Pimples and Not Hungry

[DiscusDish]

Hi there, I’m new on this forum.

Here is the disease questionnaire I was supposed to fill out:
1. Please explain the problems with your fish. When did you notice the problems and did anything unusual happen that you think started them?

Hi, two weeks ago my female 6” red melon stopped eating. A week later she began to develop pimples. I started doing more water changes. She is still not hungry.

2. Symptoms (i.e. turning dark, excess slime, not eating, clamped fins, flashing, darting, clamped gills, white/yellow/green poop, hiding, headstanding or tailstanding, white on tips of fins, rotting or fungus, blisters/white zits on fish, bloated, cloudy eyes, wounds).

Not eating, pimple

3. What medications/ treatments have you already tried and what were the results. Include dosage and duration of treatment.

I cleaned 50% daily for the past few days.

Tank/Water

4. Tank size and ages, numbers and sizes of fish.

55g Overstocked

5x Discus: 2x 4”, 1x 5”, 1x 6”, 1x 7”.

2x Angelfish: 2x 4”

12x Gold Rams: 12x 1.5”

5. Water change regime (What percentage and how often).

25% twice a week, now 50% daily.

6. How long has tank been running? Is it bare bottom? If you have substrate, what type and how deep is it?

Tank running for 1 year, bare bottom, discus that isn’t eating in for 2 months, used to eat super aggressively.

7. Do you age your water? If you do for how long and what is the ph swing.

No, just condition it with Prime and match temperature.

8. What type/brand water conditioner do you use? Do you add it to the tank or aging barrel? How much do you use?

Prime, add it to the bucket and then add bucket to tank

9. Parameters and water source;

Note: Water Parameters are important in diagnosing problems within a tank. If you don't own test kits for the following information, you can purchase them, test your parameters and post this info as soon as possible.


- temp _30oC____

- ph ___7.6__

- ammonia reading __0__

- nitrite reading __0__

- nitrate reading __15-20__

What type of water or combinations of water sources do you use? If it is an RO/tap/well water mix, please list percentages in the mix.

- well water __yes__

- municipal water _no___

- RO water _no___


10. Any new fish, plants or inverts added recently.

Rams added last week after 2 weeks qt, the discus stopped eating 2 weeks ago.

11. Please tell us what you feed your fish and how often. This can be critical information for solving the problem so be as specific as you can.

I feed flakes twice a day and a 1.5”x1.5” block of thawed frozen bloodworms daily.

12. Include any pictures or videos you have which shows the symptoms. If you can't add them to this post, please provide a link to them

Sorry can’t post any images right now, maybe later. She is the light orange one, the male is red.

[Mando]

Welcome to the forum!!

I hate to be the bearer of bad news but 2 weeks qt is not nearly enough time for QT. It's recommended to do 6 weeks qt and then introduce a sacrificial fish to the QT fish for another 2-3 weeks. Does he/she have white feces?

Since his issue just seems to be the pimple and a closed gill, you don't necessarily have to move him to the QT tank, however, all the commotion from the tank mates may make it harder for him to go for food. Just up the heat and add 2-3tbs of salt per 10 gallons for everyone in the tank. Rams do good up to 85 degrees and I don't think a few days at 88-90 will affect them.

[DiscusDish]

Thanks, I also think I will wait till tomorrow because I’m moving her and her mate to a 36g breeding tank. I want to breed them, I have tried with a young pair before but they kept eating the eggs and got stunted so, oh well. These guys are 6-7” so the fry will be nice big and red. So I will use the salt in the 36g once I move them in. Thanks so much for your help. She just lets the bloodworms float past her, pays no interest, she isn’t hiding or darkening just not hungry. I will buy beef heart tomorrow. And prepare a mixture. �� No white feces.

[LizStreithorst]

With that stocking level you are not changing near enough water. You're nitrates should be at 5. 15 to 20 is way too high. I would change at least 50% daily all the time.

I would also raise the tank temp to 90 and treat with 100% metronidazole for 10 to 12 days. Don't move the pair yet unless you want to treat both tanks. All your fish have been exposed so they should all be treated.

[danotaylor]

I would guess that overcrowding and poor water quality are the culprits. Way too many fish, way too little water changes for the bioload.
If you move the pair I would do a 50% daily water change with the salt and temp increase that Mando suggested. I think they will come good.
The 55 gal will need min 50% daily water changes until you can reduce the bioload permanently. There is a lot of viable detritus on the floor of the BB tank in the pic you posted. I reckon your bacterial count is off the charts.
1 adult discus/10gal water is recommended, and would still require 50% at least twice a week for optimum health.
If you see even 1 fish with white feces I would dose the metro as Liz recommended.

[DiscusDish]

What are they sick with? I thought Metro was for parasites? I will start doing more water changes. One today actually. Just raised he temperature to 89, added salt. Why metro? It’s not Hole In The Head, it’s just a pimple... please let me know what you meant ASAP. Thanks

[DiscusDish]

Ok, thanks danotaylor. I am currently rehousing my angelfish fry that I bred, hey should be gone in the next week, and I will move all my angelfish and rams to the angelfish fry grow out tank and will only keep discus in my 55g. Maybe a few Cories in the late future.

