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charizard
07-27-2017, 06:15 PM
I have kept many fish with the Walstad Method and have had great success. What are your opinions on raising discus in walstad type setups. The plants will use up any ammonia before it even becomes nitrate.

I have 6 discus who were already stunted when I got them. The smallest are just 2 inches. I am currently keeping them in a 55 BB. I just want to know your thoughts on keeping discus in a walstad tank.

Clawhammer
07-27-2017, 09:53 PM
It won't work. There are many other toxins and pathogens that are removed through water changes than just nitrates.

fishbubbles
07-27-2017, 09:55 PM
It won't work. There are many other toxins and pathogens that are removed through water changes than nitrates.

Agreed, there's way more to water chemistry than just ammonia/nitrite/nitrate. Large water changes dilute the pathogens in the water which can be deadly to discus.

Jack L
07-27-2017, 11:25 PM
its on my list of things to try at some point. but i know it would be a PITA to try why growing them out, there is just so much waste to deal with considering all the feeding. even with a sump, i was doing tons of water changes and vac to keep it under control.

if i did it, it would be a 200 + gallon tank and 6-8 fish.

i have planted tank, and it was heavily planted at one point, and no amount of plants seemed to be able to deal with waste for the fish when fed heavy.
i have a 140 + 30 gal sump and was growing out a dozen.

the only thing that brought my nitrates down was WC.

charizard
07-28-2017, 12:18 AM
Claw and Bubbles are you saying that discus have weak immune systems? I don't think toxins and pathogens will build up. The book discusses that they will be broken down and turned into plant nutrients.

Jack, is it because multiple feeding are just too much for the plants to take up?

Jack L
07-28-2017, 02:22 PM
Too much for everything, bottom of tank becomes a layer of detritus. I was changing water all the time and carefully vacuuming out the waste. Huge PITA when you are trying to navigate around plants and decor

Clawhammer
07-28-2017, 03:58 PM
Claw and Bubbles are you saying that discus have weak immune systems? I don't think toxins and pathogens will build up. The book discusses that they will be broken down and turned into plant nutrients.

Jack, is it because multiple feeding are just too much for the plants to take up?

Discus are sensitive fish, it is well established that they need frequent water changes, especially if they are younger discus. They are sensitive to the high bacterial loads of planted tanks, especially something like a Walstad tank, which receives almost no fresh water. It will stress them out and cause them to become sick from the many pathogens that thrive in such an environment. A Walstad tank is all about creating a contained symbiotic ecosystem in your tank and discus are incompatible with that goal. Discus have to be the priority in a discus tank unfortunately.

fishbubbles
07-28-2017, 05:02 PM
Discus are sensitive fish, it is well established that they need frequent water changes, especially if they are younger discus. They are sensitive to the high bacterial loads of planted tanks, especially something like a Walstad tank, which receives almost no fresh water. It will stress them out and cause them to become sick from the many pathogens that thrive in such an environment. A Walstad tank is all about creating a contained symbiotic ecosystem in your tank and discus are incompatible with that goal. Discus have to be the priority in a discus tank unfortunately.

Well said, The health and well being of your fish should always come first. If that means more work, then so be it.

charizard
07-28-2017, 05:18 PM
So, to clarify, are you guys saying that discus are susceptible to toxins and pathogens that most other species of fish are immune to?

Clawhammer
07-28-2017, 05:29 PM
So, to clarify, are you guys saying that discus are susceptible to toxins and pathogens that most other species of fish are immune to?

Discus are more stressed out by contaminants than other fish, which leaves them more susceptible to pathogens, hence they require pristine water which can only be achieved through water changes. Other fish aren't "immune" from contaminants in the water but they are more tolerant / less stressed by them than discus. The level of stress a fish is under directly affects the strength of it's immune system.

charizard
07-28-2017, 06:01 PM
I don't know if I believe that. I see discus all the time in planted tanks, I don't know if they grow as well as those in BB tanks, but the fish don't seem stressed or sick. Also, the fish have huge appetites.

Clawhammer
07-28-2017, 06:07 PM
I don't know if I believe that. I see discus all the time in planted tanks, I don't know if they grow as well as those in BB tanks, but the fish don't seem stressed or sick. Also, the fish have huge appetites.

Some people need to learn the hard way, I was like that too. Go ahead and use the search tool in this forum, I have no other agenda other than to save you time and your future discus stress. You will not find one example of someone with a Walstad tank being successful with discus

Adult discus can do well in a planted tank, but not a Walstad tank. Water changes are a must no matter how much you would like that not to be the case.

