First free swimming in new Fish House

[Larry Bugg]

First spawn in the new fish house attached today. Curipera Cross x Mystique Red Cover from Uncle Sam's.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKytSea_p-Y&feature=youtu.be

[GVB]

cant wait to see how the fry turn out on your pair... I just picked up a mystique (reportedly female) from Darwin that arrived yesterday so I hope to cross with my Santarems... very interested to see how that red gets passed down genetically, if it does at all lol

[Jenene]

That will be fun to see those grow. Every thing is shiny, clean and new! Congratulations! A lot of us will be living vicariously here...

[Dis82]

Great video. Congrats and goodluck with the fry

[Keith Perkins]

Very nice Mr. Bugg, congrats on breaking in the new building.

[discuspaul]

Wonderful, Larry - Congrats !
You've put in a hell of a lot of work making this fish room very worthwhile and productive, and I'm sure you're happy & proud over the first positive results - as you should be !
Good work - keep us posted - would love to see some recent pics of your progress with it when you get around to it.

[deliana]

Congratulations Larry, that mystic red cover is beautiful!!!!!

[wdeleon01]

congratulations Larry, great looking pair

[Kingdom Come Discus]

They are looking great Larry!

[roberthu526]

Finally found a breeder in my state! Keep it up!

Thanks for sharing!

[alron2]

Any updated pictures?
Ron

[Larry Bugg]

Any updated pictures?
Ron

Certainly.

The first pair in the video is a Cruipera Cross x Mystique Red Cover. Two batches of grow outs in the video. The first is 9 weeks old, right at 2" and the second is 1 month old right at 1".

The second pair is a San Merah pair. Two batches of grow outs in the video. The first is 9 weeks old at 2" and the second is 1 month old at 1".

The third pair is my Alenquer F1 pair (my favorite). They are still pretty young. There are only about 25 fry with them at 2 weeks old but this is their first successful spawn with fry attached so I am quite pleased.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGjUma8LDo0&feature=youtu.be

[Jenene]

They are really beautiful Larry. This is a really cool thread to follow. Thanks for letting us into your new house of fish!

I had never seen newly hatched fry until I saw Al's last weekend. I knew they would be small but was surprised how small. They reminded me of those little red mites that plants get! It must be so rewarding to watch them grow into the stunning beauties they are destined to become.

[discuspaul]

Great stuff, Larry - keep us posted on the progress.
That tank is immaculate - which I suspect is the case with your entire fish room !

[Poppa Ryno]

Awesome. Glad all is moving forward

[Second Hand Pat]

Very cool Larry, the juvie and pairs look great. That third pair is to die for. :D You are becoming a busy man.
Pat

[DatDiscusDude]

Beautiful! Great looking pairs and lots of fry already! You must be one thrilled man, that fantastic fish room giving back already!

Care to school us or me a bit on the San Merah? Is that a mixed pair of like a golden san merah and a true? The one looks very light and "sunny." How do you plan or see them breeding out if that one isn't a standard San Merah?

I love a dark deep true san merah, these are pretty but look different so it peaked my curiosity and also wondering the offspring, if you breed some true deep san merah, Id love some!

[Loosir]

Awesome Larry!

[brewmaster15]

And so it begins again!:) great seeing you at it again Larry! Good luck with the batch .. looks very promising!
Al

[Larry Bugg]

Beautiful! Great looking pairs and lots of fry already! You must be one thrilled man, that fantastic fish room giving back already!

Care to school us or me a bit on the San Merah? Is that a mixed pair of like a golden san merah and a true? The one looks very light and "sunny." How do you plan or see them breeding out if that one isn't a standard San Merah?

I love a dark deep true san merah, these are pretty but look different so it peaked my curiosity and also wondering the offspring, if you breed some true deep san merah, Id love some!

I believe these are "true" San Merah. This pair is from Dexter Chung. Dexter breeds a lot of the old school strains. You have to keep in mind that with most red discus strains it is only the female that carries a full red color. The males usually aren't as deep in color and quite often don't have as much coverage in red. Here is a better video of them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSKj_Ig2_So

[DatDiscusDude]

Thanks for the info! The link however, doesn't work...

[Larry Bugg]

Thanks for the info! The link however, doesn't work...

Not sure why I was having problems with the link but it is good now.

[Larry Bugg]

They are really beautiful Larry. This is a really cool thread to follow. Thanks for letting us into your new house of fish!

