Al's Wild F1 Growouts

[Second Hand Pat]

Some of you may know that back in 2016 I had a incident with my parents where myself and my husband had to provide 24/7 care for my parents for about five weeks. Things finally settled and I found a part-time caregiver to help with my parents. During the five weeks my wilds got little to no care. I decided to rehome all my wilds and Al was agreeable to taking them. Ryan came over and helped me pack the fish and sent them to Al via air cargo.

Roll forward to 2019 and two of the wild blues (or Cuipeua from Mark Chen) decided to spawn for Al. Here's Al's thread on the wild spawn http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?134705-Wild-Spawn-so-happy!&highlight=wild. I could not resist asking Al if he might consider parting with a few of the fry and he said yes. Today I received those fry and I am so excited about it. It is sort of like getting some of my own fish back. :D:D

So here they are. They were tanked about 10am this morning and I left them alone for a while. I added some of the flake Al sent but they are not quite ready to venture from the sponge. I decided to grind some of Al's FDBWs into fines (or dust) and tempt the fry to eat with that. The fines sort of mimic live food and it is sort of working.


http://youtu.be/OMNp963VRKY

[LizStreithorst]

I'm so happy for you, Pat. I can't wait for up dates as these little ones to grow. I hatch BBS for little guys like that. I know it's not really necessary, but they go for it in a big way.

[kilnakorr]

That's great!
It's adorable seeing them in a circle under the sponge going for a worm and the back under the sponge.

[Second Hand Pat]

I'm so happy for you, Pat. I can't wait for up dates as these little ones to grow. I hatch BBS for little guys like that. I know it's not really necessary, but they go for it in a big way.

Thank you Liz :D I happen to have the BBS hatchery going and should have some BBS ready mid-morning or so. Most of the fry appear to be eating the fines now. A little braver now then in the earlier video. Al has weaned them off BBS but I bet they will still take it.
Pat

[Second Hand Pat]

That's great!
It's adorable seeing them in a circle under the sponge going for a worm and the back under the sponge.

Thanks Casper, they are just plain cute lol
Pat

[jeep]

I'm drooling just s bit!

[Second Hand Pat]

I'm drooling just s bit!

Thanks Brian :)

The little guys are getting a bit more comfortable. They are coming to the front of the glass but still moving at a big mass of fish. There are little poops on the bottom so definitely eating :D.
Pat

[Swedgin]

Wow, that’s great Pat.

[Second Hand Pat]

Wow, that’s great Pat.

Thanks Tobi :D
Pat

[danotaylor]

Awesome Pat. How cool you get to raise some of your grandchildren, lol. Not what most grandparents want of course, but in this context it pretty dang sweet!! Haha.
Looking forward to seeing how they turn out mate :D

[Filip]

Good luck with your new growout group Pat .I can only imagine your excitement , having a new project ahead of you .

[Pices]

That is so cool! I’m curious Pat; are these the babies of the discus in your quote pic or Avatar pic? I’ll be watching this thread with everyone else. Exciting stuff!
Patty

[Second Hand Pat]

Good luck with your new growout group Pat .I can only imagine your excitement , having a new project ahead of you .

Thank you Filip, I am very exciting to have those little guys and really thankful to Al for being willing to part with a few of them. :)
Pat

[Second Hand Pat]

Awesome Pat. How cool you get to raise some of your grandchildren, lol. Not what most grandparents want of course, but in this context it pretty dang sweet!! Haha.
Looking forward to seeing how they turn out mate :D

Haha true Danny, most grandparents want to return the grandkids after a short while but not me lol :D
Pat

[Second Hand Pat]

That is so cool! I’m curious Pat; are these the babies of the discus in your quote pic or Avatar pic? I’ll be watching this thread with everyone else. Exciting stuff!
Patty

Hi Patty, the mom is not the fish in my avatar but the mom is from the same group of fish. Perhaps I should try and find her in my old pics or videos. I remember the dad however.
Pat

[Second Hand Pat]

So the little guys did well yesterday. I feed BBS, the flake food Al sent, FDBWs grind into fines (or dust) and BH flake. I did the first mistake a newbie makes and feed to much food but cleaned it all up with a huge water change. They are getting pretty friendly but still run for the bottom of the sponge filter with a wrong move from me.

Based on Al's thread I am guessing these guys are about 2.5 months old. Being the fry of wild fish they will be smaller then domestics of the same age. Both Al and I have both observed this with previous wild spawns. For folks not familiar with my history with wild fish I have both wild greens and wild blues spawn for me and I have raised with fry. Here's a picture of one of the little guy for reference. Not a great pic, looks better on the iphone lol.

123656

[Second Hand Pat]

http://youtu.be/IJ1lnptGu2k

[Filip]

All out and munching their BBS :) . So much for the sponge hiding .

[brewmaster15]

They are looking very good Pat. Im glad they made it there well and have settled in for you. As a group this spawn has been extremely healthy and trouble free. Out of 150 fry I think I lost 2 at most. I am really enjoying raising this batch and my wild green x Blue snake crosses right now.

Best of luck with these guys I am sure they will thrive under your care!

Al

[Second Hand Pat]

All out and munching their BBS :) . So much for the sponge hiding .

Thank Filip, actually in the video above they were eating pre-soaked FDBW fines. They will eat BBS but do not seem to excited about it. I may try one more batch of BBS to see if I am reading these fish right.
Pat

[Second Hand Pat]

They are looking very good Pat. Im glad they made it there well and have settled in for you. As a group this spawn has been extremely healthy and trouble free. Out of 150 fry I think I lost 2 at most. I am really enjoying raising this batch and my wild green x Blue snake crosses right now.

Best of luck with these guys I am sure they will thrive under your care!

Al

Thank you Al and I am very grateful you will willing to part with a few of these little guys. :D They seem to be doing very well with great appetite. They will still hide if I bump the glass but it takes no time before they are out and around. They do tend to stay as a group even when feeding so they are not totally settled yet I suspect.
Pat

[Second Hand Pat]

I think I found pictures of both mom and dad from January of 2016.

Mom
https://live.staticflickr.com/1668/24468066361_7dcc018f8c_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/DhaeF8)DSC_5265 (https://flic.kr/p/DhaeF8) [/url]

Dad
https://live.staticflickr.com/1609/24468409301_d4f45deceb_b.jpg (https://www.flickr.com/photos/129594174@N08/)DSC_5266 (https://flic.kr/p/DhbZBT) [url=https://www.flickr.com/photos/129594174@N08/]

[fljones3]

Gorgeous

[brewmaster15]

I think I found pictures of both mom and dad from January of 2016.

Mom
https://live.staticflickr.com/1668/24468066361_7dcc018f8c_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/DhaeF8)DSC_5265 (https://flic.kr/p/DhaeF8) [/url]

Dad
https://live.staticflickr.com/1609/24468409301_d4f45deceb_b.jpg (https://www.flickr.com/photos/129594174@N08/)DSC_5266 (https://flic.kr/p/DhbZBT) [url=https://www.flickr.com/photos/129594174@N08/]

yep thats mom and dad.....mom being the one with red eyes.:)

[Second Hand Pat]

Gorgeous

Thank you Frank :D
Pat

[Second Hand Pat]

yep thats mom and dad.....mom being the one with red eyes.:)

Thanks for confirming that Al. So these fish would minimally be four years old. I get them from Mark Jan 2016 and based on size they would be at least a year old.
Pat

[Hiball1]

Those parents are sharp! Think your little guys will turn out great.

Sean

[pastry]

OMG... please if any more spawns then I'd looove to buy a few. One of my "first favorites" (if that makes sense) was just like the mom!

[Ryan]

I'm so glad Al was able to spawn these and send you some grandkids. I know you were worried about having to ship all of those out. I can't wait to see what they turn into.

[Second Hand Pat]

Those parents are sharp! Think your little guys will turn out great.

