everything is going wrong, about to throw in the towel...

[nancyx25]

Hello all,

I have been reading you all for about a year but this is my first thread...I wish it could be a better one, unfortunately everything is going nuts in my tank and I am just about to give up.
Will try and keep this short, but since the more explanations I give can help better understand the situation, I am guessing this will be a long post! sorry about that!
purchased 10 discus about 10 months ago from a local breeder. all were about 4 inches and are all now close to 6 inches and were doing beatifully.
I have been a fish keeper for over 15 years and just got into discus as I felt ready for the challenge, but I guess I am failing miserably...

Just 2 weeks ago, a pair formed and the female laid eggs and the male fertilized. SUCH JOY! 2 days later, as expected, the eggs were gone. On the very day that a female laid eggs, another female started to have stress bars appear and she stop eating. A few days later, I noticed she had transparent mucus like poop. The male from the pair got much darker in color and also stopped eating and started to have white/transparent poop. when I noticed this, I decided to start a prazipro treatment. raised the temp a little (from 86 to 88) and added the correct dosage.

this was on wednesday. On thursday, I noticed a blue diamond had popeye. Read on the subject and tried to do 50% water change everyday for at least a week or until I see improvement.
So wednesday, 50% water change, added correct dose of prazipro
thursday: noticed the popeye on one fish. did 50% water change and redosed prazipro
friday: the fish with popeye also now had a very swollen belly. read on that subject and it is suggested to add salt to the water as it can help with the possible constipation. so started that as well...oufff this is getting a bit much for me, I can just imagine for them...
so on friday, 50% water change, redosed the prazipro, added salt at the rate of 1 tablespoon per 10 gallons.
saturday: 50% water change, redosed prazipro, added salt again to compensate for the water change. by this time, nobody has recovered or got better. the 3 fish with white poop still have it and are still not eating and the fish with popeye is actually worse as now he is also bloated.
sunday (last night), same thing, 50% water change, redosed prazipro, did not add salt as I noticed the bloated fish did start to poop, but he is still bloated, eyes are still bulgy and still not eating.
this morning I woke up to a dead fish!!!! this blue diamond that died HAD NO SYMPTOMS whatsoever. he was eating, did not have white poop, did not look sick at all. This fish however has always been very upset at every water change. He would get darker every single time I do a water change, and my regular schedule is 50% every 3 days (sometimes more) he would get darker as I am doing the water change but would return to his normal color a few hours after. could the stress of all the recent water changes have killed him? could it be the mix of prazipro and salt?

so here I am...can't sleep and completely obsessing about what is going on in my tank and how I should continue from this point...
I went from a beautiful happy group with a breeding pair, to dark stressed out fish with white feces, not eating, popeye, bloated and a dead fish. the worse part is I do not know how things got like this. I have never missed a water change, my water parameters are perfect, I have not added any new items, fish or plants to the tank yet all of a suddent all hell brakes loose! the only thing I can think of right now is that my municipal water may have new or too much chemicals or something happepend related to my municipal water as it has been very very hot and the city did give out notices that we are not to use water in excess as the levels are low...

sooo, where do I go from here? should I try metro for the white poop that just wont go away? should I let go the sick blue diamond? could he have dropsy? should I just continue with the daily water changes and salt? I am really going crazy with this situation and thought perhaps others would have a few suggestions or ideas as to what I should do to help the problem. I do have 5 other discus in there that are doing great, as if nothing is wrong. great appetite, great color, normal poop, great attitude...I am so afraid they will also get what the others have, whatever it is...

tank is 125 gallons.
sand substrate (thinking of removing it)
2 plecos
10...oh I mean 9 discus fish now :(
10 black fantom tetras
2 big canister filters
no plants
temp normally at 86, currently at 88
ammonia 0
nitrites 0
nitrates, do not know, out of test but with amount of water changes I am making I assume the nitrates are very low
municipal water
ph 7.4

thanks so much for listening! please fell free to add any comments, suggestions, anything you can think of!

[LizStreithorst]

It would help if you were to fill out the disease form and if you could post pictures. My question right off the bat is whether or not you age your water. If not do you know your pH swing straight from the tap and after 24 hrs of aeration in a bucket?

