New tank is almost ready!

[AquaticNerd]

Hi Everyone!

After doing tons of research online here at SimplyDiscus and some careful planning - my tank is starting to come together.

Some details about the aquarium - it is a PlanetAquariums Crystalline tank, with the dimensions 48x21x20, which is around 90 US Gallons (87 to be exact). The plan is to have a semi-planted tank, with structure on one side of the aquarium and open swimming space on the other. For filtration I'm using a Bashsea SS-36 sump containing MarinePure bio-block and bio-balls for biological filtration (filter sock for mechanical filtration). The past few weeks I've been working on getting all the supplies together and getting the tank plumbed.

My goal here is to purchase adult discus so my family can enjoy the tank faster and so I can spend time enjoying the fish without all the high maintenance of juvenile discus (been there). Anyways, the whole goal here is to post progress pictures, so here are pictures of the sump finally plumbed up (pardon the mess as well - I was still in the process of cleaning and organizing all my gear)!

Here shows the front of the sump with plumbing (what l and others will be seeing if the stand is opened
https://i.imgur.com/j3ORWqZ.jpg

And here shows the back - note that I still haven't cleaned off the sharpie marks for my alignment
https://i.imgur.com/GOfduMn.jpg

And finally my initial design for the driftwood pieces I have.
https://i.imgur.com/IVdwEgl.jpg

[BrendanJ23]

I love it. It looks so neat and clean, especially being a rimless tank. I like the simplicity and it should look nice with a few anubias/java ferns attached in and around the driftwood with maybe some val in the background . Might I ask what the purpose of the egg crate is?

[Shan_Evolved]

Very clean. What is the white mat in the tank? Whats it for?

[AquaticNerd]

Hi BrendanJ23, I appreciate the comments! You're right on track for what I'm kind of going for - I have some Anubias Nana 'petite' and some Flame Moss/Java Moss to go on the wood structure. I might even put a little val in the back, but haven't totally decided on it yet. :)

As far as the white mat on the bottom - that is an Egg Crate Light Panel (https://www.homedepot.com/p/Plaskolite-4-ft-x-2-ft-Suspended-Egg-Crate-Light-Ceiling-Panel-1199233A/202025149). I initially thought I was going to leave it in there to protect the bottom from wood and rocks, but considering the small amount of substrate that is going to go in the open swimming space would have left the egg crate exposed. I ended up taking it out, but it kept me from potentially scratching the glass when I was toying around with how I wanted the wood and other structure to look. After taking it out, I used it as a guide for the dimensions of the tank so I could tweak the layout of the hardscape further without any potential disasters.

Speaking of final layout, I think I've got my hardscape down, so here's what it will look like before getting moss on it. Also note that it's in its final location before filling. :)
https://i.imgur.com/BlIr8vP.jpg

[BasNL]

Looks great - very clean and elegant! Any idea about the stocking yet?

[AquaticNerd]

Thanks for that! My whole goal was to give a side of cover for line of sight breaks in case of aggression and a side of free-swimming space. I will probably modify the layout a little bit to give more free-swimming space.

I've been dreaming up this aquarium for quite some time and stalking Kenny's Discus ever since.

The plan here is to have all adults from the get-go, 6-8 depending on other stock. Bottom fish I'm looking to go with a group of 10 Sterbai Corydoras, and then the ever popular Cardinal Tetra for dither fish (maybe a group of 20 or so). For this setup, I'm thinking a mixture of blue/red discus (neon sapphire, tiger turquoise, blue scorp, etc) depending on what stock Kenny has when the aquarium is fully cycled. Discus are going in first, then planning on getting the others around the 4-6 month mark after I've had time to observe their behavior, make sure they're eating properly, etc.

[Shan_Evolved]

Looks fantastic! Only thing I would consider doing for aesthetics is to hang the lights. But it still looks good this way

[BasNL]

Sounds good. I would suggest getting at least 30-50 Cardinal Tetra. I initially started with 30 fish but was barely able to see them in an 80-gallon aquarium. Looking forward to following the process.