Sean

Thanks Sean, I am super happy to have these little guys and suspect they will mature out super nice :D
Pat

[Second Hand Pat]

OMG... please if any more spawns then I'd looove to buy a few. One of my "first favorites" (if that makes sense) was just like the mom!

Thank Elloit, perhaps in time. :D
Pat

[Second Hand Pat]

I'm so glad Al was able to spawn these and send you some grandkids. I know you were worried about having to ship all of those out. I can't wait to see what they turn into.

Me too Ryan :D I was super happy you helped me send the parents to Al. You are a great friend. I think these guys will turn out super nice! :D
Pat

[Pices]

I’m with Elliot. I would love a tankful of that mom fish. I was in awe first time I saw one and couldn’t stop staring at it. I’m gaga over a lot of the wilds now. I consider it my bucket list fish. At least that’s how I’m going to explain it to hubby. Ha ha
Patty

[Second Hand Pat]

I’m with Elliot. I would love a tankful of that mom fish. I was in awe first time I saw one and couldn’t stop staring at it. I’m gaga over a lot of the wilds now. I consider it my bucket list fish. At least that’s how I’m going to explain it to hubby. Ha ha
Patty

Hope you can sell that to your hubby Patty, does that mean another tank LOL
Pat

[Second Hand Pat]

These guys are doing great. I think they might have grown a bit. They are in a divided 40 breeder with one %100 WC a day (about 30 gallons). I am also vacuuming the bottom a couple times a day. They are eating pre-soaked FDBW fines.


http://youtu.be/ZuQOTlaMxpw

[pastry]

These guys are doing great. I think they might have grown a bit. They are in a divided 40 breeder with one %100 WC a day (about 30 gallons). I am also vacuuming the bottom a couple times a day. They are eating pre-soaked FDBW fines.


http://youtu.be/ZuQOTlaMxpw

Pat, I don't think you have enough space. As a friend, I will totally let you put a few in my tank if need be:antlers:

[Second Hand Pat]

Pat, I don't think you have enough space. As a friend, I will totally let you put a few in my tank if need be:antlers:

Thanks Elliot, I appreciate the "offer" lol
Pat

[Second Hand Pat]

I am almost two weeks end on these guys are they are starting to round up a bit.


http://youtu.be/A-WLki_edFE

[pastry]

Just remember Pat, my offer has no expiration date:antlers:

Seriously though, I would love to see how they develop! Please continue to take pictures! I already know you are great at uploading pictures but just really wanted to but an emphasis on this batch out of my own greed!

[Second Hand Pat]

Just remember Pat, my offer has no expiration date:antlers:

Seriously though, I would love to see how they develop! Please continue to take pictures! I already know you are great at uploading pictures but just really wanted to but an emphasis on this batch out of my own greed!

Thanks Elliot, I have raised a batch from wild F1s from the same location as the parents of these fry and I can link that thread if you like so you can see the development. Or stay tuned here! :D
Pat

[Second Hand Pat]

Three weeks in on these guys. Growing and eating :D

123838


http://youtu.be/Bw_TsAW5IGY

[Second Hand Pat]

About ten days ago I noticed that some of the F1s appears to developing oddly. It seems like the forehead was out growing the chin area giving the appearance of a parrots beak in the head area. I conferred with Brian and Al. Al suggested that perhaps I was power feeding and/or there was a deficiency in the diet. Basically too much protein and not enough carbs. Al suggested adding some veggie flakes.

So immediately I started two things, I started up the BBS machine, ordered some veggie flake and added a second daily water change. I also cut out the FDBW fines I was feeding. The fish are loving that second water change and overall the fish are looking way better. So now they are getting several feedings of flake including the veggie flake and two heavy feeding of BBS. This is from last night.


http://youtu.be/7qP6s9nZ2pg

[slicksta]

I think they look great!
Between you and Al these fish should turn out spectacular.
I look forward to your next update ;-)

[Dee1958]

Nice, how big are they

Dee

[Second Hand Pat]

I think they look great!
Between you and Al these fish should turn out spectacular.
I look forward to your next update ;-)

Thank you John, there are hints of color starting to show in the lower fins and around the gill cover.
Pat

[Second Hand Pat]

Nice, how big are they

Dee

Around two inches Dee, these guys are from a spawn of wild fish and wild F1s grow slower then domestics.
Pat

[Pices]

Catching up on this thread and this is definitely my bucket list fish. The bad news is it went over like a lead balloon with hubs. Good thing discus keepers don’t mind a challenge or two! LOL:devil:
Patty

[sanjay21]

It's so good to go over this thread.
I'm so happy that you get to raise these Pat :)

Good luck with this awesome group.

[Second Hand Pat]

Catching up on this thread and this is definitely my bucket list fish. The bad news is it went over like a lead balloon with hubs. Good thing discus keepers don’t mind a challenge or two! LOL:devil:
Patty

Thank you Patty, maybe hubs will change his mind in the future....you never know!! :D


It's so good to go over this thread.
I'm so happy that you get to raise these Pat :)

Good luck with this awesome group.

Thank you Sanjay :D :D

[Second Hand Pat]

Introduced a new food. Interesting response from the kids.


http://youtu.be/_fm-NJ2K6fo

[slicksta]

Al spoiled them...he probably fed them some of Paul's recipes... lol
And I think we are soon to be cousins. . . ��

[Second Hand Pat]

Al spoiled them...he probably fed them some of Paul's recipes... lol
And I think we are soon to be cousins. . . ��

I thought their response was hilarious John. They did pick thru it but do not think I will feed it again to these guys. Might see if the heckels like it.
Pat

[slicksta]

What was it you were trying to get them to accept?
When I try to introduce new food I skip the last meal of the day and feed it sparingly as the first meal the next day.
Sometimes it takes a few days of doing this to get them on board.... And then sometimes they never accept it at all.

[Second Hand Pat]

What was it you were trying to get them to accept?
When I try to introduce new food I skip the last meal of the day and feed it sparingly as the first meal the next day.
Sometimes it takes a few days of doing this to get them on board.... And then sometimes they never accept it at all.

It was a frozen omnivore based food but the sizes were too large for the fish. I throw it in just to see what they would do with it. :D
Pat

[slicksta]

Had to reread this thread... I just think it's awesome.
Love your strategy and it's good to see them developing nicely

[Second Hand Pat]

Thanks John :D

Here a video from today. I moved them up a tank (same size) so I could keep a better eye on them. They are eating a thinly sliced FDBW cube. They are loving it. I am not quite ready to add this is a stable yet. Want to make sure they are pass the parrot head stage. I think these guys have tripled in size since I got them.


http://youtu.be/bnY5Q9N3p0Q

[slicksta]

Now that's some Rock ń Roll Wilds!!!

[Second Hand Pat]

Now that's some Rock ń Roll Wilds!!!

Thanks John :D
Pat

[peewee1]

Because the thread began in April rather than read all of those 4 pages I fast forwarded to now. So forgive if the answer to my question is there. I began raising and breeding discus with wild. Went from the hobby for years only to come back when a long time breeder gave to me a complete set up and recommended Kenny to me. One of those Kenny's is a Stripe Alenquer that I would like to pair with a wild. Question is who is now selling 4 to 5 inch wilds which could be shipped after August?

[slicksta]

Don't know about the August time restriction but Gabe over at Wattleydiscus.com has them on sale until July 7

Recent email
John, we are extending our discount on all of our wilds with a 10% off Coupon. We are also including a can of Tropical Wild Discus Food!
They are 10% off until Midnight July 7th .
Just use the code:
WILDWATTLEY10%

https://wattleydiscus.com/product-category/fish/wild-discus-for-sale-from-the-amazon/?utm_source=Jack+Wattley+Discus+Newsletter&utm_campaign=75dfc4005e-Wild_at_Wattley7_7_2017_COPY_01&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_3235bbc8b6-75dfc4005e-225455513

[Second Hand Pat]

Because the thread began in April rather than read all of those 4 pages I fast forwarded to now. So forgive if the answer to my question is there. I began raising and breeding discus with wild. Went from the hobby for years only to come back when a long time breeder gave to me a complete set up and recommended Kenny to me. One of those Kenny's is a Stripe Alenquer that I would like to pair with a wild. Question is who is now selling 4 to 5 inch wilds which could be shipped after August?