[nancyx25]

It would help if you were to fill out the disease form and if you could post pictures. My question right off the bat is whether or not you age your water. If not do you know your pH swing straight from the tap and after 24 hrs of aeration in a bucket?

I will post the questionnaire but concerning the water, I use water from the tap and use dechlorinator with it (API or tetra depending on what the store has). I do not let it sit, How can anyone let 75 gallons of water sit for 24 hours I do not know, but I cant manage that...I use water form the tap and treat it as I am bringing the water level back up.
I do know my ph swing, I have tested it many times prior to having discus. water comes out of the tap at ph 7. after 24 hours it is a 7.2 and 48 hours at 7.4. this is why I mention my ph at 7.4 as I have never went more than 3 days without a water change, and when measuring my ph on water changing day it is always at 7.4.
am at work right now, so I do not have pics of the sick fish or white pooping fish, but will definately add some when I get homw.

thanks so much. questionnaire will follow!

[nancyx25]

1. Please explain the problems with your fish. When did you notice the problems and did anything unusual happen that you think started them?

3 fish are not eating and have transparent mucus like poop. 2 of those show stress bars and are darker in color
1 fish has popeye and bloated belly as well as not eating
1 fish presenting NO symptoms died this morning. only thing weird about this fish is he would get very dark in color at EVERY water change since I purchased him.
I do not know of anything unusual that might have happened other that the fact that everything started to go bad after a couple spawned. also, the extremely hot waether in my area might have caused the city to add or change the water chemistry...we have a shortage of water and I think the city could be using more or other chemicals than they use to. Have contacted them with no reply so far...


2. Symptoms (i.e. turning dark, excess slime, not eating, clamped fins, flashing, darting, clamped gills, white/yellow/green poop, hiding, headstanding or tailstanding, white on tips of fins, rotting or fungus, blisters/white zits on fish, bloated, cloudy eyes, wounds).

turning darker, stress bars, not eating, white feces. one fish with popeye and swollen abdomen, but he swims ok, he does not hide, his appearence has not change other than the swolen eyes and belly, his color is the same.


3. What medications/ treatments have you already tried and what were the results. Include dosage and duration of treatment.

prazipro - 5 day tratment as indicated on bottle
50% water changes everyday - redosing prazipro art every water change to compensate (added only the amount needed to cover 75 gallons) water changing since tuesday, so 6 days in a row now.
added aquarium salt to the rate of 1 tablespoon per 10 gallons. added 10 tablespoons on friday (dissolved in aquarium water and added gradualy in the tank) then added 6 tablespoon in the same maner on saturday to compensate for 50% water change. (actually did more around 70% water change that day)



Tank/Water

4. Tank size and ages, numbers and sizes of fish.
as mentionned in original post - tank has around 10 months of age


5. Water change regime (What percentage and how often).
normally 50% every 2 or 3 days.
this week, 50% everyday

6. How long has tank been running? Is it bare bottom? If you have substrate, what type and how deep is it?
running for 10 months - sand about 1 inch and a half, maybe 2 inches


7. Do you age your water? If you do for how long and what is the ph swing.
do not age the water. ph out of tap is 7 right on the nose. 7.2 after 24 hours, 7.4 after 48 hours. tested it on 3rd day in tank, was still at 7.4.


8. Parameters and water source;
Note: Water Parameters are important in diagnosing problems within a tank. If you don't own test kits for the following information, you can purchase them, test your parameters and post this info as soon as possible.


- temp __88___

- ph __7.4___

- ammonia reading ___0_

- nitrite reading __0__

- nitrate reading __? out of tests do not have my current reading on nitrates__

What type of water or combinations of water sources do you use? If it is an RO/tap/well water mix, please list percentages in the mix.

- well water ____

- municipal water ___100%_

- RO water ____
9. Any new fish, plants or inverts added recently.
no, nothing added and nothing removed!

10. Please tell us what you feed your fish and how often. This can be critical information for solving the problem so be as specific as you can.
tetra color granules
frozen blood worms once a week (did not give any this week)
frozen brine shrimp (did give it every other day this week to help constipation...)
home recipe (do not have beefheart in my area, made the recipe with beef liver and some chicken hearts among other thing) have been feeding this since day 1 of having them and they love it, but because I dont trust the chicken hearts that much I have not given any this week as I am trying to find the cause of all this.
dried flakes mostly for the tetras
repashy super foods for my plecos (cube dropped in bottom of tank at night, never saw a discus eat some)

11. Include any pictures or videos you have which shows the symptoms. If you can't add them to this post, please provide a link to them.

will provide pics tonight.

thanks!