[DiscusDish]

Oh and btw, she ate two bloodworms as soon as I put them in right now and then went away. I’m guessing that she is shy. I will keep discus only and hopefully she will feel more secure. :)

[danotaylor]

What are they sick with? I thought Metro was for parasites? I will start doing more water changes. One today actually. Just raised he temperature to 89, added salt. Why metro? It’s not Hole In The Head, it’s just a pimple... please let me know what you meant ASAP. Thanks
Metro is for hexatemia, an internal parasite, that causes them to stop eating, become shy, and shed their intestinal lining (white stringy feces). With stress (overcrowding/poor water quality) the dishes immunity cannot keep the present hex in check and they multiply and make your fish sick. I think Liz suspects Hex due to the conditions the fish are living in.

[DiscusDish]

Oh, okay. I will move them out right away then. This is not good. I will get a sponge filter ASAP for my tank to work along with my canister. I am taking down my 10g and moving my discus pair to a 36g. I will advertise my fry as free to get rid of them ASAP. That’s a shame, they are so cute and I raised hem by myself without the parents.


Aqadvisor is not happy...


Your aquarium filtration capacity for above selected species is 38%.Help on Filtration capacity
Recommended water change schedule: 50% per week. (You might want to split this water change schedule to two separate 29% per week)
Your aquarium stocking level is 149%.
Your tank is overstocked. Unless you are an experienced aquarist who can meet the maintenance/biological needs of this aquarium, lower stocking levels are recommended

[LizStreithorst]

Oh, okay. I will move them out right away then. This is not good. I will get a sponge filter ASAP for my tank to work along with my canister. I am taking down my 10g and moving my discus pair to a 36g. I will advertise my fry as free to get rid of them ASAP. That’s a shame, they are so cute and I raised hem by myself without the parents.


Aqadvisor is not happy...


Your aquarium filtration capacity for above selected species is 38%.Help on Filtration capacity
Recommended water change schedule: 50% per week. (You might want to split this water change schedule to two separate 29% per week)
Your aquarium stocking level is 149%.
Your tank is overstocked. Unless you are an experienced aquarist who can meet the maintenance/biological needs of this aquarium, lower stocking levels are recommended

Thanks, Danny. The fish may have eaten 2 bloodworms today but until now he said that she hadn't eaten in 2 months. With that amount of time since she has eaten she would have no poo to shed, either black or white and stringy.

DiscusDish, metro is also an antibiotic as well as an anti-parasitic. Although the pimple might well clear up with decent water quality, the metro might help. If you don't know where to get 100% metro, it's available at Jhemco. The dose we use for Discus is 400 mg daily for 10 to 12 days with large WC before re-treating. You can't do this if you will be out of time but the high temps alone will help. Is there nobody who can do WC on that single tank while you are away?

What the hell is aquadvisor? If they recommended less water changed they don't know what Discus require.

[DiscusDish]

Oh okay, thanks Liz. I meant 2 weeks not 2 months. My bad. I am moving them tomorrow. The fry tank will be empty by tomorrow. Hopefully I can give my pair a nice environment. And I actually have metronidazole, I used it to treat hole in the head with parasites sticking out of it on one of my other discus. I raised he temp, hopefully that’ll help. When did I say that I would be gone? I am here every day so am able to do water changes. I will start 50% daily water changes until I can move the rams and angels out.

I didn’t know that so little people knew about aqadvisor, the other forum I’m on uses it a lot to determine stocking, though we all agree that the water change regimes it recommends is terrible. He stocking calculator is good though. The website is aqadvisor.com

[DiscusDish]

Oh no... Please Hep Me Out. I don’t know what I’m doing to cause this. I started more water changes, raised the temperature, and added salt.

Anyways my other discus of the pair seems to have these weird spots on his head and I can see little worm like things under his skin. Maybe it’s my imagination but please confirm and help me out. I will post some pictures shortly... Thanks

[DiscusDish]

Here is a photo.

[danotaylor]

I don't see anything unusual on the pic your posted. Are you talking about the black peppering? If so, that is merely peppering that confirms it is in the pigeon blood family. PB commonly get the black peppering, though these days it is usually mild on well bred fish such as yours seems to be.
When the discus pimples "pop" they look like white worms protruding from the fishes skin. Once the pores are evacuated, there will be small pock marks, like small openings in the skin. Be patient now, it is just the outworking of being over crowded and having less than optimal water conditions. Super important to keep the water clean and salted with 2-3tbsp/10gal until the holes close up again.

[DiscusDish]

Ok, thanks! Right above his eye looks like a few tiny veins, I thought they were worms. And btw, in the first pic it isn’t detritus, I have really bad water with a ton of silicates/diatoms so I always get brown algae. Thank goodness we are getting an RO unit soon. I will move them out today to the 36g and move the angelfish out to the 27g.

[DiscusDish]

Oh ok, thanks! I was looking right above the eye and saw those tiny veins but I guess they are popped pimples. Ok, the 36g will be extremely clean as it is going to have fresh water. Hopefully they recover in there, and hopefully she eats when there aren’t any tank mates.I don’t have that much detritus in my tank but more silicates/diatoms that cause brown algae! Soooo annoying!

[DiscusDish]

Hello, I have a few questions.

1. I have a breeding/hospital tank setup. It is a 33g. If I add some filter media and a breeding cone from a cycled tank, with some Stability, will it be safe for my discus to come in?

2. Is it okay if I don’t have a filter on this tank? I only have 2 air stones. If needed, I can go buy a sponge filter tomorrow. Please tell me ASAP.

Okay, this is a picture of my breeding tank setup. :o

[danotaylor]

Overnight it would be ok, but without some form of biological filtration you would need to change 100% of the water daily without fail. Do you have a heater for the tank as well?
How will you circulate water past the media you plan to add so that the BB can continue to convert your waste to nitrates? Do you have a small HOB filter you can use or something?