Don't know about the August time restriction but Gabe over at Wattleydiscus.com has them on sale until July 7

Recent email
John, we are extending our discount on all of our wilds with a 10% off Coupon. We are also including a can of Tropical Wild Discus Food!
They are 10% off until Midnight July 7th .
Just use the code:
WILDWATTLEY10%

https://wattleydiscus.com/product-category/fish/wild-discus-for-sale-from-the-amazon/?utm_source=Jack+Wattley+Discus+Newsletter&utm_campaign=75dfc4005e-Wild_at_Wattley7_7_2017_COPY_01&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_3235bbc8b6-75dfc4005e-225455513

Hi peewee, besides John's mention of Wattley above there is also Jimmy's Discus on FB who might have something left. Might be best to wait until the next wilds season starting in October of this year.
Pat

[peewee1]

Thanks, Slick. I will look into this and Pat made a good point about the October season. So thanks to you both for your knowledge and advises.

[slicksta]

No problem peewee
Full disclosure... I've never purchased wild discus from Gabe but I have gotten Tetras, Cory and bristlenose from him and he was very nice to work with.
He has a few videos out there and did take time to talk to me on the phone
Good luck and we look forward to your update later in the year

[Second Hand Pat]

Here's a video of the F1s this morning before a WC. They are doing great..


http://youtu.be/8BT6hQC-ffA

[peewee1]

Pat, if a tank spawned wild offspring are bred with other wild tank spawned wild offspring over several generations are those offspring still considered to be "wilds"?

[Second Hand Pat]

Pat, if a tank spawned wild offspring are bred with other wild tank spawned wild offspring over several generations are those offspring still considered to be "wilds"?

Peewee, what would you call them. I only make an exception for F1s. After that they are just Cuipeua F2s. You may called them whatever you want. lol
Pat

[Second Hand Pat]

I have had these guys about three months now and here is how they look the first week.


http://youtu.be/IJ1lnptGu2k

After three months they look like this. Slow growing as Al predicated but a solid 2.5 inches now.


http://youtu.be/GmZF_9D9_Kk

[Second Hand Pat]

I broke down and bought these guys some live blackworms and the group sizewise is between 2.5 to 3 inches. Starting to see blue striations forming for the foreheads and a hint of red in the eye.

124506


http://youtu.be/Y_GacjCyl30

[alcastro]

Black worms will put some size on them, looking good Pat

[LizStreithorst]

The one you took a close up is a very nice fish but you can still see wild characteristics. I know that they are still young that that big boy is maybe fond of a very good slightly smaller one. I can't wait to see the F2's.

[guggas]

Pat,

Can you tell a little more about feeding the live worms? Where do you buy them from, and do you treat them somehow before feeding?

Thanks

[Second Hand Pat]

Black worms will put some size on them, looking good Pat

Thanks Al and why I decided to try live blackworms again...for the growth aspect.
Pat

[Second Hand Pat]

The one you took a close up is a very nice fish but you can still see wild characteristics. I know that they are still young that that big boy is maybe fond of a very good slightly smaller one. I can't wait to see the F2's.

Thanks Liz, me too. :D First lets get these guys up to breeding size. I wonder if they will breed earlier then their wild parents i.e. before two years of age.
Pat

[Second Hand Pat]

Pat,

Can you tell a little more about feeding the live worms? Where do you buy them from, and do you treat them somehow before feeding?

Thanks

Hi Ryan, the fish love live blackworms and grow well. However there is a risk with feeding any live aquatic food as it can in unwanted stuff and many folks have swore off blackworms when they did run into issues. I know that Al does not feed any live foods due to the risk.

There are two sources for live blackworms, California blackworms and Eastern Aquatics. It is not cheap food and best to be at the house with the worms arrive so they did not sit in the heat this time of year. Worms are shipped with a cold pack. The worms need to be kept clean and in the frig. I keep mine in a large tupperware in a half inch of water (thank you Brian). You can buy worm keepers. The worms come with friends, leeches and the white things you can see in the video in post 68. I siphon those out after the fish scatter the worms with a small diameter hose into a bucket. It is very important to keep the water the worms are in clean and cold. I rinse the worms at least twice a day. If you have a spouse who do not like the thought of the worms in the frig, get a mini-frig for the worms.
hths,
Pat

[slicksta]

Worms in my fridge give me the "che schifo".. What if there's a jailbreak?!?!

California Blackworms also have Blackworm flake and pellets which are readily accepted by all my fish.
I find these to be even better than Freezedried which are a hassle to feed and sometimes cause head standing no matter how much you presoak

For me this is a much better option... and at a lower cost with no additional work or risk.

[Second Hand Pat]

Worms in my fridge give me the "che schifo".. What if there's a jailbreak?!?!

California Blackworms also have Blackworm flake and pellets which are readily accepted by all my fish.
I find these to be even better than Freezedried which are a hassle to feed and sometimes cause head standing no matter how much you presoak

For me this is a much better option... and at a lower cost with no additional work or risk.

John, I have never had "head standing" issues feeding Al's freeze dried blackworms and the only time I have soaked them was when feeding fines to small fry. As to feeding the live blackworms I have already stated why I am doing that. To each their own. :)

Personally I am looking forward to the next couple months with these F1s. Some large changes coming soon I think :D
Pat

[slicksta]

John, I have never had "head standing" issues feeding Al's freeze dried blackworms and the only time I have soaked them was when feeding fines to small fry. As to feeding the live blackworms I have already stated why I am doing that. To each their own. :)

Personally I am looking forward to the next couple months with these F1s. Some large changes coming soon I think :D
Pat

I'm sure your fish appreciate the extra effort it takes to feed live food. ��

As for the headstanding with Freezedried it seems to only affect certain fish and only last an hour or two after feeding. I found it helps to feed a little flake and pellet before and after. I've seen this many times and with FD Bloodworms as well... which I stopped feeding years ago because of this.
I soak because it seems to help with the headstanding and I just don't think a fishes digestive system is prepared for foods so void of moisture.

[Second Hand Pat]

I'm sure your fish appreciate the extra effort it takes to feed live food. ��

As for the headstanding with Freezedried it seems to only affect certain fish and only last an hour or two after feeding. I found it helps to feed a little flake and pellet before and after. I've seen this many times and with FD Bloodworms as well... which I stopped feeding years ago because of this.
I soak because it seems to help with the headstanding and I just don't think a fishes digestive system is prepared for foods so void of moisture.

