Any thoughts on this tank?

[Jenene]

Ooops...Tank singular.

So I decided to make the crossover to reef but I am struggling with the system I want. At first I thought of a small bio cube type tank. Then I saw the rimless and loved the look. I really like the 45 gallon Red Sea Max 170 that comes ready to go with everything built into the back and a great lighting system, cabinet ect...it also has the ability to upgrade to a bigger sump. I like the flexibility of that. The issue is the price is pretty high. I have been saving for it and was almost there when I saw this tank on Craig's list. As I usually do I made a too quick decision and brought the thing home with me. It is a gorgeous 30 gallon extra high tank. It was only 6 months old and came with an almost new Eshopps overflow and a Hydor in tank skimmer and an Aqueon modular led light which I know I will need to upgrade right away if I keep it. No sump. The guy was using it as a frag refugium and had it hooked up to his main sump.

The problem is the cabinet is so small. It is only 22" long and the smallest sump I can find is 24". I do not want to run a canister for 2 reasons. The first being I don't want to see all the equipment in the tank. I don't even like the fact that the skimmer would be visible. I also have a canister on my community tank and despise maintaining it.

I cleaned it up and re-listed it back on Craig's list at what I paid for it- $225.

Does anyone have any ideas of how I could do a smaller sump? Make one out of an 8 gallon tank? Too small?

Should I convert a wet /dry into a sump? Those are smaller...

My goal is to keep mostly soft corals a few easy fish and a small clean up crew.

If I can figure out how to make it work I may keep it if I don't get any bites on it but would really rather get the one I really wanted... Life is too short to mess around...

I would really appreciate any ideas or suggestions since I know very little about getting these things going. I have been reading and watching lots of BRS videos but this tank is a weird problem. Opinions? Keep it or sell?

If any of you guys would like it I will be at Al's in May and can bring it with. A handy guy could do great things with this I think.

108476108477108478

[Ryan925]

Get a much bigger tank so you can fit any sump you want :)

I know someone with a nice eshopps on a discus tank that is a PITA that would work great for a reef tank

[Jenene]

It didn't take you long to find this post Ryan! I like how you think!

[Kyla]

lol @ ryan! right to the point!

i cant offer any suggestions but its a very neat shape with a big viewing area!

[Jenene]

lol @ ryan! right to the point!

i cant offer any suggestions but its a very neat shape with a big viewing area!

It's for sale Kyla! ;)

[Kyla]

haha! ive sworn never to bring another tank home. i had a bit of an addiction... browsing craigslist is dangerous!

[Jenene]

haha! ive sworn never to bring another tank home. i had a bit of an addiction... browsing craigslist is dangerous!

Where were you last Sunday when I needed you to talk me out of this?

[Jenene]

So a huge thanks to Ryan who advised me to check out tank sizes online. Found that a 10 gallon may possibly be squeezed in there. He also told me about the baffle kits that are sold to fit standard tanks on ebay. So it will be possible to do a good sump if I get stuck with this one.

It is a nice looking tank for sure. I will give it a bit of time and see what happens on CL. If someone does like it at least I can tell them they can have a sump!

Either way I can sleep tonight knowing that I can make it work-thanks my friend!

[nikond70s]

sell that tank and id say go with a rimless. just looks so much cleaner. i personally love rimless shallow reef tanks. gl with whatever route you go

[Jenene]

sell that tank and id say go with a rimless. just looks so much cleaner. i personally love rimless shallow reef tanks. gl with whatever route you go

I am going to try. I love the rimless as well. Although the one I am looking at is not really shallow.

I just really wanted to know that if I had to I could get this running for awhile. It will even make an easier selling point for me being able to tell someone else a sump can be done.

Thanks for the luck! Most likely will be needing a lot of that in the next few months. Hoping to keep the rookie mistakes to a minimum. Already made a huge one. :(

[Debow]

I bought my whole setup tank and sump and return pump for $175 on cl. Prior I was looking at the jbj rl45 they are priced fair and are all in one. I know several that use them with great scuess. My tank is 24"x24" with a 20"x20" sump. I would be patient and look for the best deal.