[AquaticNerd]

Couple of mistakes have happened so far.

1. The driftwood that I had been soaking for 2 weeks (mostly submerged) is still not waterlogged. Going on 4 weeks now without it sinking, so I'm starting to get worried that it won't ever sink. Hopefully by the time the tank has cycled it will sink.
2. The planted tank substrate that I used is affecting my water chemistry too much. My pH from the tap (after aging) is around 7.6-7.8. With the planted soil I'm using - barely exposed to the water column, my pH is sitting around 6.4. Too much of a pH swing for my liking and too risky for my future discus to deal with. I'm going to have to remove all the decor to get at the substrate and replace it with sand.

Another thinking I'm not really liking is my bio-media. Currently using a mixture of MarinePure bio-balls (which are fine) and MarinePure 8x8x4" block, which seems to be crumbling into pieces. Any recommendations for better bio-media? A reactor perhaps? Convert the middle of my sump into a complete MBBR section? Perhaps swap it out with all MarinePure balls?

[dspeers]

Couple of options with the drift wood. You can drill a few 1/8" dia holes into the back of the driftwood to get better water penetration or alternately attach to a slate base. I have drilled with 1/4 masonry bits (spray with water and don't push too hard) and then used a peg and gorilla glue (once cured this is completely inert). Epoxy is probably safe too once cured.

[guggas]

Is that "Seiryu stone" aka Ying Stone? You my want to look into how that will affect your PH also.

[BasNL]

Regarding your second issue, try a couple of water changes before pulling out the plant substrate. De pH drop is usually a lot higher initially and should become less pretty soon.

[Cove Beach]

You can also use marine grade stainless steel screws to secure the slate to the stubborn driftwood. I had 30 lbs sections that were corks!
You might take a look at Poret foam from Swiss Tropicals for your bio-media also.

[AquaticNerd]

Couple of options with the drift wood. You can drill a few 1/8" dia holes into the back of the driftwood to get better water penetration or alternately attach to a slate base. I have drilled with 1/4 masonry bits (spray with water and don't push too hard) and then used a peg and gorilla glue (once cured this is completely inert). Epoxy is probably safe too once cured.

I had some slate attached to it initially for the original soak - the only problem is that they were not in the orientation that they are in the display, and they'd be sticking up out of the display too much. :)


Is that "Seiryu stone" aka Ying Stone? You my want to look into how that will affect your PH also.

It is Seiryu stone - I've already used it to test with my aged water and it did not affect it. My aged water has a pH of 7.6-7.8. It has a KH of 6-7 (barely turned color at 6, fully turned at 7) and a GH of 10-11, which is pretty hard water IMO. After letting the rocks sit in the water for a week I didn't notice any affect on pH, GH or KH due to the hardness of my water already and the fact that it's already alkaline. I've read where it can affect the chemistry of your water, but everyone also seems to agree that it's mostly in soft and acidic water, where the acidity will eat at the carbonates in the stone. I also washed the stones in a Muriatic acid bath to get rid of most of the surface carbonates. :)

I've read where some users have coated the stones in marine-safe clear epoxy to seal the stones, but I don't want to go that route if I can help it. If it comes down to it, I'll remove the rock completely and find something more inert such as (Ohko) Dragonstone.


Regarding your second issue, try a couple of water changes before pulling out the plant substrate. De pH drop is usually a lot higher initially and should become less pretty soon.

I would like to try this, but I'm afraid if it doesn't settle down it'll affect my discus. Since I'm planning on adults of 6"+, they're going to be pretty costly and I can't take that risk. The plant substrate has to go. Just an excuse to start a fully planted tank :)


You can also use marine grade stainless steel screws to secure the slate to the stubborn driftwood. I had 30 lbs sections that were corks!
You might take a look at Poret foam from Swiss Tropicals for your bio-media also.

I'll have to take a look at Poret foam - the middle section of my sump isn't situated for it. I don't think they'd get enough flow through them to be of use, but the section next to my return might be good. Seems pretty cheap too so I'll check it out. Thanks!