Hmmm, I do not really hear about head standing in relation to feeding freeze dried foods John. Perhaps there is something unique about your particular situation. :)
Pat

[slicksta]

Perhaps, but I wouldn't know how else to explain it.
Additionally, maybe I'm using "headstand" in other than the typical manner.
I'd say in 15 years I've seen it about a 20 times, usually affecting the same fish in a particular group and only witnessed after feeding freeze dried worms . Within 30 minutes of feeding the fish will point its nose about 45° downward and seem to do a bob in place. It can swim normally around the tank, but when stationary it will revert back to the nose_down bobbing. This will last up to two hours and then the fish will be perfectly normal again.
This has only been witnessed after feeding freeze dried worms. After taking the precautions of a long soaking and pre and post feeding other foods it happens with much less frequency and less server in those rare occurrences
I haven't witnessed it with Al's fdblkw, but I have with California fdblkw and SanFran fdbldw

[Second Hand Pat]

Perhaps, but I wouldn't know how else to explain it.
Additionally, maybe I'm using "headstand" in other than the typical manner.
I'd say in 15 years I've seen it about a 20 times, usually affecting the same fish in a particular group and only witnessed after feeding freeze dried worms . Within 30 minutes of feeding the fish will point its nose about 45° downward and seem to do a bob in place. It can swim normally around the tank, but when stationary it will revert back to the nose_down bobbing. This will last up to two hours and then the fish will be perfectly normal again.
This has only been witnessed after feeding freeze dried worms. After taking the precautions of a long soaking and pre and post feeding other foods it happens with much less frequency and less server in those rare occurrences
I haven't witnessed it with Al's fdblkw, but I have with California fdblkw and SanFran fdbldw

The few times I have ordered California FDBWs (quite a while ago) I have noted that they are larger then Al's so maybe that is the difference. To me when a fish points it's head downward it is uncomfortable. I do not worry about it unless it continues for a day or more.
Pat

[slicksta]

The few times I have ordered California FDBWs (quite a while ago) I have noted that they are larger then Al's so maybe that is the difference. To me when a fish points it's head downward it is uncomfortable. I do not worry about it unless it continues for a day or more.
Pat

I agree, and that's the impression that I get....That the fish is uncomfortable from eating the worms. Like a Thanksgiving feeling. :-D
I've never lost a fish over it or worry as I now know how to counter act it. That said, why make them uncomfortable?
After the recent discovery of the Blackworm pellets and flake... I think I am done with Freezedried after this batch.

I'd add to the previous post that it seemed to affect the larger more aggressive eaters... Leading me to think that the fish that got more than their share paid the price.

[LizStreithorst]

I've fed freeze dried from Dan since shortly after he was offering them. Now I feed Al's. I just stick the cube on the glass. I have never ever had a fish look strange in any way, I'd I've had a lot of fish in that time.

Before that, I would feed Dan's live. I generally bought 2 lbs at a time. Often I would rinse them 2 times a day for around 3 or 4 days when they looked like good healthy worms. Then I would move to once a day rinsing. Since I could get 2 lbs at a time and could afford them, I even wasted them on stupid Angelfish. I wish I could afford them now. IMO they are the most nearly perfect food I have ever fed.

[slicksta]

Hey Liz
Al's fd worms seem to be of better quality then Cali Blckwm. They don't look bleached and are darker and meatier.
And I'm sure the angels didn't think you were stupid ;-)

Pat. . . 9 bars. siblings or cousins???

[Second Hand Pat]

Guessing those are the wild green/SS crosses John. All nine bar.
Pat

[Second Hand Pat]

John, post some of the wild F1s please.
Pat

[jeep]

Yes, F1's please :p

[slicksta]

The others have 14 bars
do you see why I am confused?? :-D

[slicksta]

Ok. . .after a double feeding they are a little more relaxed. Not sure if I'm duplicating as they are still very active.
you can see Andy in the back of one of the photos. . he's eating but has made zero improvement.

[Second Hand Pat]

Hi John, so the first group of pics you posted are the wild green/snakeskin (14 bars) crosses so guessing you have four nine bar and two 14 bar. The second group are the wild F1s and they are all nine bar. Everyone is looking good.
Pat

[slicksta]

Thanks Pat
They really don't sit still for a second and it's hard to seperate them visually.

[Second Hand Pat]

Thanks Pat
They really don't sit still for a second and it's hard to seperate them visually.

John, how about a video?
Pat

[slicksta]

You sure do like your videos... Lol :-D
Let me see if I have some time tonight as the lighting is much better then. No direct light but I get a lot of reflection from my sunporch during the day.

[Second Hand Pat]

You sure do like your videos... Lol :-D
Let me see if I have some time tonight as the lighting is much better then. No direct light but I get a lot of reflection from my sunporch during the day.

Sounds good John, I think video's are easier when showing a group of fish. :D
Pat

[peewee1]

You sure do like your videos... Lol :-D
Let me see if I have some time tonight as the lighting is much better then. No direct light but I get a lot of reflection from my sunporch during the day.

Why not close in that sun porch? You would be able to cut out that reflection altogether.

[slicksta]

I don't know what you're smokin' peewee... But it's got to be good! :-D

[Second Hand Pat]

Why not close in that sun porch? You would be able to cut out that reflection altogether.


I don't know what you're smokin' peewee... But it's got to be good! :-D

I think what John is trying to say is it a sun porch for a reason. :)
Pat

[slicksta]

Yes it is.
A nice room with glass on three sides and the forth side open to my kitchen and dining room showering them with natural light.
It is my favorite room in the house :-)

[LizStreithorst]

I built a room like that but I had to put a bank of cages in front of one side. I had to turn it to a dog grooming room. It was the best place because all my stuff fits and the light is great.

[Second Hand Pat]

These F1s are growing like mad. Measured one of the larger ones today with a ruler and it was 3.5 inches. These guys are exploding with growth on live worms :D and shape wise getting quite decent.


http://youtu.be/eRuL9QCYvmU

Pat

[danotaylor]

Coming along nicely Pat. The live worms are making bank for ya there by the looks!

[Second Hand Pat]

Coming along nicely Pat. The live worms are making bank for ya there by the looks!

Definitely Danny, added nearly an inch of growth since I started feeding the live blackworms :)
Pat

[LizStreithorst]

I miss feeding live worms more than I can express. Freeze dried are excellent, but there's something about the wiggle factor that make them irresistible to the fish. The other big plus is that you absolutely cannot over feed them. The worms stay alive on the bottom of the tank and the fish can brows on them all day long.

[Second Hand Pat]

I miss feeding live worms more than I can express. Freeze dried are excellent, but there's something about the wiggle factor that make them irresistible to the fish. The other big plus is that you absolutely cannot over feed them. The worms stay alive on the bottom of the tank and the fish can brows on them all day long.

I bet you do Liz and totally "get" that. All the fish get excited when I walk into my little fishroom hopeful of live worms lol. I feed the live worms to the F1s several times a day and only what they can clean up in a few minutes. I feed other foods and want them hungry enough to eat that.
Pat

[fljones3]

Pat,

You might have answered this. What live worms do you feed? Where do you get them?
You probably raise them yourself?

Frank

[LizStreithorst]

They are blackworms. They look just like tubifex but they must be raised in pristine water, same as Discus do. The nick name for tubifex is "sewer maggots" which tells you which you should feed.

Nobody can raise them. There was one guy who had a quite elaborate set-up to raise them and he bought a ton of them. I have never heard anything. It would have been posted here on Simply years ago.

They have to be raised in man made ponds with clean water coming in and the water in the pond draining out. Dan used a river that had never failed him, but with the drought and and then the fires, he isn't raising near as many as he used to. FedEx Overnight rates have gone up which makes them even more expensive than they were several years ago.

There is another blackworm farm somewhere but I don't know anything about them.

[Second Hand Pat]

Hi Frank, Liz gave you some great information about live blackworms. You can get them from Dan (Ca blackworm) but only in small qualities. The week I started feeding live blackworm I could only get 1/4 pound (~$52 which includes shipping overnight) which I stretched into lasting a week. Brian (jeep) suggested Eastern Aquatics and I have been getting one pound every two weeks and their price is ~$63 for one pound which also includes overnight shipping. Craig at Eastern Aquatics is quite direct (almost to the point of being rude) about being home when the worms arrive. They have a live guarantee but with strict enforcement that you receive the worms at delivery time.

It is very important that the worms are kept in the frig and rinsed with clean water one or two times daily. I rinse mine every time I feed so about three times or so. If you decide to try them read up on their care. Also get aware the worms come with friends, leeches and some type of white thing.
hths
Pat

[LizStreithorst]

Pat, I looked up Eastern Aquatics web site. They look and sound excellent. Loved the pics of their ponds and the prices are within reason, considering. I can't buy anything this month except necessities but I'll see how next month looks around the 15th when it's time to tackle my bills.