I had never seen newly hatched fry until I saw Al's last weekend. I knew they would be small but was surprised how small. They reminded me of those little red mites that plants get! It must be so rewarding to watch them grow into the stunning beauties they are destined to become.

I never get tired of seeing a pair with fry attached!!


Great stuff, Larry - keep us posted on the progress.
That tank is immaculate - which I suspect is the case with your entire fish room !

Thanks Paul. I do hate to see a tank that isn't clean.


Awesome. Glad all is moving forward

Thanks.

[Larry Bugg]

Very cool Larry, the juvie and pairs look great. That third pair is to die for. :D You are becoming a busy man.
Pat

I really liked the Alenquer F1 pair when Darwin posted the video but then when I got them here in my tank I fell in love with them. Since my plan has been to breed wild males to domestic females these fit into my plans much better since the females are just one generation away from true wilds. I actually have two more female Alenquer F1's coming from Uncle Sam's that Darwin is shipping today. I also have a couple of royal Cuipeua coming from Mark that I hope may turn out to be males to go with them.


Awesome Larry!

Thanks Geoff


And so it begins again!:) great seeing you at it again Larry! Good luck with the batch .. looks very promising!
Al

Taking nearly two years off from breeding really had me on edge, lol. I can't tell you how great it is to be back at it. These guys are getting a feeding of your fdbw's daily and going nuts over them.

[Second Hand Pat]

So you are the one whom got the Royal Cuipeua. I should have known lol.
Pat

[nc0gnet0]

I believe these are "true" San Merah. This pair is from Dexter Chung. Dexter breeds a lot of the old school strains. You have to keep in mind that with most red discus strains it is only the female that carries a full red color. The males usually aren't as deep in color and quite often don't have as much coverage in red. Here is a better video of them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSKj_Ig2_So

I have always been of the impression the San Marah had to be a brown based fish.

Here is an interesting read:

Ghost Discus and Red Colored Fish

As I already mentioned in part I of this article, there has been a very important development in the World of Discus in 1988. Cheang Thean Ewa, a discus breeder from Malaysia managed to breed a mutation that showed no stress bars at all (some of these fish had just a half bar on the top of their eye ) when breeding extremely from generation to generation with brilliant discus.
Another specification that this mutation had was that its’ eyes were white colored and all blue colored shadows on its' body were gone. These specifications made the new mutation look alike a ghost. Therefore this new mutation was called “Ghost Discus”.

The most important characteristic was discovered by the Asian breeders soon. As this fish had no bars, and its’ body was solid colored (single color), it gave them the chance and background to develop the red colored fishes that are still very popular.
As the first step red-brown colored discus with minor (less) bars were breeded with the Ghost Discus.
They managed to achieve the so called “Virgin Red Discus” The Virgin Red Discus, had not a very attractive look and came into being as a Brown discus without bars and stripes. One of the major problem they had with this fish was the huge amount of black pigments the fish had. This was holding up from getting a clear and light red color.

The Asian breeders followed 2 different ways to achieve a more intensive and perfect red color;
Some of them paired the Virgin Red with F2’s that they got from green Wild Discus whom color were light yellow. The result was the “Rose Red Discus”.
Another breeder paired the Virgin Red with light brown colored F2 Wild Discus. This breeder’s name was Hai Khoon Tan from Singapore. Although Hai Khoon Tan was a very good discus breeder he lacked in marketing. As he was aware of the potential of his newly breeded discus he chose to establish a partnership with See Cheow San. In order to establish a good marketing they called the fish “ San Merah” which actually means San’s Red. So they grounded a breeding place at Lim Chung Kang Acrotech Park. They just had two pairs to breed. While one pair was giving them nearly 100% San Merah the other pair gave them just a very low amount of San Merahs. For a long period and by using adoptive parents they managed to breed arround 500-1000 fishes monthly. Soon, as in most partnerships they split. Hai Koon Than, the real breeder changed the fish’s name as “Red Cover” and continued his way. As to be seen here, actually the “San Merah” is the same fish as the “Red Cover”.

