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View Full Version : Summer Time here in the States, Prepared?



brewmaster15
06-29-2017, 11:28 AM
Hi all,
Summer is here in the USA and with it that means tropical storms! Too often we read about someone with a power outage due to a storm or some other issues. These storms can happen any time of the year but summer time is particularly bad. We spend a small fortune on our Fish, tanks, equipment etc. but we often skimp on things to protect those investments. Unfortunately until you are faced with no power and dying fish you often just do not realize how quickly things go from great to bad in your fish tanks. There are few things in the hobby more depressing than losing a tank of your prized Discus because you were unprepared for power outages. What makes it even sadder is that these things are very easy to prepare for.

You first have to add up the tanks power consumption to figure out how much power you will need. Once you know that you need to figure out how to get that power. For most people the easiest solution is a portable generator. A great thing to have anyway to keep the refrigerator and other necessities running, so thats one more reason besides your fish to get one. Generators are pretty readily available at any many retail stores (home depot, lowes, walmart.etc) and online at places like Amazon and Ebay. They vary in size from small 800 watt units to 10,000+ watts. You should avoid the small 800-1200 watt units. These are often very cheaply made 2 cycle engines and the carburetors gum up easy making them a pain to start. You also probably don't need one thats 6000-7000+ watts unless you are using a transfer switch to power your whole house. Its overkill if you are planning on running extension cords to the refrigerator and fish tanks. 2000 -5000 watts is probably good for most casual usage. These "construction, general purpose portable type generators" are perfect for your general needs and your fish tank's emergency power supply. They produce a modified Sine wave which is compatible with most things but unfortunately not all. They can also be a little loud though. They run on various fuels and some run on multiple fuels (diesel, gas, propane, or natural gas in some cases). There are a lot of pros and cons to each fuel and you should consider what you have most readily available.

One thing to note is that these construction generators don't always work well with sensitive equipment like flat screen TVs and computers. For these a better option is an Inverter Generator. These create a pure sine wave unlike the modified sine wave made by "construction, general purpose portable type generators. Because of this pure sine wave these can be used for all your needs, including tanks but are pricey and run small. Honda and Yamaha are top names for inverter generators, and carry a corresponding high price. Ryobi makes a very good one and costs half as much. I use this one personally and really like it. Its quiet and gets the job done at a fair price. Inverter Generators are also more quiet than "Construction, General purpose portable type generators". That makes for happy neighbors!

One note on generators and fuel that I should make is if you go with the most common generator fuel,Gasoline, you need to store it properly. Generators sit along time between use. The gas gets stale and when you need it its not any use any more. Many people store their generators dry and rotate gas storage every 6 months or so. You should store gas with a product like "Stab-il " which helps keep it fresh for months. Another problem with keeping gas in the generator is modern gas contains ethanol. This is bad for carburetors and leads to them gumming up and needing to be cleaned after sitting for a while with old gas. One benefit of going with a propane generator is propane gas does not go bad and and does not harm the carburetor. More and more generators are being made as dual fuel now. The run on gasoline or propane which is a pretty useful option. Also make sure you stock pile oil for your generator. You need to keep the oil clean when using it for extended run. Its not hard to change, but thats only if you have the oil to change it with!

So aside from generators, what can you use? You can often scrape by an outage using your car's electricity! Your car battery hooked up to an inverter is a great option. You can buy inverters in many sizes. DO NOT BUY A HUGE INVERTER. They sell inverters that run from 1000-4000 plus watts. More in this case is not better! To use one on your car would potentially fry the car's battery and electrical system and could cause a fire. The cables alone needed to safely use inverters of this size are very thick gauge wire or they will heat up. I would stick with an inverter of less than 700 watts. That is enough to rotate between some filters, lights and heaters if you mind the wattage used. Speaking from experience It will get you by in a pitch a few days.You should also run the car often ( not near the house!) to charge the batteries. Your car battery is not really designed for deep discharges. Drain it too far, too often and you shorten its life dramatically. I wrote about inverter battery systems in detail here..http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?117188-An-Alternative-to-a-Generator-The-inverter


What about the battery back up systems sold for computers? Yes you can use these but understand that they are small capacity batteries that would drain fast if you try and run heaters off them. They are made to supply un-interrupted power a short time if you lose it while working on your computer, or maybe things like keeping medical equipment running. They are charged by your household electricity so of limited use in a power outage.