[Jenene]

Thanks Devon, I saw your post with that tank. That was a great deal. Very cool looking tank. I am really looking forward to picking your brain at Al's in may. I hope you are still going.:)

I have this one set up empty and it is growing on me. I do love the tall sleek look of it. I can really imagine how a great scape with corals could look in this extra tall tank. Originally l liked the all in one models for saving me the trouble of piecing things together- finding the right things which meant work and research. Not laziness but just completely overwhelmed. I was kind of scared not knowing anything about reef. Since I thought I was going to be stuck with this I started doing the leg work as well as getting help here. Casey was kind enough to give me a list of some equipment that would work well together. Ryan convinced me to spec out the tank sizes for a sump. I found out I CAN squeeze a ten gallon into the cabinet and build my own affordable, custom sump. Getting a bit braver now thanks to the support here.

I will lose the high clarity, low lead glass by not going with a newer model. However I knew I would end up upgrading to a bigger sump so why am I spending money on an all in one? The small built in back of the tank sump would be wasted. I really need to just list pros and cons to keeping this one and itemize what I need to upgrade or buy. I am taking my time reading up and finding videos to learn as much as I can. Funny though how many times I keep changing my mind- it's making me dizzy. :crazy:

[Debow]

I will be going to Al's, so you can ask away! I think making a pros and cons list is a good idea. The all in one will be a cheaper tank to start up smaller equipment that is made to go into the back ie: protine skimmers, refugiums, hangon reactors. A sumped system allows more water volume larger flexibility bigger equipment, larger cost. It's really down to what you want out of the tank and the reef, and what your expectations are. You plan on keeping soft corals, LPS, SPS? Having both systems I find my self swearing and cursing my 34g saltwater setup much more than my 240g discus system. I think it is I have higher expectations with my saltwater setup. I am a fan of "KISS" (Keep It Simple Stupid ) and I should have taken my own advice lol, But I am so far in there is no going back now lol.

p.s That is a really tall tank, think about that, when you have to touch the bottom to move frags or pick them up or cleaning it might be a little tricky without a step stool.

[Jenene]

Thanks Devon, I can't wait to meet you guys.

I looked at the tank you were thinking about and it is really nice. I also found this one which also has the nice glass and is an all in one. Just need a light and I really think an auto top off would be helpful.

https://www.amazon.com/Starfire-Aquariums-Complete-Package-24x24x20/dp/B00HY5PD56/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&qid=1491275455&sr=8-8-spons&keywords=jbj+rimless+aquarium&psc=1

I would really consider this one but like you said the one I have is tall. I really like the height. I do need a step stool to reach the bottom but I need one for my discus tank too. That will be the one thing I do already have and not have to buy! :D

I completely agree that the discus are easier. Just clean stable water. Reef has so many aspects that need to stay balanced. I hear that once they are established they are much better and more self sufficient.

I also think your " kiss" is very wise. I am not ready to venture into the dosing and the pellet and calcium reactors. Just too much to go wrong. Baby steps for me, I am not much of a risk taker. A good skimmer, the best light I can buy, some good water movement and a lot of patience. That needs working on but I am practicing it daily!

[Yom]