To achieve good quality red discus was the common goal of all breeders. One of the breeders having this goal paired the Golden Sunrise, which is a improved variaton of the Golden Discus with the San Merah. The outcoming fish of this breed he called “Red Passion”. This breeder’s name was Ivan Seah.
Other pairings done with this passion, another way the breeding was done is that the F Ones that they got from pairing the Marlboro Red Discus and Golden Discus had been paired with the Rose Red Discus. The fish they got here from they called “Red Melon.
Another dimension of these works was to pair the Golden Discus with the Virgin Red and and to pair the outcoming breed under each other. This way they achieved Discus they called “Tangerine Discus”, “Tangerine Dream” or “Mandarin Discus” as they color was orange.
I think that this shows clearly how important the so called Ghost Discus was in order to get the Red Solid, single colored line.
Also I hope that this will show breeders a path, be a guide while pairing red colored fish and answer some of their questions that they had in mind.
I will try to publish another part of other red vairietes within the oncoming days.
__________________________________________________ ________________________________
All rights reserved. No copies allowed to distribute or used is any other perspective.
Copyright Cüneyt Birol © 2015

** note to admins, I got personal permission to post this from Cuneyt.

[two utes]

Thanks for the updates Larry. Looks like you're really into it now. On a side note are you happy with how you have set up your new cabin for a fish house? I was also wondering if your water quality as far as supply goes is any different to where you were before?

[Larry Bugg]

So you are the one whom got the Royal Cuipeua. I should have known lol.
Pat

LOL, thought you might text and ask if I was the one. The pic looks REALLY nice.

[Larry Bugg]

Thanks for the updates Larry. Looks like you're really into it now. On a side note are you happy with how you have set up your new cabin for a fish house? I was also wondering if your water quality as far as supply goes is any different to where you were before?

I am happy with it but I am still short two 40 breeders to have it complete. Was waiting for the next Petco sale but then they didn't have the 40's at 1$ per gallon. The only down side would be space because I can see myself running out of room but I am not really disappointed about that. I'm spending about 1 hour in the mornings doing water changes on the grow out tanks and then 1 1/2 to 2 hours in the evening doing water changes on all the tanks. I don't think I really want to invest more time during the day than that so what I have is close to ideal for me. I'm just at the point of culling some spawns so I don't grow out of my tank space. I do have some adults that don't fit into my breeding plan and I will sell them which will free up some more tank space.

The only real difference in my water here verses the previous house is the PH is around 8 out of the well/tap and the previous was 7. The KH and GH here are pretty low like it was there and the tds is around 60 and was 40 there. I'm happy with the higher tds. The water here is pretty soft but there appears to be something in the water that is buffering the PH keeping it pretty high. It doesn't drop after 24 hours.

[two utes]

I am happy with it but I am still short two 40 breeders to have it complete. Was waiting for the next Petco sale but then they didn't have the 40's at 1$ per gallon. The only down side would be space because I can see myself running out of room but I am not really disappointed about that. I'm spending about 1 hour in the mornings doing water changes on the grow out tanks and then 1 1/2 to 2 hours in the evening doing water changes on all the tanks. I don't think I really want to invest more time during the day than that so what I have is close to ideal for me. I'm just at the point of culling some spawns so I don't grow out of my tank space. I do have some adults that don't fit into my breeding plan and I will sell them which will free up some more tank space.

The only real difference in my water here verses the previous house is the PH is around 8 out of the well/tap and the previous was 7. The KH and GH here are pretty low like it was there and the tds is around 60 and was 40 there. I'm happy with the higher tds. The water here is pretty soft but there appears to be something in the water that is buffering the PH keeping it pretty high. It doesn't drop after 24 hours.

Thanks for the insight Larry. I'm sure you'll work out the water issues soon enough. Its always a problem running out of space, but more tanks means more work, so i think i see where you're at. Maybe when you are done setting it all up a short video or pictures of the inside of the fish house? Please? :)

[Larry Bugg]

Well you can count on Rick being right most of the time..............

I got with Dexter and he said he keeps both brown based San Merah and gold based San Merah. I sent him a pic of these and he said they were the Gold based. He said there wasn't any pigeon in them.

[Keith Perkins]

Glad you got the clarification Larry, that's really interesting.

[DatDiscusDude]

Thanks to all for the info... I had a feeling they were different than the true sans I have come to know... I, myself and partial to the deep red/brown based. However, these goldens are rather pretty!

[SERG II]

First spawn in the new fish house attached today. Curipera Cross x Mystique Red Cover from Uncle Sam's.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKytSea_p-Y&feature=youtu.be

Hello, Mr. Larry.
I am Sergii from Europe. Could you send some photo of the child this pair . What colour did you receive in this cross? Thanks.