[AquaticNerd]

A little progress update!

The tank is running great - still in the cycling process, just waiting for those nitrites to drop. Wood and rocks have started growing some diatoms due to the rise in nitrates from the cycle, so it's lights our for my moss and anubias (they 2 hours/day now).

I've been using 5 gallon buckets to lug water from my upstairs faucet to where the tank is located downstairs for water top-offs. I've finally had the time to fix the plumbing in the basement and put a valve in so I can easily fill my Brute can. Sharkbite fittings are great for exposed plumbing. My original intent was to solder the copper together with a tee, but I found out that my main shutoff inside my house doesn't close completely, so I had to resort to using some Sharkbites.

Ignore the water stain on the back of some of my drywall. I went to do my pressure testing and forgot that I left the valve open that's connected to the hose! :jester:

https://i.imgur.com/iZlkRMm.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/bYc3QqU.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/cd09AEl.jpg

[Cove Beach]

Are you planning on running the tap water through any kind of filter before it enters the barrel?

[AquaticNerd]

Our tap water quality is pretty good apart from the added chloramines and chlorine. I've tested the TDS and it's below 200 every time.

Is there a specific need to run it through a filter? I was always under the impression that the only reason I would need to use something like a 2-stage carbon filter or higher stage RO unit was if my water quality was low or pH swings are large after aging. My understanding was that as long as my pH is stable and TDS is low it should be safe and that domestically bred discus can be kept in pH of 7.6-7.8 without harm.

[danotaylor]

There's members here that successfully breed and raise domestic discus in pH's much higher, like in the 8+ range

[Cove Beach]

I would at least run it through a good sediment filter. You will be surprised how much crap comes out of “clean” tap water. Whether you run carbon or RO or anything else, aging the water over night is good practice. I have from the beginning, but after reading so many posts I went and checked ph at all the stages of my process. There was a big swing from tap to aged overnight, so any thoughts I might of had to rush things and skip aging are gone.

[AquaticNerd]

I'm considering a whole house sediment filter soon - considering my main shutoff valve doesn't close all the way, I'm looking to replace it and I think it would be a good time to install one. There's plenty of space near the shutoff for the filter to be mounted to the wall. With that said, I have lived in the same area my whole life and kept discus before without a sediment filter and they didn't seem adversely affected.

The water will be heated and aged at least overnight in my Brute can - I have a pond pump in there circulating water and an air pump for aeration and off-gassing. This is more for my sanity than anything - pH from the tap is only 7.8 to 8.0, and aging moves it down to 7.6.

Hence the reason why I wanted to remove my planted tank substrate - it was taking my pH from 7.6 to 6.4, and when I tested yesterday it was sitting lower than that. Way too much of a difference for my liking so I decided to remove it. There was no saving it either - as I started taking it out I realized it had degraded to the point of being almost mud. I ended up draining the entire contents of the tank and used my ShopVac to suck out all of the substrate I had in it. It was a mess. Luckily I had both my Brute can filled as well as a 40B QT tank sitting there so I was able to refill it with mostly aged and treated water. The pH has stabilized to my liking (sitting pretty at 7.6) and I was able to fix the floating driftwood with my stones for now. I've included a progress picture, but be kind because the location of the stones are not where they will likely end up permanently. :)

https://i.imgur.com/uUA9MvO.jpg

[Second Hand Pat]

Hi AquaticNerd, everything is looking good so far. One suggestion. The hose used for filling the brute container, is that a regular garden hose? If so consider replacing with a water-potable hose like an RV hose. Garden hoses have the interior of the hose coated with anti-mode etc coating which can be harmful to the fish.
Pat

[Cove Beach]

+1 on the hose change, never did like the taste of the water from the garden hose when I was a kid!

[AquaticNerd]

Hi Pat,

Thanks for the suggestion - yes it currently is just a standard "leader" garden hose. I'll take a look at changing it out with something more suitable.

