Advice on drip system for office 300g

[Maxisbored]

As the title suggests, I'm in the process of building a ~300g(?) (200×80×80 cm) for my office. I have the tank plumbed directly to a water source and have a virtually unlimited budget when it comes to fresh water, but i don't want to waste more than I have to, so have a question I couldn't find an answer to:

How quick ran i run a drip (stream?:P) without killing off (chlorine/chloramine) or starving the bacteria in the fx6 i plan to use for this, while keeping my fish happy? For the first while, the tank will be stocked pretty lightly (10-15 juvie discus) until they grow out. Does anyone have links or advice on such a setup? I want to keep this tank as low maintenance as possible, and i'm ok with dripping out the tank once a day, I just want to make sure that what i'm doing won't hurt my fish or the bacteria they depend on... If I had a 300 gallons per day drip, do i need a prefilter to remove chlorine? Would half the speed be just as effective? Can I first drip it to a bucket to gas out the chlorine? Any advice on this topic would be much appreciated.

Thanks so much!

[Akili]

Hi Max, Welcome to SimplyDiscus,Daily large water changes are much better than drip system in my opinion, then again some might suggest the other way.You will need some way of removing chlorine and chloramine. Check out first if your water has chlorine and chloramines.Work out your water change with this.......http://www.angelfish.net/DripSystemcalc.php With unlimited budget Sump is another option, some might say the best one.

[Maxisbored]

Hey! thanks :) I've read a lot of places that a drip is the way to go when it comes to stability. I suppose I could somehow automate water changes, but a drip is so much easier and there couldn't be a better opportunity than this to try it out, so I'll try it, even if it fails.

A sump is also possible, but the truth is; i have this fx6 kicking around and if i put a sump in there I know i'll never stop working on it. It's another tank. I'll be messing with the plumbing, the media, lights, i'll build in an algae scraper, etc etc etc. I need something I can hookup and leave. I'll still do my weekly WC (or more if stock gets out of hand), but I want this to be as bullletproof as can be, without having the temptation to mess with it all the time :P

edit: i've seen the link. Good to know - but it doesn't actually tell me how much a drip is ideal, or how much is too much...

[Akili]

One more thing to consider, Discus produce excessive slime more than any fish which will build up/collect on everything. With a drip system the water is fresh but the tank gets filthy and complete wipe downs are routinely required especially with juveniles. Complete tank draining and filling is the best method to keep things under control.

[xxalanxx]

wow, unlimited budget. If cost is not needed to worry, I would do both, drip + manual water change :)

[Maxisbored]

Ha. The unlimited budget is in reference to water and power, not money. Of course, i don't intend on using the drip to replace water changes, and i'll still do them and the maintenance as needed. It's just that this tank isn't at home, so I can't have my boss giving me a hard time for being in there every day. My girl is much easier to negotiate with. :p

It's just that i've never gone about such a build, so i don't know how much water to run before its just wasteful, and how I'll go about keeping that tap water safe for the fish and filter. I really want to avoid unwanted surprises like that i've killed off the bacteria once I've finally cycled it all up.

[Hart24601]

Drips are not the best growing out babies and feeding messy food, but are fantastic for long term assistance in maintenance as in 10 years or more it's hard to tell how keen you will be on daily waterchanges but the drip keeps going.


Biggest think I think is to not use a drip as an excuse for poor fishkeeping, like letting waste build up on bottom. Not saying you will just FYI.


Even with unlimited water budget drips really start losing efficiency above 20% daily equivalent, although with unlimited water 30% to even 50% daily isn't too bad. For example:

250g system it takes 26 gallons of drip to replace 10% of the tank volume - so you only lose 1 gallon there by doing a drip. (of course keeping in mind you are not siphoning off the bottom but good circulation helps)

Move that to 20% daily water change and it takes 56 gallons of water opposed to 50 gallons with one big change. So you are losing 6 gallons. Still not too bad as losing bit over 10% efficiency.


However if we go to 30% you now need to drip 90 gallons of water opposed to changing 75 gallons at once and you are using 15 gallons more water - around 20 percent more than by using a single water change.

That is generally the maximum I think people should go for efficiency reasons. If it's free you can drip 175 gallons per day in that 250 to match daily 50% W/C (opposed to 125 in single change). However it's still not ideal for growing babies out as they are typically fed messy food and many, many times a day along with pretty heavy stocking densities.

If you run the tap water through the prefilters of a RO system then you can drip in without worry as the carbon does a great job of removing most impurities from water. I would run a sediment and two carbon filters. You can see how long they should last, if Chlorine only in the water they will last around 35,000 gallons each. You can install these very easily for drips.

http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/brs-universal-carbon-block-filter-1-micron.html#tab-full-details
•Specifically formulated for superior Chloramine reduction 1 µm (micron) Nominal Filtration*
•Chlorine 35,000 @ 1 GPM**
•Chloramines 3,500 @ 0.5 GPM***


People here tend to think if someone is talking about a drip then they must not be planning as doing other W/C so I am happy you said you will, because really a drip system is just another tool we can use. Just for cost basis the water cost where I live is $5 for 1000 gallons a month. So adding a drip on the above tank (250g real capacity) doing 50% drips uses 1500 gallons more a month in water than single changes, or 7.5 bucks a month more for my rates. Not too bad really.