Really most Discus keepers would benefit greatly by investing in back up power solution like a generator or at the least an inverter. It can save you much heart break in the future. Do yourself a favor though, don't wait until you need it to buy a generator or inverter. They become very scarce when a storm hits.Plan ahead and you will be glad you did!


Best always,
al


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RogueDiscus
06-29-2017, 01:05 PM
Nice article Al. I've been thinking about buying a generator for a while. In addition to my tanks, I would like to be able to run things like the fridge and freezer. Costco has a Champion 2800wt/3100 peak inverter generator. Does this sound like enough? Are special cords usually required, also, or just good sized extension cords?

It is dual fuel.

brewmaster15
06-29-2017, 01:20 PM
Steve,
How many heaters and watts do you use?

al

brady
06-29-2017, 02:53 PM
Hi Al
I have a 8000 watt generator I bought after the Oct. storm a couple of years ago, 2011 I believe. We were without power for 11 days
and I had 4 10 gal tanks around my wood stove taking care of the 25 or 30 baby angels I got from you. Haven't needed to use it at all.
Folks should buy the blue sta-bil,not the red, and start that baby up every 2 or so months and let it run for 10 or so minutes.
Also, people put in a transfer switch system. Much safer.
Jay

RogueDiscus
06-29-2017, 03:08 PM
Steve,
How many heaters and watts do you use?

al

Right. Make me go do the math! :) Just being lazy. It's one thing to know how, it's another to apply it!

LizStreithorst
06-29-2017, 03:10 PM
I bought this one a couple of years ago. I put some gas in it and run it dry once a month. I was told to plug stuff into it when I run it every month. If you don't, there's a chance that when you need it it will run but not be able to generate electricity. That info came to a highly respected small engine guy so I do as he suggested. http://www.homedepot.com/p/Duromax-4-400-Watt-Hybrid-Dual-Fuel-Propane-Gas-Powered-Electric-Start-Portable-Generator-with-Wheel-Kit-XP4400EH/203729909

RogueDiscus
06-29-2017, 03:12 PM
I'm assuming that although heaters aren't usually all on at the time, should plan for that anyway.

RogueDiscus
06-29-2017, 03:22 PM
Quick mental math tells me my 6-250 wt heaters plus whatever my air pump takes gets to 2K watts pretty quickly. If I'm buying a generator, the house requirements come first, then the fish. So, do I buy more? Even if I'm miscalculating and looking at this all wrong, I'm really glad for the input.

LizStreithorst
06-29-2017, 03:30 PM
The fish can go a long while without heaters they can't live long with out air. Should we have an outtage during the winter months my plan is to plug in my dehumidifier and an oil filled space heater. Here in Mississippi that should keep the fish warm enough until the power comes back on.

DJW
06-29-2017, 03:30 PM
I bought the Champion 4500w last year. I wanted something for the fish tanks, the big freezers, and the fridge. I have about 2000 watts of heaters, so this looked about right. I got the heavy 12ga extension cords so I can run the needed amps through two cords leading to the fish room and still have a margin of safety.

I found out the hard way that you should do a dry run to see what you need to do with the power strips and cords in the event of a power outage. Otherwise you are fumbling around in the dark and finding out you aren't really ready.

Around here the power outages are usually from wind storms during the winter.

Clawhammer
06-29-2017, 03:32 PM
Hey Al, this is the Ryobi I picked up as a back up, is this the one you recommend? Any additional accessories you have with this to maximize it's performance (like batteries, etc)?

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Ryobi-2-200-Watt-Green-Gasoline-Powered-Digital-Inverter-Generator-RYI2200/203617901

brewmaster15
06-29-2017, 04:32 PM
Hey Al, this is the Ryobi I picked up as a back up, is this the one you recommend? Any additional accessories you have with this to maximize it's performance (like batteries, etc)?