[fljones3]

Thanks Pat & Liz. Excellent information. Looks a little costly. I am going to take a look.
Plus, I will probably have to buy a refrigerator for the garage. LOL!!!

I just hope my discus do not read this forum. They don’t know what they are missing!

[LizStreithorst]

They'll find out what they have been missing soon. You'll become as addicted to watch them eat as they will be eating the darned stuff.
.
Buy one of those small fridges and use it as a beer fridge, too. I have one of those but I don't mind keeping the worms in the fridge along with my food beer. It's not like they smell or crawl out.

Obviously I'm not squeamish.

[pastry]

OMG... just saw video update from yesterday. Sooo jealous! Love seeing the hints of color development. Also, I'm no card carrying discus judge but I love the shape of them! Definitely my taste. This stage (IMO) is when you see big differences if you take pics every 2 weeks for a few months since color is coming in, fins of some may get more pronounced, shape for some (presumably males) may slightly change, and the "bully" title may change 2 or 3 times.

[Second Hand Pat]

Thanks Pat & Liz. Excellent information. Looks a little costly. I am going to take a look.
Plus, I will probably have to buy a refrigerator for the garage. LOL!!!

I just hope my discus do not read this forum. They don’t know what they are missing!

Frank, my spouse bought me a tiny frig for the worm for about $70. He hates the worms in the kitchen frig.
Pat

[Second Hand Pat]

OMG... just saw video update from yesterday. Sooo jealous! Love seeing the hints of color development. Also, I'm no card carrying discus judge but I love the shape of them! Definitely my taste. This stage (IMO) is when you see big differences if you take pics every 2 weeks for a few months since color is coming in, fins of some may get more pronounced, shape for some (presumably males) may slightly change, and the "bully" title may change 2 or 3 times.

Thank Elliot and it is the start of exciting times with these little ones. They will start to develop color and soon we should be able to determine the solid ones from the striated ones. :D
Pat

[jeep]

They've come a long way in a short time in both size and shape!!

[Second Hand Pat]

They've come a long way in a short time in both size and shape!!

I appreciate your assist along the way Brian :D You have been most helpful.
Pat

[brady]

Wouldn't fdbw be just as nutritious as live and with less chance of disease
non of the hassle with cleaning,ect.?
Jay

[Second Hand Pat]

Wouldn't fdbw be just as nutritious as live and with less chance of disease
non of the hassle with cleaning,ect.?
Jay

Perhaps Jay and something I am trying now. I am on the backside of the Dorian and did not lose power so have resumed feeding fish. I ran out of live black worms yesterday and am considering the risk vs reward aspect of feeding live black worms.
Pat

[Mando]

Hi Frank, Liz gave you some great information about live blackworms. You can get them from Dan (Ca blackworm) but only in small qualities. The week I started feeding live blackworm I could only get 1/4 pound (~$52 which includes shipping overnight) which I stretched into lasting a week. Brian (jeep) suggested Eastern Aquatics and I have been getting one pound every two weeks and their price is ~$63 for one pound which also includes overnight shipping. Craig at Eastern Aquatics is quite direct (almost to the point of being rude) about being home when the worms arrive. They have a live guarantee but with strict enforcement that you receive the worms at delivery time.

It is very important that the worms are kept in the frig and rinsed with clean water one or two times daily. I rinse mine every time I feed so about three times or so. If you decide to try them read up on their care. Also get aware the worms come with friends, leeches and some type of white thing.
hths
Pat

Keep in mind that Jack Wattley sells a worm basket that makes it unbelievably easy to keep the worms clean. I'm not sure if he ships his worms, but I buy them at a really good rate.

Also, someone mentioned the pricing being too much, but 1lb of black worms is a heck of a lot of worms. Ultimately, the pricing is fair. To stretch or make it last longer, you could feed black worms once a day. I like to keep a varied diet; I do Als' fdbw in the mornings, tetra bits twice a day - mid day, frozen blood worms when I get home from work and then live black worms late at night.

[Mando]

Pat, I just read the entire thread and I'm so happy for you!

It would be lovely if, later in your growout, you could do a comparison between the f1 wilds and the domestics you just grew out. From what I saw at the beginning of this thread, f1 wilds cannot be power fed compared to the domestics? I know that wilds grow at a slower rate than domestics.

great job so far !! I love your threads.

[Second Hand Pat]

Keep in mind that Jack Wattley sells a worm basket that makes it unbelievably easy to keep the worms clean. I'm not sure if he ships his worms, but I buy them at a really good rate.

Also, someone mentioned the pricing being too much, but 1lb of black worms is a heck of a lot of worms. Ultimately, the pricing is fair. To stretch or make it last longer, you could feed black worms once a day. I like to keep a varied diet; I do Als' fdbw in the mornings, tetra bits twice a day - mid day, frozen blood worms when I get home from work and then live black worms late at night.

I have the worm keepers so no issue there. I can easily make a pound of blackworms last for two weeks. A recent conversation with a friends has me weighting the risk vs reward. More on that later.
Pat

[Second Hand Pat]

Pat, I just read the entire thread and I'm so happy for you!

It would be lovely if, later in your growout, you could do a comparison between the f1 wilds and the domestics you just grew out. From what I saw at the beginning of this thread, f1 wilds cannot be power fed compared to the domestics? I know that wilds grow at a slower rate than domestics.

great job so far !! I love your threads.

Thank you Mando and I may do that, good idea. :D
Pat

[Mando]

I have the worm keepers so no issue there. I can easily make a pound of blackworms last for two weeks. A recent conversation with a friends has me weighting the risk vs reward. More on that later.
Pat

Sorry, Pat. I did not mean to quote you. I meant to write to Frank.

[Second Hand Pat]

Sorry, Pat. I did not mean to quote you. I meant to write to Frank.

Not a problem Mando :)
Pat

[Second Hand Pat]

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[danotaylor]

Looking good Pat!!

[LizStreithorst]

Pat, in the pics they looked like striped Golds. Do they look the same if I were to see them in person? Was it a lighting thing that made them look that way?

Regardless of whether or not the color was as I saw it, I see 3 good round ones. I wonder what Al thinks of them. I know he;s got all this bad stuff going on in his life, but as the breeder he should take price in having bred them just as you should for having raised them.

[Second Hand Pat]

Looking good Pat!!

Thank you Danny :)
Pat

[Second Hand Pat]

Pat, in the pics they looked like striped Golds. Do they look the same if I were to see them in person? Was it a lighting thing that made them look that way?

Regardless of whether or not the color was as I saw it, I see 3 good round ones. I wonder what Al thinks of them. I know he;s got all this bad stuff going on in his life, but as the breeder he should take price in having bred them just as you should for having raised them.

Yes Liz, they are this beautiful golden color. If you compare them to the fish in my avatar which is a Cuipeua like the parents the color is very similar. I did not enhance the photos, this is straight out of the camera.
Pat

[Mando]

I’m a tad jealous! Amazing how they have grown in only three weeks!

[Second Hand Pat]

I’m a tad jealous! Amazing how they have grown in only three weeks!

Thank Armando, they are growing really well!
Pat

[Second Hand Pat]

I split the group of F1s into two 40 breeders last week, eight per tank. I am preparing them for a trip and doing 100% WC on each tank. I did the top tank this morning and while the water was low measured the largest of that group and it was a solid four inches with tail. I will measure the largest in the bottom tank later today. It was my intent to put the smaller ones in the lower tank and royally failed during the sorting process. Oh well.
Pat

[brewmaster15]

Pat they are coming along really nice now.. I think they are in one of those growth spurts.Separating them is going to make a huge difference.

Al

[Second Hand Pat]

Pat they are coming along really nice now.. I think they are in one of those growth spurts.Separating them is going to make a huge difference.

