Help Needed with CO2 Set Up

[Branch]

After years of failing to grow plants successfully in my discus tanks I'm considering investing in a CO2 kit for my 125g show tank. My biggest concern is the act of pumping a gas in to the tank which I know from reading can, if the concentration isn't correct, harm and even kill the fish. Can anybody advise me of a good, safe and effective, system off the shelf that I can set up and not worry about as I don't want to risk the fish, some of which I've had 10 years however I'm sick of my Swords being reduced to small weak leaves and other plants just gradually dying back. What I don't want is some large and commercially sized gas canister becoming the center piece in my lounge. Would appreciate some help and advice. B

[Altum Nut]

Well I'm no aquatic plant expert by any means but did have success when I had planted tanks. I did have a Co2 system going and as for unsightly co2 tanks in plain view...there are smaller 5Lb tanks available which can be tucked away.
I'm not sure in what ways you were unsuccessful but did you have the proper lights? Many mistakes are made when plant roots are buried to far in substrate and wonder why the rot. Amazon Swords is one that fits this cause to die off.

To stay in line with your question...YES co2 dump is very possible. Automated co2 systems can fail where needle valve on the controller can stick open and if it happens during the night when lights go out and when plants release co2 you may end up with a tank full of dead fish in the morning.
I'm hoping the plant geeks chime in to offer advise on current systems on the market today as I've been out of plants going on 10 yrs now.

...Ralph

[Branch]

Thanks Ralph however that really doesn't inspire me with much confidence as I've suffered like most with heaters sticking over the past 25 years and wiping out fish let alone risking gassing them! My substrate is not deep and it's not that I've killed the Swords they just end up small ie 3" high and they live, but don't thrive. What about liquid fertilizers that claim C02 properties? Cost isn't an option safety and reliability is key.

[Filip]

Branch , the first and the most important factor for growing plants is the light source .
You can grow many plants with just quality light and regular WCs with fresh water . Rhizomes like echinodorus needs deep and rich soil to root , that's why many people pot them in discus tanks .

What kind of light do you use and how much watts lumens do you use ? Whats your daily Photoperiod duration ?
What's the height of your 125 G tank ?
Maybe its just too deep and needs more light than you currently have .

As for CO2 injection , just buy a solid Dual stage regulator and once you set it to a current flow(bubbles per second rate ) , it should stay there pretty solid and accurate .
Co2 Solenoids are used to auto shut off the gas during nights and PH controllers comes very handy when you want to keep constant PH and gas distribution 24/7 .

Not trying to talk you out of co2 but here is my current tank without anything else but Quality light and fresh tap water :
114943

[Branch]

Hi Filip thank you for you post love the tank it looks great.

To answer your questions;

1. I have two 40W T8 tubes, but can have 3 as I have one moonlight for waking up and going to sleep. They are on for 9 hours a day.
2. Tank is 2ft deep.
3. Most of my plants are Echinodorus and Anubias so shouldn't be too difficult

I've been using a liquid C02 booster by API and have tested my C02 levels and they appear to be between 20 - 30ppm which is perfect at the moment but I'm concerned this will drop once they've become established. I have invested in a rather expensive piece of kit made by JBL which comes complete even with the full cylinder and PH controller console etc.

Questions; What size is your tank as the fish look large indicating a large bio-load so how to you manage your nitrate levels? how much do you feed the fish, I count 9 discus, and what are your daily w/c's?
With regard to C02 is it possible to simply have the system turned on for a few hours a day rather than the same time as the lights?

Thanks for your input.

Branch

[pooljap]

I hope this is not breaking any rules but I found this very helpful when I was learning about CO2.

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/26-planted-tank-faq/107312-pressurized-co2-just-thought-id-share.html

[Filip]

Hi Filip thank you for you post love the tank it looks great.

To answer your questions;

1. I have two 40W T8 tubes, but can have 3 as I have one moonlight for waking up and going to sleep. They are on for 9 hours a day.
2. Tank is 2ft deep.
3. Most of my plants are Echinodorus and Anubias so shouldn't be too difficult

I've been using a liquid C02 booster by API and have tested my C02 levels and they appear to be between 20 - 30ppm which is perfect at the moment but I'm concerned this will drop once they've become established. I have invested in a rather expensive piece of kit made by JBL which comes complete even with the full cylinder and PH controller console etc.