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Ryobi-2-200-Watt-Green-Gasoline-Powered-Digital-Inverter-Generator-RYI2200/203617901

Thats one I use here Eric does my sensitive electronics, and can run some tanks. The nice thing about invert generators is if you need more power you can run two in parallel.

I also have some old uglies from craiglist to pick up the slack... You can find cheap "construction generators" on craigslist... The ones I have are loud obnoxious beasts that will probably out live me,but they are only good for power tools, tanks and frig..not sensitive electronics.

Just be sure you have oil for oil changes and know how to do one..

If you want to maximize its usefulness, you can pick up some deep cycle batteries and inverter.... Use these first... then when they run down, use the invert generator and while running the house/tank stuff recharge the batteries. That model has dedicated cables for charging DC batteries.

al

brewmaster15
06-29-2017, 04:34 PM
I bought the Champion 4500w last year. I wanted something for the fish tanks, the big freezers, and the fridge. I have about 2000 watts of heaters, so this looked about right. I got the heavy 12ga extension cords so I can run the needed amps through two cords leading to the fish room and still have a margin of safety.

I found out the hard way that you should do a dry run to see what you need to do with the power strips and cords in the event of a power outage. Otherwise you are fumbling around in the dark and finding out you aren't really ready.

Around here the power outages are usually from wind storms during the winter.


Dan, its wise to do that...always do a dry run. And if you know a storm is coming, make double sure it all works. If you have a long run from the generator to the house the heavier gauge wire the better!

al

brewmaster15
06-29-2017, 04:38 PM
I bought this one a couple of years ago. I put some gas in it and run it dry once a month. I was told to plug stuff into it when I run it every month. If you don't, there's a chance that when you need it it will run but not be able to generate electricity. That info came to a highly respected small engine guy so I do as he suggested. http://www.homedepot.com/p/Duromax-4-400-Watt-Hybrid-Dual-Fuel-Propane-Gas-Powered-Electric-Start-Portable-Generator-with-Wheel-Kit-XP4400EH/203729909 Liz its good advice.. Periodically run the generator with load on it... just be sure to remove the load before you turn off the generator,, and never start the generator under load. I love dual fuel genny's . You can always find gas grill tanks in a pinch and you can store them forever filled.

al

brewmaster15
06-29-2017, 04:43 PM
Quick mental math tells me my 6-250 wt heaters plus whatever my air pump takes gets to 2K watts pretty quickly. If I'm buying a generator, the house requirements come first, then the fish. So, do I buy more? Even if I'm miscalculating and looking at this all wrong, I'm really glad for the input.


Steve you need to figure that all the load will be on at once. In practice that won't happen, but if it does the generator can fail.. Liz is right about the heaters.. I usually unplug all mine... and I focus on the air and filters. Then I plug in heaters a few at a time as I need them. If you plan on running a well and/or furnace you will need alot more watts.. and it should be hard wired into a transfer switch. An electrician should do that, and they can tell best what you need. If you just want the frig and freezer on extension cords and don't mind working a bit during the outage the one you are looking at should be fine.

al

brewmaster15
06-29-2017, 04:44 PM
Hi Al
I have a 8000 watt generator I bought after the Oct. storm a couple of years ago, 2011 I believe. We were without power for 11 days
and I had 4 10 gal tanks around my wood stove taking care of the 25 or 30 baby angels I got from you. Haven't needed to use it at all.
Folks should buy the blue sta-bil,not the red, and start that baby up every 2 or so months and let it run for 10 or so minutes.
Also, people put in a transfer switch system. Much safer.
Jay

Thanks Jay! Best not to need it Jay but have it when you do!

al

Demosthenes
07-01-2017, 12:11 PM
Does anyone have advice for a propane generator that would run the whole house? Our furnace and water heater already run on propane, so this would be the simplest option for us. Everyone I know runs gasoline generators, so I haven't been able to get an recommendations.