Al

Thanks Al, I think they are too. Separating them into multiple tanks was a play from your play your book and I thank you again :D

I measured the largest one from the lower tank during the water change and it was a tab under four inches so I a very happy camper. :)
Pat

[jeep]

I really like them! Between you and Al, you have sparked my interest in wilds ;)

[Mando]

Pat sparked my interest as well! just when I was a baby on this forum with one post, she steered me in the right direction. If it wasn't for her, I would have killed my first batch of wilds.

I think she said something like, "you're struggling with your domestics now, you are not ready for wilds." dropped mic, LOL. The fish in her signature inspired me and ever since, I fell in love with ringed wild types and domestic type.

[Second Hand Pat]

I really like them! Between you and Al, you have sparked my interest in wilds ;)

Always happy to have a convert Brian :D
Pat

[Second Hand Pat]

Pat sparked my interest as well! just when I was a baby on this forum with one post, she steered me in the right direction. If it wasn't for her, I would have killed my first batch of wilds.

I think she said something like, "you're struggling with your domestics now, you are not ready for wilds." dropped mic, LOL. The fish in her signature inspired me and ever since, I fell in love with ringed wild types and domestic type.

Glad I was able to help Armando :)
Pat

[Second Hand Pat]

So the color is really starting to develop and I am noticing a difference. In some of the F1s the striations are thicker and starting to develop in the forehead and into the shoulder area like this guy.

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and in others the striations are thinner and limited to the forehead area like the F1 in the foreground and two in the second pic. I wonder if these are hints of gender differences.

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Pat

[Mando]

Gorgeous, Pat! that would be awesome to document the possibility of gender differences in this f1 group.

[danotaylor]

Looking fabo Pat. I have never considered pattern type as a possible descriptor for gender identification. It will be interesting to see if your hypothesis pans out. Great job on getting this group to round up!

[Second Hand Pat]

Gorgeous, Pat! that would be awesome to document the possibility of gender differences in this f1 group.

My thinking on the gender differences Armando could be that the fish with the thicker striations are male and the thinner striations are female. You can see this in the parents (post 22 of this thread) We shall see as the fish mature into adulthood.
Pat

[Second Hand Pat]

Looking fabo Pat. I have never considered pattern type as a possible descriptor for gender identification. It will be interesting to see if your hypothesis pans out. Great job on getting this group to round up!

Thanks Danny, I think this is more true for wild discus then domestic discus based on my experience with wild discus.
Pat

[Mando]

If we go off of your theory, it’s funny how the “suppose” male juvie has red eyes and the females now have yellow eyes in contrast to the parents. Momma had the red eyes and dad had the yellow.

[Second Hand Pat]

If we go off of your theory, it’s funny how the “suppose” male juvie has red eyes and the females now have yellow eyes in contrast to the parents. Momma had the red eyes and dad had the yellow.

Which post show yellow eyes Armando? Note that the fish have only recently shown color in their eyes.
Pat

[Mando]

Your last photo update shows yellow/orange eyes and red eyes.
Post 137

[Second Hand Pat]

Your last photo update shows yellow/orange eyes and red eyes.
Post 137

I think we will see that these guys will develop red eyes. I have not seem any amber eyes in the group so far.
Pat

[Mando]

I think we will see that these guys will develop red eyes. I have not seem any amber eyes in the group so far.
Pat


Odd. These look amber. Could be a pixelation issue.
125064

[Second Hand Pat]

Odd. These look amber. Could be a pixelation issue.
125064

Or a calibration issue Armando. The eye appear red on the pic to me and they are certainly red in person.
Pat

[Second Hand Pat]

I took a couple videos of the F1s, one of the upper tank and the lower tank since I split the group a couple of weeks ago.

Upper tank

http://youtu.be/xtyoJvFUyMk

Lower tank - The split in the lower fins on some are where I caught the fish with the hose during a water change.

http://youtu.be/56jx5MdwlPI

[jimmyjoe]

Very nice Pat , you got some really nice grow outs working there. Jim in Ohio

[Mando]

Wow. They look awesome!

[LizStreithorst]

You are a master of growout, Pat.

[Second Hand Pat]

Very nice Pat , you got some really nice grow outs working there. Jim in Ohio

Thank you Jim :D
Pat

[Second Hand Pat]

Wow. They look awesome!

Thank you Armando :D
Pat

[Second Hand Pat]

You are a master of growout, Pat.

Thank you Liz but I have had plenty of hiccups from fry. Nowhere near the masters Al and Brian are but I am practicing every day lol. Thank you for the vote of confidence.
Pat

[pastry]

I'll take any of those hiccups you don't want, Pat ;)

[Second Hand Pat]

Growing and coloring up. These guys range from 4 to 4.5 inches


http://youtu.be/Ub0sctZnRks

[danotaylor]

Looking great Pat!!

[Second Hand Pat]

Looking great Pat!!

Thank you Danny :D
Pat

[Second Hand Pat]

Some photos showing some of the color development in these F1s.

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[Eddie]

These look awesome Pat! Great stuff

[Mando]

last photo made me laugh a bit. I started playing the jaws theme song in my head.

[Second Hand Pat]

These look awesome Pat! Great stuff

Thank you Eddie :D Nice to see you back.
Pat

[Second Hand Pat]

last photo made me laugh a bit. I started playing the jaws theme song in my head.

They love their live worms Armando :)
Pat

[DiscusDish]

Beautiful. :)

[Second Hand Pat]

Beautiful. :)

Thanks Matt :)
Pat

[Second Hand Pat]

These guys are coming up on ten months of age. They are growing nicely. See what you think?
Pat


http://youtu.be/cXXpcA1aWM0

[danotaylor]

They look amazing Pat!

[Second Hand Pat]

They look amazing Pat!

Thanks Danny :D

I realized that these F1s are growing at a uniform rate and all between 4 to 4.5 inches. No runts so far.
Pat

[Mando]

They are growing nicely and look pretty chunky!

[Second Hand Pat]

They are growing nicely and look pretty chunky!

Thanks Armando, Al thinks they are chunky also.
Pat

[DiscusDish]

Beautiful Pat. Are you going to be selling these guys? If so, would you be able to ship to Canada? And how much would it be? I’m not planning on getting any yet but maybe in the future. These guys are gorgeous. :)

[Second Hand Pat]

Beautiful Pat. Are you going to be selling these guys? If so, would you be able to ship to Canada? And how much would it be? I’m not planning on getting any yet but maybe in the future. These guys are gorgeous. :)

Hi Matt and thank you. I am simply growing them out of now to see what I end up with. I have no idea on how to ship. :)
Pat

[bluelagoon]

Beautiful Pat. Are you going to be selling these guys? If so, would you be able to ship to Canada? And how much would it be? I’m not planning on getting any yet but maybe in the future. These guys are gorgeous. :)

I don't think it's that easy to get them shipped across the boarder. You will have to get them shipped near the boarder and go get them and bring them across yourself. You can't fly them across due to liquid in the container and the theat of terrorism these days.

[sanjay21]

They look amazing ! great job Pat :) can't wait to see them grown :D

[DiscusDish]

I don't think it's that easy to get them shipped across the boarder. You will have to get them shipped near the boarder and go get them and bring them across yourself. You can't fly them across due to liquid in the container and the theat of terrorism these days.

Oh, okay. I will figure something out in the future. I'm not wanting to buy any r now. Just in the future.

[Pices]

Pat they are so gorgeous and lively. It’s like my dog’s happy walk-they have a happy swim if that makes any sense. I swear I haven’t been drinking.....ha
Patty

[Second Hand Pat]

Pat they are so gorgeous and lively. It’s like my dog’s happy walk-they have a happy swim if that makes any sense. I swear I haven’t been drinking.....ha
Patty

Thank you Patty :D No worries :D
Pat

[Second Hand Pat]

New video!!


http://youtu.be/FQ11eHK5794

[danotaylor]

Some really nice base red coming through now Pat. They're lovely looking discus :)

[Second Hand Pat]

Some really nice base red coming through now Pat. They're lovely looking discus :)

Thank you Danny, I am loving the color on these guys too and the red is following the striations :D
Pat

[CrazyAngels]

Wow Pat it sure has been a long time since I dropped in to visit the forum. I'm so glad to see you back at it and doing so well. these guys look marvelous with all the care you've given them.