Questions; What size is your tank as the fish look large indicating a large bio-load so how to you manage your nitrate levels? how much do you feed the fish, I count 9 discus, and what are your daily w/c's?
With regard to C02 is it possible to simply have the system turned on for a few hours a day rather than the same time as the lights?

Thanks for your input.

Branch


Insufficient light is your main problem , as I suspected .
You need to at least triple your light source just to get to the minimum of "1.2 watts per gallon" zone which is the light demand for the least demanding group of plants , such as Anubias . Even More if you want to keep other species .

You better invest in new T5 fixture with 2 to 3- 54 to 80watt tubes or install 10-20 5-10wats power LEDs if you are serious about having a low tech planted tank . You are already half way there with your Pricey Co2 Kit investment just need to work on your light too.

Co2 levels should be constant throughout the whole photoperiod . Fluctuating CO2 levels during the photoperiod may lead to algae issues .
Since your Kit already have a PH controller just set it to 20 ppm Co2 and leave it there 24/7 , day and night .

@Pooljap is right . You can find a lot more info about this stuff on plant oriented forums or FB groups.
Try forums :Barrreport, Planted tank.net , UKAPS or search for quick answers on "High tech planted tanks " FB Group.


Now for my tank .
Its a 65 Gal. Tank with 9 grown -6 inch discus + 50 tetras and yes it is overstocked . I should get rid of 2-3 discus to stay on the safe side , but Im not yet brave enough to make that choice and give away my babies :) .
I filter the water with Big size / 4 trays , 500 Gph filter filled with bio filtration and I change water 3 times a week , always 70-80% WC.
I fed only 1-2 times a day , limited ammounts ,with tetra bits as staple diet , and some beef heart as a treat occasionaly , right before the water change .
I never have more than 10-20 ppm Nitrates with this bioload and this routine so far .

For more info ., spec. and photos of my tank you can check out my thread here :

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?128066-65-G-Stendker-juvie-mix-growout-thread

[Branch]

Pooljap I'll take a look at the link thank you.

Filip WOW! just spent 30 minutes looking at your thread great tank and I enjoyed looking at the grow out to see the wonderful specimens you have now. Over the years I've had mixed results with growing out my discus, often due to being over excited and buying too many thereby giving me headaches with over stocking, but recently I've been having good results especially with my Wilds once I'd wormed them and they started feeding properly. Are yours all eating again, didn't look at the cause as I ran out of time?

I must be over feeding mine as I have less of a bio-load than you and 125 Imperial gallons, larger than US gallons, as opposed to your 65g and I can't keep my nitrates down as low as yours with 30g water changes with RO daily!

Will upgrade my lights to T5's then not a big issue I used to have 5 hallide lights on my 300g marine tank for the hard corals now that was some expense until a tremor cracked the tank glass and it blew half my house away, fish all survived in rock pools so I was able to save them by putting them in my holding tanks, prompting the insurers to refuse further cover if I chose to have a commercial sized aquarium, their words, in a home.

[Filip]

Pooljap I'll take a look at the link thank you.

Filip WOW! just spent 30 minutes looking at your thread great tank and I enjoyed looking at the grow out to see the wonderful specimens you have now. Over the years I've had mixed results with growing out my discus, often due to being over excited and buying too many thereby giving me headaches with over stocking, but recently I've been having good results especially with my Wilds once I'd wormed them and they started feeding properly. Are yours all eating again, didn't look at the cause as I ran out of time?

I must be over feeding mine as I have less of a bio-load than you and 125 Imperial gallons, larger than US gallons, as opposed to your 65g and I can't keep my nitrates down as low as yours with 30g water changes with RO daily!

