Hello Everyone! Excited Newbie to Discus Here!

[Bizarro252]

Hello!
I have some general questions as I am 99% sure I am picking up a used 55gal tank and stand this evening to get started into something I have wanted to for a long time - Discus!

To start I will answer this awesome questionnaire you guys have - I have never seen so many stickies on a forum! Haha!


1) Please Introduce your self and tell us what your experience is with fishkeeping, give us as much information as possible as to how long in the hobby, what you have kept in the past and what you currently are working with.
My name is Matt, I used to keep a basic tropical community tank when I was younger but knew only basics, I got back into the hobby about 2 years ago again with a tropical community. I eventually got a pair of angelfish and realized there were such things as fish with personality! I quickly dove in to find something else along these lines and wound up on Mbuna. I have been keeping and breeding Mbuna for 2 years now in a 75gal. I am fairly versed in the Nitrogen cycle and understand why we do what we do, why water changes are important, etc. I do my best to keep my fish as healthy and happy as possible and they reward me for it!

2) If you have no previous experience with keeping discus, have you done any research to properly prepare yourself, e.g. have you read any Stickies in this section of SimplyDiscus, or other material?
I have no experience keeping Discus, but have done research and think I have a grasp on what is needed to be successful, at this point I want to get the setup nailed down so I dont make the same mistakes I did with my Mbuna, where I bought smaller filters, etc and upgraded later :)

3) Describe your tank, its size and dimensions, breeding or display. Include how long it has been setup or if it is still being cycled.
The Discus tank will be a standard 48inch wide 55gal, not set up yet. I will cycle fishless with a combination of seeded media from a healthy Mbuna filter (Fluval FX4), Seachem Stability, and ammonia dosing until I am satisfied it is cycled and can keep up with a load.

4) Describe the décor for the tank; type of substrate or bare bottom (BB), whether the tank will be planted or a biotope.
Bare bottom, no deco until they are at least 4-5", then sand substrate with limited decorations such as driftwood and small amount of live plants in pots to ease cleaning.

5) Describe your water changes planned or practiced, percentage and how often. Include if you age your water and use of tap/RO or mix.
Currently preforming:
1-2x a week 50% changes on Mbuna 75gal
2-3x a week 75% change on 20gal long with a breeding pair of angels
1x a week 50-60% on 40gal community
2x a week 75% on a 5 gal beta (filtered and heated)

I plan to commit to a MINIMUM of 75% every other day on the discus, while they are growing, hope to reduce this to 50% 2x a week once adults. Thats at least what I will be doing with a goal of 75% + every day while growing out

6) Describe the type of filtration planned/used for the tank; sponge, HOB and/or sump. Also include the other equipment you are, or will be, using in your tank, e.g. heater, lighting, etc.
Trying to decide here, I know a sponge filter will be included, but debating between 2x HOB style like a AC110, a single Fluval FX4, or a combo of a HOB and a Fluval 406 - very open to suggestions here. Planning on no chemical, MAYBE some purigen at least until I am not doing daily water changes as they seems like a waste. Decent mechanical, enough to keep the bio clean, and as much biohome ultimate as I can fit.

7) If the tank is already setup and running, include the water parameters;

It is not, but the planned parameters, and my tap water parameters are listed instead:

- temp 83-85F, not sure yet what is ideal for growth

- tank ph , tap PH 7.4, after aging it settles to ~8.0

- municipal water yes


8) Describe your current or planned stocking levels; number/size of discus and number/type of dither fish. Where did you get your discus from or do you have a proposed source for getting your discus?
Planning on 6x 2.5" from Discus Hans, we have no reputable local supply. These will remain in their through adulthood with no current plans to upgrade size or add additional fish. Once I have substrate and they are adults or getting close I may add some cory cats for a cleanup crew, I like BN plecos as well, but sounds like they can attach themselves to discus....

9) Describe your planned or existing feeding regimen. Include what and how often you are feeding on a daily basis.
Unsure, I know I will be feeding a mix of flake, pellet and frozen.