[Second Hand Pat]

Hey Jorge, Long time no see, how you been man? ����
Pat

[CrazyAngels]

Hey Jorge, Long time no see, how you been man? ����
Pat

it sure has been a long time. Been so busy with all the launches on both coasts. this year though I've spent half of the year here in Florida helping out the crew. needless to say I've got my fishroom to only hardy fish that my daughter can feed lightly for me and handle water changes about every other month when I get home for a few days.
I hope once my travel stops that I can pick up where I left off.

Take good care Pat and I wish you and yours a happy Thanksgiving and happy Holiday season..

[Second Hand Pat]

The F1s are slowly growing, developing more striations and you can see red developing where the striations are forming. You can also see hints of a halo. :D


http://youtu.be/FZ0YD_K8uDU

[Mando]

They look great, Pat! Halo's are indeed coming out! I noticed that these types of wilds do not grow as large as some domestics. My green tefe wilds aren't that big either.

[danotaylor]

Amazing Pat, great job. The live black worms sure paid off!!

[Second Hand Pat]

They look great, Pat! Halo's are indeed coming out! I noticed that these types of wilds do not grow as large as some domestics. My green tefe wilds aren't that big either.

Thanks Armando, they can given time. Wilds grow easily late in the second year I figure these F1s will also but we shall see. If your tefe's are still young they also can get as large as domestics. The two tefe's in my signature did but they were both males.
Pat

[Second Hand Pat]

Amazing Pat, great job. The live black worms sure paid off!!

Yes they did Danny and still feeding them.
Pat

[Second Hand Pat]

Update on these guys. Growth has slow down but these guys will be a year old end of January. Some are showing nice striations with hints of red. Others are more red based with no striation thru the body. Some are starting to sport a darker halo.
Pat


http://youtu.be/LQOpcGmXlik

[Mando]

They look awesome, Pat! The year went by so quick!

[danotaylor]

Very very nice Pat! After a slow start these guys turned on the growth and look fabulous. Some very nice & subtle variations there mate!

[Second Hand Pat]

They look awesome, Pat! The year went by so quick!

Thank you Armando, the year did go by fast.
Pat

[Second Hand Pat]

Very very nice Pat! After a slow start these guys turned on the growth and look fabulous. Some very nice & subtle variations there mate!

Thank you Danny, I am have fun watching these guys develop. Look forward to seeing what the new year brings with these guys :)
Pat

[Second Hand Pat]

These guys are a year old now. Getting big and developing lots of color.

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[fljones3]

Stunning!

[danotaylor]

Beautiful Pat!

[Larry208]

Looking great Pat.

[RogueDiscus]

These are amazing Pat! I have to give a shout-out to Al of course for the F1's, but your grow-outs are stunning. And you've done this along with the contest grow outs, your other fish, and now your new project. Plus, you've shared it with us all!
Oh, and when can we expect some more wildlife pics? :)

What's next for them? Their own biotope tank, F2's? If anybody can, I bet you could.

[Second Hand Pat]

Stunning!

Thank you Frank :D


Beautiful Pat!

Thank you Danny :D


Looking great Pat.

Thank you Larry :D

Pat

[Second Hand Pat]

These are amazing Pat! I have to give a shout-out to Al of course for the F1's, but your grow-outs are stunning. And you've done this along with the contest grow outs, your other fish, and now your new project. Plus, you've shared it with us all!
Oh, and when can we expect some more wildlife pics? :)

What's next for them? Their own biotope tank, F2's? If anybody can, I bet you could.

Thank you Steve and I have been a bit busy fish wise. :D For these guys I simply want to grow them out. If they grow like wilds they will not mature until their second year. I am setting up a 230 and they will move into that along with some heckels. I am hopefully for some F2s in the future.
Pat

[Sturiosoma]

These guys are a year old now. Getting big and developing lots of color.

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I like those very nice

Be safe on your trip and don't bring back any unused film


Jeanne

[jimmyjoe]

Pat they look gorgeous, you do have a way about you and your way of growing discus out. What size tank do you have for these 8 I think I counted in? Jim In Ridgeville

[Discluv]

I love these discus- will you be keeping them or selling them? If selling- Im interested :)

[Second Hand Pat]

I love these discus- will you be keeping them or selling them? If selling- Im interested :)

Hi Discluv, keeping them for now :)
Pat

[Second Hand Pat]

They have reached an awkward stage in their development.


http://youtu.be/sd9g8BmUBng

[timvriens]

as i said on FB , i love these fish, but why are they in a awkward stage

[Second Hand Pat]

as i said on FB , i love these fish, but why are they in a awkward stage

Hi Tim, the foreheads on some of them are out of proportion with the rest of the face. I have seem them grow into and out of it since I received them from Al.
Pat

[timvriens]

Hi Tim, the foreheads on some of them are out of proportion with the rest of the face. I have seem them grow into and out of it since I received them from Al.
Pat
Is that not just the shape of a wild ?

[Second Hand Pat]

Is that not just the shape of a wild ?

Depends on the wild fish Tim. I am hopeful for a clean forehead and chin area like the wild in my avatar.
Pat

[Second Hand Pat]

So these guys are just over a year old and I reached my year growth goal of 5.5 inches. I have also decreased the amount of protein and added more veggie flake to see if I can balance out their forehead to chin development. When I ran into this situation when they were younger I consulted with Al and he suggest their diet may be out of whack and to reduce the protein and it worked. So seeing if that advice will work again.
Pat

[jawfish]

That's a real nice growth especially for F1's.
They are really looking great. You did a fantastic job with them Pat. Looking forward to seing more updates.

Fred

[Second Hand Pat]

That's a real nice growth especially for F1's.
They are really looking great. You did a fantastic job with them Pat. Looking forward to seing more updates.

Fred

Thank you Fred and some of these guys are showing some potential.

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Pat

[danotaylor]

Coming along nicely Pat! You've got the touch all right :thumbsup:

[Second Hand Pat]

Coming along nicely Pat! You've got the touch all right :thumbsup:

Thank you Danny :D
Pat

[AquaticNerd]

All I can say is WOW!:o

[Second Hand Pat]

All I can say is WOW!:o

Thanks Jake :D
Pat

[LizStreithorst]

My favorite has always been the one in the 3rd pic. What a shame it doesn't have a red eye. You for sure need to keep that one and use it as the base for your breeding project. If you're not thinking about breeding you should be.

[Second Hand Pat]

My favorite has always been the one in the 3rd pic. What a shame it doesn't have a red eye. You for sure need to keep that one and use it as the base for your breeding project. If you're not thinking about breeding you should be.

You are right Liz, it does have an amber eye. I had to go check and a handful of the group have the amber eyes like dad. Your favorite is one of mine too and of the group shows the most consistent uniform red base color. Definitey a keeper.
Pat

[Second Hand Pat]

Some of these guys are getting taller.


http://youtu.be/15vQN8j0cvY

[danotaylor]

They're looking great Pat. Really nice body markings, some nice deep reds coming in as well..

[coralbandit]

They look great !
Very nice Pat.

[Second Hand Pat]

They're looking great Pat. Really nice body markings, some nice deep reds coming in as well..

Thank you Danny :D
Pat

[Second Hand Pat]

They look great !
Very nice Pat.

Thank you Tom :D
Pat

[bluelagoon]

They have come along nicely.

[Larry208]

Looking great Pat, have to agree with Liz about breeding them, :), cant wait to see the offspring of these beauties, if you do decide to breed them.

[Second Hand Pat]

They have come along nicely.


Looking great Pat, have to agree with Liz about breeding them, :), cant wait to see the offspring of these beauties, if you do decide to breed them.