Will upgrade my lights to T5's then not a big issue I used to have 5 hallide lights on my 300g marine tank for the hard corals now that was some expense until a tremor cracked the tank glass and it blew half my house away, fish all survived in rock pools so I was able to save them by putting them in my holding tanks, prompting the insurers to refuse further cover if I chose to have a commercial sized aquarium, their words, in a home.

Thanks for your compliments Branch.
Mine catch some very nasty disease after I recklessly put a plant from another tank without a prior proper sterilization . That happened in September when they were 9 months old and they barely ate for 2 -3 months period . That incident stall their growth and left them were they are now at 6 inch mark . If it wasn't for that I'm pretty sure they would have got another inch or two by now .
They regain their full appetite and all eat well from November till this moment.

You should check your sand /substrate and filter material cleanness cause they can collect a lot of dirt and raise nitrates even if you WC regularly.
They should be kept very clean by regular siphoning and using prefilter on the filters intake .
You can try doubling your WC % too . That should help keep nitrates in check .

Two 80 Watt T5 HO or VHO Osram or Phillips tubes with reflectors on them to point down the light should be enough light to operate a low tech planted tank and one of the cheapest alrlternative for your problem.

As for growing Echinodorus , they are heavy root feeders and require deep and rich substrate , so maybe potting them in small and hidden 3inch pots would be your best option to keep the bottom minimal and clean and yet grow big and healthy echinodorus jungle along with your discus .

[Branch]

That's a big price to pay for such a minor error, understandable if you introduce an non quarantined fish but not a plant! Well done for solving the problem. Out of interest how did, in a nutshell, you cure the disease in a planted tank and what was it? (I know you've probably set this out in detail in your thread but just an abbreviated version would suffice.

I've got two stunted discus from a batch I bought in 2010 I know given my bioload I should have been more ruthless however I can't bring myself to do it as if they've survived 7 almost years as runts who am I to play God!?

My filter and substate, gravel 2 - 3" deep inclining front to rear so that Echinodorus have sufficient depth, are cleaned regularly, filter every 4 weeks with pre-filter weekly (its an Eheim Professional II canister filter with a back-up ready to switch over should there be a failure or power cut for over an hour), and my gravel vacuumed deep twice a week. My nitrate levels are 10ppm however the problem I was having was the inconsistent readings I was having with the API nitrate test kit. The Interpet tablet test kit I use as a marker is consistent as it doesn't rely on shaking and drop size whereas the API can vary on the same test plus the lower levels have almost identical colors on the test result card.

I'll be going to the LPS today to buy the T5s or equivalent it depends what they stock, still no sign of the C02 system albeit at $750 it's going to be big shipment.

Over the years I've had mixed results with Echinodorus with sometimes seeing them grow out the top of the tank whilst others shrinking to 4" leaves, but never lost them altogether. If I'm honest with myself I can almost chart their weakening to times when I've been a little lax, due to immense work pressure, on maintenance and attention to feeding or lighting. I don't think I told you but my tank is in my office at work, it's quiet and I get to see them all day which can be a real treat when I feel stressed and need a calming environment I just crash out in my leather lounger and watch them. The other benefit is that when I'm away on holiday or business I have my employees there to feed them and monitor their condition, tank parameters and even change water what more could I ask for? Branch

[lastflea]

Hi Branch, you don't need a co2 kit to grow swords and anubias. It's only really needed for more demanding plants that need a lot of light, and these two only need low light. As Filip suggests, get to the low end of what you need to grow plants. I would personally forget T5 though. They work well, but you can pick up an LED set and save money in the long run. You need to get a set that outputs 6500k on the colour temperature. This refers to the position of the sun, and 6500k is equivalent to the sun being at it's highest point, so best for plant growth. The wattage output will be relative to your tank size and reputable brands will already give the correct level, as well as lumens. Get the right size set for your tank and you're good to go. Get some tabs for your substrate and follow the instructions for them. Add liquid ferts, but only half the recommended dose, just to see how they get on. You might even need to decrease them if the swords start shooting up quickly. You can carry on dosing the co2 replacement, but it's not necessary. The balance between light, tank size and ferts are what matter, and it's trial and error. Get some frogbit if your discus start getting edgy with the brighter light.