[DiscusDish]

I can use a small hob temporarily. It is for 15-25g tanks. Would that work? Thanks

Edit: I forgot to add. I do have a heater, just didn’t have it in at that point in time.

[danotaylor]

Perfect. You just need water moving past/thru the mature media so that it will do it's thing. I would still add a sponge tomorrow and leave the HOB on until the sponge is able to handle the bioload.

[DiscusDish]

Ok, thanks a bunch. You are very helpful. :)

[danotaylor]

My pleasure mate. Happy to help!

[DiscusDish]

Ok, here is what I got. I added Prime, some old filter media, 2 cones from cycled tanks and Seachem Stability. Is it safe to add the discus? Is this a good setup?

[DiscusDish]

Here is an update, they are settling in well. Just getting used to heir new environment :)

[DiscusDish]

OMG!!! No way! I fed them some frozen bloodworms, turned off the light and sat still. After 5 minutes she and her mate were eating, a lot! She actually even picked some off the bottom, she never does this!

[danotaylor]

That's great that they're eating and they look great in your 33gal!
Are the little dots all over the glass micro bubbles from doing a water change? If so, even though you have a minimal pH swing it could be part of the problem. Search micro bubbles on the site search engine to find out more...

[DiscusDish]

Hi, the reason there are bubbles is because the tank was only filled up today. It always happens in my newly filled up tanks. ;)

[danotaylor]

Do you get micro bubbles after your water changes?

[DiscusDish]

No, just after I start a new tank. Never after WCs. Thanks for your help danotaylor, you are super helpful. :)

[Second Hand Pat]

Hi DiscusDish, first welcome to Simply and you have received some excellent advice here. I would suggest checking ammonia for a mini-cycle and do 50% water changes for a week to allow the beneficial bacteria to catch up with the bio-load in the tank.

If you are able to please consider aging your water with aeration. This will provide a stable water source for water changes.
Pat

[DiscusDish]

Ok, thanks for your help Pat. :)

[danotaylor]

No, just after I start a new tank. Never after WCs. Thanks for your help danotaylor, you are super helpful. :)

Happy to help mate!

[DiscusDish]

Hi, just a question. In this new tank the female will sometimes shiver for a period of a second or two. Is this mating behaviour? The male just stares at her. Second, my male always stops and stares at the breeding cone. Every time he swims by it, he stops at it.

Any ideas why they are doing this? It would be great if this means they will spawn soon!

[DiscusDish]

Bump?

[DiscusDish]

Oh and by the way, he only twitches when they stop swimming together and make eye contact. Just for a second or less. Not a steady shiver.

[LizStreithorst]

foreplay.

[DiscusDish]

Thanks Liz. That’s what I sort of thought, I will be watching this week for breeding cone cleaning. If she sometimes just twitches randomly, is it parasites? Thanks again Liz

[DiscusDish]

Btw, I watched some videos on them shivering, mine looks more like twitching... what does this mean?

[DiscusDish]

OMG, help me ASAP!! I don’t know what to do! She now has three pimple and one of them is at least .5cm in diameter! I don’t know what to do or how to treat this! Help!

[DiscusDish]

It’s definitely pimples so I’m doin 50-75% daily water changes. Right after the one I did just now the big one popped, thank god it was on top of the skin like a blister instead of in it!

[Second Hand Pat]

DiscusDish, can you post a picture? Also what are the ammonia, nitrite and nitrate measurements in the tank they are in?
Pat

[DiscusDish]

Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 5. I will post a picture right aways, it’s hard to on mobile.

[LizStreithorst]

Have you ever checked to see if there is a big swing between the pH of your tap water compared to aged water? Your parameters are perfect. I can think of no other reason you are having these problems.

[DiscusDish]

There is a 0.2pH swing so it’s not super bad. I just moved them to the 33g so the pimples may go away soon. Hopefully...

[LizStreithorst]

.2 is fine. Post a pic when you can.

[Sturiosoma]

If you think the problem is bacterial you can treat the entire tank with a 2ppm of 3% Hydrogen peroxide for 12 to 24 hr and then do a 50% water change and another 50% water change the next day

Jeanne

[DiscusDish]

How much is 2ppm?

[DiscusDish]

First, I only have outdated 3% hydrogen peroxide. Second, here are some photos, it would be wonderful if you help me identify this. By the way, she had two smaller pimples on her head this morning and after the water change they are now gone. Is this thing also a pimple? It looks sort of fungal but not exactly like fungus.

[Second Hand Pat]

Hi DiscusDish, this looks like Hole in the Head. Do you have metro and epsum salts available?
Pat

[jeep]

Sorry to miss this thread but Pat directed me to it. I think the #1 issue in the beginning was over stocking and minimal water changes. These factors may have improved, but possibly a little late. Judging by the last photo's, this was most likely a minor bacterial issue that has evolved.

At first, I thought you may have a cross contamination issue, and that may still be a possibility along with secondary issues. Treating with metro and salt at 1 TBS per gallon with daily 50% water changes with aged water for 10 days may hopefully clear this up, but with the large infection I would also suggest netting the fish and dabbing the wound with peroxide or iodine if you don't see improvement within 2 or 3 days. If it continues to grow the I would treat with EM, Oxytet or Furan 2.

Keep us updated with photo's when possible...

[LizStreithorst]

Didn't I recommend metro at the start of this post? I assumed that DiscusDish had already treated.