[Adam S]

Sorry to hear about your tank. Can't really offer you an "answer," as there are so many unknowns with diagnosing illnesses over the internet. Just some thoughts:
- Prazi probably won't do anything for your fish. Doesn't sound like a gill or tapeworm issue.
- 1 TBS/10 gal of salt is almost completely benign. "Tonic" doses start at 1 TBS/5 gal, whereas real treatment doses are closer to 1 TBS/1 gal. The plecos can handle it.
- Sounds like you have some bacterial nasties. Lower your temp. Warmer temps accelerate bacterial growth.
- Make sure to vacuum as often as you can while treating especially in tanks with substrate.

[nancyx25]

Thanks so much for your input this exactly what I need, some fresh eyes and opinions. There are so many things going on at once and i have been reading on to many subjects so I am completely lost as to what I should do next. Thanks for the salt info. Am so afraid of putting too many things in there i did go a little light on dosing it. These fish never had any meds given to them and i really dont like improvising.

[RogueDiscus]

Hi Nancy and thanks to Adam for responding to you. I'm no disease expert, but I did try to get others to see your post. I think one of the last things you said "i really don't like improvising." was great advice.

[nancyx25]

Should i be getting some metroplex? By the time it arrives the fish will have about 5 days of break in between prazi and metro. Of course i would just add it in the case the white feces are still around. Would 2 treatments so close together be too harmful on them?

[nancyx25]

Hi Nancy and thanks to Adam for responding to you. I'm no disease expert, but I did try to get others to see your post. I think one of the last things you said "i really don't like improvising." was great advice.
Thanks so much for your help. Yes i really hate this situation because i am by nature a thorough person and dont do anything without thinking twice. But in this instance unless i get a vet and pay the heavy price for a specialist to assist me i have to take decisions and try to help them or just watch them die...since i cant afford the vet i have to go with option 2 and do what i can.

[LizStreithorst]

I'd have started with 100% metro from Jhemco. Adam is correct. Prazi was the wrong choice. Pat or Al will be see your post soon. They are the disease experts. Don't do anything until you hear from them.

[jeep]

The first thing I would do is lower the temp to about 82. Adam is correct that this sounds bacterial and higher temps will accelerate this problem. He is also correct about using a higher concentration of salt. If the problem is due to the water supply, I'm not sure what you could do. If there is a large ph swing try doing 2 25% water changes several hours apart.

[snxtif]

Hello all,
friday: the fish with popeye also now had a very swollen belly. read on that subject and it is suggested to add salt to the water as it can help with the possible constipation. so started that as well...oufff this is getting a bit much for me, I can just imagine for them...
so on friday, 50% water change, redosed the prazipro, added salt at the rate of 1 tablespoon per 10 gallons.


Are we talking about aquarium salt? Wouldn't epsom salt be better for bloat?

Agreed with others on metro, though I'm not the expert (but that's what I'd do).

Anyway, treating the whole tank is so unfun (been there), that's why my 20g hospital tank was one of the best investments in my discus keeping life.

[jeep]

Are we talking about aquarium salt? Wouldn't epsom salt be better for bloat?

Epsom is good for constipation and would be ok to use as well. However, if this is bacterial then any non-iodized salt can help with infection and bacterial issues. A 50lb bag of Solar Salt from HD is much cheaper and will last a very long time...

[nancyx25]

The first thing I would do is lower the temp to about 82. Adam is correct that this sounds bacterial and higher temps will accelerate this problem. He is also correct about using a higher concentration of salt. If the problem is due to the water supply, I'm not sure what you could do. If there is a large ph swing try doing 2 25% water changes several hours apart.

thank you so much.
lowered the temp to 84 for now. and will bring to 82 by the morning. then I will wait. will not be doing any water change or adding salt or anything else tonight. I need the break and the fish do to as well and I prefer to make a good plan of action before going further and will await others opinion. I am tempted however to put my uv sterilizer on. I have one built in one of my canisters and never used it as I was afraid it would mess with my cycle, but I think it's only effective on bad bacteria in the water column and not the beneficial bacteria in the media or other surfaces. I think it could just help at this point...
I am wondering if I should continue feeding or give a day or 2 of no food to help digestion, or whatever it is creating the bloating in one fish and white feces on 3 others...
back from work now, will post pics. the blue diamond has a little bubble shape next to his right eye now, he really is not improving at all even with all the water changes and the salt. his left eye became cloudy, was not like this before i left for work. was protuding but not cloudy.

