8 foot Wild Tank and Sump plus Water Changes

[JBurgo]

This is a link to my first post on Simply and it's how my tank looked when I became a member: http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?126400-New-Wild-Discus-a-few-questions
This is my most recent post and how my tank presently looks: http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?127735-Purigen
I was inspired by this thread to show my system: http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?118508-Lets-see-those-sumps

I run something pretty close to the Herbie Method. I've labelled all photos to try to make the plumbing obvious:
A: Return Pipe
B: Full Syphon Down Pipe
C: Trickle through Durso Standpipe /Emergency Overflow

I need a quiet system because the tank is in the Master Bedroom. This system is dead silent, except for the return pump, which I'm presently trying to upgrade to something quieter, any help would be appreciated: http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?127641-Quietness-Rating-Tunze-Silence-1073-040-Vortech-M1&highlight=

The only recommendation I would make to others who intend to use a similar system is that on the Full Syphon Down Pipe, I got lucky, and full flow matches my desired sump flow perfectly, so I can have the valve at full, because I can set the flow to trickle through the Durso Standpipe with the valve on the Return Pipe (which effectively limits the flow down the Durso). I would ordinarily recommend 2 valves on the Full Syphon Down Pipe, one to limit the flow (probably a gate valve) and one to shut off the syphon during water changes (probably a ball valve). That way you can leave the gate valve set perfectly to trickle through the Durso at the correct flow, and shut off the syphon with the ball valve whenever you need to, leaving it primed to restart after the water change /maintenance.

The only thing I really don't like about my sump and would redesign if I had my time again, is that I would like to be able to remove the filter sock without dismantling pipes. So I would make a down chamber which overflowed into the sock instead.

In my sump I wanted to combine the benefits of a 100 micron filter sock, ceramic media like Marine Pure and Bio Balls, so I adapted a waterfall into a trickle tray. I've also recently added Purigen and I'm trying to get Pothos started.

I'll also include some information on my water changes.

Here's my system:
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[JBurgo]

For interest I'll include some Water Change and Maintenance pictures.

I have removable planted logs to make it easy to vacuum. Some of the little things I have that make life easier are a shut off valve for the refill tubs, and an L fitting for the 7000 Lph return pump to get to the bottom of the refill containers.

I also put a picture of the way that I do quick daily vacuums straight into the sump.

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[Jack L]

Hey Jason, read through some of your posts. nice progess.

1. for your pump noise. what helped me was sitting the pump on a foam sponge to isolate the the physical contact and noise transfer/amplifying effect of the sump and cabinet
2. i run herbie, i just turn off the pump and let the display tank drain into sump. is there a reason you don't want to do this?
3. how did you connect the garden hose to the vinyl hose?

p.s. i gave up on filter socks. plugged too fast for me. i have one now that i cut big slots in it to act as a diffusor

[JBurgo]

Thanks for the response Jack,

My current Resun S-3000 return pump has suction cups on the base that dampen the vibration. I don’t think a foam sponge will be compatible with the suction cups underneath? I surround the pump with filter foam to dampen immediate noise and vibrations (I included a photo). I also use high density foam to dampen fixtures on the return pipe (as shown in the attached photo).

I bought my tank second hand, it was exactly the size I wanted and could fit through the window it needed to come through, the weir was on the correct side, it's also a tall tank which I also wanted, so I got lucky. The guy had it set up with the return going through the weir, where a Herbie syphon really ought to go. Not knowing anything about systems, I copied his plumbing, but the Durso was very noisy. So I had a think, and decided to do something like a Herbie method. I left the return pipe going through the weir and passing over the tank, because I would have to pass something over the side, either the return or the Syphon, and this way the return isn't visible from the far side of the tank which is facing the entry to the Master bedroom. And I put the syphon over the side of the tank where the weir is, because it faces a corner of the room and is less visible.

Long story short, I need to prime my syphon because it passes up over the side of the tank. I prime it by sucking on the flexible tube, the flexible tube is handy because I can pass it out to my mouth if I ever need to start it. So having a ball valve shut off is handy because it leaves the syphon pipe primed when I shut off the return pump, and in normal use I never have to manually restart it, I just turn the ball valve back on.