[DiscusDish]

I hadn’t, because i didn’t think it was necessary. But now I guess it is. Here is what I think:

It is definitely not hole in the head because I have had other discus with hole in the head and it looks nothing like this. The white stuff had fallen off the wound when I turned on the lights this morning. Should I just stick to water changes or should I use metro as well? I will try to use some peroxide but is it okay if it is a bit outdated? Here is a new picture



Oh my god it looks really bad. What do I do?! She literally has crater in her head that is red/bloody! I will treat with metro+ ASAP and peroxide, I will also do a major water change right now.


Please help. Can I still save her?

[DiscusDish]

By the way, check out this thread. A well known member on fish lore had the exact same thing happen but they only did 90% daily water changes. I think peroxide might help though. Look at post 16# on here: https://www.fishlore.com/aquariumfishforum/threads/growths-on-side-of-discus.309625/

[DiscusDish]

Is it okay if I treat with metro with her mate still in the tank?

[danotaylor]

I would do exactly as Jeep (and previously Liz) suggested. Metro will not harm the other discus. I have dosed salt at 1tbsp/1 gal myself at Jeeps direction. It seems a lot of salt but they did fine and it's only shirt term. Netting the fish and cleaning the wound with hydrogen peroxide 3% will help with the external part of the infection. Start now! Every moment lost is a moment the infection goes deeper.

[DiscusDish]

Ok, got it. Just dabbed the peroxide, I will now get the metro from my medicine cabinet. Thanks for your help guys I will give daily updates.

[danotaylor]

I read through that post...most of the initial advice was to treat for hex which is an internal parasite. The squiggly lines poking out of that discus were pimples, no doubt, which as you have discovered, can lead to HITH. Raising temp with a bacterial infection is bad advice as bacteria colonize faster in higher temps. Anyway, you do need lots of clean water but that fish will probably die if you don't treat the infection.

[DiscusDish]

Okay, I will lower the temperature from 88oF to 86F. Is this good? I am adding salt right now, metro+ had been added. I will do daily 75% water changes. Or should I do two 50% water changes daily? Thanks

[jeep]

Didn't I recommend metro at the start of this post? I assumed that DiscusDish had already treated.

It was pretty late and I kind of skimmed over the post. Mine was just a general report in agreement with previous suggestions :o

I'm concerned about this wound. If this was caused by an internal infection that worked its way out, then large water changes are very important because of the amount of bacteria being pumped into the water. Again, your water should be aged to reduce stress. I would also definitely use an antibiotic stronger than metro at this point. Do you have access to some of the meds I mentioned earlier, or even better yet Kanamycin? EM is about the only thing I can think of that's available in many pet stores.

I've seen a similar wound before and the outcome was not good. While yours may not be the same thing, it can work its way back into the fish if not treated with a more powerful antibiotic.

I would also lower the temp to 82 or even 81 to help reduce the bacteria growth.

I'd like to see a close up of this straight on if possible.

[DiscusDish]

Hi, thanks for your answer. I don't know if I have Kanamycin and I am not sure what EM is. Here is a close up picture. As you requested

[DiscusDish]

Ahhh... Erythromycin. So General Cure will work, right? I don't know if our fish store has furan-2 though...

[DiscusDish]

Actually, I can order Furan-2 or Kanaplex from Seachem. Is this good? It will take a few days to arrive but I am not afraid to pay for shipping if it depends on the life/death of my $100 discus. Which ones should I order? Is Kanaplex and Furan-2 worth it? Thanks

[Tshethar]

You can get antibiotics without inert ingredients from a couple of sites, but time is of the essence for sure. You can get Kanamycin here, as well as Oxytetracycline as an alternative to Erythromycin: https://angelsplus.com/collections/fish-medications

In the meantime, I would keep doing the big WCs, drop the temp and add the salt as recommended, and keep an eye on the wound. If you see bacterial growth returning you can net and dab with peroxide again to try to keep it clean. Hopefully the infection hasn't and won't become systemic.

[DiscusDish]

Yes, thanks for your help. I am located in Canada so I will have to see how much US to Canada shipping is.

[DiscusDish]

I will just buy Kanapled off amazon as it is $64 plus tax and then I have to pay shipping to Canada and duty at the border. ��*♂️ :undecided::undecided:

[jeep]

Canada! They have made it very difficult to acquire meds for your fish. If possible, use pure stuff. Can you possibly go to a vet and see if he can give you a prescription? Anything that ends with "mycin" is good as well the tetracycline family of meds. For a wound like this, Kanamycin is preferred. Even amoxicillin can be of benefit. If you can't get pure then the kanaplex is a decent 2nd choice. These are all options so don't stop one and start another and don't combine unless you ask which you want to combine.

Until you get the meds, make sure you add the salt (not as much as I said earlier) at 6 TBD per 10g and replace the salt removed during water changes.

[DiscusDish]

Ok, got it. Thanks Brian. I will call a vet and ask if they can prescribe. The problem is that it is Sunday and in our city all stores are closed. The shipping fee for Amazon Express 1-3 business day is $20! I will call a different vet from a different city and ask if hey can email me a prescription. Thanks Jeep!

[DiscusDish]

Hi, I just swabbed the area and there is a little blood but there is also this gel bubble that came off. Here is what I have.

[danotaylor]

You can mix kanamycin and metro. I have done it with tropheus. Since Hex is a commonly present parasite I would continue the metro with kanamycin so Hex doesn't develop resistance due to not finishing the full course of metro

[DiscusDish]

I don’t know when I can get kanamycin and I don’t know if a vet can get it. Is it okay if it takes a day or two? I don’t want her to die. If I wanted to order on amazon my total comes to $50 for two 5g bottles of kanamycin!!!??