(first time uploading pics, hope it works!)

pic 1-2-3 - blue diamond with popeyes and swollen belly
pic 4 - female with stress bars, not eating and white feces, (but could not get a pic of her with poop)
pic 5 - blue turquoise male darker in color, not eating, white feces. he is the male that spawned 2 weeks ago. after the eggs were gone he darken in color and stopped eating...noticed as i was taking pics tonight he was shaking his dorsal fin a bit and stopped.
pic 6 and 7- red melon female with white feces but she does eat a bit. her color is normal and attitude as well. she is the one that laid eggs 2 weeks ago.
pic 8 is of mister boss man. there is nothing wrong with him other than the fact that he thinks he is king and can be a bit agressive during lunch time. all the other fish are in as good of a shape as he is. eating, colors normal, feces normal.


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[nancyx25]

Are we talking about aquarium salt? Wouldn't epsom salt be better for bloat?

Agreed with others on metro, though I'm not the expert (but that's what I'd do).

Anyway, treating the whole tank is so unfun (been there), that's why my 20g hospital tank was one of the best investments in my discus keeping life.

I have aquarium salt. purchased at my lfs. it's a very fine salt and dissolves quickly. do not know if the 'concentration' is any different than epson salt however. I am completly new to the salt thing in fresh water tanks! never added it before and didnt even know the benefits of it! we learn so much on forums like this!
as for a QT or hospital tank, I do have a 25 gallon for that, but because 4 out of 10 fish seem to have something, I figured I would treat the hole tank.

[nancyx25]

well I had posted pics but cant seem to find them on here anymore. sorry if this is a double post, really cant find the first one with pics...

lowered the temp to 84 for now. and will bring to 82 by the morning. then I will wait. will not be doing any water change or adding salt or anything else tonight. I need the break and the fish do to as well and I prefer to make a good plan of action before going further and will await others opinion. I am tempted however to put my uv sterilizer on. I have one built in one of my canisters and never used it as I was afraid it would mess with my cycle, but I think it's only effective on bad bacteria in the water column and not the beneficial bacteria in the media or other surfaces. I think it could just help at this point...
I am wondering if I should continue feeding or give a day or 2 of no food to help digestion, or whatever it is creating the bloating in one fish and white feces on 3 others...
back from work now, will post pics. the blue diamond has a little bubble shape next to his right eye now, he really is not improving at all even with all the water changes and the salt. his left eye became cloudy, was not like this before i left for work. was protuding but not cloudy.

(first time uploading pics, hope it works!)

pic 1-2-3 - blue diamond with popeyes and swollen belly
pic 4 - female with stress bars, not eating and white feces, (but could not get a pic of her with poop)
pic 5 - blue turquoise male darker in color, not eating, white feces. he is the male that spawned 2 weeks ago. after the eggs were gone he darken in color and stopped eating...noticed as i was taking pics tonight he was shaking his dorsal fin a bit and stopped.
pic 6 and 7- red melon female with white feces but she does eat a bit. her color is normal and attitude as well. she is the one that laid eggs 2 weeks ago.
pic 8 is of mister boss man. there is nothing wrong with him other than the fact that he thinks he is king and can be a bit agressive during lunch time. all the other fish are in as good of a shape as he is. eating, colors normal, feces normal.
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[snxtif]

As far as I know, if you choose to medicate your fish (especially dose in water column), you should turn OFF UV filter,
due to some meds are light sensitive and UV will break down the meds molecules (being destroyed without getting into your fish)

UV filter is very useful though, but for "preventive" imo.


Below copied from Seachem "Metroplex" homepage;

Directions
Dosing in Water
Remove all invertebrates - these are extremely sensitive to medication.
Turn off UV filters, ozone filters, and remove chemical filtration like MatrixCarbon™ and Purigen™.
Use 1-2 measures (included) per every 40 L (10 US gallons).
Repeat this dose every 48 hours for up to 3 weeks or until symptoms disappear.