[Sturiosoma]

Hi AquaticNerd, everything is looking good so far. One suggestion. The hose used for filling the brute container, is that a regular garden hose? If so consider replacing with a water-potable hose like an RV hose. Garden hoses have the interior of the hose coated with anti-mode etc coating which can be harmful to the fish.
Pat

I agree with Pat here garden hose also contains petroleum, you can get vinyl that comes with a phython from your home supply store and add garden hose fittings, through personal experience I don't like rv hose they work good if pressurized but not to remove water.

[AquaticNerd]

That's all the RV hose will be used for - it's getting full water pressure so I can fill the Brute can and QT tank which is right next to it.

For water changes I have a small pond filter that I drop into the tank to drain it. Only took about 20 minutes to drain the entire tank yesterday so I would think a 30% WC would only take me 15 to empty and then fill back up. I've got the RV hose on order so it should arrive tomorrow. I suppose I could have retrofitted some braided vinyl tubing I already have, but having one already made suits me better than having to go to the hardware store for what feels like the millionth time just for one more part.

[AquaticNerd]

I'm currently bamboozled by how fast the cycle went. Not sure if I can give credit to Dr. Tim's Live Nitrifying Bacteria or not, but my cycle has completed! :D

Using Fritz Pro Ammonium Chloride powder, I'm currently dosing 8ppm of ammonia every 24 hours, and test results at the end of that 24 hour period is 0ppm ammonia or nitrite! Guess it's time to start shopping for the inhabitants! :D

Current readings:
https://i.imgur.com/oElAHNT.jpg

[BasNL]

Looks great! I like the rock structure in general but I'd personally make it slightly less organized to promote a more natural look. Shape of the wood is awesome.

Some of those bacterial products really work. Just the be sure: did you also check for nitrates?

[AquaticNerd]

The rock structure isn't in its final state. A lot of those rocks are there simply because I need them to weigh down the driftwood. That big stone on the very right in the middle is one that isn't even going to be a part of the hardscape once the wood gets waterlogged.

I appreciate the caution on that one - I did indeed check for nitrates. It was probably higher than the reading since the solution was a dark burgundy, so I assume that it was at least 160ppm or higher.

I just placed an order with Kenny yesterday (he's great by the way) - the fish will arrive Tuesday. Throughout this week, I'll be maintaining the cycle by adding ammonia and performing WCs to keep the nitrates down.

[BasNL]

I see your point. Just a thought, I really liked how it was stacked in one of your first pictures.

Good to hear. Nice!

[AquaticNerd]

Yeah, the first few pictures of the tank when it was dry is the look I'm eventually going to go for. The idea there - it looks a bit more natural while also being able to hide the clean cuts on the end of the driftwood. :)

Thanks for your feedback! :)

[Mando]

Hi AquaticNerd, everything is looking good so far. One suggestion. The hose used for filling the brute container, is that a regular garden hose? If so consider replacing with a water-potable hose like an RV hose. Garden hoses have the interior of the hose coated with anti-mode etc coating which can be harmful to the fish.
Pat

What! I've been running my setup on garden hose for years. Time to change it up I guess.

OP, love your display tank! I like the combination of that rock and wood. very very nice :)

[AquaticNerd]

Thanks Armando!

My first delivery of fish should be arriving from Kenny this Tuesday, so I can't wait to see what it looks like with them in there! :)

[Second Hand Pat]

Thanks Armando!

My first delivery of fish should be arriving from Kenny this Tuesday, so I can't wait to see what it looks like with them in there! :)

How exciting Jake :D Be prepared for a mini-cycle. It generally lasts a week and do a 50% WC daily. This happens when you add a huge bio-load like discus to the tank. Takes a week for the bacteria to catch up.
Pat

[AquaticNerd]

Thanks Pat - I'll definitely be watching the ammonia and nitrite twice daily when I first get them just to make sure everything is going well, even though I'm not too worried about it considering my aquarium is still being dosed with 8ppm of ammonia/day and it goes down to 0 in less than 24hrs (about 18 hours each time due to my schedule).