Hey Jenene sorry I haven't been around, the snow has melted so other hobbies and interests start to take over time now. There are many view on all this as you have found, some say biocube is simplest, some say go rimless, so say make a sump, etc etc etc. All are right and correct with their opinions, its simply researching what YOU truly want and then researching everything that goes with it to make it work. On the 75 I just built I used a 29 gallon tank as a sump and used the "glue" in baffles off ebay to make a bioball compartment, sponge compartment, and a return pump/skimmer compartment. On my 100 discus display I use a 5 gallon salt bucket that sits on the rim of 29 gallon tank that the over flow flows through filter floss, sponge and lava rock and trickles out holes drilled in the bottom of the bucket to the sump with the heater and return pump in it. So my point is there are many ways to skin the cat. For a reef system I would not recommend running a canister only filter system but I do run canisters combined with wet dry and sump systems as extra filtration. I would also recommend a drilled tank overflow vice the elbow tube; I fought with those years and years ago with trapped air. I know they have newer designs but there is still a box hanging in the tank. If you want to stick with your current tank do some brainstorming and find a container that fits into the cabinet and then "we all" may be able to help design a wet dry sump for you. If you get a new tank start by thinking of the filter system, then where and what skimmer will fit, do you want the heater in the tank or sump?, return pump size, and then finish off thinking about what light system you will want. If you ever have direct questions PM me so I get an email notice. And lastly I will still be going to Al's Party and you are welcome to come by my place before or after the party.

[Debow]

That is a nice tank package and a common tank size that many reefers use. Any tank 24''x24'' you can get away with a single ecotech radion,kessil, aquaillumination prime hd. Also a ATO is a must! saves so much time to not have to top off daily and keeps water salinity stable. Keeping soft corals like leathers, zoas, and other polyps and some lps corals you don't need to dose, just regular water changes with good reef salt will replenish the levels. I'd start with fish only with live rock and run it for some months and try and keep a low nutrient tank and if levels are stable and low add some softies in and go from there. I have a 10g nano that I have in my fish room that I literally do nothing on, just top off with freshwater that looks great, I'll have to post a pic of it.

[Jenene]

That is a nice tank package and a common tank size that many reefers use. Any tank 24''x24'' you can get away with a single ecotech radion,kessil, aquaillumination prime hd. Also a ATO is a must! saves so much time to not have to top off daily and keeps water salinity stable. Keeping soft corals like leathers, zoas, and other polyps and some lps corals you don't need to dose, just regular water changes with good reef salt will replenish the levels. I'd start with fish only with live rock and run it for some months and try and keep a low nutrient tank and if levels are stable and low add some softies in and go from there. I have a 10g nano that I have in my fish room that I literally do nothing on, just top off with freshwater that looks great, I'll have to post a pic of it.

Thanks Devon for the info. I see that most of the good lights really do a good job on a 24" x 24" space. If I keep the tall tank I have it would certainly fit under those specs. The stock you mentioned are just what I am aiming for.
I would love pic of your nano whgen you get a chance. It is crazy to me that you can keep things healthy in such a tiny tank!

[Jenene]

Hey Jenene sorry I haven't been around, the snow has melted so other hobbies and interests start to take over time now. There are many view on all this as you have found, some say biocube is simplest, some say go rimless, so say make a sump, etc etc etc. All are right and correct with their opinions, its simply researching what YOU truly want and then researching everything that goes with it to make it work. On the 75 I just built I used a 29 gallon tank as a sump and used the "glue" in baffles off ebay to make a bioball compartment, sponge compartment, and a return pump/skimmer compartment. On my 100 discus display I use a 5 gallon salt bucket that sits on the rim of 29 gallon tank that the over flow flows through filter floss, sponge and lava rock and trickles out holes drilled in the bottom of the bucket to the sump with the heater and return pump in it. So my point is there are many ways to skin the cat. For a reef system I would not recommend running a canister only filter system but I do run canisters combined with wet dry and sump systems as extra filtration. I would also recommend a drilled tank overflow vice the elbow tube; I fought with those years and years ago with trapped air. I know they have newer designs but there is still a box hanging in the tank. If you want to stick with your current tank do some brainstorming and find a container that fits into the cabinet and then "we all" may be able to help design a wet dry sump for you. If you get a new tank start by thinking of the filter system, then where and what skimmer will fit, do you want the heater in the tank or sump?, return pump size, and then finish off thinking about what light system you will want. If you ever have direct questions PM me so I get an email notice. And lastly I will still be going to Al's Party and you are welcome to come by my place before or after the party.

No worries Dale! You have been so helpful. Really I am just in awe of how great everyone has been here.