Ryan925
07-28-2017, 06:23 PM
I think where many go wrong is to try and apply methods that work with other fish to discus. It just never turns out well. Discus have needs much different than other fish. It's like comparing apples to oranges. Nobody changes so much water because it's fun. It's just the way it is

fishbubbles
07-28-2017, 07:23 PM
I think where many go wrong is to try and apply methods that work with other fish to discus. It just never turns out well. Discus have needs much different than other fish. It's like comparing apples to oranges. Nobody changes so much water because it's fun. It's just the way it is

I definitely don't change 250 gallons every evening because it's fun! Charizard, the reason that you don't see anyone using a walstad on a discus tank is simply because it won't work. These fish need very clean water and there's no way around it other than large water changes. You may try for yourself and I wish you luck but you will soon find that your fish become stressed and/or stunted.

Kyla
07-28-2017, 10:40 PM
I made all the mistakes you seem about to make, and I lost discus because of it. I didn't believe it either, the need for what I considered at the time to be "excessive" water changes. It didn't seem logical. Read and research more, we are just trying to help you have success with your discus. Beware of cognitive dissonance.


111387

Luke in Phoenix
08-08-2017, 07:26 PM
I've had planted and BB discus tanks and enjoyed them both. I've tried a modified Walstad setup. Pros and cons. I'm a fan of Walstad but believe the ratio of plants to fish would have to be very high. High enough to keep nitrates at 0. Most people want more than just a couple of discuss in a very large tank. Floating plants help a lot and avoid some other issues. A high output UV sterilizer is also essential. Some amount of WC will still be needed (although reduced) because even if you're close, it's almost impossible to replicate a perfectly occurring lake or river.
Just my experience and opinion. It's fun to try different tank setups. If your fish aren't 100%, you can always increase your WCs.

joricano
12-06-2017, 04:50 PM
You can probably get away with a Waldstadt tank if you have a 300 gallon planted tank with 5 discus. The reason Walstadt tank works on other fish is because the bio load is smaller. Discus on the other hand poops big. So if the tank is not big enough, the amount of poop will contaminate the water.

Jack L
12-06-2017, 09:44 PM
You can probably get away with a Waldstadt tank if you have a 300 gallon planted tank with 5 discus. The reason Walstadt tank works on other fish is because the bio load is smaller. Discus on the other hand poops big. So if the tank is not big enough, the amount of poop will contaminate the water.

and maybe if full grown and you don't feed much.

i grew out 13 in 160G, and there was a layer of detritus produced daily, there is no way plants could eat that up

Adam S
12-06-2017, 11:24 PM
I tried the Walstad thing once with some swordtails. Fun(?), but they didn't grow out nearly as well as ones in a bb tank with big water changes. Pet store grade maybe, but I certainly wasn't proud of them. Doubt the results would be any better with discus.

Do people dislike water changes that much? Nothing better than putting down the phone and looking at your fish for an hour or two.

Ole_Fishy
12-07-2017, 01:36 AM
I'm glad I looked through simply before starting my discus venture.

I have a 55 gallon barebottom from day one with my 6 juvies. doing multiple water changes a week and feeding lots. Even with all these water changes I get a dirty buildup in the tank. however I have had no issues with my fish whatsoever (touchwood).

The only issue I had was a slight bacterial infection....when I thought "I'm sure a piece of driftwood would be fine in the tank". Not!!! They soon started showing signs of bacterial growths on fins and body.

Do yourself a favour and trust the advice given here.

I think the big story of "discus are difficult to keep" stem from first timers trying things like what you want to do then having no success, after which the story is that discus are terribly difficult. They are not difficult, but they are a decent amount of hard work and a labour of love.

Good luck with your first venture!

foldit2me
01-15-2018, 07:51 AM
It won't work. There are many other toxins and pathogens that are removed through water changes than just nitrates.

I agree!

warblad79
01-15-2018, 04:19 PM
I've been breeding and raising discus for about 10 years now but I never looked the other way around. I just do my regular WC in BB tank. Most of the stuff they put in the market are just gimmick and don't work for discus. You can try all you want but at the end WC will always give better results.

kalawai
01-27-2018, 03:21 PM
Walstad tanks and Discus.....equals terrible idea. These two don’t belong together ever. I’ve tried it like others and after a year of banging my head against a rock. The Discus weren’t happy about it and I moved them to a tank with just driftwood that had plants attached to them. The Discus perked up and become happy fish and so was I.
I did lose acouple of Discus when they were in the WT and you think I would have moved them sooner but I was hardheaded about it.... they always had black stripes and never ate well. Duh!
A expensive lesson learned.