Al, you may not like this (New camera product)

[Discus-n00b]

https://news.developer.nvidia.com/smart-device-brings-ai-control-to-your-camera/

Here is the Kickstarter to read more https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2092430307/arsenal-the-intelligent-camera-assistant-0/description

It further distances the photographer from the classic art of photography, but it is interesting to say the least. This is from a company called Arsenal, but uses NVIDIA AI and deeplearning. I'm a huge fan on NVIDIA as a company, a stockholder, and user of their computer products for years now and love the stuff they put out. So this, despite it's AI vs Human shifting focus, makes me kind of excited. I would love to put this to the test vs my own eyes and brain. The convenience alone could make it worthwhile for me.

What it's doing is not anything new, all of the options this gives have been there for years and are able to be executed by the photographer, this just does it through a computer's brain and cutting the time immensely. Just the other day I was talking about focus stacking, this could be such a simpler tool than a focus rail that is prone to human error or missing a click.

I don't know, figured I'd share. This really excites me. It can act as a monitor, remote shutter, an intervalometer (which is capable of day to night timelapses which are considered holy grails), a brain, and a sharing device all in one. It's a single package hot shoe mount and App that replaces 4-5 or maybe more separate devices you would use otherwise.

If it works well or not is the question and will be the determining factor in the end. That really can't be answered yet. Figured I'd share!
Quick someone resuscitate Al! :evilgrin:

[brewmaster15]

Jeez...whats next! One more nail in the hobby's coffin! :) One step closer to "Wall-E"!!!!!!!!:ime:

[Discus-n00b]

Next will be the robot that you send out. "I want a photo at sunset of X place" Robot goes and takes the photo then you post it to Instagram lol.

I knew you'd be thrilled about it Al!

[brewmaster15]

Lol... I think I need to switch to painting as a hobby.:(

[Debow]

The advancements in tech are amazing but I have to agree as someone starting the hobby of photography I like to learn how to manually compose a shot vs a device do it for me. What is the point of taking shots that required no skills?

[Debow]

Lol... I think I need to switch to painting as a hobby.:(

But wait! Someone will come along and make a CNC paint brush that does the work for you.

[brewmaster15]

But wait! Someone will come along and make a CNC paint brush that does the work for you.


lol...probably and it would probably paint better than me!

al

[Discus-n00b]

Devon I think that is important to learn the processes first. After knowing what is happening or how to do something, this comes in handy as a time saver. I think the disconnect comes if you would leave it permanently attached to the camera and use it every time you shoot instead of certain situations where it could help you.

[brewmaster15]

Devon I think that is important to learn the processes first. After knowing what is happening or how to do something, this comes in handy as a time saver. I think the disconnect comes if you would leave it permanently attached to the camera and use it every time you shoot instead of certain situations where it could help you.

It does raise a question though Matt, hypothetical one of course. A little off topic here, but could be an interesting discussion.

Lets say theres a hypothetical photo contest... At what point does tech advantage by some people affect the fairness and judging of the competition?:devil:

al

[Discus-n00b]

That's true, however I think the tech is just allowing a wider range of people to take advantage. A pro, or someone who knows the techniques can still create anything this device can create, the device just does it in less steps and faster. So I'm not sure there is THAT big of an advantage in the complete end game (photo competition). Now if the competition puts limits on post processing and stuff like that the tech will win because you could basically say this is straight out of camera, and the EXIF will likely show that vs someone having to stack photos together in post and adjust this and that. And that is where the device will be more efficient, spitting me out a single file instead of me having to do the process. Or if it was a competition that had the setup of your Game Time (http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?128571-Game-Time) thread where you HAD to shoot something the day of posting I think the device would beat the brain, just a simple matter of hours involved. It's almost the same argument that was had when post processing became the norm. At what point is it an advantage? Then everyone started doing it and now if you don't do it to some degree you are the anomaly. We are already at the point where the cameras do a lot of work, only a matter of time before the same deep learning of this thing is in the chips of the cameras and built in themselves. It's the same AI tech going into supercomputing, phones, and smart cars, only a matter of time before it hits cameras. I think we just have to sell the market, the current market is tech so like it or not it's coming lol I'm of the opinion we might as well get on board. I'm also one of those people who will be in line to get the computer chip contact lens or have a chip under my skin though. There will always be some corner or market for the stuff without tech, I mean you can still shoot and develop film.

I don't know that I'll like this, because I find working an image in post almost cathartic in a way. I like sitting down and working an image, it's enjoyable. So if this takes it away completely then I don't know that I'll like it or use it often. But I do want to try it as I could see many benefits to having it in the camera bag that would save me time and headaches.

[Larry Bugg]

I've always wanted to take really good photos but have never been willing to take the time to learn how to do it. This would definitely be for someone like me. I like it. I do see and understand Al's point but.....................

[brewmaster15]

Im also one of those people who will be in line to get the computer chip contact lens or have a chip under my skin thoughlol... we differ here immensely! hell would freeze over before I have a chip put under my skin. Its bad enough you can't use the phone or email without it being archived, or walk down the street without a remote camera watching you.. I'm too much of a "privacy, get big brother out of my face, life and business" guy to give someone that kind potential invasion of privacy.... no thanks , no way....that stuff makes me cringe.