[Filip]

That's a big price to pay for such a minor error, understandable if you introduce an non quarantined fish but not a plant! Well done for solving the problem. Out of interest how did, in a nutshell, you cure the disease in a planted tank and what was it? (I know you've probably set this out in detail in your thread but just an abbreviated version would suffice.

I've got two stunted discus from a batch I bought in 2010 I know given my bioload I should have been more ruthless however I can't bring myself to do it as if they've survived 7 almost years as runts who am I to play God!?

My filter and substate, gravel 2 - 3" deep inclining front to rear so that Echinodorus have sufficient depth, are cleaned regularly, filter every 4 weeks with pre-filter weekly (its an Eheim Professional II canister filter with a back-up ready to switch over should there be a failure or power cut for over an hour), and my gravel vacuumed deep twice a week. My nitrate levels are 10ppm however the problem I was having was the inconsistent readings I was having with the API nitrate test kit. The Interpet tablet test kit I use as a marker is consistent as it doesn't rely on shaking and drop size whereas the API can vary on the same test plus the lower levels have almost identical colors on the test result card.

I'll be going to the LPS today to buy the T5s or equivalent it depends what they stock, still no sign of the C02 system albeit at $750 it's going to be big shipment.

Over the years I've had mixed results with Echinodorus with sometimes seeing them grow out the top of the tank whilst others shrinking to 4" leaves, but never lost them altogether. If I'm honest with myself I can almost chart their weakening to times when I've been a little lax, due to immense work pressure, on maintenance and attention to feeding or lighting. I don't think I told you but my tank is in my office at work, it's quiet and I get to see them all day which can be a real treat when I feel stressed and need a calming environment I just crash out in my leather lounger and watch them. The other benefit is that when I'm away on holiday or business I have my employees there to feed them and monitor their condition, tank parameters and even change water what more could I ask for? Branch

I have put out all the plants decor and sand and medicate them in a Bb tank for 2-3 months. when the problem was resolved I pit back the sand and plants .Funny thing was that almost all of my plants survived in a bucket for 2-3 months in a cold november temps. on my balcony . How resilient they must be .
My discus took a lot of meds and treats along with daily 80-90% WC in a course of 3 months
.
I started with PP , then a course of API quick qure , then salt dips and baths , then furan and lastly metronidazole .

As for your light choice , you don't have to spend extra cash buying lamps in a Pet store.
You can buy lamps and all the necesary equipment in a home depo or any commercial light store .They would be lot cheaper there .

Just stick with reputable brands like Osram , Philips or GE and calculate the overall Wattage or lumen output of your light fixture to match the required watt/ lumens per watt ratio for low tech planted tank( That is 1.2 watts or 40-80 lumens per gallon of tank volume ).

[Filip]

Hi Branch, you don't need a co2 kit to grow swords and anubias. It's only really needed for more demanding plants that need a lot of light, and these two only need low light. As Filip suggests, get to the low end of what you need to grow plants. I would personally forget T5 though. They work well, but you can pick up an LED set and save money in the long run. You need to get a set that outputs 6500k on the colour temperature. This refers to the position of the sun, and 6500k is equivalent to the sun being at it's highest point, so best for plant growth. The wattage output will be relative to your tank size and reputable brands will already give the correct level, as well as lumens. Get the right size set for your tank and you're good to go. Get some tabs for your substrate and follow the instructions for them. Add liquid ferts, but only half the recommended dose, just to see how they get on. You might even need to decrease them if the swords start shooting up quickly. You can carry on dosing the co2 replacement, but it's not necessary. The balance between light, tank size and ferts are what matter, and it's trial and error. Get some frogbit if your discus start getting edgy with the brighter light.

Just a little correction Rob. Color temperature/ Kelvins don't affect plant growth and photosynthesis, at least not in a level worth mentioning.
The most important parameters on a light source affecting plant growth are Light intensity ( PAR,PUR , Lumens ) and light wavelength (blue and red light radiation of the spectrum are used for Photosynthesis much more than the green radiation ).
CRI and Colour temp / Kelvins are only important for our viewing pleasure and expressing the colours of fish and plants more naturally in our eyes .