LizStreithorst
07-01-2017, 02:32 PM
My friend Dottie has one of those. She loves it. I called and asked her to tell you what exactly she has. I remember her telling me that it starts itself once a month to keep itself in good working order.

brewmaster15
07-01-2017, 02:39 PM
Does anyone have advice for a propane generator that would run the whole house? Our furnace and water heater already run on propane, so this would be the simplest option for us. Everyone I know runs gasoline generators, so I haven't been able to get an recommendations.

whats your budget?
al

Demosthenes
07-01-2017, 06:31 PM
whats your budget?
al

I have very little sense of what's an appropriate budget, but I'm not looking for something outrageous. I don't need to be vacuuming and drying my hair and running an air conditioner... just something to keep the fridge, a few aquariums, and some lights running. Since our furnace and water heat with propane there shouldn't be a lot of draw coming from them. Would $1-1.5k be reasonable?

brewmaster15
07-01-2017, 09:01 PM
You can easily find several portable propane or dual fuel generators that are under $1000. On the low end, the sportsman line is actally pretty good. I have used their 4000 watt propane genny. It's a good portable. I would not hard wire to a transfer switch. The mid range is something like the duromax line and the generac availible at.home Depot and elsewhere are more pricey. You will want an electrician to wire in a transfer switch. The switch itself is about 150-200...plus labor.

I would look at units in the 5000 plus watt running range. The peak.should be greater.. typically 1000-2000 watts more to compensate for surge's required by some motors.

If you are not opposed to used you can save a bundle on craigslist If you know someone that can check it out with you that understands motors.

Al

Demosthenes
07-01-2017, 09:40 PM
You can easily find several portable propane or dual fuel generators that are under $1000. On the low end, the sportsman line is actally pretty good. I have used their 4000 watt propane genny. It's a good portable. I would not hard wire to a transfer switch. The mid range is something like the duromax line and the generac availible at.home Depot and elsewhere are more pricey. You will want an electrician to wire in a transfer switch. The switch itself is about 150-200...plus labor.

I would look at units in the 5000 plus watt running range. The peak.should be greater.. typically 1000-2000 watts more to compensate for surge's required by some motors.

If you are not opposed to used you can save a bundle on craigslist If you know someone that can check it out with you that understands motors.

Al

This is so helpful. Just googling "propane generator" felt overwhelming since I didn't recognize any of the brands. I don't want to spend $500 extra on a Honda logo just for peace of mind if the cheaper brands are equally reliable. You've given me a great starting place for my research. Thanks Al!

LizStreithorst
07-01-2017, 09:44 PM
Word is that the Honda generator is the best, hands down. I opted for what I decided was the second best choice.

brewmaster15
07-02-2017, 07:27 AM
I mentioned buying a used one on sites like craigslist and wanted to mention a few things more there. You can find some tremendous deals there. Generators that people bought during a storm or just before it... and now havent used it in a year or so and forget why they bought it.

Things to watch out for..

1)seller says it ran fine during the last time it was used but wont start now.... could be just stale Gas...could be a gummed up carburetor especially if its a newer model.

2)starts with starter fluid ... carburetor probably needs cleaning.

3)"brandnew never used...just took it out of the box and broke it in per instructions" ...yeah right.

4)worked great...now "wont start" or" wont produce"..could be something easy to fix.....they know its not.

5)just serviced.....read" I changed the oil" theres not alot of service you can do on most functioning generators outside of oil,air filter and a new sparkplug unless it was broken"...ask what was done.

6) It used to run great...had it running just last "month"now it wont start. Ask how it was stored...many leave their generators outside ...anything could have happened to it.Ask how its stored and check its oil. If the oil is black...dont buy it. Anyone selling a generators taken good care of it will have clean oil in it.