I'm obviously not anti-tech.. but I am very anti Artificial Intelligence. I also just really find pleasure in doing things myself.. I want to know how to do something, How it works. How I can manipulate it, change it, improve it or understand it. I can buy a picture or learn to make a picture. I can buy a beer or learn to brew it myself. I can buy a back up solar generator or learn to make one. Buy an aquarium LED or make one...Buy a new generator or take apart an old broken one and fix it. Buy bread or learn how to make my own. Buy veggies or learn how to grow them. Buy a PC stock with a Windows OS or learn Linux. These things I do give me great pleasure..force me to think and problem solve. Force me to read and learn. To learn how a thing works...apply it myself. DIY makes life interesting. Theres always an easy way to do something and get it done faster... but for me the fun isn't the endpoint. Its the Journey. Especially if its a hobby! Technology that shortens the trip or makes it pointless just makes me want to do something else.


Yep.. I am an anomaly:evilgrin: and happily so.

al

[Discus-n00b]

lol... we differ here immensely! hell would freeze over before I have a chip put under my skin. Its bad enough you can't use the phone or email without it being archived, or walk down the street without a remote camera watching you.. I'm too much of a "privacy, get big brother out of my face, life and business" guy to give someone that kind potential invasion of privacy.... no thanks , no way....that stuff makes me cringe.



I'm obviously not anti-tech.. but I am very anti Artificial Intelligence. I also just really find pleasure in doing things myself.. I want to know how to do something, How it works. How I can manipulate it, change it, improve it or understand it. I can buy a picture or learn to make a picture. I can buy a beer or learn to brew it myself. I can buy a back up solar generator or learn to make one. Buy an aquarium LED or make one...Buy a new generator or take apart an old broken one and fix it. Buy bread or learn how to make my own. Buy veggies or learn how to grow them. Buy a PC stock with a Windows OS or learn Linux. These things I do give me great pleasure..force me to think and problem solve. Force me to read and learn. To learn how a thing works...apply it myself. DIY makes life interesting. Theres always an easy way to do something and get it done faster... but for me the fun isn't the endpoint. Its the Journey. Especially if its a hobby! Technology that shortens the trip or makes it pointless just makes me want to do something else.


Yep.. I am an anomaly:evilgrin: and happily so.

al

LOL I know Al you'd be running the other way. I guess I've already decided they are listening anyway with cell phones and social media, if you want to waste hours of your day listening in on my law abiding and otherwise boring life then be my guest. I just want the tech that can make me run faster, jump higher, think faster, live longer, and maybe shoot lasers from my eyes. I want the chip to act as my wallet, passport, my car keys, and my cell phone.


I'm obviously not anti-tech.. but I am very anti Artificial Intelligence. I also just really find pleasure in doing things myself.. I want to know how to do something, How it works. How I can manipulate it, change it, improve it or understand it. I can buy a picture or learn to make a picture. I can buy a beer or learn to brew it myself. I can buy a back up solar generator or learn to make one. Buy an aquarium LED or make one...Buy a new generator or take apart an old broken one and fix it. Buy bread or learn how to make my own. Buy veggies or learn how to grow them. Buy a PC stock with a Windows OS or learn Linux. These things I do give me great pleasure..force me to think and problem solve. Force me to read and learn. To learn how a thing works...apply it myself. DIY makes life interesting. Theres always an easy way to do something and get it done faster... but for me the fun isn't the endpoint. Its the Journey. Especially if its a hobby! Technology that shortens the trip or makes it pointless just makes me want to do something else.

I think AI will have a limit. I like the AI that can help and assist the human race, I don't want the AI that replaces the human race completely obviously. The AI in your fridge that can order food for you when it senses you are low, or the one that will project information and data onto your bathroom mirror in the morning (weather, social media feeds, news), etc. I still enjoy doing things myself and teaching myself things like you do, but if AI can assist me with tasks I am all for it. What if the AI can help your learning how to make better bread, or grow better produce? Think Jarvis in Iron Man. Tony Stark had the brains and the mind, Jarvis just helped compute better processes.

[brewmaster15]

lol...:) yeah but if Ai lets you keep your discus better I'll have to close the forum!:)



LOL I know Al you'd be running the other way. I guess I've already decided they are listening anyway with cell phones and social media, if you want to waste hours of your day listening in on my law abiding and otherwise boring life then be my guest. I just want the tech that can make me run faster, jump higher, think faster, live longer, and maybe shoot lasers from my eyes. I want the chip to act as my wallet, passport, my car keys, and my cell phone.
Just remember, its not only that big brother has access to this stuff... its any one that hacks Big brother. As long as that data exists, its a liability to your privacy and identity.


see I told you itd be an interesting discussion albeit off topic tangent!

al

[Discus-n00b]

Logging onto anything on the internet could potentially put you at the same risk lol, I've been at risk for years. I guess I'm desensitized to it now for better or for worse.

