Discus newbie cycling question

[wsdiscus]

I have a new 75 gallon i am cycling to prepare for 6 discus
i'm running a Fluval 406 and its been almost a month with no detection of ammonia at all. i have 3 danios and 3 Mollies in the tank.
any ideas how long i should wait before getting my discus?
should i get an ammonia spike with 6 fish in the tank?
i have done no water changes.
thanks

[Jenene]

Welcome Morgan!

You have found the best place to get information and support from people who are passionate about discus. This is an amazing place to learn and hang out with others who share this hobby from all over the world. I have made many great friends here. We are kind of like a big crazy family. Some of us are louder than others but we all love these amazing creatures.

I am not an expert. Only a year in- but since no one has jumped in yet I will get you started.

The first thing everyone will ask you is have you tested for nitrite and nitrate? That will tell you where you are in the cycle. If you have no readings you have a ways to go. The time between the nitrite and nitrate is the longest. When you begin to show nitrate your cycle is complete. Six weeks is about the average to cycle a filter. These are small fish in a big tank. I am not sure if they are able to contribute enough waste to get the cycle going quickly. I am sure someone else will jump in with this...When you add discus to the tank there will be a spike in ammonia from your bacteria needing to grow to handle the new load and you will need to do large daily water changes to keep the discus healthy. Nitrates should not get high with Discus. The target would be to not let them get much more than 5 ppm. Large water changes will not be damaging the bacteria since they live in the filter and surfaces of the tank and not in the water column. Clean, stable water will be your key to success here. Large water changes will be needed. Unfortunately there is no way around it. The amount and frequency is somewhat individual once the discus are adults but young fish will need lots of clean water. Making your routine as simple and painless as possible will enable you to keep up with them.

What is your water source- municipal or well?

Another very important factor is your Ph. Have you tested that? It is not the value itself that is the most important but the stability between the tap and tank. The best way to test for this is to test right out of the tap and then age some water in a clean container with an air stone for 24 hours and test again. If the Ph is the same you will not have to age the water. If there is a swing you will need to age it before you do your water changes. More info on that can be found in the water works section.

There will be different points of view on this way of cycling a tank for discus using live fish. Many choose to go the fishless route to avoid possible contamination of the discus when they are added. Again, there is plenty of information on that in the water works section.

Have you read posts in the beginner's section? There is a great video that is packed full of information that the forum owner Al, has done. I always suggest this for new Discus keepers. It is well worth the investment in time to watch.

What else is in your tank? Do you have substrate? Plants? What size discus are you planning on?

Another key to success is read as much as you can here. The stickies in each section are full of valuable information. Ask lots of questions and chose your fish from a known sponsor here. Many have made the mistake of starting with substandard fish from their local fish stores or other suppliers and have heartbreak from day one.

One more thing I always advise since I never did this -is go to the journal section and document your tank as it evolves. It is amazing to follow and look back after you have had them awhile and can see them grow and change.

Again, welcome! Read as much as you can here and keep asking those questions. Pics are always welcome too. We love pics.

[wsdiscus]

Hi Jenene
Thanks for your welcome and your genuine interest in my questions and advice!
Here are some responses to your follow up questions :

Water source is city water ph is consistent at 7.2, after 4 weeks my aquarium has also had a constant ph of 7.2-7.4

Ammonia, nitrites, nitrates are zero
It seems I have a ways to go with cycling

I'm wondering if I should start with 3 discus and add 3 more to be safe? I was going to rehome the 6 fish I have and get 6 adult discus (4-5 inches) at the same time with maybe
Corycats. Because I don't have a quality discus breeder in my area I will have them shipped to me from a high quality and respected supplier

I have a very fine gravel (sand like)
Some artificial plants and 2 pieces of driftwood
I'm running a pump near the top of the water for oxygen and maintaining a temp of 84-85 degrees

Thanks for any help you can give me
I'm very patient and want to get this right
I will continue reading good stuff and invite others opinions that have experience in the hobby

Morgan

[Jenene]

Hi Morgan,

So glad I can help.

Your patience will pay off. It is funny because people who know me here know I am the opposite of patient but have managed to keep discus pretty well. My reef tank is a lesson in patience...I am working on it. So you have a jump on me there!

Your best bet is to get all of your discus at once. If you only get three there could be aggression issues. A bigger group will disperse it. Also if you add any discus after your initial group you should really quarantine even if you purchase them from the same supplier (which is good practice as well. Different sources have been introduced to different pathogens and could cause problems in your first group.) Some people skip the QT and have no issues others have big ones. Both additions to my tank have been QT'd and I know now it was necessary. It is extra work, time and risk so you can avoid it by one stop shopping.

Your Ph looks great. Stable is perfect.

Someone else will pop in soon and add on yo things I have missed.

My last question is how deep is your sand? A thin layer will be the easiest to keep clean. Sand can hold a lot of debris.

Keep enjoying all there is to explore here. I must say it is rather addicting...