With that said, I know I can never be too cautious with fish, so I'm still going to be taking measures to ensure that they are healthy and can thrive in the tank. :)

[AquaticNerd]

They've arrived! I am super excited to have them in the tank already. Kenny is a great guy - super helpful and really put my mind at ease by answering any questions I had. Just thought I would share a few pictures for everyone's pleasure. Please bear with me in these pictures due to the glare - I'm following a strict no-lights policy for about 24-48 hours to help them feel less stressed due to the shipping. They arrived at my door at about 9:30AM and have been doing great since. If I was a betting man, I swear they wanted food as soon as I put them in the tank.

Here's the group about 10 minutes after being out of the bag:
https://i.imgur.com/PrIGiQY.jpg

And here's some pictures about 10 hours later:
https://i.imgur.com/Gc9Bujc.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/JcOsXSb.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/t1B6tlo.jpg

[Mando]

Congrats! Nice shape. Kenny delivers!!!

[danotaylor]

Very nice!

[BasNL]

Great shape, indeed. New fish are always a nice moment, especially with a new setup!

[Second Hand Pat]

Hi Jake, great looking crew. The few times I have received fish from Kenny they will eat the first day in my experience :D
Pat

[AquaticNerd]

Thanks all!

Kenny did indeed deliver - I'm extremely happy with the group. I did discover that they did not want to eat the yesterday, even after a 24-hour no-feeding period. They were a lot more eager to eat this morning using Al's FDBW. :)

I really like just sitting at the tank and watching them - although they are still quite shy and enjoy the driftwood/rock cover on the left side of the tank. With that said, they were active this morning for their feeding. And that's also when I found the "punk" of the tank. One of the Fineline SS (3rd pic from above) is a bully to the other Fineline SS, even though he/she is about half an inch smaller. Lots of lip-locking, and body/tail slapping. I know this is common in cichlids. I'll have to keep my eye on them to make sure they're getting enough food and not stressed out.

[Pices]

Hi Jake,
I’m late to the party, but congrats on those beauties! Love the shape and markings. Love Kenny’s discus! I’m gawking at the pics and would get nothing else done if I had them in my living room. :)

[AquaticNerd]

Hi All,

You can find new photos below. A little update - they're all doing great and very voracious eaters. They seem to do okay with Sera Discus granules as well as Al's FDBW. They go nuts for the FDBW - I can barely get my hand in the tank to stick a cube or two to the glass before they're all hovering over my hands. Some will even nibble my fingers! I suppose that is my fault though, because they're already eating out of my hands and recognize me when I go to check in on them. My only difficulty so far is that they are not taking to flake food. I've tried several varieties and they just spit the flake out as soon as they put it in their mouth. Guess I'll be sticking to the granules and FDBW.

Anyways, let's get to what we're all looking for - pictures! :) I tried my best to get individual shots of each one, but my Forrest Giant Blue is the shy one of the bunch and I couldn't get a picture of that one without being in a group.

Fineline SS #1:
https://i.imgur.com/4TxcYks.jpg

Fineline SS #2:
https://i.imgur.com/nUWGS6E.jpg

Straightline Turq:
https://i.imgur.com/bg7QVG4.jpg

Ready for dinner:
https://i.imgur.com/f8b4shV.jpg

Group photo:
https://i.imgur.com/imcGoMZ.jpg

[AquaticNerd]

Quick update time!

The group I got from Kenny is doing fantastic! They're all eating like pigs and I haven't had any issues with disease or otherwise. Their colors have improved greatly since I last posted photos - I'll try to get some good ones this weekend.

One could say they're doing a little too well. I've currently got two pairs that have formed - one pair I posted about awhile back because I was surprised that they were only in the tank about a week before they spawned (this pair can be seen here (http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?136034-Are-these-viable-eggs)). They are both Leopards with Ring Gene.

And now I've got the second pair who spawned for the first time this week.
https://i.imgur.com/wa6sLrd.jpg
The female is a Forrest Giant Blue and the male is a Fineline SS.

What's everyone's thoughts on trying to take these pairs and commit to actually raising a group? Any of these pairs make sense?