[lastflea]

Just a little correction Rob. Color temperature/ Kelvins don't affect plant growth and photosynthesis, at least not in a level worth mentioning.
The most important parameters on a light source affecting plant growth are Light intensity ( PAR,PUR , Lumens ) and light wavelength (blue and red light radiation of the spectrum are used for Photosynthesis much more than the green radiation ).
CRI and Colour temp / Kelvins are only important for our viewing pleasure and expressing the colours of fish and plants more naturally in our eyes .

Hi Filip, yes I agree light intensity is more important, but 6500k gives balance between white, red and blue, so I'd disagree that it has little consequence. Some people prefer bluer light at around 10000k, and still manage success in planted tanks, others prefer 4000k. Surely if plants are looking more natural, it's because they're getting a more natural source of day light at 6500k? My advice was intended to simplified and PAR, PUR and lumens do tend to complicate things. 6500k is a very good starting point, and as mentioned, the lumens are pre determined by the manufacturer based on how wide the tank is. If I've annoyed you in any way, my apologies, that wasn't the intention...

Branch, I just realised you've bought a co2 kit for $750? Honestly, this isn't needed for swords and anubius. Root tabs are key to swords, not co2. And the right light of course. Good luck, what ever you decide :)

[Branch]

Hi Filip, yes I agree light intensity is more important, but 6500k gives balance between white, red and blue, so I'd disagree that it has little consequence. Some people prefer bluer light at around 10000k, and still manage success in planted tanks, others prefer 4000k. Surely if plants are looking more natural, it's because they're getting a more natural source of day light at 6500k? My advice was intended to simplified and PAR, PUR and lumens do tend to complicate things. 6500k is a very good starting point, and as mentioned, the lumens are pre determined by the manufacturer based on how wide the tank is. If I've annoyed you in any way, my apologies, that wasn't the intention...

Branch, I just realised you've bought a co2 kit for $750? Honestly, this isn't needed for swords and anubius. Root tabs are key to swords, not co2. And the right light of course. Good luck, what ever you decide :)

Filip/Lastflea thanks for the input. I did buy LED in the end 6500K white, red and blue (Interpet Tri Spec High Output LED system for 5" tank) amazing difference plus the 3 T8s are still there to boost the spectrum. The discus, as opposed to being freaked, seemed to enjoy the additional lighting everything is coming together with Nitrates now under 10ppm. I've not got the C02 system yet and will monitor the results as things stand at the moment. One question; how much light intensity is lost through condensation trays over the tank I remember my marine tank was open and the halides were very effective especially with the accropora?

Filip I must take my hat off to you for the diligence you applied treating your fish it must have been an anxious time, not to mention time consuming. Branch

[lastflea]

Filip/Lastflea thanks for the input. I did buy LED in the end 6500K white, red and blue (Interpet Tri Spec High Output LED system for 5" tank) amazing difference plus the 3 T8s are still there to boost the spectrum. The discus, as opposed to being freaked, seemed to enjoy the additional lighting everything is coming together with Nitrates now under 10ppm. I've not got the C02 system yet and will monitor the results as things stand at the moment. One question; how much light intensity is lost through condensation trays over the tank I remember my marine tank was open and the halides were very effective especially with the accropora?

Filip I must take my hat off to you for the diligence you applied treating your fish it must have been an anxious time, not to mention time consuming. Branch

Hi Branch. Am pretty confident you'll see some fairly rapid improvements with that unit. If algae starts to appear then reduce your daytime setting. If you get the controller you can simulate sunrise and sunset, which aside from being pretty awesome, will benefit the plants and reduce the risk of algae. It's definitely a trial and error game, like anything in fish keeping, but I reckon this is set up will be more forgiving than others.

Glass will always deflect light to some degree, but not too drastically. However much that happens, maybe 5/10%, you'll see improvements. If you're happy with growth then happy days. If not then really there's only two things you can do: Lower the unit by taking off the stand and setting it on a thin layer of polystyrene at each end, or remove the trays. Keeping them clean will help a little.