I think showing my system is handy for people who would like to run the Herbie system, who possibly only have a Durso Standpipe, but don't have room in their weir to drill a second hole. It gives an option for those people, which I've seen loads of systems set up like that, and they're quite noisy. I just want to make the point that I would use a gate valve as well, because that way you can regulate the syphon flow and shut off the syphon while it's still primed with the ball valve (without having to re-regulate the syphon flow every time). I hope I can be helpful here.. maybe you can call it the Burgo, ha ha.

I made a photo of where I joined the flexible tube to the PVC with a hydroponics clip (that's how I clamp the Vacuum tube to the extension too and dump it down the shower in the on suite). But now I realise you're talking about filling the aging barrel. There's a garden hose just under our window in the on suite, which I just pull through the window and clip to the shut off fitting pictured, and stick it in the refill barrel, it locks in nicely under the lid. I wanted to show how easy and cheap it was to make the shut off fitting, and how I use it.

I use a lot of black heat pipe insulation as noise and vibration dampener which is very effective, especially around drilled holes in glass lids where the pvc pipes pass through, and on the return pipe which would otherwise vibrate on surfaces. I have lids on everything, which reduce noise, but they can cause echos and hums if you don't seal them, and the heat pipe insulation does a good job of covering holes that otherwise make noise.

I also install my bulk heads backwards so that I can uninstall them without cutting anything. I had to make a special tool to tighten them inside the weir.

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[Jack L]

your 3rd photo, is that 1 pipe for overflow, and one return there? so you don't have 4 pipes? like i have here: http://forum.simplydiscus.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=94063&d=1454775622

i would still try putting the pump on sponge, it won't hurt the suction cups, what you have surrounding it looks like what i set mine on. i was surprised the noise dampening that had.

backward bulkheads: interesting, i'd never thought of that. i just hope i don't have to mess with them regardless, it is really hard reaching around under a tank!!!

[JBurgo]

I'll try your sponge suggestion, I'll remove my suction cups and see how it sounds, but I've already sent back my unimpressive Tunze Silence and traded it up for a Vortex M1, I hope I'm not throwing good money after bad!

The bulk heads backwards come in handy if you ever have to move your tank, saves you re-doing all your plumbing too.

The 3rd photo is of the Syphon Down and the Durso Overflow Down, the syphon has the flexible tubing attached. Looks like you have 4 pipes because you have 2 Return Pipes, to spread the flow to both sides of the tank, considering you have a central weir. I only have one return pipe at the far side of the tank.

I made some illustrations because I know my tangle of pipes is probably confusing. The second illustration is my suggestion that I called the Burgo Method, which I think is a really good solution for people who have only one hole drilled in a small sump, who want to quiet down a Durso Standpipe. It's a way to get the Herbie method going without rebuilding the sump and drilling another hole. You can install it as a small modification to an existing system.

If I had my time again I'd set up a true Herbie Method for my tank. My system has ended up a bit of a compromise because of how it was set up to begin with by the tank's original owner. But it does hide the pipes better this way so I'm not unhappy with it.

Personally, I think the Bean Animal is overkill. I'd like someone to explain how it's better than the Herbie Method when combined with a Durso Standpipe? The Herbie only requires 2 pipes instead of the Bean Animal's 3 pipes. The Bean Animal has 2 emergency overflows, which to me seems to just add additional unsightly piping and take up valuable space for nothing. If my syphon were ever to get blocked, my system would revert to the standard Durso Standpipe and make a bit more noise to alert me, same as the Bean Animal.

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[JBurgo]

p.s. i gave up on filter socks. plugged too fast for me. i have one now that i cut big slots in it to act as a diffusor

A lot of people say this, but for me they're the only thing effective enough. Every time I use any other filter media I miss too much and the sump gets filthy fast. Here's a pic of mine after 3 days when I change it. I just turn them inside out like this and hose it off with a pressure fitting. Takes about 30 seconds, then I alternate it with a dry one.

I think it's possible that I get a lot of waste from the surface of the sand before it breaks down and passes through the Sock. I vacuum once a day after the evening feed. My Return Pump isn't that fast and I only turn over the tank about 4 times an hour, 600L at 2400Lph I estimate.

How does that filter sock compare to other people's filter socks after that time? Are yours clogged by then?

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[Woodduck]

4" are too small. 7 x 16 is much better.