Thank you Mervin and Larry :D
Pat

[Second Hand Pat]

These guys are 15 months old.


http://youtu.be/MKrgV0bKSq0

[fljones3]

Beautiful. Too bad I cannot show this to my fry — “See if you eat well this is how you can grow up.” :)

[danotaylor]

Very nice Pat...great job on the grow out...they're a very consistent looking group with pretty colors and patterns!

[Second Hand Pat]

Beautiful. Too bad I cannot show this to my fry — “See if you eat well this is how you can grow up.” :)

Thank you Frank, from what I have seen you are doing very well with your fry :D
Pat

[Second Hand Pat]

Very nice Pat...great job on the grow out...they're a very consistent looking group with pretty colors and patterns!

Thank you Danny, some of them are still in that awkward stage and I do have one out of the 16 which will remain small. Some are showing real promise :D
Pat

[brewmaster15]

Pat they are looking great definitely growing well for you. My group is doing okay, very healthy and awesome colors, but I unfortunately was not able to give the optimal care with all my other obligations...their growth is less than yours :( Ironically my grow out from the wild Green X Blue Snake skin pair that have gotten the same care are doing awesome... The addition of the domestic gene must have really helped them out. ah well.. I will be happy if I get a few pairs of these wild reds , even if not the largest fish I can still work with that, hopefully my next generation will come at a time when I can actually give the best care,

al

[Second Hand Pat]

Pat they are looking great definitely growing well for you. My group is doing okay, very healthy and awesome colors, but I unfortunately was not able to give the optimal care with all my other obligations...their growth is less than yours :( Ironically my grow out from the wild Green X Blue Snake skin pair that have gotten the same care are doing awesome... The addition of the domestic gene must have really helped them out. ah well.. I will be happy if I get a few pairs of these wild reds , even if not the largest fish I can still work with that, hopefully my next generation will come at a time when I can actually give the best care,

al

Thank you Al, as you know I have pulled my hair out a couple times with these guys but all have mostly worked out. I think your guys still have a year of growing to do so hang in there. They could still surprise you I think. :) If you get a chance could you post some pics of the wild Green X Blue Snake skin. I would love to see what they look like :D
Pat

[brewmaster15]

Pat,
Heres your F1 wild's siblings...:)

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49974507866_4f5178ecb9_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2j95q6Y)IMGP1784 (https://flic.kr/p/2j95q6Y)


https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49973988218_9905c13de2_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2j92KCw)IMGP1789 (https://flic.kr/p/2j92KCw)


https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49974767177_7c9abf3a3c_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2j96KbR)IMGP1790 (https://flic.kr/p/2j96KbR)


https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49974506166_5eba77f4dc_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2j95pAE)IMGP1793 (https://flic.kr/p/2j95pAE)

They look bigger in the pics than they are, at most they range from 4.5 -5 " These are my best ones.. I have 2 other tanks that are a tad smaller. I love their colors and they are sparring like crazy, I would not be surprised if I see eggs one day soon. I think they will continue to grow more and I have enlisted some fish room help from Ethan so I can focus more on a few tanks here.

I will post some pics of the wild greens crosses soon.

al

[Second Hand Pat]

Wow Al, they look great and so red. I would definitely be proud of these guys :D
Pat

[Willie]

Oh, I'm so envious...color, pattern, shape....

[peewee1]

Pat,
Heres your F1 wild's siblings...:)

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49974507866_4f5178ecb9_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2j95q6Y)IMGP1784 (https://flic.kr/p/2j95q6Y)


https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49973988218_9905c13de2_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2j92KCw)IMGP1789 (https://flic.kr/p/2j92KCw)


https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49974767177_7c9abf3a3c_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2j96KbR)IMGP1790 (https://flic.kr/p/2j96KbR)


https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49974506166_5eba77f4dc_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2j95pAE)IMGP1793 (https://flic.kr/p/2j95pAE)

They look bigger in the pics than they are, at most they range from 4.5 -5 " These are my best ones.. I have 2 other tanks that are a tad smaller. I love their colors and they are sparring like crazy, I would not be surprised if I see eggs one day soon. I think they will continue to grow more and I have enlisted some fish room help from Ethan so I can focus more on a few tanks here.

I will post some pics of the wild greens crosses soon.

al
What!? Green!? Can you put one in with my next order of FDBW? As for the red color are we feeding Al's world famous bio-worms?

[brewmaster15]

What!? Green!? Can you put one in with my next order of FDBW? As for the red color are we feeding Al's world famous bio-worms?

:)These guys get a mix of my freeze dried blackworms ... depends on whats at hand but I do lean towards the biopigment plus. They arent picky eaters though and if they have to they will eat anything I throw in.. just not with the same enthusiasm as my fdbw.

AL

[jeep]

I think you've both done a fine job with these guys! Pat and I talk quite often about her f1's and I wish I would have gotten some myself!

[brewmaster15]

I think you've both done a fine job with these guys! Pat and I talk quite often about her f1's and I wish I would have gotten some myself!

Thanks Brian,
I have you at the top of the list for the F2s:)

al

[LizStreithorst]

I've been enamored of these wild blooded Discus for a long time. Domestics have been refined and artificially colored to the point that they no longer appeal to me. May be one day I'll buy some little ones to grow out. Right now I still have hopes for the little breeding project I'm concentrating on.

[pastry]

Pat,
Heres your F1 wild's siblings...:)

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49974507866_4f5178ecb9_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2j95q6Y)IMGP1784 (https://flic.kr/p/2j95q6Y)


https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49973988218_9905c13de2_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2j92KCw)IMGP1789 (https://flic.kr/p/2j92KCw)


https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49974767177_7c9abf3a3c_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2j96KbR)IMGP1790 (https://flic.kr/p/2j96KbR)


https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49974506166_5eba77f4dc_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2j95pAE)IMGP1793 (https://flic.kr/p/2j95pAE)

They look bigger in the pics than they are, at most they range from 4.5 -5 " These are my best ones.. I have 2 other tanks that are a tad smaller. I love their colors and they are sparring like crazy, I would not be surprised if I see eggs one day soon. I think they will continue to grow more and I have enlisted some fish room help from Ethan so I can focus more on a few tanks here.

I will post some pics of the wild greens crosses soon.

al

O...M....freak'n...G... :eek:

I'm sorry, that's like discus porn to me

[LizStreithorst]

Who says all the best have to be imported? It's not true. We have started to get it on right here in our own country.

[brewmaster15]

Who says all the best have to be imported? It's not true. We have started to get it on right here in our own country.

I agree Liz, The more hobbyists breed with a purpose the more we can improve it too. I am glad thats Pats group is doing so well also as I know she wanted these bad. It also increases the chances that we will have F2s even if something should happen to either of our F1 groups. I thinks whats also nice here is we have documented the parentage and the importer. We know that at this point these are really F1 wilds. That to me is a very important part of any breeding program.


Al

[sanjay21]

Love watching F1 Discus updates. Pat and Al you both did great job :) Love those patterns.

[Second Hand Pat]

A few from tonight. You place a light on the tank and they go hide in a corner so this is from about 45 mins of waiting for them to get comfortable.
Pat

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[peewee1]

All very nice and thanks for sharing. Photo 2 is the one for me. But each has its own unique quality.

[pastry]

All very nice and thanks for sharing. Photo 2 is the one for me. But each has its own unique quality.

PeeWee... that's why we can't hang out... two great minds thinking alike ("trouble"). Number 2 (first time ever no pun intended) would be my first pick

Pat & Al, seriously, love the heck out of those fish!

[peewee1]

PeeWee... that's why we can't hang out... two great minds thinking alike ("trouble"). Number 2 (first time ever no pun intended) would be my first pick

Pat & Al, seriously, love the heck out of those fish!

I have a Red Alenquer similar to that one, E-man. But with less blue. Very nice fish, Pat.

[fljones3]

Nice looking F1’s Pat! And Al!