I agree with the overflow box. It scares the heck out of me. The one that came with the tank is less than 6 months old and a great brand(Eshopps) but I know they all have their issues.

I did find that a 10 gallon tank just fits if you drop it in (well not drop-drop) through the top of the stand- so I could do a ten gallon sump. I really do like the look of the tank. It just looks elegant even just sitting there with nothing in it. Although if I do keep it I will strip the blue off the back and replace it with black.

You are right I would not want to do a canister. If I did not get an all in one tank I would do a sump. I am surprised you recommend a wet dry for reef. I know they are really great with fresh water but have not seen them used in marine.

I was afraid of all the research in the beginning but now I am finding it kind of fun. It is all starting to make sense now. It is just crazy how many products are out there though. Truly overwhelming. That is where you guys are coming in really handy.

I am still torn between live and dry rock. That is like opening Pandora's Box at the mention of that. I think my mindset is still on how careful we are with discus. I am going to need some strong convincing to go one way or the other. So many opinions on that.

I would love to try to make a visit possible. That is so kind of you. As we get closer to the date I can look at the logistics. That would be really cool to be able to see your tanks first hand. Thank you so much for your help. Seriously, you guys are the best. :o

[Debow]

Jenene, I used bulk reef supply's reef saver rock and I avoided all hitchhikers and aiptasia and I would never get live rock again lol, It has been 8 months and my rock that use to be white is now covered in coraline and all sorts of life and is pest free! It is a relief to know that what ever is in the thak is what you put in there.

[Jenene]

Jenene, I used bulk reef supply's reef saver rock and I avoided all hitchhikers and aiptasia and I would never get live rock again lol, It has been 8 months and my rock that use to be white is now covered in coraline and all sorts of life and is pest free! It is a relief to know that what ever is in the thak is what you put in there.

Thanks so much Devon, I am not in a hurry so I could do that. I watched the BRS video on rock selection. It was very interesting. He seemed to be neutral and then threw in at the end that he knows lots of reefers that started with live rock and just couldn't win the pest battle and ended up tearing everything down and starting over. That is not something I would enjoy. Sounds very frustrating and expensive.

I know people swear by live rock, including my neighborhood reef guy who is very experienced as well as many great people here. That is why it is not an easy decision but hugely important that you make the right one for you.

So this may be a dumb newbie question (one of many I have forming) but where does the coraline and life come from? Does it come in with the fish? Corals? In a bottle? Did you have issues with algae on start up? I saw BRS used a Red Sea starter kit to get the bacteria going and there was a step that helps balance things out to avoid the algae. How did you do it? You make is sound so easy!

[Debow]

Jenene,
I started my 10g nano with beautiful live rock and loved it but, it has lots of aiptasia, and I had a very tiny black claw crab that was eating my green star polyps at night and killing my snails. It took me months to figure out what happened and the only way I found out is when I was feeding my nem the little piece of fish floated away and when under the liver rock and when I tried to grab it it was tugged on and I was like what was that? So I got in there with a flashlight and behold a tiny crab the size of a pea! I had to take the rock out and stab at it to get him out and flushed him! no more issues after that only the aiptasia. And to answer your question about the coraline it comes from a source, there is always spots on coral frags and once it is in the tank it releases spores that travel around the tank and once you get a good spot growing take a brush and give it a scrub every time you clean the tank and in time it will cover. I harvested some off of a power head from the nano, I basically scraped it off and put it into the refugium. And as far as start up I dosed with ammonia and cycled for 2 months. But to recap live rock is great, its interesting to watch and comes pre loaded with life but you never know what you get and if I was going to do a fish only system with live rock then that's my pick but when corals are introduced dry rock is my choice. As for algae you will encounter algae regardless of rock type but as I stated prior keep your nutrient levels low and that will reduce algae growth. I have noticed that I never had any other type of algaw besided green hair algae that is a result of high nutrients but I never got any other type.