[JBurgo]

4" are too small. 7 x 16 is much better.

My filter socks are 13" long, in the photo they're turned inside out for cleaning. The photo shows the dirtiest they get before cleaning, so I think they're suitable to the task. If I could get larger in there I would do it though, if not just because they would be a little easier to turn inside out to clean. If you have a look at my sump, my system came second hand, and the space on the down section was too small, I had to mount the sock high and overlap it.. so I could only just squeeze the 4" in unfortunately.

[JBurgo]

My Vectra M1 came yesterday and I installed it today. I have to say: `I am stoked with it!`. On my system, where I'm running it slower than 1/2 it's capacity, she's quiet baby.

I can hear it within a distance of about 1 meter with the cupboard door open. I can hear it from about a foot away with the cupboard door closed. I was sitting trying to listen for it a few meters away (with all the doors shut to block out ambient noise) and I noticed that I could hear it faintly `underneath the sound of the ringing of my own ears`! It was at that point that I realized I was trying too hard and accepted that it was pretty darn good.

One of the additional benefits is the vibrations are next to nothing. The pipes that I've previously mounted insulated on foam to stop vibration going into the tank and frame, just don't vibrate. I have to feel for the vibration on the pipes as carefully as I have to listen for the sound of the pump. I've always wondered how the fish go feeling the vibrations in the water, which is one of the reasons I've tried to insulate the tank and frame as much as possible from vibrations. They won't have that now, so I think it might mean happier fish too.

The instructions and calibration are a pain. You can't just plug it in and go, or you could, but the minimum default setting was faster than I could use. They need to set it up so that people who want to, can have the no fuss default that just goes from 0 to 100. I tried to set it up so that the minimum setting was my normal sump speed and the maximum setting was a faster setting so that I could have a surge through the tank, but it wouldn't accept it. It's such a pain to set up that I just gave up and set it on a single speed where I would normally have it, which is all it would let me do (I think because I'm running it below it's default lowest setting).

I don't care about all the other bells and whistles, I just wanted a quiet pump, and I certainly have that now. I can't even hear my entire tank from laying in my bed in the same room at night. I have to get used to it because my heart still skips a beat when I walk into the room and hear silence, I get an `Oh no, the fish!` moment, then I look at the weir and It's at the top, and in the back of my head I think.. `I'd better turn up the flow a bit, there doesn't seem to be much`.

@Jack I tried mounting the Resun on the foam block like you said, actually it did do something, it seemed to make the vibrations a little better and `changed the sound` a bit, probably not much quieter as far as the pump noise, but I'd say it took out a bit of the hum. I would have kept it as opposed to the suction cups. Except of course for the new pump.

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[JBurgo]

Overnight, a couple of interesting things:

1. The sound in the middle of the night is equivalent to having the bedroom door open and hearing the fridge running in another room.

2. At night there's a faint glow at the back of the tank (in the middle between the stumps) from the controller under the tank. I wonder if this will be good for the fish, to help them not spook at night (not that they do), but as a moonlight setting? Or if it's bad, because it may cause them not to sleep properly? Not sure. Pity you can't deactivate the LEDs.

3. This morning my wife spotted why the controller wasn't adjusting, she saw that the light was slowly cycling between light green and dark green. Somehow I'd accidentally got it on Speed Lock, by pressing and holding the Mode button. I'll be done for if I lose that instruction booklet!

I made a picture of the `normal Herbie Method`, to include in my previous post ^^, but I can't edit that, so I'll put it here. The reason is: The Herbie Method is what I would recommend for a silent system, and it's much more practical than how my tank is set up (you never have to worry about breaking the syphon). And if people are looking at this thread for `how to make your sump system quiet`, then this is actually the missing component. And the drawing is consistent and comparable to my other drawings (I'm thinking there will be some people reading this who may not know what the Herbie Method is).

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[RogueDiscus]

I leave a night light on in the room every evening, one of those that turns on automatically.

[JBurgo]

I cleaned the sump sponges out today (circled in red). It's been a month since the last thorough sump clean. The amount of crud in the sponges was astounding. I wish I took a photo of the crud, but I didn't think of it. It was a yellowy brown and a bit clumpy.

They're course bio sponges, but some of my reasoning for having them is to inhibit movement of any debris through the sump, hopefully concentrating in areas where the blue dots are, to be easily syphoned. I want to avoid the Marine Pure media from getting clogged with particles.