[DiscusDish]

Okay, I contacted a vet and am waiting for an answer. Hopefully they can prescribe it to me. For now I will be doing daily 75% water changes and dabbing hydrogen peroxide once a day. This is stressful....:confused:

[danotaylor]

Don't forget the salt. It inhibits bacterial reproduction by increasing osmotic pressure, which can also kill bacteria. Jeep's dose 6tbsp/10gal.
By something like this from Canadian Tire, 99.8% sodium chloride, $7/40#;
125341
Aquarium salt is a waste of money. Fancy name for the exact same thing

[DiscusDish]

Ok thanks

[DiscusDish]

Those are crystals though, not grain.

[jeep]

Crystal salt is ok to use as long as it's pure with no additives. Just estimate what a TBS is. It's not an overly strong concentration so you don't have to be exact.

I would also suggest dousing or flooding the area instead of swabbing. Swabbing may add to stress and you don't want that.

[DiscusDish]

Ok, how much should I add of peroxide to the tank? Thanks

[DiscusDish]

And can I use kitchen salt? Table salt? Sea Salt?

[Tshethar]

Generally, any salt is fine. I usually use kosher salt from the supermarket. A box is cheap and will last a while. Don't use marine or reef salt as it will change your hardness and elevate your pH.

With the peroxide, I think Jeep's point is to net the fish and use it outside the tank, but without the cotton swab. You can squirt some on the wound or use an eyedropper or syringe and you may irritate the tissue or the fish less.

[DiscusDish]

Okay, will do. The lesion is looking better. A picture below. Is this better or worse? It seems like a light coat of skin/coat has started to grow in the sides. Here is a picture.

[LizStreithorst]

It is looking better but it's still bad. I think that the peroxide on the Q Tip helped. I wish I could help you more but I have never experienced this. If I did experience it now I would cut my losses and euthanize the $100. fish. The wound is deep and I really doubt that the fish will recover.

I know that this is not what you want to here, but I've kept Discus for a long time now. I've been through worse than this and I have learned that when a beloved fish has a bad bad problem trying to save it is like taking your money and taking a lot of time and worry with the inevitable out come is the death of the fish. I'm sorry, but that is my opinion. You can take it or leave it.

[DiscusDish]

Thanks for your opinion. I just bought salt and stress guard from the only store that is open in my area, hopefully it helps a little. She is not hiding or gasping or losing colour so I’m not sure what to think. :confused:

[danotaylor]

I am an RN. We only use HP as an irrigation on sloughy or pusy wounds these days. Swabbing with HP damages the good tissue. HP only fizzes and eats decaying or fungusy tissue. It will irritate good tissue with prolonged exposure but not in your case as it will dilute and cease to be irritating the moment your return your fish to the tank.

[DiscusDish]

So is what I am doing good or bad? Should I keep doing HP drops on the lesion? Thanks danotaylor, you are always helpful. And so are you Liz and jeep!

[LizStreithorst]

Keep swabbing with the HP for now. I'm trying to get in touch with an expert who may be able to help more than all of us have.

Take a couple of shots of whatever you drink and try not to be so obsessed and worried.. Worrying does no good. I know from experience that worry doesn't help.

[DiscusDish]

Lol. :D
I don’t think it is legal to drink underage! I think milk will do. Thanks for doing ur best to help me,let me know if you manage to contact the expert. :)

[LizStreithorst]

I didn't know that you were a young kid. Either way, worrying is a waste of time, even though I know you can't help it. Once the expert sees this thread he will post himself.

[danotaylor]

Lol. :D
I don’t think it is legal to drink underage! I think milk will do.
Now that's funny stuff right there...Liz did say "whatever" you drink...but most of us were where she's was coming from LOLOL :lickin::thumbsup:

[DiscusDish]

Now that's funny stuff right there...Liz did say "whatever" you drink...but most of us were where she's was coming from LOLOL :lickin::thumbsup:

No kidding. :cool:

[DiscusDish]

I didn't know that you were a young kid.

No problem Liz. That’s not something you should worry about. ;)

[DiscusDish]

Oh and by the way, a question for the mods/admins. How do I compress my photos or lower their size? All my mobile photos are over a MB and the only photo I have that is under 50KB is peppa. That’s pretty sad. How can I lower my mobile photos to less then 50KB? Thanks :mods::badmin:

[LizStreithorst]

One of the big guys here says that if you email the pic to yourself it automatically gets resized.

[DiscusDish]

Oh ok. I will try that.

[DiscusDish]

There we go, much better. A picture of my first breeding pair with eggs, sadly they broke up... I will have to buy some more discus so they can all repair. But first I have to get rid of my angels and move my rams to a 27g. Thanks Liz, you helped a lot. I didn’t want peppa pig as my avatar. Lol :)

[LizStreithorst]

Much better avatar, Dish. Don't you want to tell use your real name so we can call you it rather than your user name? You can go to your profile and put it in it if you want to.

[DiscusDish]

Call me Matt. ;)

[jeep]

I am an RN. We only use HP as an irrigation on sloughy or pusy wounds these days. Swabbing with HP damages the good tissue. HP only fizzes and eats decaying or fungusy tissue. It will irritate good tissue with prolonged exposure but not in your case as it will dilute and cease to be irritating the moment your return your fish to the tank.

Irrigate or flush! Those are the words I was looking for. Thanks Danny!

And Bill also explained why I suggested this method. Swabbing can irritate new tissue.