10) What are your goals in this hobby? For example are you looking to keep discus in a planted community tank, or do you hope to become a hobby breeder of Discus? Do you want to raise Discus with the hopes of competing in shows?
Long term is just to keep them all together, I know likely at least one pair will form, I am hoping that aggression will be OK if so with the others. I plan on having only one of 6 different types so not sure if it would even be responsible to sell off any of their babies...


General Questions from me:
- See filter question in above, still not set on a setup. Really a fan of canisters but it seems like at least at first the filters will need cleaning often, and a HOB is just easier here...However I could just put a sponge over the intake and rinse that daily. This should keep Nitrates under control but would LOVE to hear some thoughts on the best types of setups/combos.

- Water, PH is a bit high at 8+ after aging from tap. I hope to not have to mix in RO/DI water as especially early on with daily changes this would be a little cumbersome. I plan on acclimating the discus when they arrive to the tank water via a drip method over the course of several hours with an airstone in with them in a bin/bucket to keep their water aireated through the long acclimation.

- Aging water, seems like this will be required since I do notice a change in PH, assuming at least for large changes I will have to forgo the python for a bin and a pump? :)

- Size of aquarium and stocking level - Hans recommends 10 min, I do not have interest in keeping 10, I do not have room for a tank large enough for 10 :) 6 in a 55 seems to be successful in many of your members setups. I do not want to proceed with this if I will end up with unhappy, stressed fish that just want to hide all the time - thoughts on this?

- Decorations in the BB tank while growing out - needed? Will they feel secure without them?

- Painting the back and bottom of the tank - I painted the back of my Mbuna tank black and LOVE it, however I have read that discuss can darken if you do this... should I just leave it clear (it will be up near a white wall), paint it a lighter color? Not sure what color wouldnt look stupid :D


I think thats it for now - Excited to hear your thoughts and to join this community!

Thanks!

[gluedandscrewed]

sounds like you are all there, lot more so than I, and if i can do it, anybody can,,,,all you have to do now is jump in the water, it's really nice and warm!!!:D

[discuspaul]

Welcome to Simply Discus - you seem to have done the necessary homework, and are prepared for the challenge.

As to filtration, I think you will find HOB's to be a better option for ease of keeping a relatively clean set-up. 2 AC 110's may give off a stronger current/water flow than the discus care for, so you might plan on just one 110, which should be sufficient in a 55 gal, but you could add a small sponge filter as well.

Starting off with 6 good quality young discus is just fine, and there should be no reason why they don't get comfortable in your set-up given a little time - suggest you do large daily wcs for at least the first few months until the discus achieve a 3.5"-4" size. Decorations should not be needed.
And yes, a pre-filter sponge on the filter intake, rinsed daily, is a good idea to maintain good tank cleanliness.

Don't concern yourself with a pH of 8.0, so long as it remains relatively stable with overnite ageing. RO water should not be needed.
Nothing wrong with painting the underside and back of the tank with a lighter neutral color, or even a medium shade of your liking.

Careful with how many tank-mates you add when the discus reach an adult or near adult size. A 55 gal is not very large, and you don't want to push the bio-load levels very far.
Temp of 82-83 F will be just fine.
For foods, do try the freeze-dried blackworms available here from owner Al Sabetta.see Sponsors area.

Hope this helps.
Best of luck to you,

[Bizarro252]

Welcome to Simply Discus - you seem to have done the necessary homework, and are prepared for the challenge.

Sweet! First post gets the attn of discuspaul, I have seen you all over the place :) And thank you, I know the 'delicateness' of these fish is over hyped but I want to be able to do the best I can from the start, especially starting with small fish. I am busy reading your starter guide from the stickies at the moment haha.

Thanks for the reply, is it 'common' to stick with HOB for discus? Or at least while they are growing? I do love my canisters but if I have to crack them open every few days my love for them will probably quickly fade :)
I re-did my order to get an feeling of the price if I moved from 2.5" to 3" and its only 85 dollars difference, so I will probably move forward with that, once I get my tank ready of course.