I've been using a 100 micron filter sock and changing it out every 3 days. I'm pretty sure the crud in the sponges is bacteria and the associated waste generated within the sump.

Am I better off getting rid of the sponges entirely (I know reefers think of them as `sludge factories`), or are they doing their job and actually capturing crud, which I should just clean more regularly? At the moment I'm leaning towards just turfing them.

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[Hart24601]

I would get rid of sponges, get a bucket head wet/dry vac and makes cleaning the sump super easy. I have 4 or 5 marine pure blocks in a couple sumps and they have never had issues with detritus clogging. With the sponges gone that detritus will settle on bottom and a bucket head vac will suck it out easy! Even better is to keep the detritus in circulation so the socks pick it up on the next pass.

I think my filter socks generally last about three days, but I run two socks on each sump, so that helps them last and they look far darker than yours when I pull them!

I wouldn't worry about the light hurting the fish, I run moonlights and on my growout I ran lights 24hr a day so could have auto feeder go at night. Saw nothing but positive things there.

Can you line the sump with sound absorbing panels?

[Jack L]

A lot of people say this, but for me they're the only thing effective enough. Every time I use any other filter media I miss too much and the sump gets filthy fast. Here's a pic of mine after 3 days when I change it. I just turn them inside out like this and hose it off with a pressure fitting. Takes about 30 seconds, then I alternate it with a dry one.

I think it's possible that I get a lot of waste from the surface of the sand before it breaks down and passes through the Sock. I vacuum once a day after the evening feed. My Return Pump isn't that fast and I only turn over the tank about 4 times an hour, 600L at 2400Lph I estimate.

How does that filter sock compare to other people's filter socks after that time? Are yours clogged by then?

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when i was feeding heavy, mine were way more dirty than that and all the way up to the top they were dirty. after a couple days they overflowed.
it took me 2 washes with clorox to get them clean.

[JBurgo]

I would get rid of sponges, get a bucket head wet/dry vac and makes cleaning the sump super easy.Thanks, I'll definitely look into it, at the moment I syphon it, but that would pull it out with much more power and be very effective.
Even better is to keep the detritus in circulation so the socks pick it up on the next pass.I don't think it's detritus from the tank, I don't think it could've passed through the filter sock? I think it must have developed in the sump, specifically in the sponges? I'd like to know if this actually could be the case, or if it must be getting through my socks. Actually, during this time, I did change from 200 micron socks to 100 micron, so it might not be a true indication of the 100 micron socks.

I think my filter socks generally last about three days, but I run two socks on each sump, so that helps them last and they look far darker than yours when I pull them!I vac the tank every day, at night after all feeding, so I usually pick up most stuff within 12-14 hours (it's usually quite clean still in the morning). I only push about 2500 Lph through the sump for a 600 L tank, which I think is probably slow (4x an hour). So I think I pick up quite a bit before it enters the sump, I definitely get a lot of undissolved poo straight out of the tank. I don't know if this is good or bad, it's possibly how I'm able to keep the sump cleaner.
Can you line the sump with sound absorbing panels?I used to line it with egg crate, and had the sponge in with the pump as well, but with the new Vectra M1 I don't need to worry about sound at all.

when i was feeding heavy, mine were way more dirty than that and all the way up to the top they were dirty. after a couple days they overflowed.
it took me 2 washes with clorox to get them clean.Yeah, like I said ^^ I think there's a number of contributing factors to my single filter 4" X 13" sock not getting as dirty as other people's. I don't know if what's going on in my tank is `better`, maybe I need to get a few more photos of the stages I do things (to show what I clean up when), it might help the conversation. But I cut the little plastic handles out of the top to help me flip it inside out and I hose it off while the tank refills. Then I replace it with another dry one (just because I don't want to introduce chlorine into the sump where the bio is, even a little bit).

Before I used socks I used the white filter material and I found it absolutely useless, It would be inconsistent, and water would eventually follow the easiest path and escape to the sump without much filtration, and sludge would pass through and build up in the bio. When it was thicker it inhibited the flow, and I had to manage it to be the right thickness so the chamber didn't overflow, and then when it clogged, it overflowed anyway. When I removed it to replace it, I couldn't stop a lot of the crud falling back into the sump with the water that poured out of it as I lifted it. I personally found it a nightmare. I hated dealing with it, so I changed it less. The filter socks never spill the crud they catch back into the sump, and I think they work out cheaper in the long run too, for me anyway.