7)what about the old ugly ones? I love them. Solid as a rock....no complicated electronics...easy to work on. reliable but a bit loud. They were made to last and have for decades and decades. Some of the new ones sold now for a few hundred dollars are literally junk...disposables that will die. Do not buy these used. I trust my decades old ugly homelite generator
110798
that I bought for $100 ($50 plus parts)over a new cheap genny. There is one old style one to avoid though.. theres many old green colemans for sale.
110797

They are common and often sell for $200-300 for 4000 watt units. These can be very good if they were maintained and stored dry.. most now have carburetor issues. They dont like being stored with todays gas. They arent hard to clean and there are parts availible..but they can be a hassel. Ive worked on several of them. They probably are not a good choice for someone unaccustomed to engines.

Be sure to ask how a used generator was stored.How often and when the oil was changed. Look at the oil it should not be black. Have them start it with you there when its not been running. BRING a drill or hair dryer..try the outlets.
hth
al

brewmaster15
08-19-2023, 11:08 PM
Kind of a good thread as we head into hurricane season.
Resurrected thread.
Al

brewmaster15
09-08-2023, 05:57 AM
Tracking a cat 5 hurricane that may hit the northeast next week. It may not of course..its still a ways away which is great. If it does it could be a big one for us in the northeast. Now is definitely the time to prepare for it.... both for you and your families safety and of course your fish. The aftermath of a powerful storm is not when you want to be dealing with food, water and power shortages.

Think ahead...plan for worse case scenarios. Some of these storms can leave a wake of power outages that last weeks.

What will you do? How can you protect your family and your fish? Do you have a plan in place?


You really should have at the bare minimum 1 gal drinking water per person per day in storage. Long term shelf stable foods that are easy to prepare. How will you cook with limited to no power? Camp stoves are a good option there(outside use) .. propane does not go bad so ideal for storage. Old fashion coleman camp stoves can be had for cheap and run on coleman fuel or white gas and can be converted to propane easily.

Got bleach? Why bleach. Unscented plain bleach is a life saver. It can be used to sanitize otherwise unsafe drinking water.

136320
https://www.epa.gov/ground-water-and-drinking-water/emergency-disinfection-drinking-water


Generators are great.. now is the time to do your maintenance. Start them .. change oil. Have oil on hand.. have plenty of gas or propane at least enough to get you through a few days. If you dont have one, even a small invert generator can save your fish and your refrigerators content.

Obviously plan on toiletry needs .... and medications.

In todays instant gratification society we are spoiled by the ease of getting things when we want or need them.. Disasters change things in unpredictable ways but planning ahead can mitigate alot of that.

Al

bluelagoon
09-08-2023, 08:57 AM
Do you think we will being seeing hurricane force winds higher than category 5 soon. "I do". They are breaking records every day now as far as weather is concerned. Why not hurricanes. We are getting warmer and storms according to scientists are getting worse. But most of us don't need a scientist to tell us that, from what is happening. We've talked about climate change and why for the most part for decades and now we are just starting to see the outcome of over population and capitalism/growth. It's not a good future for the out look of weather conditions and what life was once like here on earth. The far north is warming sooner than the rest of the planet and the animals and people up there are having issues. We have never seen this many fires up north and heat to boot.

brewmaster15
09-08-2023, 02:14 PM
I think the trend will continue until we get it into our heads that this world is much like a fishtank.


I think that its a truly foolish person that thinks "everything will be okay" when a storm is approaching , simply because it was all the other times. They are called disasters for a reason.

Willie
09-09-2023, 11:25 AM
Enough with the toys, I got a big generator.

136330

brewmaster15
09-09-2023, 11:36 AM
Enough with the toys, I got a big generator.

136330
Thats too funny! But seriously can you hook that baby's battery up a large inverter? I bet it would power quite a few things.

Al

Willie
09-10-2023, 12:46 PM
The car can accept, store and deliver electrical current. I can plug it directly into my electrical panel. It'll easily run the entire house for 3 - 4 days on a full charge. There's only two of us (no teenagers), so your mileage can vary.

brewmaster15
09-10-2023, 02:09 PM
The car can accept, store and deliver electrical current. I can plug it directly into my electrical panel. It'll easily run the entire house for 3 - 4 days on a full charge. There's only two of us (no teenagers), so your mileage can vary.

That is absolutely awesome! No one ever mentions that about these cars.

al