[Filip]

Hi Filip, yes I agree light intensity is more important, but 6500k gives balance between white, red and blue, so I'd disagree that it has little consequence. Some people prefer bluer light at around 10000k, and still manage success in planted tanks, others prefer 4000k. Surely if plants are looking more natural, it's because they're getting a more natural source of day light at 6500k? My advice was intended to simplified and PAR, PUR and lumens do tend to complicate things. 6500k is a very good starting point, and as mentioned, the lumens are pre determined by the manufacturer based on how wide the tank is. If I've annoyed you in any way, my apologies, that wasn't the intention...

Branch, I just realised you've bought a co2 kit for $750? Honestly, this isn't needed for swords and anubius. Root tabs are key to swords, not co2. And the right light of course. Good luck, what ever you decide :)

Not offended at all by a civil discussion Rob.
Just want to help you clear your misconception about Kelvins as an factor for plant grow .
They don't indicate the spectrum nor the wavelenght of a specific bulb . You can have 2 bulbs with same Kelvin range and totally different spectrum range , and you can also have 2 bulbs with totally different kelvin range I.e. 2700 and 10000 kelvins , and yet same spectrum distribution (radiation wavelength ).

There are professional plant grow bulbs on the market that range 2700 K and there are professional plant grow bulbs with 10000 k .
In fact most of the professional plant grow bulbs have red - pink hue and 2700 K .

Rated Kelvins are not relevant indicator to guide from when choosing plant grow bulbs . Spectral distribution (wave length ) and light intensity(lumens) are .
Here is one of many threads on this subject you can find online :

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=37501

[Filip]

Nice choice Branch . You don't go cheap at all , when it comes to your hooby and passion :) .

Just be carefull of algae in this initial period and dont exceed 6-8 hours full intensity photoperiod as Rob already suggested.
As for condensation trays , just keep them clean and don't worry about the condensation too much . They ussualy dry out due to heat emitted by lights during the photoperiod and get soaking wet only during the nights . Anyway you can't loose more than 10 % so its not something to worry about .
Just out of curiosity about your light.
How many LEDs by each group - white , red and blue Leds do you have on the fixture ?

[Branch]

Thanks Rob and Filip.

No I always believe that you should buy the best of what you can afford especially on a hobby that you love and spend so much time on, and as you know discus are demanding. I was actually wondering whether I should put 2 LED systems in just tom make should however it is a rather big outlay... No algae as yet after a week so fingers crossed it won't be too much of a problem my big concern was the loss of light through the condensation trays which you both think is minimal.

I believe, but will check tomorrow, that the unit has 29 LEDs split between red, blue and white, sound about right? what are your thoughts on the Interpet unit? Branch

[lastflea]

Not offended at all by a civil discussion Rob.
Just want to help you clear your misconception about Kelvins as an factor for plant grow .
They don't indicate the spectrum nor the wavelenght of a specific bulb . You can have 2 bulbs with same Kelvin range and totally different spectrum range , and you can also have 2 bulbs with totally different kelvin range I.e. 2700 and 10000 kelvins , and yet same spectrum distribution (radiation wavelength ).

There are professional plant grow bulbs on the market that range 2700 K and there are professional plant grow bulbs with 10000 k .
In fact most of the professional plant grow bulbs have red - pink hue and 2700 K .

Rated Kelvins are not relevant indicator to guide from when choosing plant grow bulbs . Spectral distribution (wave length ) and light intensity(lumens) are .
Here is one of many threads on this subject you can find online :

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=37501

Hey Filip. I read the link, but to be honest it's just confusing me. Everything I read about the right type of light for planted tanks refers to colour/hue, rated kelvins. Not digging my heels in here, I don't wear them, but surely kelvins should be considered if plants only absorb certain colours during photosynthesis? I'm not saying plants can't grow in 10000k, 2700k, but more that it's easier to grow them successfully at 6500k. Would I be right in saying there is broader scope for error in wave length and lumens if the rated kelvins are 6500k? This seems a fair argument when I read something like this:

https://www.drsfostersmith.com/pic/article.cfm?articleid=940

[Filip]

Simply put , people recognise the colours of the light source in Kelvins (6500 K AKA daylight being most preferred by a human eye for natural colours ) .
Plants recognise / use colours in Nanometers NM - radiation wavelength (red and blue radiation spectum ends expressed in Nanometers being most preferred )

Tottaly different and individual parameters , measurements and qualities of the light source .