[JBurgo]

I bought a 2 little fishes 150 reactor, couldn't resist the new toy, so it looks like I'll be rigging that up to the return with Purigen.

I've been thinking about increasing the size of the syphon to get more flow through the sump (pity, I just set that one up). I could probably crack up the flow to 3500 Lph (6x an hour instead of 4x). Removing the sponges would help the sump handle the extra flow too.

And of course, I'll definitely remove the sponges, if on the next clean they contain sludge again. I just want to see how they go with 100% 100 micron socks.

And I'm going to look into a Wet&Dry vac.

[Hart24601]

Sounds like you have things pretty well sorted! I wasn't sure if the sound still bothered you or not. I got some acoustic foam before from amazon to use around a pump that was loud, remote located for pumping water, and seemed to work pretty well just FYI if tank ever becomes louder again. I think it would work better than eggcrate, but who knows!

I would think a lot of the detritus, albeit small particle size, still makes it past filter socks but then flocculates into larger particles as the flow slows down.

[JBurgo]

I would think a lot of the detritus, albeit small particle size, still makes it past filter socks but then flocculates into larger particles as the flow slows down.
Yeah, you're probably right there. I did think about getting even finer micron filter socks, 50 or 25? They're harder to get, I could get some from China, but they're overpriced and not very well made, some of them have steel rings (which are probably not stainless and would rust). They're not very common under 100 micron.

[DJW]

I use the nylon mesh filter bags 7"x16" from Duda Deisel. They go down to 10 micron, and it looks like they ship internationally. These are washable and last a long time.

https://www.dudadiesel.com/search.php?query=%2Bfilter+%2Bbag&i=filterbags

[JBurgo]

Interesting, I currently have a 4" X13" 100 micron bag that sits in a plastic bracket.

I could put a 7" X16" 25 micron bag around it (one inside the other). The hanging strap would fit over the existing plastic bracket, locking them both together.

Is this a good idea? Anyone see any problems with this before I spend 50 bucks? The Nylon Mesh seems as though it might pick up what the felt lets through, but be porous enough to allow flow?

What's the ring made out of?

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[DJW]

The ring looks like it must be stainless steel, but you can ask them to be sure. Here is one that I cut apart to make something.

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[JBurgo]

Thanks Dan,
I started a new thread to see if others had experience with what I was thinking: http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?127940-Socks-in-Socks&highlight=
But I don't have any responses so I think I can assume people aren't sure.
So I went ahead and bought a few of the 7" X16" 10 micron Nylon Mesh bags, with the intention of putting my 4" X 13" 100 micron Felt sock inside a 7" X 16" 10 micron Nylon Mesh sock.
We'll see how they go when they arrive.

[DJW]

10 micron is very fine and might not work. I have never used one that fine in a sump, I occasionally use that size when refilling tanks to catch fine particles when the water in the aging barrels get stirred up. The 25 micron bags flow much better. Maybe a 100, then a 50, then a 25?

If you find that its too fine, they do have other uses. You can attach one to a powerhead to quickly clean a tank.

[JBurgo]

Yeah, I probably should've gone one of each. In the end my thinking was that I seem to be getting less detritus than other people. Only one way to find out I guess.

[JBurgo]

The ring looks like it must be stainless steel, but you can ask them to be sure. Here is one that I cut apart to make something.
I can confirm after contacting the company that the ring is just `steel welded into a ring`.

Is there any reason not to include steel into the system like this? Or is it best to cut a small hole in the sleeve, cut the steel and remove it, and replace it with a plastic ring? I'm concerned with it adding heavy metals to the system.

[Swedgin]

That is such a sophisticated system, well done. I'm kinds scared of sumps so I stick to canisters, but they work really well for me.
Well done though, nice fish in there, too

[JBurgo]

That is such a sophisticated system, well done. I'm kinds scared of sumps so I stick to canisters, but they work really well for me.
Well done though, nice fish in there, too
Thanks, I'll be changing it up again soon though. I'm getting an Emperor Aquatics UV Sterilizer, and they're fairly long, so plumbing it into the return will probably be more efficient if I send the return under the tank instead of over. Which will mean I'll be able to use the current return as a True Herbie syphon, giving me more flow too. Still sort of tossing around whether I want t go that way.