I work full time and the max I personally could feed during the week is morning, when I get home, and late evening. Should I consider a auto feeder to get some flake/pellets in there during the day? Sounds like 4-5 times a day would be the best feeding for 3" fish. Follow up to that, what size should you step down to less feedings?
Thanks for pointing me to a good source for blackworms as well.

Thanks!!

[discuspaul]

Matt, it's smart to start out with 3" fish rather than 2.5" size if your wallet permits - even better if you can kick it up a notch to 3.5" or more - really lessens the risk of any complications if a good cleansing routine gets somewhat neglected at times.
The more their immune systems are further developed as growth occurs, the better.

Discus of 3" or more should have no problem growing out well on 3 feedings a day, but you might want to try an automatic feeder if you wish. Once the discus reach near adult size, of say 4.5" or larger, it's not uncommon to limit feedings to once or twice daily.
It may not be all that common to use HOB filtration, but many discus-keepers do (I'm one), or use sponge filtration, which seems to be most common.

In my view, canisters are the least desirable for keeping discus, because I believe it may cause some users to lessen the media cleansing/changing routine, or even neglect this duty for lengthy periods, due to it being found inconvenient & time-consuming to some users.

[Bizarro252]

Agree, that was my main concern. I already (according to most of what I read anyways) 'overclean' my FX4 on my Mbuna tank at a once a month cleaning HA! HOB will just be so much easier to give a quick clean of the larger stuff every few days even.

I have a seeded sponge in my Mbuna tank in parallel with the FX4, I think I will give this tank a kick start by moving that over, adding a second, and putting that AC50 on there with seeded media. It should cycle pretty fast with that... My plan was to order fish once my tank can convert 1-2ppm ammonia that I will manually dose in 24 hours, does this sound appropriate?

Thanks

[discuspaul]

Agree, that was my main concern. I already (according to most of what I read anyways) 'overclean' my FX4 on my Mbuna tank at a once a month cleaning HA! HOB will just be so much easier to give a quick clean of the larger stuff every few days even.

I have a seeded sponge in my Mbuna tank in parallel with the FX4, I think I will give this tank a kick start by moving that over, adding a second, and putting that AC50 on there with seeded media. It should cycle pretty fast with that... My plan was to order fish once my tank can convert 1-2ppm ammonia that I will manually dose in 24 hours, does this sound appropriate?

Thanks

Sure.

[Jenene]

Agree, that was my main concern. I already (according to most of what I read anyways) 'overclean' my FX4 on my Mbuna tank at a once a month cleaning HA! HOB will just be so much easier to give a quick clean of the larger stuff every few days even.

I have a seeded sponge in my Mbuna tank in parallel with the FX4, I think I will give this tank a kick start by moving that over, adding a second, and putting that AC50 on there with seeded media. It should cycle pretty fast with that... My plan was to order fish once my tank can convert 1-2ppm ammonia that I will manually dose in 24 hours, does this sound appropriate?

Thanks

Welcome to the forum Matt, you have certainly come to the right place and discuspaul is right you have done your research.

If it makes you feel any better, my fish have thrived at an 8.0 ph.

You have a solid start with the information from discuspaul- there is only one thing that caught my eye though- discuspaul, are you not concerned about a seeded sponge from another tank? You are the expert here but I had always read that a fishless cycle was much safer to avoid introducing new pathogens to the new discus. Just interested in your take on it.

Good luck Matt and keep us posted on your progress. Why not start a tank journal. I wish I had. It is fun to watch them grow and to document the changes you make on the way.

[Kyla]

fishless cycle is always the safest route, although ill admit i took the short cut and risked contamination using seeded sponges with my tank :/

i use an eheim auto feeder filled with loose freeze dried black worms and the fish love it. i really like knowing they get snacks while i'm at work.

[discuspaul]

Welcome to the forum Matt, you have certainly come to the right place and discuspaul is right you have done your research.

If it makes you feel any better, my fish have thrived at an 8.0 ph.

You have a solid start with the information from discuspaul- there is only one thing that caught my eye though- discuspaul, are you not concerned about a seeded sponge from another tank? You are the expert here but I had always read that a fishless cycle was much safer to avoid introducing new pathogens to the new discus. Just interested in your take on it.