[nancyx25]

As far as I know, if you choose to medicate your fish (especially dose in water column), you should turn OFF UV filter,
due to some meds are light sensitive and UV will break down the meds molecules (being destroyed without getting into your fish)

UV filter is very useful though, but for "preventive" imo.


Below copied from Seachem "Metroplex" homepage;

Directions
Dosing in Water
Remove all invertebrates - these are extremely sensitive to medication.
Turn off UV filters, ozone filters, and remove chemical filtration like MatrixCarbon™ and Purigen™.
Use 1-2 measures (included) per every 40 L (10 US gallons).
Repeat this dose every 48 hours for up to 3 weeks or until symptoms disappear.

I have not administered metro yet, only prozipro. I had indeed removed the carbon and purigen from my filter and the uv has been off since forever as I never used it before. the prazirpo has been administered 6 days ago and still no improvement. this is why I am thinking of going with metro and also the reason I have turned on the uv. I agree the uv will probably not do much at this point. thanks for letting me know it should be off if and when I start metro, good to know! I will be purchasing it fisrt thing tomorow morning and will await suggestions as to if I should use it or not...

[Second Hand Pat]

Hi Nancy, sorry to be the bearer of bad news but the first fish pictured is not going to make it. Look close and you will see that the fish is swollen throughout the head and body. I had one do this and I was not able to save it. I think it is a massive infection in the fish. Do the eyes on the red melon seem to be swollen also?

As suggested add the salt and please lower the temp (for now). Can you remove the decorations in the tank. Idea is to make the tank as simple as possible. It is better to treat in a bare bottom tank. I think for the rest of the fish a course of pure metro is best. As Liz suggested you can get it from Jehmco or angelfishplus. Also as suggested keep the water changes small as the water seems to be the source of stress (guessing here). Lets let the fish rest until the metro arrives.
Pat

[nancyx25]

Hi Nancy, sorry to be the bearer of bad news but the first fish pictured is not going to make it. Look close and you will see that the fish is swollen throughout the head and body. I had one do this and I was not able to save it. I think it is a massive infection in the fish. Do the eyes on the red melon seem to be swollen also?

As suggested add the salt and please lower the temp (for now). Can you remove the decorations in the tank. Idea is to make the tank as simple as possible. It is better to treat in a bare bottom tank. I think for the rest of the fish a course of pure metro is best. As Liz suggested you can get it from Jehmco or angelfishplus. Also as suggested keep the water changes small as the water seems to be the source of stress (guessing here). Lets let the fish rest until the metro arrives.
Pat

thank you so much for this! will follow your instructions but I do have a question...I have been thinking of removing the sand since my 2 plecos got bigger. they are good poopers and it would make things easy for clean up, but with this happening I put it off. should I wait until things get better to remove the sand? wouldnt it make the tank cloudy and add to the stress factor? as for the decor, i only have some rocks, 2 pieces of wood and a fake plant, absolutely no problems getting it all out, will do so first thing when lights go on!
as for the bloated fish, yup was not optimistic for him, he has been swelling up more and more each day. started with the eyes, then they got even bigger, then the belly and today the bubble next to the eyes. if he is not gone tomorrow, will probably end his suffering with clove oil :embarassed::cry:

[nancyx25]

oh, for the red melon, no she has been like this since i got her, but she does have bigger eyes than all my other fishes but then again she is also very large in size all together. she is very thick and eats a lot!

[brewmaster15]

Nancy,
I'm sorry to be late coming in on this but I was not able to get online. I want to say before anything else..
I have been reading you all for about a year but this is my first thread...I wish it could be a better one, unfortunately everything is going nuts in my tank and I am just about to give up.
Will try and keep this short, but since the more explanations I give can help better understand the situation, I am guessing this will be a long post! sorry about that!
purchased 10 discus about 10 months ago from a local breeder. all were about 4 inches and are all now close to 6 inches and were doing beatifully.
I have been a fish keeper for over 15 years and just got into discus as I felt ready for the challenge, but I guess I am failing miserably... That you are not failing miserably.You were doing a good job, trying to feed them well and changing their water frequently. 10 months and they were doing well. Don't get discouraged. Most people new to discus usually run into issues at some point. Some of us still run into them even after considering ourselves "seasoned":)