I'll also be adding a Purigen Reactor. But I definitely want to use the Vectra to do it all to keep the sound low.

I'm thinking I'll need a flow meter because if I install the UV Sterilizer in parallel with the return (using a gate valve for adjustment), I can't see how I could possibly quantify flow without one. Interested in opinions on flow meters, thinking I'll probably go with a variable area flow meter?

I'll also need to add a non-return valve because the UV light needs to stay on (and covered with water) during periods of non-flow, during water changes and maintenance. Apparently turning it on and off repeatedly shortens the life of the globe considerably.

[Debow]

Watch the UV, when I had mine one the UV casing would get very warm if doing long water changes.

[Neptune]

Watch the UV, when I had mine one the UV casing would get very warm if doing long water changes.

You should turn the UV off if you are not circulation water through it when doing a WC. It's really hard on them!

[JBurgo]

You should turn the UV off if you are not circulation water through it when doing a WC. It's really hard on them!
Thanks for the warning Neptune. I'm planning my plumbing now. I'm thinking of installing the UV unit on an angle to prevent unpurged air causing a cavity.

I also bought a Variable Area Flow Meter which I'll run in line with it to make sure it's getting good flow, that has to be installed vertically.

Just before the Return, I'll install a 3 Way Valve to divert the Return Flow directly back into the sump so that when I'm doing a WC or maintenance, I can make a loop through the sterilizer to keep it cooler. I can crack the Vectra back quite easily from the master control so it's not smashing through.

The model of the UV sterilizer is: Emperor Aquatics 40 Watt Smart UV EU40-230
If anyone's interested, they have them on special at the moment at Salty Supply.

The variable area flow meter I bought off ebay from a surplus distributor selling off unused equipment.
107697 Georg Fischer SK73 Variable Area Flow Meter - 198 803 319 d32 DN25

[JBurgo]

I made a flow chart of my intentions for the installation of the UV sterilizer. I don't want to overdo it, but I think I might need more Check Valves to prevent backflows. Opinions?

I also made an enquiry to Pentair Aquatics about the installation of the UV Sterilizer, I'll report back any information:

I am currently installing a Emperor Aquatics Smart UV 40W 02040. I am aware that turning the bulb off and on repeatedly will shorten the lifespan of the bulb. Considering that I do large water changes 2x a week, I want to avoid continually turning it off and on. I am aware that the product needs to maintain some flow while it's switched on, and will likely overheat if it were to be full of water but have no flow during water changes. I'm rigging a diversion with a closed loop through the sump to maintain some flow through the product during this time. I would like to know what the minimum flow rate, and minimum water volume for the closed loop are, in order to not overheat the product. Also knowing the projected temperature that this minimum volume and flow rate ought to develop could be helpful. I can't find this sort of information anywhere. Thanks.

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[farebox]

I have the same UV unit for my 125G tank, I do turn my return pump off 2 x daily for feeding, so the UV will be off too. I don't how this effects the unit in the long run. I change the bulb every 13 months as recommended, 50% WC's 3 x wkly. Also Purigen media reactor installed. I do negative water testing just gauge water quality on how my discus are doing= some very happy and healthy fellas. Love your design for your sump and very best when it all is up running on your tank, peace out. P.S. Just an reminder, this UV unit is a monster, a large piece of hardware.

[JBurgo]

It's the life of the globe that would be being affected by switching on and off. I've seen your system on your video Roland, your tank is definitely clean and your fish look happy mate :). Our sterilizers are rated to 1000L, I think you're using yours as the entire return, is that correct? I wonder what the bulb life is when you're oversizing it like we both are, probably stretches it even longer, but it would be good to see the actual deterioration graphs.

I went for the 40W standard unit instead of the 40W lite unit (rated same as my tank at 600L) because they're the same except for the housing, and my intention is to keep the unit cool during WCs, the ongoing costs will be the same. And there were a few problems with the Lite versions burning out the PSUs in the reviews, could be from the extra heat.