[Maxisbored]

Yeah, I see that there's some sort of stigma connecting those on a drip and those that want an excuse not to do maintenance. This isn't the case :P I'm in the hobby because of the hobby, though it's true that I shouldn't be digging around in this like i do at home, these fish won't have anything but the best of my ability, and if a drip can help, then there's no reason why not to. The plumbing under the tank and the water is "free" (as part of the contract for rent in our new office complex) and since I've never used it before, this presents a great opportunity for me to get hands on experience with one. So yeah, i can drip all i want, but i don't want to go so far as to be excessively wasteful...

Ha, that carbon block filter is perfect. I've bookmarked it and will order a few. Thanks :)

[Akili]

Since you do not want to wasteful,please consider that drip system takes a large amount of wastewater to reach an equivalent change of water and the water has chlorine, chloramine, CO2.Possibly pH swing and perhaps nitrates.

[Maxisbored]

Fishkeeping is inherently wasteful. I meant more than necessary.
I see you're against the drip. While i'd be glad to heed any advice, there's no explanation that could result in a sudden ph swing. So unless you provide some serious scientific evidence (that doesn't include "large water changes are much better"), i'm calling hearsay on that. Lastly, I understand the tap water parameters issue. If I didn't, why would I even be making this post?

I don't know how much more clear i need to make it when i said that this isn't an excuse to stop regular maintenance. I appreciate the wealth of knowledge that is this forum, but i came asking for help and all you're telling me is not to drip.

[Akili]

Fishkeeping is inherently wasteful. I meant more than necessary.
I see you're against the drip. While i'd be glad to heed any advice, there's no explanation that could result in a sudden ph swing. So unless you provide some serious scientific evidence (that doesn't include "large water changes are much better"), i'm calling hearsay on that. Lastly, I understand the tap water parameters issue. If I didn't, why would I even be making this post?

I don't know how much more clear i need to make it when i said that this isn't an excuse to stop regular maintenance. I appreciate the wealth of knowledge that is this forum, but i came asking for help and all you're telling me is not to drip.I think that you have got me wrong on the drip system, I am just pointing out the drawbacks after having used the Drip System in the past. First in my case was the chlorine issue which killed the beneficial bacteria so my ammonia levels were always high.Second my water supply has a large pH swing depend upon the time of the year. In the spring time the pH drops quite a bit. Thus my fish were always under stress.Also with the drip system I got complacent so much so that I avoided water changes which meant less siphoning of waste and wipe downs resulting in more sick fish. Lastly where I am the city charges me both ways Water and Sanitary Sewer User Rates which are based on water consumed.After getting rid of the drip system my water bills are about one third now. I know you have mentioned that you will doing still do your weekly changes.In my opinion the drip system is not a very big advantage compare to daily large water changes.
Before you install the drip system just make sure that chlorine and chloramine (if your water supply has it) is taken care of. Age a 5 gallon bucket of water and check the pH swing. Also do a nitrate test on your tap water.If you do take care of the issues I mentioned, the drip system may work great for you and your are successful in achieving your goals.

[Maxisbored]

What drawbacks?


In the spring time the pH drops quite a bit.
That happens. but this problem isn't exclusive to drip. In fact a drip system is much better at acclimatizing fish to water quality changes than a sudden splash of new water, so how is this relevant?


Also with the drip system I got complacent so much so that I avoided water changes which meant less siphoning of waste and wipe downs resulting in more sick fish. Lastly where I am the city charges me both ways Water and Sanitary Sewer User Rates which are based on water consumed.After getting rid of the drip system my water bills are about one third now.
I've already mentioned, utilities are bundled in with the rent we're paying for the space, and that i'll have the drip installed just for added help.


In my opinion the drip system is not a very big advantage compare to daily large water changes.

I think that you have got me wrong on the drip system.

How have i got you wrong? That i assumed a moderator could provide me actual advice, not just something like that a drip kill my fish due to complacency? I know you're only trying to help, and i appreciate that - but you have to see here that i'm just trying to get advice on a topic in which i at least somewhat understand and you're only telling me the same thing over and over which is not to drip and to check my chlorine and chloramine.

[Akili]

It is clear to me that you and I are on different thoughts on drip system.What I have mentioned has been already discussed in many threads in the past. Good Luck!!

[Hart24601]

It's going to be great! Especially if getting larger guys to start. Just got my replacement carbon blocks today for my RO.