Good luck Matt and keep us posted on your progress. Why not start a tank journal. I wish I had. It is fun to watch them grow and to document the changes you make on the way.

You're absolutely correct, Jenene - the safest approach is always to go with a complete fishless cycle.

While there are obvious risks to using seeded media from another source, particularly any unknown source, the OP intends to use the seeded media from his own long-term Mbuna tank of presumably healthy fish, so the risk may be considered small.
To the best of my recollection, in many cases I have known of discus-keepers using seeded media from their other healthy tanks, I have not run across a failure by way of serious cross-contamination.

Doesn't mean it can't happen, but the risks seem relatively low, given the discus are from Hans - as they will be of a reasonably well-developed size and of sufficient good health to withstand exposure to minor harmful elements, if there are any.

[Jenene]

You're absolutely correct, Jenene - the safest approach is always to go with a complete fishless cycle.

While there are obvious risks to using seeded media from another source, particularly any unknown source, the OP intends to use the seeded media from his own long-term Mbuna tank of presumably healthy fish, so the risk may be considered small.
To the best of my recollection, in many cases I have known of discus-keepers using seeded media from their other healthy tanks, I have not run across a failure by way of serious cross-contamination.

Doesn't mean it can't happen, but the risks seem relatively low, given the discus are from Hans - as they will be of a reasonably well-developed size and of sufficient good health to withstand exposure to minor harmful elements, if there are any.

Thanks for that discupaul, that makes a lot of sense.

Personally when it comes to my discus I have never been a risk taker so I went with the safer route. Love your explanation- very well said. Thank you.:o

[Kyla]

You're absolutely correct, Jenene - the safest approach is always to go with a complete fishless cycle.

While there are obvious risks to using seeded media from another source, particularly any unknown source, the OP intends to use the seeded media from his own long-term Mbuna tank of presumably healthy fish, so the risk may be considered small.
To the best of my recollection, in many cases I have known of discus-keepers using seeded media from their other healthy tanks, I have not run across a failure by way of serious cross-contamination.

Doesn't mean it can't happen, but the risks seem relatively low, given the discus are from Hans - as they will be of a reasonably well-developed size and of sufficient good health to withstand exposure to minor harmful elements, if there are any.

this was my experience, the sponges were from my own adjacent healthy tank (would never use someone else's sponges!) i had no issues, but there is a risk. some friends of mine have actually ordered seeded sponges along with the discus from the suppliers. they had good experiences with this route (although i dont know if hans offers sponges).

[Bizarro252]

Thank you all, I had that thought as well, but I have only lost one fish in that Mbuna tank in the 2 years its been up and that was my fault (added one that was to small and he was harrased, and that was months ago). So in this case I think it will be OK. I was so paranoid however that I was not sure if I should be wary of using anything from my 20gallon which had fry in it (from my own Mbuna) and now has a angel pair in it to breed (which are healthy and have been with me for 2.5 years). I read all this crap about discus/angel plauge, and even though I dont think my angels have it, its still in the back of my mind... If I ever added an angel to my discus tank though it would be one of their kids :P

I ended up adding the sponge and a handful of seeded media, along with new media to the AC50 I have (I was wrong, I have a AC50 not 110, so thats good as paul was thinking the 110 may be to strong of current....) After spending ALL DAY hunting down ammonia with nothing else in it I found some (Ace Hardware, 10% strength) and dosed 2.2ml to get me to 1ppm concentration. Also dosed with Seachem stability. If that is gone tomorrow I think I will order Fish Monday, if not I will keep dosing until the tank can rid itself of that in 24 hours. I will watch nitrites tomorrow too, if those stay elevated I will delay my order until I have things under control.

I ordered two more #4 size sponges as well, will get those in there when they arrive :)

Here is how we are looking so far, temp is set to 83 for now. And yes its becoming a bit crowded in that room haha. Will attach a pic of my Mbuna tank too :D


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109017

[discuspaul]

Tank looking real good, Matt !
I'm sure you'll do just fine with Hans' discus - & looking forward to seeing pics when you get them !
Love your Mbuna tank.