Even BRS oversized their unit on their YouTube, so they could run it back into their sump and avoid flow rate measuring issues from merging it with their main return line. This decreases the efficiency of the unit by 1/3. Personally, I think it would have been more beneficial for their audience if they just solved the problems, obviously money's not an issue for them.

I have an 8 foot tank, so mine will definitely get under the cabinet, but I'm waiting for it to arrive to decide exactly how, because I store all the other WC things under there. I'm sure you could hide yours if you were motivated to.

[Ryan925]

I made a flow chart of my intentions for the installation of the UV sterilizer. I don't want to overdo it, but I think I might need more Check Valves to prevent backflows. Opinions?

I also made an enquiry to Pentair Aquatics about the installation of the UV Sterilizer, I'll report back any information:

I am currently installing a Emperor Aquatics Smart UV 40W 02040. I am aware that turning the bulb off and on repeatedly will shorten the lifespan of the bulb. Considering that I do large water changes 2x a week, I want to avoid continually turning it off and on. I am aware that the product needs to maintain some flow while it's switched on, and will likely overheat if it were to be full of water but have no flow during water changes. I'm rigging a diversion with a closed loop through the sump to maintain some flow through the product during this time. I would like to know what the minimum flow rate, and minimum water volume for the closed loop are, in order to not overheat the product. Also knowing the projected temperature that this minimum volume and flow rate ought to develop could be helpful. I can't find this sort of information anywhere. Thanks.

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I don't sew why turning it off a couple times per week will hurt the bulb. Uv bulbs tend to lose efficiency after about 12-18 months whether the bulb is burnt out or not.

I am going with an aqua ultraviolet unit because they are designed to accept much higher flow rates that way the entire return volume can be run through the sterilizer without tons of valves and tees and things like that.

[JBurgo]

I don't sew why turning it off a couple times per week will hurt the bulb. Uv bulbs tend to lose efficiency after about 12-18 months whether the bulb is burnt out or not.

I am going with an aqua ultraviolet unit because they are designed to accept much higher flow rates that way the entire return volume can be run through the sterilizer without tons of valves and tees and things like that.
If a product is showing much higher flow rates with the same wattage bulb and a similar sized unit.. I think it's pretty obvious it's not going to be doing as efficient a job at that flow rate. The Aqua Ultraviolet 40W unit has a flow rate recommendation of 3660Lph as their suggested maximum. By that recommendation, I could use the same flow rate on the Emperor Aquatics unit, and get the same results. The Water Flow Rate on the Emperor Aquatics unit for Protozoa is 180,000 µWs/cm² whereas the suggested maximum for the Aqua Ultraviolet unit is 90,000 µWs/cm².

[JBurgo]

Also, if you look up the Koi world where they literally see their UV sterilizers effects. I've read on their forums that turning your UV sterilizer off and on once a day will halve the life of their globes. That's substantial enough for me to avoid regularly doing that IMO.

[JBurgo]

Here's a picture of the 10 micron filter sock around the 100 micron sock. Still experimental. I had it running for 2 days just hanging loosely in place, but it began to overflow. So I've secured it to the sock holder better, so it's raised properly. Maybe I'll get 3 or 4 days out of it that way? It did collect a decent film that passed through the 100, and it was really easy to clean out. Seems like a very solid product.

I've also introduced about 1/2 a cup of Rox 0.8 in a Purigen bag, which is 1/2 the recommended dose for my tank volume. I'm looking for a neat way to lock the open end shut using an entirely plastic clip of some kind. I want to lie the bag flat across the filter flow.

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[JBurgo]

Just want to share a few photos, bit sick of posting sumps :) :
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[Jack L]

1st pick is great

[JBurgo]

Thanks Jack, I didn't really get the shot I wanted. I've been thinking about getting some pics of the Nhamunda Maracana Blue (second picture), and I liked him next to the Alenquer Cuipeua. But I just missed the shot unfortunately, or it didn't line up as I wanted. The Blue has come such a long way and is really starting to colour up. When I got him he was so damaged, black as a piece of burnt toast with slime coming off him, I never would've guessed what he'd look like. He's turned out to be such an unusual looking fish. Those photos are untouched either, straight out of the camera, usually I at least crop.