Another thought... I've seen people use a topical like neosporin or polysporin because the gel will remain in contact longer when in the water...

[danotaylor]

It certainly couldn't hurt to use a topical antibiotic ointment. It would provide a barrier to any bacteria in the water column

[DiscusDish]

Hi, thanks for your advice. She is doing much better, not as much hard breathing and she doesn’t seem to care that this is in her head. One question, I have tetramycin as a spray. I was wondering if it would be toxic to spray on fish? It is a blue/green spray for animals but I have used it on squirrel bites(yes squirrel bites, it’s pretty sad) and it helps stop infection. I am just wondering if this will poison the water or her? It is an antibiotic. Thanks!

Matt

[DiscusDish]

Bump?

[jeep]

I can't say for sure on that one but it's in the tetracycline family so the active ingredient should be fine. You may have to google the specific brand to see what the inert ingredients are. My guess it it's ok but a spray is not as good as an ointment in this case.

[DiscusDish]

Okay, thanks!

[DiscusDish]

I got it from Russia so I had to translate the ingredients. Are they aquarium safe?

oxytetracycline hydrochloride - 4.0 g,
and as adjuvants isopropyl alcohol-35.52 g,
polysorbate 80-0.20 g,
blue peptide V-0.20 g and n-butane - 62.8 g

[DiscusDish]

If this works let me know but for now I will stick to something else for example Polysporyn.

[DiscusDish]

Actually, I just found this. It is erythromycin ointment. Should I use this instead? I will check he ingredients and get back to you.

[DiscusDish]

Why do my pictures always post sideways? :confused:

[jeep]

I got it from Russia so I had to translate the ingredients. Are they aquarium safe?

oxytetracycline hydrochloride - 4.0 g,
and as adjuvants isopropyl alcohol-35.52 g,
polysorbate 80-0.20 g,
blue peptide V-0.20 g and n-butane - 62.8 g

Russia? I love Russia!!! I especially love how cheap it is to vacation there, lol... ;)

Isopropyl isn't an issue and acts like a solvent to help disperse the medication evenly. Also an antiseptic.

Polysorbate acts in the same way as isopropyl but not an antiseptic.

Blue peptide I believe is a collagen. This may help with clotting an open wound.

Butane is the accelerant.

I don't see anything that would harm your fish. Just keep in mind to find one course of action and stick to it. Every time you net the fish and remove it from the water, you add to the stress of an already compromised discus...

[DiscusDish]

I can’t seem to find the compound list anywhere. Should I still use it or nah?

[DiscusDish]

Oh ok jeep. Is erythromycin a better choice as it is an ointment or should I stick with tetramycin. So many mycins!!

[jeep]

I would use the ointment

[DiscusDish]

Thanks, Okey dokey. Lol :D

[danotaylor]

+1 on the erythromycin ointment

[DiscusDish]

Gotcha, I will use it right after this water change along with the salt.

[DiscusDish]

Oh my god, this morning she is looking waaayyyy better. There is no more blood and now it just seems like there is a hole with a little bit of new tissue. Yay! I will still use erythromycin right now. :)

[LizStreithorst]

Good to hear! I'm afraid that the expert is of the opinion that the fish doesn't have a good chance of recovery. But you are certainly doing everything in your power to help her. I'll continue to keep my fingers crossed and hope for the best.

[DiscusDish]

When I was fishing her out today she was flopping a lot, flooded my desk. Yesterday she would flop once then wait and let me do anything I want and then wait for me to put her back in the water. Good thing she is healing up. I honestly don’t know either if she will make it but it’s worth a try, eh? I’m going to try my best and all I ask of you guys is to keep giving me such wonderful advice. :) thank you

[LizStreithorst]

We'll do everything we can for you, Matt.

[DiscusDish]

Thanks, you’re always helpful guys. ;)

[danotaylor]

You're doing great too Matt! rootin for ya and your discus mate!!

[DiscusDish]

Looking super good right now, the whole wound has a growth of skin covering the flesh. It’s still a hole, I don’t know if it will fill up there is only one tiny flesh spot left.


I plan on breeding this pair, how do I stimulate them to lay eggs? I have heard a cooler water change but I have tried that unsuccessfully. I think after she recovers I will feed a lot more and maybe buy some roobios tea ;).

[DiscusDish]

Here we go again, she is doing amazing. Not hiding no heavy breathing. The wound has closed up inside. Look for yourselves!

[jeep]

Great job! Keep it up and be careful treating the wound. Even netting can damage the new tissue.

I would still run the antibiotics when you get them. Kanamycin is really good for internals issues.

[DiscusDish]

Umm... I didn’t actually order Kanamycin... it was $54 for two 5g “bottles”. What should I do? Is it okay if I dint get it or is it necessary? Thanks!

[jeep]

You were very lucky to have caught this very early and flushing the wound has greatly improved its chances. My main concern is if the wound traps any dead tissue or bacteria inside, it may return.

I would personally treat with antibiotics but they aren't that expensive here either. 10 grams doesn't seem to be enough to run a full course and stopping too soon can make things worse because the bacteria can become resistant. Is this pure Kanamycin or Kanaplex?

It's a tough call to make on someone else's behalf. Were any of the other meds available to you? Penicillin, amoxicillin, tetracycline?