[brewmaster15]

Logging onto anything on the internet could potentially put you at the same risk lol, I've been at risk for years. I guess I'm desensitized to it now for better or for worse.

I actually think that being desensitized is exactly one of the reasons why people tolerate it when before the internet it would not have been tolerated. It also has a lot to do with age,not entirely but to a large degree, Those that grew up with tech are just so used to... I grew up when a computer was a word processor at best. Seriously I dread what my kids will think is acceptable as far loss of privacy. The sad thing is big brother and big corporations have every one convinced that is inevitable and we just need to take it as a necessary evil of living in todays tech world. Frankly, thatz BS. Its not inevitable or a necessary aspect... Its one that we let exist. Data is Data. It doesn't need to be collected and stored for services to be rendered. Telecom doesn't need to keep your records for years. The NSA doesn't need to do half of what it says it does and a fraction of what it doesn't say it does , but does. Websites don't need to track you. Big Businesses like Google, verizon, comcast and facebook and scores of others shouldn't be able to use your data without your express permission. Its really about money and control. Data gives big brother control and big business money. Period.


Theres so many things that we have just let happen either from fear, being desensitized, or not caring enough or seeing why it matters so much. And with every little loss or accepted change in whats acceptable as a loss our personal freedoms and rights slip away and once gone...they don't come back. Its not so much a slippery slope as mudslide. It worries me how much has changed just in my short lifetime...and not for the better with regards to civil liberties and privacy.


Alrighty then, I ranted enough.:) Just something I think about alot, especially on a weekend like this where we are remembering the soldiers that fought and died to give us these rights and protect them.

Apologies for going slightly further off topic.
al

[Discus-n00b]

No worries Al, it's all relateable!

It even goes smaller than that, simple browsing certain products or webpages tailors banner ads for you. At Disney, they give you those little smart wrist bands now. If you attach your credit card to them like so many unwittingly do, after you purchase a coke in the park at the next ride or through the day you will see coke ads on screens around you while waiting in line. Because they know you bought that coke, and have your gps location in the park they can tailor the "experience" for you. It can get quite scary. I'm just speaking on the very basic information being out there online, I have a footprint, it's the price of making online orders for anything. I do draw the line at more intrusive privacy breeches. I was mostly joking about them listening in to my life, I do think they'd be wasting their time but I would have an issue with it. I think some people can get a bit to conspiracy theory about it though, like when everyone was freaking out about facebook app having access to their camera, well duh clearly it needs access for you to post photos from your camera reel. I don't think companies are tracking you on a micro level which is why I don't have much of an issue with that. The NSA on the other hand I would have a problem with.

At any rate, I ended up backing the campaign. I really want to try this out. I'll be sure to give a full review once it arrives early next year lol.

[Fundulopanchax]

What a spectacular tool! The photographer's job is to compose. With an excellent image the photographer will be better able to adjust in photoshop or similar. I remember the days when photographers were jumping off bridges in response to digital. Nowadays no photographer would use film even if it was readily available. What a pathetic medium that was! I just joined kickstarter for it. Can't wait.

[brewmaster15]

What a spectacular tool! The photographer's job is to compose. With an excellent image the photographer will be better able to adjust in photoshop or similar. I remember the days when photographers were jumping off bridges in response to digital. Nowadays no photographer would use film even if it was readily available. What a pathetic medium that was! I just joined kickstarter for it. Can't wait.

Ron,
I have to disagree with you. Just because digital made it easier does not mean film was a Pathetic Medium.. decades and decades of absolutely stunning images were captured with film. Beautiful images by photographers that had to work hard yes..but the results were no less than digital..if anything they were more...deeper..more rich in tones. And as for film not being used anymore by photographers thats not true.There still are photographers making extraordinary images with film. I still love my film gear and every camera forum or club out there has photographers that use both or just use film besides your dslr users . Digital is easier no doubt... and fits with our "hand everything to us on a silver plater and be quick about it" lifestyles... but honestly I didnt learn a thing about photography with digital. I learned it with film. That pathetic medium is why I love photography .

Al

[brewmaster15]

Have a read here..

http://time.com/4646116/film-photography-inspiration/

http://time.com/4649188/film-photography-industry-comeback/

http://istillshootfilm.org/post/110901745797/10-professional-photographers-who-still-shoot-film


http://theatlasmagazine.com/photographers-still-shooting-film/

https://petapixel.com/2016/08/19/film-photography-making-stunning-comeback/

https://www.businessoffashion.com/articles/intelligence/fashion-film-photographers-hawkesworth-weir-dodgson-ghertner

http://www.streetshootr.com/10-reasons-i-switched-from-digital-to-film-photography/

.... I could go on and on. And the list is growing.

AL

[SMB2]

Well now I can sit in the car when it's raining and shoot...

[Discus-n00b]

There ya go Stan thats the spirit! LOL

Update to this, they have raised right at $700k for this of a $50k goal with 20 days left to go. 1391% funded project, that's insane. He's now stretched the goal to $1mil and has added video remote and video playback functions to it.