[Jenene]

Thanks Devon, you shared a lot of great information here that I had not heard before- even with all the articles I have been reading and vid watching.

Your story about the crab is kind of scary! Playing tug of war in the tank with a tiny unseen monster is kind of a strange scenario. It is amazing how something so small can cause so much mayhem. It is good to hear you won that little war!

I definitely would eventually like a lot of corals. That is my main theme is mostly coral and only a few fish and inverts.

The coraline spread is really interesting as well. I figured it must come in on something. It is really beautiful once it takes hold.

Can I ask why you chose Reef Ready over dry Pukani? Are there any other advantages other than having to clean and cure it? I imagine with the Reef Rock you just put it right in the tank and start the cycle correct?

So lots of interesting things to consider here. Thanks so much. :)

[Debow]

I likes the reef saver rock because of its ability to blend at the seams. It is easy to fit together and is almost like a puzzle. You can order and put a comment in that you want postly softball pieces or what ever size you want and the guys at bulk reef supply will try and cator. When you scape with the reef saver you only need a little epoxy and stick the pieces together, then take a little of the dust/pebbles that are in the bottom of the box and stick it on the epoxy and it makes an invisible seam.

[Jenene]

Does anyone have any good ideas for an in sump skimmer for this tank? I have spent a hours researching them and have it narrowed down to a few. However I really need it to be efficient, quiet and would love the porice to be under $250 since I just paid a ton for a light.

http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/reef-octopus-classic-110sss-5-internal-space-saving-protein-skimmer.html

http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/skimz-sn123-monzter-mini-protein-skimmer.html

The octopus may be a bit of an over kill and the Skimz had a few issues with noise and quality. I was looking at some of the micro ones before but now my tank size is larger and includes the 10 gallon sump. (I was thinking of a nano when I first popped on here)

Any thoughts on your experience with brands or specifics on smaller skimmers would be very helpful. Thanks!

Also- Thanks so much to whichever mod fixed my title it was driving me crazy...

[Debow]

I have a bubble magus curve5 and it is very quiet and works very well. I was going to get the 110sss but found the bubble magus on ebay for $70 and I researched a lot about the skimmer shape and wanted the wine bottle shape and the bubble magus did the deal. It has all the features I wanted. Take a look on ebay I bought almost all of my equipment of there and saved bundles. Here's the link http://www.marinedepot.com/Bubble_Magus_Curve_5_In_Sump_Needle_Wheel_Protein_ Skimmer_w_Bubble_Plate_In_Sump_Protein_Skimmers_fo r_Aquariums_Reefs-Bubble_Magus-4W05001-FIPSIS-vi.html

[Jenene]

I have a bubble magus curve5 and it is very quiet and works very well. I was going to get the 110sss but found the bubble magus on ebay for $70 and I researched a lot about the skimmer shape and wanted the wine bottle shape and the bubble magus did the deal. It has all the features I wanted. Take a look on ebay I bought almost all of my equipment of there and saved bundles. Here's the link http://www.marinedepot.com/Bubble_Magus_Curve_5_In_Sump_Needle_Wheel_Protein_ Skimmer_w_Bubble_Plate_In_Sump_Protein_Skimmers_fo r_Aquariums_Reefs-Bubble_Magus-4W05001-FIPSIS-vi.html

Thanks Devon, that one does look good. It is funny because when I ordered my light from BRS there was an issue with the shipping address and I had to call them. They asked what I was setting up and told them what I was up to. They suggested the Tunze (not sure which model but the box, for nano) I was really surprised. I don't think that one would be big enough for the 30 gallon and the water in the sump. The tank actually came with a Hydor that is very similar. I thought I would wait and build the sump to see where the water line actually falls and try the one I have. I know I will end up going bigger like the one you have though. Unfortunately it is not any deal on Ebay or anywhere else right now but it is within $20 of the other one I had found. I am certain the other one will not work in the sump the way I want it to. So thank you for the heads up. I would go with your model before venturing out into the random reviewed one.