At the end of the day, if you feel you are seeing positive results then you may want to stay the course. Remember, this is a nasty wound and it will linger for some time even if appearances don't show it. Just make sure the water is nearly clean enough for you to drink from :inquisitive:

[danotaylor]

Pretty sure the 5g jars he's talking about were kanaplex off amazon. The additional expenses was import duty bringing it into Canada and shipping. Kanaplex is weak, only like 30% pure. Don't waste your money on it.
If you can get kanamycin or 1of the other antibiotics Jeep mentioned I would go for it as well. Otherwise keep up with the water changes and salt at 6tbsp/10gal, but start backing off in the salt after 7-10days, as in replace 1/2 the previously dosed amount each water change until your back to no salt.
Hope it all works out Matt!

[DiscusDish]

Thanks! I can’t get Kanamycin so I will just stick with my routine right now. I came back from school today to a wonderful surprise. Her wound has started growing back/filling in! It’s looking really nice and it looks like it’s normal scales/coin except with an indent. There is a lot of new growth that I am seeing and I am overjoyed to see how fast she is recovering. Despite not thinking she would make it, I tried my best and the results are very positive so far! Here is another picture. I hope you don’t mind me updating.

[DiscusDish]

Forgot to add, she is eating well and they are happy and healthy. Is it normal that they don’t eat in front of me but when I “hide” in the room they devour everything? The walls of the tank are covered. I think she is doing great and I am thankful for all of your guys’s help. Thanks again

[danotaylor]

Looking great Matt! Keep the updates coming. So glad all is going so well mate.

[DiscusDish]

Thanks Danny ;)!

[DiscusDish]

The wound has almost filled in now, looking great. I will upload the picture ina. Day or two

[LizStreithorst]

Great news.

What we worry about is that the pathogen could still be under the skin in the very bottom of the hole. I'm telling you this because although we all hope it won't happen the pathogen may become active again. I hope it doesn't happen. You've worked very hard on this fish.

[DiscusDish]

Indeed, her hole is basically filled up last time I checked. When do you think it would be okay to start breeding them? I originally bought them to breed same with the 33g but this happened, I’m not saying that I’m annoyed, things happen that you can’t control. I’m just wondering in how many days I can begin breeding attempts.


I would like to know, please answer as best as you can, how do you activate the breeding mood? I had a pair that would spawn in an Angelfish community tank without me doing anything while this pair is showing no wish to spawn right now. Should I increase feeding? What else can I do? Roobios tea? Thanks

Matt

[DiscusDish]

Bump. :)

[danotaylor]

Matt are they a confirmed or proven pair? My pair would breed every 5 days or so until they started getting wigglersbthen it dropped back to every week or 2 until I had to sell them. They were in a 125 gal tank with 6 other adult discus and I never had fry attach is why they bred so frequently.

[DiscusDish]

Hi Danny, they are a confirmed pair. They always hung out together in my show tank and when I was buying them. In this tank, the male always shields her when I try to come and check out her wound. I bought them as a proven pair but have seen none, if any, spawning moods. They just hang out together and always swim where their mate swims. I did buy them from someone with city water but my water is well water and the pH is pretty high, same as the KH but the GH is very low.

What should I do?

[danotaylor]

Matt a confirmed pair is a pair that have had eggs, not just hangin out together all friendly like. Did the seller show you any pics of them with eggs? A "proven"pair has had wiggler's or fry. I would ask for evidence they were confirmed, otherwise they shouldn't have been sold to you as "confirmed". Did you know the seller?

[Second Hand Pat]

Hi Danny, they are a confirmed pair. They always hung out together in my show tank and when I was buying them. In this tank, the male always shields her when I try to come and check out her wound. I bought them as a proven pair but have seen none, if any, spawning moods. They just hang out together and always swim where their mate swims. I did buy them from someone with city water but my water is well water and the pH is pretty high, same as the KH but the GH is very low.

What should I do?

Matt, you should wait and be patient. The female needs to heal and heal well before worrying about spawning. When fish spawn and tend eggs. It is very stressful for them. If they were to spawn now it could compromise the healing process and cause that head wound to erupt and I am sure you do not want to see that happen. So while the fish is healing read thru the breeding section of the forum. Pay attention to conditioning the pair as a start point.
Pat

[DiscusDish]

Okay, thanks for your helpful advice Daniel. :)

[jeep]

I agree with Pat. The stress of spawning can easily weaken the immune system. Although it may be looking much better, it has a long way to go.

[LizStreithorst]

Add me to that list. Don't try to push things faster than they should go.

[DiscusDish]

Thank you. The wound has completely filled up, I will breed 5em in a week or two. Thanks again

[DiscusDish]

@Pat, could you please link me some reliable threads about conditioning?

@jeep,LizStreithorst,danotaylor: if possible could you do the same as Pat? Any reliable threads on conditioning? I want a lot of information so that I can do it right. Thank you

[LizStreithorst]

Matt, I don't know what threads mention conditioning and I'm not going to spend my time searching for them. Read around and you'll learn more than you even knew you wanted to know, including what you want to know. Do your research and when you have a specific question, ask us.

That said, the best foods to condition the fish are always live foods. I used to feed live CBWs but they are almost no longer available. I feed mosquito larvae from my many containers outside, but the harvest isn't that reliable. If I get a pair that shows interest in one another I'll feed them some of my red shrimp. I feed Al's black worms every day to all my fish. That's the second best thing.