[danotaylor]

The ring gene leopard pair is strain match so a great pair to work with. The FLSS x FGB is also a good pair to breed as they're both non-PB types, and you should get a good mix of SS & Turk types in their offspring.

[AquaticNerd]

Well, I figured it was time for an update for this tank journal.

For those who didn't follow, my group of 6 was whittled down to 5 back in March of this year, the other topic can be found here (http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?136473-One-Discus-Going-Dark). I put that behavior and subsequent loss down to being bullied by the other two pairs in the tank from all of the breeding behavior they were exhibiting. About 3 months ago, I lost my favorite of the group, the one labeled Fineline SS #1 in my post above, due to him jumping out of the aquarium - he pushed the makeshift lid I had on there completely off the tank and landed about 5.5' on the ground maybe 6" from the tank. With me working from home, I immediately heard the ruckus and went to see what had happened. He went into a hospital tank immediately with 4tbps salt / 10 gallons to try and help ward off any infections, but it appears that the fall had damaged him internally as he was never able to swim correctly. I tried what I could for a couple of weeks, but without any sign of getting better I made the choice to euthanize him.

After that experience, I decided that I needed to shake things up with my aquarium. First order of business was to address the lid situation. I bought a Red Sea DIY Net Cover (https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/customizable-diy-aquarium-net-cover-kit-red-sea.html). This works well, but does nothing to help with evaporation or keeping the heat in, so on top of that I added a Polycarbonate panel (https://www.amazon.com/Be-Cool-Solutions-Polycarbonate-Panel/dp/B0876CWKZT) which is secured using some discreet zip ties so the lid becomes one whole piece.

The second thing I needed to address was breeding. Out of the four I have remaining, they still continue to lay eggs. One pair is the Ring Leopard + Straight-line Turq and another pair is the Forrest Giant Blue and other Fineline SS. If you recall, my setup used to look something like this (http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?135755-New-tank-is-almost-ready!&p=1327929&viewfull=1#post1327929). It later became apparent that this scape wasn't going to work out long term. In my earlier post, the very middle of the tank where the wood goes vertical and curls back a little became the warzone when it came to breeding and both pairs continually fought over rights to that specific location. For that, I took a little more of an aggressive approach in order to separate out and provide specific "territories" where it would be more conducive to their breeding behavior without terrorizing the entire rest of the tank. The idea for me was to create several vertical surfaces that the fish could focus on for potential breeding locations and providing enough space between those vertical surfaces to where the fish wouldn't be eyeing each other 24/7. I took a little inspiration from Pat's breeding where there are two cones at opposite ends of aquarium. :)

I've included the results of about 6 hours worth of draining, sawing (with a hand saw), laying out, and rearranging the scape below. I think I came up with something that will work out well. Since I'm low on the stocking for discus and my aquarium can support it, I've made a new order with Kenny at Kenny's Discus and I should be getting 4 3R intermediates in the next few weeks! :)

P.S. I'll be removing some of the larger rocks in the middle to leave more open space on the bottom.

https://i.imgur.com/eePQt7U.jpg

[Acerrato]

What a beautiful group!!! I love them!!

[AquaticNerd]

Amanda, thank you for your kind words.

The newest members of the aquarium have arrived, and they are MASSIVE. They are extremely high quality. I feel kind of bad leaving them in the dark in the 40 breeder. Plus, they're already guilting me for not feeding them yet! I've included some images of them below - pardon the glare, the QT tank is only lit by overhead lights as there aren't any lights directly above it and I have yet to buy one. :)

The Entire Gang #1:
https://i.imgur.com/LEYGU4D.jpg

The Entire Gang #2:
https://i.imgur.com/K8AvHV5.jpg

Closeup #1:
https://i.imgur.com/mbv1XK6.jpg

Closeup #2:
https://i.imgur.com/v2B1IeZ.jpg

Closeup #3:
https://i.imgur.com/XoefPLf.jpg

[Shan_Evolved]

Damn them are some big ol discus