Plants prefer blue (430-480 nm )light and red (650-730 nm ) part of the wavelength spectrum .
Whether and how much of each of this colours does one bulb contains , you can not detect by reading its Kelvin rating.

[Filip]

I believe, but will check tomorrow, that the unit has 29 LEDs split between red, blue and white, sound about right? what are your thoughts on the Interpet unit? Branch

There is very little info and reviews on this light online Branch. I guess its a fairly new and still unproven product among the hobbists.
I guess you have the biggest size available 116-124 Cm length . I found some data online that Claims 57 Watts total power and honestly that sounds too little for your monster 25 inch deep tank to me .
Only time will tell I guess. But I would def. Run them along with your current neon bulbs.

[Branch]

Hi Filip, to answer yesterday's question the LEDs are as follows; 6 red, 6 blue and 17 white = 29 total 6,500K but I'm not going to get into the middle of that one with you and Rob. So there's 3 x 40W T8s and the LED unit. Would an additional LED unit be a good option? The condensation trays are always kept clean but by their very nature fogged over by condensation. If I were to remove them the wooden hood would likely rot as when I've left a tray open the moisture is dripping off the hood. Still no sign of the C02 unit....Branch

[Filip]

@Branch , one LED unit along with your neon bulbs would suffice IMO . If algae starts to form start turning off your neon bulbs one by one every 2-3 weeks according to the results , until you hit the sweet spot .

[Branch]

Hi Filip, problems the LED system blew, returned to shop and replaced, the LED driver was very hot? The second one has also blown same problem! As my tank is enclosed and the condensation trays are resting 20mm from the LED strip do you think the system is overheating? Surely the system was designed to rest over the tank as the brackets have sliding ends to lock onto the side of the frame? Have left the lid open to see if the heat dissipates as I've now got a third in place and the driver as well as the light strip is very warm. Help!

[Filip]

Sorry for my delayed response Branch . I guess you have already solved the problem by now .
LEDs are mostly designed for open top tanks and not very suitable to run them under the tank hood.
2 Cm distance give them very little space to ventilate even if you have cooler / ventilator units installed on your canopy .
LEDs emits a lot of heat and you will need to consider installing ventilation units on both ends of the canopy , one to provide fresh and cold air , and other one to take out the heat from inside out .

[Branch]

Hi Filip, hey no worries I check daily on the posts to see if I can anyone and likewise look at mine. I gathered that there was a lack of heat dissipation and removed the front section of the canopy which has solved the problem albeit it's not as pretty looking down on an open top when the design was spectacular before. It's been another trying week due to 3 of the fish not eating and hiding in the corner of the tank, indicating some sort of internal parasite likely Hex as I saw one with stringy white feces. Apart from dosing the tank with Prazi, it has in the past cured worms in my Wilds, I've just kept the feeding consistent and water changes frequent. After all the years I've kept discus I don't like to rush with meds etc I have found that pristine water and patience is a better way to go. The fish aren't dark or stressed just reclusive. My QT/hospital tank is there for emergencies however the thought of trying to capture the fish in a planted environment isn't appealing. What's your experience with intestinal parasites and treatment thereof? Branch

[Filip]

Ive had some non eating grown discus that came back eating on their own after a month of fasting or maybe even more . They did not have any poop during the fasting period though .
When I see white-Hex poop/ intestinal lining I usually transfer them to QT and Start with heat treatment (34-35 C ) for 7 days .than I give them a break for 5 days with normal temp and observe. If that doesn't help I proceede with Metronidazole and heat for 10 days .

[Branch]

That makes sense however I'm going to observe them over the next few days as I've not seen white poop in the Wild Blue just a PB. The HT is about ready just not too anxious to be chasing them around in the planted tank...