Anyone know about HMFs?

[LizStreithorst]

I've been reading and YouTubeing around and the consensus is that they only work for smaller tanks because there isn't enough water flow for large tanks. I want to put one in a 120 (I already have the foam). I don't see why I can add more lift tubes. My air pump from Jehmco produces air galore. Am I thinking right or am I mistaken?

[Adam S]

You're thinking right about the lift tubes, but HMF's can be used on any size tank. Do you have the fancy Jetlifters/airstone and PVC/something else?

Best flow rate depends on foam dimensions and porosity. Turnover rate for fine foam shouldn't be much more than 1 to 2.5 times per hour and coarse no more than 4 to 5. Post the foam dimensions, and I can run them through a flow calculator if you'd like.

[LizStreithorst]

Thanks, Adam. The foam is large pore 17x17x3. I don't know if the information from the flow calculator will help me because I don't know how to figure out how to measure low rate per hour. Do I get a gallon jug and see how fast it fills in a minute and multiply by 60?

[Adam S]

150 to 300 gph. What type of lift tubes do you have? No need to fill jugs!

[LizStreithorst]

I was going to make my own from 1/2" PVC.

[Adam S]

Should be about 30-40 gph with good air flow, so I'd use three. No big deal if the total gph ends up under 150, just more time for the filter to do its magic.

[LizStreithorst]

Dang. I had a feeling that 3 would be the right number but I hate just going with my feelings.

[Cove Beach]

SwissTropicals has large size jetlifters that will work great. I got to meet the owner at a local cichlid show,and he was doing demos of HMFs.

[LizStreithorst]

To me a project like this is fun and easy. And it is so much cheaper.

[fljones3]

SwissTropicals has large size jetlifters that will work great. I got to meet the owner at a local cichlid show,and he was doing demos of HMFs.

I just ordered from them. They were very helpful and promptly answered all my questions via email.

[LizStreithorst]

I'm sure that they excellent in every, but I'm broke. I spend all my money on my animals. It's shameful, but I don't care.

I was just poking around on line and found this. It would be great if this would work as a filter for our fish. I know that they say that it hasn't been tested in aquariums, but I'm willing to try it. I contacted them. I asked if it had been flame retardants and a list of other toxins. If they say it doesn't I'm going try to talk them into to cut me a small piece so I could find out for myself. What a fun experiment.
https://www.foambymail.com/SFF-/speaker-filter-foam-30-ppi.html

[fljones3]

No slam on not ordering them, Liz. I certainly understand broke.

[LizStreithorst]

Nick from Foam by Mail answered my email first thing this morning. I think I'm going to give the stuff a try. First, I have a couple of questions for you guys. A half a sheet from these guys will do 2 of my 60 gallon wide tanks with none left over! But the largest thickness it comes in is 2". Is that thick enough for a 36X24 tank? If not is there any reason I couldn't put a 2" and a 1" sheet together? Also, normal open pore foam isn't as good as reticulated open pore, right? Is it good enough?

This is what Nick said:
Hi Mary,

To the best of my knowledge, the foam has not been exposed to the substances you listed. I have included a Material Data Sheet that covers all of our Polyurethane products, including the Speaker/Filter Foam for your reference, in case that is helpful! I believe the warning is on there simply because the foam was never tested in a fish tank filter capacity, and we do understand that fish tank environments can be sensitive to a variety of substances.

Speaker/Filter Foam: https://www.foambymail.com/SFF-/speaker-filter-foam-30-ppi.html

Physical data sheets: https://www.foambymail.com/speaker-filter-foam-sheet-30-ppi.html

[JamesW]

Hi Liz,

The basic description, reticulated polyether polyurethane foam is the same between the two. I'd include about an inch or so of 'squeeze' on the long dimension to help hold the foam in place. To help hold the foam in place you could add a couple of little glass tabs siliconed to the bottom of the tank. To remove additives you could run a bleach or oxi-clean solution if you are concerned. If the foam is suitable for long-term use it should stand up to 24h of either treatment and is something I would do if I were using non-aquarium foam.

[LizStreithorst]

That is great info, James. Thank you so much ;)

[Adam S]

You can glue a 1" sheet to a 2" sheet with silicone, but 2" should be fine. You might have to secure it with with PVC, which is easy to do with a heat gun. I can upload a picture later when I get home. Make sure to cut it an extra 1/2"+ wider than the tank for a snug fit.

The foam you linked looks A+. Reticulated just refers to the structure and means basically the same thing as open pore/cell. The bit that separates good foam from eh foam is the material: polyether (good) vs. polyester (eh). Think of normal hydro sponges (ester) vs. Pro hydro sponges (ether).

[LizStreithorst]

You guys know things that I would never know in a million years. Thank God for the smart people on Simply.

Adam, Your shrimp and plants are doing great. I know I have thanked you in PM's but never in the open forum. Thank you, thank you, thank you! I want to do a little more rearranging before I post pics, but the tank should be ready for prime time later today.

[brady]

Liz on their mat. data sheet for the speaker foam they say no fire retardant.
Jay

[LizStreithorst]

I saw that.

[Adam S]

You guys know things that I would never know in a million years. Thank God for the smart people on Simply.