Its really hard to say what happened here that made your tank go from a joy to downer. My guess since you didn't have any issues and now have issues like bloat, internal infections, white feces and lost of appetite in many of your fish in one form or another is its bacterial as many of the others here have suggestion. It may also be complicated by a protozoan like Hexamita thats taking advantage of your fishes compromised system. I have a very strong suspicion the culprit that started this all off is food you feed.


tetra color granules
frozen blood worms once a week (did not give any this week)
frozen brine shrimp (did give it every other day this week to help constipation...)
home recipe (do not have beefheart in my area, made the recipe with beef liver and some chicken hearts among other thing) have been feeding this since day 1 of having them and they love it, but because I dont trust the chicken hearts that much I have not given any this week as I am trying to find the cause of all this.
dried flakes mostly for the tetras
repashy super foods for my plecos (cube dropped in bottom of tank at night, never saw a discus eat some)


You have substrate and were feeding an inherently messy food.... your homemade mix with liver. I know you have fed it all along but it doesn't take much to get a bacteria established.. I have tried liver in the past as a food... far too messy even in a bare bottom tank and with your water change schedule, I think it just was a perfect storm.

What to do...
1) remove all tank ornaments and structures....They hide pockets of waste
2) Normally I would say remove the sand slowly but I think you should net all the fish and either put them in buckets or another tank if you have one. Drain the original tank and remove the sand... all at once. Rinse the tank well and the filters and add the fish back. Very important, do not remove all the sand with the fish there... you could liberate some nasty substrate gas. We have had members kill their fish this way.
3) do not feed for now.
4) Use epsom salt
5) See what antibiotics you are to get... Kanamycin or maracyn 2 (minocycline) or oxytetracycline., These can be used with the metronidazole without an issue.
6) very large water changes daily, 75-80% and redose medications.
7) no UV

Being in Canada I know its hard to get medications but maybe the breeder you bought from has access?

I'm sorry if this seems alot. I am only making a best guess here based on what you told us and my experiences, and you may be able to get the same results without the tank breakdown but this is what I would do. Your fish should be okay in pails and buckets if they are aerated. You don't need to scrub the existing tank or sanitize it,, just get the sand and structures out and thoroughly clean the filter.

If you have a vet near you maybe reach out to them , the blue is probably not going to make it as Pat said, A Vet may be able to use it to narrow things down.

hth,
al

[AquaWoman]

Calm, Cool, Solid advice. Hoping for best possible outcomes for your Discus. Keep us posted if you can.
You’ll get through this!

[nancyx25]

thank you SOOOOO much brewmaster15 for this!
so this is what I have done the last 2 days. temp is down at 82 as previously suggested.
all the decorations have been removed as suggested.
I have kept the lights very low to ease the stress.
I had been feeding just a little for the ones that are still hungry and doing good but will stop as you recommend, but should I only stop feeding when I will start the metro treatment?

I will do as suggested for the sand. did not want to stard this now but I like the idea of putting the fish elsewhere as I get it out.

I completely agree with you on the homemade food. I am surprised about the liver however. I felt the chicken hearts might have been the evil in this recipe. I tried it based on other internet recipes, the fish loved it but that chicken just didnt sit well with me...but you are right about the mess it makes, never even thought about the consequences of that.

I have ordered the metro today. thank you to all who suggested jehmco, they were extremely helpful and professional. I needed bulkheads for a new tank and never dealt with that before, had tons of questions, they were great! I am guessing the metro will arrive within 5 days.
So I should also get my hands on(Kanamycin or maracyn 2 (minocycline) or oxytetracycline) and treat with the metro ?
also, I should ask this only when the meds arrive, but I have seen many people that treat with metro by adding it to the food, but since my white pooping fish are not eating, I do not think this is the best method...is adding it to the water not as effective?

I should substitute my aquarium salt with the epson salt? is the epson salt known to work better than aquarium salt?
Should I be adding salt when I start the meds or just now until treatment?

on the day I posted this, I was sad, exausted and felt so hopeless. You all have helped me in so many ways! I cant thank you enough...
I had not done a water change that night. but I did go ahead and do one yesterday, a small one of around 30% and will do this again tonight.
are the big 80% water changes only to be done during the treatment or I should start on that right now?

thank you again for your kind words, your experiences, suggestions and help! it is more appreciated than you will ever imagine!

ohhh, forgot about the blue diamond...he is still with us. I just cant get myself to do it. he did not get worse. it seems he is a little less bloated and the bubble next to his right eye seems to be gone, but I am definately not waiting on a full recovery. I think he is to far gone, and I will need to face it and go ahead with it...