[Jenene]

Gorgeous Tank! Can't wait to see the discus! Nicely done!

[Bizarro252]

Thanks :D Looking forward to it! Ammonia stayed the same after about 5 hours, I couldn't help myself I had to retest lol...not sure why I expected any different :P

EDIT:
I have changed some of the plans here, plus one more question (adding some details about my water supply)

I have decided to step up a size from 2.5" to 3", price difference is not that bad and it will make me feel less anxious about stunting them, etc :P
I got a digital PH meter, just a cheapo one, but it has what appears to be a nice sensor on it (replaceable, will link it below). I calibrated it and got, what I think at least, are more accurate numbers on my PH, fresh and aged.
TAP: 7.8
Aged: 8.3

Other details about my water from the tap:
Nitrate 5
KH 10
GH 8

Given that I have a 0.5 PH jump from aging I assume for large water changes it will be necessary to age it - at least for an hour or so - I have read that any more than 0.3 movement means you should age. Thoughts on that?

PH meter:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00MG7LUZY/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Thanks!

[discuspaul]

Suggest you do the test once or twice more to confirm the pH differential between tap & ageing remains around the .5 level.
What's the pH in your tank ?. Is it around the 8.0 level ?

You should be ok without ageing with just a .5 difference, assuming that your wcs are in the area of say 50% or so, or even larger. The blend of the two (tank & tap) will not occasion more than a minor differential.

[Bizarro252]

Thanks Paul, I will check again. I tested my other tanks that I do not add any buffers to and they all came to 8.4 as well - the API high range test is slightly hard to read accuratly because its basically "hrmm how much purple is in this..." :) but it seems to match up in that range at least.

My Cichlid tank I do add just a bit of KH/GH too with Seachem Malawi buffer and Cichlid salt (1/2tsp of the first, 1/4tsp of the second per 10gal) and that tank sits at 8.7. I actually used to dose double those numbers and am slowly backing off as after I tested my tap many time for PH, KH and GH its basically perfect for cichlids anyways so I am trying to dose less or go to none at all.

I do NOT plan on dosing anything to the Discus tank, just to get that out there, IMO lowering PH with chemicals is asking for trouble if you are starting with hard tap water like I am, I would likely see a drop and then a slow rise back to where it was with the amount of KH I have :)

[Bizarro252]

Added two more sponge filters (Hydor IV Pros) and dumped in a bottle of Tim's Bacteria I overnighted because I am crazy :P
Ammonia is now dropping from 1ppm to 0.25 in about 10 hours (vs 30 on day 1). I keep dosing daily, Nitrite has remained at 0, never seen it jump (weird, but maybe I brought over more of those bacteria in the media...), Nitrate up at 80ppm last night (5-10 at tap) - so its cycled, just keep dosing to grow the colony and get it ready for the load :)

Discus are ORDERED, they will arrive Friday and I have taken the day off of work - going to be a great weekend.

Last thing is to convince myself that 90+% of you are right and I should just temp acclimate and plop and drop these guys in (PH is 8.3 is why I am concerned) but the more I read and look around the more people I find having success, still have not come across anyone that had terrible results, even with 8+ PH.

I have foods in already to get them going, waiting on some worms and worm/beef heart chow from California Blackworm Co. - going to fast them at least until the following morning after they arrive, that seems to be a pretty standard suggestion.

Here is what I got - pictures incoming Saturday when I will actually turn the lights back on :)
(one each)

Checkerboard Discus 3"
Leopard SnakeSkin 3"
Red Scribbelt Discus Fish 3+ Inch
Marlboro Red Discus Fish 3+ Inch
Brillant Turquoise Discus Fish 3+ inch
Cobalt Discus Fish 3+ Inch

[Kyla]

i now use the drop and plop method, my ph is over 8, never any issues. make sure u float the bags so they r same temp as ur tank first.

[Bizarro252]

i now use the drop and plop method, my ph is over 8, never any issues. make sure u float the bags so they r same temp as ur tank first.

So we are up to 92.8% now :P haha thanks