[Ryan925]

Hi Jenene
Thanks for your welcome and your genuine interest in my questions and advice!
Here are some responses to your follow up questions :

Water source is city water ph is consistent at 7.2, after 4 weeks my aquarium has also had a constant ph of 7.2-7.4

Ammonia, nitrites, nitrates are zero
It seems I have a ways to go with cycling

I'm wondering if I should start with 3 discus and add 3 more to be safe? I was going to rehome the 6 fish I have and get 6 adult discus (4-5 inches) at the same time with maybe
Corycats. Because I don't have a quality discus breeder in my area I will have them shipped to me from a high quality and respected supplier

I have a very fine gravel (sand like)
Some artificial plants and 2 pieces of driftwood
I'm running a pump near the top of the water for oxygen and maintaining a temp of 84-85 degrees

Thanks for any help you can give me
I'm very patient and want to get this right
I will continue reading good stuff and invite others opinions that have experience in the hobby

Morgan

Jenene has given you good info and a very thorough answer. That small amount of bioload will not establish a large enough bb colony to handle the bioload of the discus. You can add the discus just be sure to be using a product like prime and doing 80%-100% daily wc for awhile until your BB can establish. I have also had good luck with seachem stability as a supplement to the process as well.

Get all of your discus at once, from the same source.

I would suggest you do an aged water test. It's not so much ph in your tank but if there is any swing between your tap and what's in your tank. Fill a five gallon bucket and put an air stone in it and test in 24 hours.

If you are going 4"-5" 82 is fine. No need for 85

[Jenene]

Jenene has given you good info and a very thorough answer. That small amount of bioload will not establish a large enough bb colony to handle the bioload of the discus. You can add the discus just be sure to be using a product like prime and doing 80%-100% daily wc for awhile until your BB can establish. I have also had good luck with seachem stability as a supplement to the process as well.

Get all of your discus at once, from the same source.

I would suggest you do an aged water test. It's not so much ph in your tank but if there is any swing between your tap and what's in your tank. Fill a five gallon bucket and put an air stone in it and test in 24 hours.

If you are going 4"-5" 82 is fine. No need for 85

There you are Ryan! I finally beat you to one! :p I don't think I have ever been able to pull that off. You must have been charging your phone! :)

Morgan, meet Ryan...he is a good guy, (one of my very first friends here) and can get into the technical questions where I tend to glaze over... My right brain just doesn't go that way. :D

[wsdiscus]

Thanks Ryan!
i will try the aged water test. I believe you are right getting all the discus at once for several reasons.
Thanks for the recommendations.

Morgan

[Ryan925]

Thanks Ryan!
i will try the aged water test. I believe you are right getting all the discus at once for several reasons.
Thanks for the recommendations.

Morgan

Yes it will save you many potential troubles. Take a look at the sponsor page. Many good options depending on what you are looking for. Jenene and I, are of course, partial to Kenny but any of the sponsors would be a solid choice

[wsdiscus]

Jenene,

I am using a sand called Caribsea Instant Aquarium Sand, 20-Pound, Crystal River .
I have about an inch , no more in the tank.
I know what you mean about addicting but i find it to be relaxing and enjoyable so far.

[Jenene]

Good to hear Morgan!
We all do....Once the discus bug has bitten you are under their spell forever.

If you are able to siphon the sand well it will be okay. I had the same kind and it was so fine I was always siphoning it right out. I got it out before the discus arrived but that was just me. Many here use a thin layer of pool filter sand or nothing and go bare bottom. You will know once you begin water changes. Whatever works for you and the discus!

[wsdiscus]

I really like the look of the sand but I haven't done water changes yet so I could change my mind lol
Do you keep tankmates with your Discus. I wanted the sand because i really like the Corys. I am already plotting to set up a second 40 gallon tank in my bedroom, maybe i can put Corys or something else in there. My 75 is all about the Discus but i just wanted to know your thoughts

[Ryan925]

I really like the look of the sand but I haven't done water changes yet so I could change my mind lol
Do you keep tankmates with your Discus. I wanted the sand because i really like the Corys. I am already plotting to set up a second 40 gallon tank in my bedroom, maybe i can put Corys or something else in there. My 75 is all about the Discus but i just wanted to know your thoughts

I have corys with my discus in my 75. Corys are perfectly acceptable tank mates for discus and help with clean up while not impacting bio load too much. Just keep in mind not all varieties will handle the high discus temps. Sterbai or emeralds are a good choice. I'm sure there are others but can't think of them offhand

[wsdiscus]

yeah i was thinking of getting the Sterbai Corys
Does Kenny have those?
do you have any other species of fish in your discus tanks?

[Jenene]

yeah i was thinking of getting the Sterbai Corys
Does Kenny have those?
do you have any other species of fish in your discus tanks?

Kenny doesn't carry anything but discus.I think there may be someone here that does carry them but not a discus supplier. Let me go look...

[Jenene]

yeah i was thinking of getting the Sterbai Corys
Does Kenny have those?
do you have any other species of fish in your discus tanks?

Kenny doesn't carry anything but discus.I think there may be someone here that does carry them but not a discus supplier. Let me go look...

here...try this thread...
http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?125930-where-to-buy-corydora-sterbai&highlight

Oh! This is the one I was looking for!

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?124119-Sterbai-Cories&referrerid=80196

[Ryan925]

yeah i was thinking of getting the Sterbai Corys
Does Kenny have those?
do you have any other species of fish in your discus tanks?

I do. I have glo tetras but not my choice lol

[wsdiscus]

I've never had much success with tetras
I don't think they like alkaline water

[Ryan925]

I've never had much success with tetras
I don't think they like alkaline water

The ones in the discus tank have been there a year and a half. Lots of people keep cardinals or rummynose with discus

[wsdiscus]

I do like rummy nose tetras

[Ryan925]

I do like rummy nose tetras

I just for some serpae tetras for my planted and really like them would have to check to see if they can handle discus temps. I think many of the tetras don't tolerate the higher temps. If I'm not mistaken I think people also keep rasboras with discus

A nice group of cardinal tetras looks great in a discus tank also IMO