[brewmaster15]

Hi Nancy,
You will want to use an antibiotic like the kanamycin or minocycline.They are more effective against bacteria than metronidazole.The metro is more an anti-protozoan medication that has some antibacterial activity. It can work synergistically with the antibiotics mentioned in some cases.
Metronidazole does work well in food but its also absorbed from the water. You will want to dose that at 250-500 mg per 10 gals water for 8-10 days.

The aquarium salt is sodium chloride. Thats good for helping a fish deal with stress and as a blocker of nitrite uptake.The epsom salt is magnesium sulphate. Its a laxative... it may help your fish pass out any junk in their digestive track.In your case I would use Epsom Salt...1 tablespoon per 10 gals usually works .

hth,
Al

[LizStreithorst]

To add to what I said, metro is very gentle on fish but the hex parasite has become very resistant to it. I would go with the higher dose and treat for at least 12 days. Many folks here go 14 days. Personally, I use 400 mg daily which, if you don't have a gram scale, works out to 1 1/2 teaspoons daily in your 125. I wish you the best luck.

[nancyx25]

To add to what I said, metro is very gentle on fish but the hex parasite has become very resistant to it. I would go with the higher dose and treat for at least 12 days. Many folks here go 14 days. Personally, I use 400 mg daily which, if you don't have a gram scale, works out to 1 1/2 teaspoons daily in your 125. I wish you the best luck.

hello Liz, meds have finally arrived and will get started on threatment tonight. I do have question about dosing...you suggest 1 1/2 teaspoons for 125 gallons. the bottle (100% metro from Jehmco) mentions to use 1 level teaspoon for 164 gallons. Is it your experience that using a bit more gives better results? I would not want to harm my fist, but if you have used it to this dosage with success I might try it as well.

also, the bottle mentions to stop treatment after 3 days if no signs of improvement. What are signs of improvement, the fish start eating again and poop is normal color within 3 days? that fast?!!

One question, should the temp be keep at 82 throughout the hole threatment or should I increase a little after a few days?

thanks so much!

[LizStreithorst]

I spoke to the folks at Jhemco about dosage back when I ordered. The dose on the label is the low dose. I learned here that the parasite has become resistant to metro and that I should treat at 400 mg. per 10 gallons and asked them to convert to spoons-full for me because I don't have a gram scale that goes down to milligrams and if I did, numbers make my head swim unless I can count them on my fingers. (I'm not that bad, but close) Many people here go with an even higher dose and treat for 14 days, but what I do has worked for me. It could be that 3 days works for some fish but IME it does not work for Discus. If you see no improvement after 3 days don't worry. Keep treating while doing the largest WCs that you can manage. (out with the bad water, in with good fresh water does wonders.

If your problem is hex alone crank up to the temp to 90 if you can. If you are dealing with a bacterial infection as well, keep the temp at 82. High temps make bacterial infections happy. High temps are hard on Hex. If you raise the temp, crank up the air, as well. High temps deplete the dissolved oxygen in the water.

I've covered everything I can think of. If you still have questions please ask. If I don't know the answer, others who have been in the Discus hobby since time began will know. Try not to worry. You'll get this licked.

[nancyx25]

wow thanks so much! this is more than enough explanations, I am good to go! thank you again :angel:. will keep you guys posted in a a week or so.

[Pices]

Just wanted to wish you luck Nancy. I’ve been there and i know how disheartening it can be. Best wishes for a good outcome and kudos to you for not giving up without a fight! I like your spirit!
Patty