[DiscusDish]

Ok, thanks Liz. It just seems that I can’t find what I’m looking for, the breeding section is a big bunch and there aren’t any sub-sections to look through. I will try the search bar. As for conditioning, I have zero access to live foods. No live food close to my area. Will FrozenBloodworms work? Or beef heart mix? Thanks

[DiscusDish]

Is this roobios tea aquarium safe? I would like to use it to create a more natural environment for them
https://www.amazon.ca/Davidsons-Tea-Organic-African-16-Ounce/dp/B000SATIE6/ref=sr_1_2?keywords=Roobios+tea&qid=1572136420&sr=8-2

[danotaylor]

I personally would not feed frozen blood worms Matt. Second Hand Pat has a source for live black worms. Try sending her a PM and ask. If that doesn't work out many here exclusively feed Al's FDBW. BH is a good food for conditioning but you have to stay on top of your water quality if you opt to use it. Given your recent crisis I would use the cleanest food possible, FDBW.

[DiscusDish]

Okay, thanks. :)

[danotaylor]

No worries mate.
As mentioned by others, I do think your plans to try to move the pair into breeding mode in the next couple of weeks is premature and potentially unwise given her recent spate with dead. Ultimately they're your fish so it's your call, but if it were me I'd give it 4-6 months to make sure she's all good and can handle the internal strain of breeding and raising fry.

[jeep]

No worries mate.
As mentioned by others, I do think your plans to try to move the pair into breeding mode in the next couple of weeks is premature and potentially unwise given her recent spate with dead. Ultimately they're your fish so it's your call, but if it were me I'd give it 4-6 months to make sure she's all good and can handle the internal strain of breeding and raising fry.

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

[DiscusDish]

Ok. :( I was really hoping to get to breeding sooner but oh well. I can wait.

[bluelagoon]

There is nothing wrong with blood worms. Compared to black worms, either wet or dry, black worm have twice the fat, but just about the same protein content. Blood worms are not used as much because a lot of folks are allergic to them. I use freeze dried blood worms; not wet that is mostly water like live worms and I find it conditions them for breeding mood if fed every day. I use it once or twice a week just for extra protein.

[DiscusDish]

There is nothing wrong with blood worms. Compared to black worms, either wet or dry, black worm have twice the fat, but just about the same protein content. Blood worms are not used as much because a lot of folks are allergic to them. I use freeze dried blood worms; not wet that is mostly water like live worms and I find it conditions them for breeding mood if fed every day. I use it once or twice a week just for extra protein.

Thanks bluelagoon, that’s what it thought. I bred a different pair with just BWs. I had this pair breeding but they broke up... :(, is that hat possible or are they still a pair that I can get breeding again? Let me know please, I actually thought about force pairing but I am not sure how to do that. Any info will help. I have 3 discus in my show tank r now, one 6” and two 5”. I was thinking of pairing them up. I have a spare 27g that I have cycled and setup and can use for breeding. I would like to get a different pair spawning. My dream is to have a small “farm” with two or three pairs.

Should I try repairing the broken up pair or should I try pairing my beautiful 6” with my female 5”. I do know the genders of my 5” but not sure about the 6”.

Thanks

[DiscusDish]

I will post a picture shortly of the blue one, I was actually wondering if I could put her in with the red ones? Would it be a good idea to breed her and the red Marlboro if they pair off? I have identified her as a female. She shows all body signs of a female, I may be wrong though, I will add pictures shortly. Let me know if red and blue will be a good mix or if I should stick to blue and blue. Thanks

[DiscusDish]

#1 the 6” female
#2 the 5” male
#3 the 5”female

[DiscusDish]

If you look at my profile picture it is of the 5” m and f, they got to wrigglers. Should I try them again? They look very nice when they are breeding. Or the 6” female with the 6.5” Marlboro male? Thanks

[DiscusDish]

The red pair honestly don’t seem interested in each other anymore. They swim at opposite sides of the tank, show no signs of “love” and don’t pay much attention to each other. I will try force pairing my red male with my blue female. I want to see what will happen. I know a lot will be peppered but I do want to try and get a new strain. I will cull the peppered ones and keep the pure ones. Should I do this? The male looks like he wants to breed but the sick female is not interested. Please let me know ASAP. Thanks

[DiscusDish]

Bump. I know that you can’t always be on here every minute but I need to know because I am moving my aquariums/setting up and I need to know who I am going to breed. Thanks

[DiscusDish]

Ok, I have moved the female red to a 27g by herself and moved he blue female in with the red male. They seem to really enjoy each others company. He is showing off and swimming after her very dominantly. Is he showing off or being aggressive? He is way brighter and his fins are erect. Is it normal for him to chase her and “flare”? Thanks

[danotaylor]

Your red is a PB and you blue is non PB. This is not a good pairing genetically and you will likely end up with very peppered fry which are undesirable. If you want to have your small "farm" for the purpose of selling fry this pairing would be a lot of work for little to no return as anyone who knows anything about discus would not buy their fry. I don't mean to be negative but just being truthful. Your red pair may still produce the goods and are by far better quality fish than your 3 Turks. They're showing no interest because the female is try to get over a major injury/illness. Time, clean water and good food is what they need. Discus do not like being alone. Your red female will suffer by herself.
Matt you seriously are rushing into this without really knowing what you're doing, and your lack of patience is gonna bite you in the bum mate. If your red male does bond with the blue female he may never go back to the only decent female you have to breed him with. Just sayin...

[DiscusDish]

Ok. I will move him back with his wife. I read a little online and I now agree. Thanks Danny.

[danotaylor]

Ok mate, cool. Keep an eye on the blue now as whatever pathogen attacked your red female may have been passed to your blue female from the red male. Prob need to watch them all closely for a while to make sure the Turks don't get cross contaminated. Good practice is to keep fish apart for a minimum of 6 wks after they have recovered from illness so just be watchful Matt.

[DiscusDish]

Thanks Daniel. ;)