Adam, Your shrimp and plants are doing great. I know I have thanked you in PM's but never in the open forum. Thank you, thank you, thank you! I want to do a little more rearranging before I post pics, but the tank should be ready for prime time later today.
Anytime, Liz. I wanted to send along some other green stuff, but shipping boxes lose too much space to heat packs this time of year. Have (lots of) patience with those Bolbitis clippings, and they'll eventually grow wider than and out of a 55 gallon. They'll like your water way better than mine.

[LizStreithorst]

I'm in no rush, Adam. The plants are all healthy and it's fun to watch things develop.

My half sheet of foam will arrive tomorrow. Gold old FedEx got it here a day early.

[RogueDiscus]

Is there something special about the construction of the foam for the HMF's? Or better, what kind of foam do you want to buy for filtrations? You can buy foam sheets lots of places, but I'm thinking not all allow flow through them.

[LizStreithorst]

It must be open pore, not treated with fire retardants or anything other toxic thing, and 2" to 3" thick depending on the width of the tank.

[Adam S]

To add on to what Liz said: polyether (water resistant), rigid (some better than others even if made of the same material), and generally 20-30ppi.

[LizStreithorst]

Do NOT use this foam! It's toxic to fish!!!!! I didn't loose any only because I was watching carefully.

[Swedgin]

There are loads of aquarium filter foams on amazon, also reasonably priced from what I can tell. Did you look into these?

[fljones3]

Do NOT use this foam! It's toxic to fish!!!!! I didn't loose any only because I was watching carefully.

I’m glad you were watching. Must not take long.

[LizStreithorst]

It did not take long, Frank. It was pretty scary.

Tobi, I did look. None of them are as large as I need for my big tanks.

[Paul Sabucchi]

Maybe you can try to contact these guys
http://www.newenglandfoam.com/filter.html
Or you could look at foam pads for pond filters, they tend to be big and fish safe

[LizStreithorst]

Newenglandfoam.com might work. They sell polyether foam and say that they make foam for aquaculture. They don't state the thickness of their foam. I'll have to phone them to find out more. First, I need to get over the stress of this. I did loose some fish after all. As soon as I saw that they were ill I dumped them into a tank with clean water. At first they seemed to recover, but when I checked later, all but 2 were dead and I don't hold out a lot of hope for them.

[fljones3]

Newenglandfoam.com might work. They sell polyether foam and say that they make foam for aquaculture. They don't state the thickness of their foam. I'll have to phone them to find out more. First, I need to get over the stress of this. I did loose some fish after all. As soon as I saw that they were ill I dumped them into a tank with clean water. At first they seemed to recover, but when I checked later, all but 2 were dead and I don't hold out a lot of hope for them.

Sorry for that ... I was hopeful based on your previous post.

[LizStreithorst]

At least I can take consolation in knowing that I saved you from a disaster.

[LizStreithorst]

I'm not going to mess around with trying to save money. I just ordered a 39X39X3" sheet of Poret I can't afford it, but I'll get depressed every time I go to the fish room if I don't end this project on a good note.

I lost all the fish that I talked about earlier. Also, I cut a section of foam for my 120 wide. The foam was in the tank just long for me to figure out that it was too flexible for that width tank. When I next looked, the 15 adult adult Angles in that tank were huddled in a corner with their heads up. I did a 90% WC and they seemed fine. Next time I looked they were doing the same so I gave them another 90%. I just looked again. A few look close to normal, the jury is still out on the rest of them. My pet 17 year old common pleco will be fine. I have to go down very soon to do WC on the Discus tanks. I'm not looking forward to going down there again. Actually, I dread it.

The entire disaster was all my own fault. I got way too excited because I felt sure this would work that I wasn't being careful. The hard lessons are the lessons that stick. I hope I've learned a lesson from this debacle.

I did some digging and found this out on the Swiss Tropicals site I bet that this is what killed my fish.

[fljones3]

I'm not going to mess around with trying to save money. I just ordered a 39X39X3" sheet of Poret I can't afford it, but I'll get depressed every time I go to the fish room if I don't end this project on a good note.

I lost all the fish that I talked about earlier. Also, I cut a section of foam for my 120 wide. The foam was in the tank just long for me to figure out that it was too flexible for that width tank. When I next looked, the 15 adult adult Angles in that tank were huddled in a corner with their heads up. I did a 90% WC and they seemed fine. Next time I looked they were doing the same so I gave them another 90%. I just looked again. A few look close to normal, the jury is still out on the rest of them. My pet 17 year old common pleco will be fine. I have to go down very soon to do WC on the Discus tanks. I'm not looking forward to going down there again. Actually, I dread it.

The entire disaster was all my own fault. I got way too excited because I felt sure this would work that I wasn't being careful. The hard lessons are the lessons that stick. I hope I've learned a lesson from this debacle.

I did some digging and found this out on the Swiss Tropicals site I bet that this is what killed my fish.

Liz, what did you find out? I am glad you found what you needed from a reliable source.

I read your comments with a sick feeling in my stomach. I hope we hear a good report when you went back down.

[brewmaster15]

Bummer on the lost fish Liz.:( I know these accidents happen to us all from time to time... Its part of the learning curve with fish keeping. Everytime I think I am well up on the curve something happens that makes he realize I am still learning.:) Hang in there.

al

[JamesW]

I'd be interested in knowing what you found out from Swiss Tropicals and what caused the toxicity?