pat

[bluelagoon]

I never did agree with the dosage on the API General Cure.It needs more than 6 days and needs to be a bit stronger.Pure metronidazole would be better than that mix.There is no need to use PraziPro,the second ingredint for that long a period.

[Mark N]

106851106850I am currently using Hikari brand metro+ 1 cap full (9.7g) per 10 gallons. And treating in a 10 gallon tank. 90 to 95% water change per day with full dose of metro.
This is there recommend directions for what they refer to as a (bath). They recommend this for 5 to 7 days.

How long should It be before I see sines of improvement or they begin to eat again?

[bluelagoon]

It says 7 days or until improvements,but I'd go with at least 10 days."Most" fish start eating around the 5 day mark.

[nc0gnet0]

I hesitate to answer your last question, because I fear given this information that you will not be able to resist to start medicating again, much sooner than I am suggesting. But since you asked, and based on the information I have seen so far, my best guess would be pure metrozindole, not some diluted or shotgun medication that you will find at an LFS, but 100% pure. You can get this at angels plus or Jehmco. My guess for the moment would be once placed into a hospital tank with dim lighting, give them a week.


For three days I just did 90% water changes with no meds. I did not see any improvement. I treated with metro the other day

#calledit

[Mark N]

#calledit

Point taken

I took your advice, as I do appreciate it and respect it. Even if I have not followed it to the last detail.
The fish were moved to there own tank. Low light ,higher temperatures,bare bottom, frequent and large water changes, air stone, pre filter sponges. Approximately 6 days with no improvement.
I also know the fish are sick. White poop, not eating,starring at the back of the tank not moving. Yes I will admit. It is difficult to sit and watch them like that without taking further action.
I take it this brand metro is not pure? I will look into the brands you suggested.

[Mark N]

I looked at the Angles plus site. I ordered some items.

I completed treating with the Hikari brand metro for 7 days. Still not eating. No improvements I can see. still white or transparent poop.
I raised the temperature to 93 degrees and doing 90% WC for the next 7 to 10 days. If no improvement is noticed what would be the next step?? (Levamisole) ???

[RogueDiscus]

Hi Mark,
I know this has been an on-going thread, but I think it's time to post in the emergency room section and complete the questionnaire. Then folks will have your setup specifics and can give you some direction.

[Mark N]

Is it something a moderator can just move or ?? Start new?

[RogueDiscus]

Hi Mark,
I moved the last couple pics over and started a new thread there. Please go fill out the questionnaire. Good luck!

[Mark N]

Thank you!!!!!!