[nancyx25]

well I guess the worst is over...
the blue diamond died the next morning of my last post.
the tank went barebottom with less decorations and boy am I happy i did that! it is incredible the amount of crap I vacuum out now.
I went on to do a metro treatment. after just 2 days of it, the red melon started eating again and had normal color feces but her behavior wasnt 100%. the 2 blue turquoise, one male one female, showed no improvement.
after about 5 days in treatment, i remembered i had a 55 gallon in the basement waiting to be resealed, so I did just that, cleaned it out and set it up with a cycled sponge filter. good! now I have a hospital tank and can continue on treating the 2 sick fish instead of the entire tank.
so the 2 sick fish and the red melon went into the hospital tank. figured the red melon could only benefit from the full treatment. I did a 14 day metro treatment with the last 6 days with added kanamycin. the male blue turquoise did get his appetite back and I was so relieved. after about 10 days on metro his poop also got back to normal but the female just kept degrading. unfortunately, she ended up passing near the end of treatment. I think she was just to weak for this big treatment. she had not taken anything to eat for almost 3 weeks.

so the red melon and blue turquoise are still in the 55 gallon. the red melon is perfect. doing very well. the blue guy has a good appetite but is still dark in color and very thin. I have been going crazy on trying to find different foods for him to gain weight and that he would love to eat. he is a bit picky right now...I have stopped giving my home recipe since this all happened and am trying to source out beef heart but was thinking on trying beefheart pellets int he meantime. If anyone has any info on that I am all ears!, the good the bad...for now I give them freeze dried australian black worms, frozen brine shrimp, tetra color pellets, some blood worms and flake food just to see what they will eat. the blue guy nibbles on everything but really doesnt pig out on anything as if nothing is to his liling. he went nuts at the black worms at first as I had never given them that but he is past it now!

so in conclusion, I lost 3 beautiful fish but gained so much knowledge. I have also had many MANY conversations with my city to have all the info I can in regards with my municipal water, but that's a hole other subject!

thanks so much to everyone here, I could not have made it without you, you helped out in many more ways than you know! :heart2:

[Paul Sabucchi]

Glad to hear that one way or the other you are coming out of a distressing situation. What are your plans for all your current fish?

[nancyx25]

well my 120 now has less fish. the 3 that passed away and the 2 that are in hospital tank. that witht the fact that the tank is now barebottom, that I do not feed my homemade recipe anymore until I can find beefheart, I also feed a lot less and do bigger water changes now, I think I am going in a much safer direction! the remaining fish are doing extremely good. I have 3 red maps that are getting HUGE by the minute! the big boss man is geting close to 7 inches!
As for the 2 fish in HT, I am waiting for the blue turquoise to gain a of weight back and return to his regular color before I put him back in the comunity tank. The red melon with him is in pefect shape but I prefer not to leave the blue guy alone...I feel he would take more to recover alone and be more stressed but maybe I am doing this wrong ?...
In all my years of having fish I have NEVER had to medicate. Don't know if I am just lucky but never encountered any ick, or any disease. I sometimes have a small fish die without notice and that always stesses me out but have never been faced with an entire tank showing disease or fungus ar anything like that, so this was all new to me!

[nancyx25]

OHHHHH MY GOODNESSSS!!!! I just realized something...Brewmaster15, as in Al, as in, THE Al featured in a Joey Mullen video as you give a seminar on keeping discus? I have watched that video too many times to count, took notes, rewatched again, and again!! lollll I love that video, so full of info and very helpful, and here you helped me yet again with my issue. THANK YOU SO MUCH!!!! thank you thank you!

[Pices]

Speaking of Al, when I had a similar picky eater, he recommended live brine and they all ate it up. I get it every few weeks now and they gorge themselves. I have a tiny net, I scoop them up, give it a little rinse and they love them.
Patty

[nancyx25]

Speaking of Al, when I had a similar picky eater, he recommended live brine and they all ate it up. I get it every few weeks now and they gorge themselves. I have a tiny net, I scoop them up, give it a little rinse and they love them.
Patty

that's a good idea. will look into a hatchery set up. i like this better than worms I must say! I was also thinking about cherry shrimp, started another post on that in the food section. would really love to have some live stuff to feed them with.

[brewmaster15]

OHHHHH MY GOODNESSSS!!!! I just realized something...Brewmaster15, as in Al, as in, THE Al featured in a Joey Mullen video as you give a seminar on keeping discus? I have watched that video too many times to count, took notes, rewatched again, and again!! lollll I love that video, so full of info and very helpful, and here you helped me yet again with my issue. THANK YOU SO MUCH!!!! thank you thank you!

(embarassed : Als Blushing ) You are welcome Nancy.Im glad that you enjoyed the talk and got some information from it.:)
al