[DatDiscusDude]

Thanks Jack, I didn't really get the shot I wanted. I've been thinking about getting some pics of the Nhamunda Maracana Blue (second picture), and I liked him next to the Alenquer Cuipeua. But I just missed the shot unfortunately, or it didn't line up as I wanted. The Blue has come such a long way and is really starting to colour up. When I got him he was so damaged, black as a piece of burnt toast with slime coming off him, I never would've guessed what he'd look like. He's turned out to be such an unusual looking fish. Those photos are untouched either, straight out of the camera, usually I at least crop.

I was curious about the 2nd pic and his odd shape and look. Sounds like he had a rough start and you saved him. I guess he will never win any shows but makes an unusual addition to the tank. Good for you giving him a fighting chance!

You got some butes in there!

[Clawhammer]

Its clear all the hard work is paying off, amazing tank and great looking wild discus!

[JBurgo]

I was curious about the 2nd pic and his odd shape and look. Sounds like he had a rough start and you saved him. I guess he will never win any shows but makes an unusual addition to the tank. Good for you giving him a fighting chance!

You got some butes in there!
Thanks for the nice comments guys. Here's the earliest picture I could find of him. This is a few days in my tank where he's starting to show a little colour. You can't see how thin he was in this picture either though. I wish I was more aware of getting some photos when I first got them, it would be good to show where they came from. I have some bits and pieces, but nothing comprehensive unfortunately. I was possibly embarrassed with myself for even purchasing them in that condition, not sure. I do know I had my fingers crossed for a few months there.

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[JBurgo]

I've been doing the double bagged thing for a while now. And it's awesome what it does. I get a film on the 10 micron bag that clogs after about a day and a 1/2. The film stinks, it has that `nasty old fish tank water smell`. That stink isn't going through my sump or into my Rox 0.8, Purigen or Bio!

My water was previously clean, but you all know what Discus smell like.. I knew when my arms had been in the water. That smell has gone now.. but adding carbon has no doubt contributed to that, although smelling that film, the 10 micron bag has to be making an impact as well.

The problem is that about 1/2 the surface area of the bag is pushing against the glass because it's jammed into such a small place. With the full surface area exposed it would last 2 days without question.

I need to either make another sump, (which would allow me to solve some other minor issues, like `better removal of media for cleaning`) or make an extension to the sump with a couple of bulkheads, where I would split the sump into `mechanical` and `bio` sections. Remember, I have a lot of plumbing to do in the near future, so making another sump while I'm at it.. it's a reasonable time to be thinking about it.

My intention now is to mount the socks in such a way as to be able to remove them with no fuss or interruption to the flow as I've seen in some other sumps. The problem I face is that the DudaDiesel sock has a metal ring and doesn't insert into a hole like other aquarium socks. I'm up for ideas on how I could mount it to accept flow in that way. Or another option for purchasing them. 10 micron is far removed from normal aquarium usage.

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[Jack L]

you don't have much room to work in your current sump do you?

mine is a trigger sump, there is room to reach in and change the sock while everything is still running. have a look at some of their designs.

[JBurgo]

I made a few more photos, the first one is a morning shot, I think it's pretty cute when they wake up all shy.

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[JBurgo]

you don't have much room to work in your current sump do you?

mine is a trigger sump, there is room to reach in and change the sock while everything is still running. have a look at some of their designs.

No, you're right, particularly in the Mechanical Filtration area. This is the kind of thing I'm thinking of: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9-eVVZ1lxk But how to use the 10 micron socks from DudaDiesel? I'm thinking that video looks like it uses similar socks with a recess cut for them to fit into. I want to do a 2 step filtration in series, starting with 100 micron and then pouring into 10 micron. The 10 micron I want to change daily or every second day. They literally take 20 seconds to hose out, but at the moment they take about 10 mins to remove /install. The trigger sumps are doing the kind of thing I'm thinking, but their socks aren't in series.

My sump came second hand with the tank, so it's always been a compromise. What originally came was in red and I added the blue. I wanted to get the wet /dry because I like the extra aeration without the noise of an air pump. And I wanted the filter sock, most people are trying to get away from them, but I like them.

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[JBurgo]

My Heckel has found a hidie lately in this log, I actually caught my large Brown copying him the other day too. He was there tonight so I ran for the camera and quickly snapped this one off before he came out because I was around.

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[DatDiscusDude]

Wow! That is an awesome pic! Love the clown loaches chillin below