Re-designing the 240 into Discus purist biotope

[Xirxes]

Hello again!

I arrived on the forum way back and built some lackluster planted tanks with discus in 2008 or so, and I have been involved with aquariums and ponds since 2006.

I seem to have kept every type of aquatic critter now, have my own business ten years running dealing with all things Koi pond, lake and outside water feature and here I am again, about to take the plunge BACK into high quality discus this time.

Currently I’ve had a 240 glass aquarium that has been through at least 3 evolutions already, but is now built as a low tech planted naturalistic tank for tiger barbs with a few mollies for algae control, and one remaining nearly 10 year old Bushynose for wood.

I’m looking to rebirth the system as a dedicated Discus naturalistic biotope, with a few provisions to accommodate my needs.

I plan to strip the insides of tank, retaining the dragon stone and wood, to be cut up a bit more and presented as top down roots. I am thinking .5-1” of pool sand bottom that will be gravel vacuumed with a weekly water change of 30-40%. I will retain 6-7 bunches of the mature Anubias to secure directly to wood above substrate so as to eliminate as many pockets at bottom as possible.

In photos I’ve already been tinkering a bit and I’m going to really rip into it next weekend. I’ve removed background and will be managing wires but I really like the no background look.

Currently is filtered with only one FX6, but I just updated it with the “pimp my FX6” dual outside filters, full matrix centers and top center filled with poly fill as well as an intake prefilter.

I also added a two little fishies media reactor running 1 liter of Purigen, which then feeds an advantage 2000+ UV filter job return, all split from FX6 return. Lastly running a jeboa wavemaker that I’ll have to turn down for aeration.

I will be doubling up with an additional FX5 filter as soon as some plumbing arrives.

Plan is to have the system running and humming with wood, 100lbs of dragon stone, 3/4” PFS, a few Anubias, an old bushy nose, 2 FX5/6’s, fluidized Purigen and a UV when an order nearing 20 hopefully 3-4” discus come in from next months shipment to Kenny. I’m pretty set on having a single- strain Discus tank and I’m hoping to get a big lot of red discus, either Red Melon, Fuji Red, or even Penang eruptions.

I’m pretty set on keeping the tank at 85F and using local municipal water (8.0pH, 3-400ppm hardness) because the heavy RO burden of wc weekly would break me down over time. Kenny tells me that Forest ships and he imports and holds very close to these parameters for tank raised anyways.

I’m happy to hear anything I may have missed, or any tips/tricks/experience that will reap big rewards down the line.

I’ll be updating after the full swap is done.

[Xirxes]

Few pics here

https://flic.kr/p/2i7bMLg

https://flic.kr/p/2i7fifz

https://flic.kr/p/2i7bMNF

https://flic.kr/p/2i7egPE

https://flic.kr/p/2i7egQw

[JJOZ]

Just did the same thing with my tank, but did away with all plants completely for a while at least, the only little tip I can suggest is don't put your bushynose back in if you want your sand to look clean all the time, their constant rasping on driftwood and resultant mess becomes unsightly almost instantly !
You never would have noticed with that dark gravel but they are messy fish.
Cleaning up after one of them might not be so bad but I wouldn't get any more, a couple of flying foxes will keep the wood clean with hardly any mess instead.
Some cory's for the sand too will help keep it clean as they are always sifting through it.
Look forward to some more pics when it's done.

[Xirxes]

I know that the bushynose have large string poo, i do see it piled up, and the black substrate i have is great at hiding it. I will consider not putting him back in. As to corydoras, are Sterbai still the go to for 85F temps? I will consider them long term, but i really want to give discus the fullest consideration of parameters, not adjusting to any other fish. The other question i dont see adressed often is about snails. I have about 30 green an striped brown nerites in the system that i believe are doing good work and would like to keep if feasible.

[pantherlax]

Looks nice! I have a similar setup (though not a biotope as the anubias is from Africa, Manzanita from North America, Java fern from SE Asia, etc)

I'm keeping the temp @ 83-84 with Sterbais and a Bristle nose with no issues. Best of luck, can't wait to see it with discus in it!

Here is my setup:

126207

126208

[Xirxes]

Well after a much longer (8 hours) and much wetter (2 small floods) day than I had hoped for, the tank has been revamped for discus.

1fx5, 1 FX6, fluidized Purigen, uv and power head all working.

100% of substrate and fish out (except my ancient bushy nose), 120# of pool sand in I rinsed the crap out of it but between that and new matrix media it’s very cloudy.

Saved a few Anubias to attach to wood.

The wood and stone settled in a way I’m not too happy with, will re-scape over next few days to get it a bit more balanced and top-down root/branch looking.

The amount of waste that was hidden away under rocks and in anubias roots near substrate was insane. Making me think I may go without rocks altogether.

Heating up water now and looking forward to really dialing it in before discus arrive end of Jan.

https://flic.kr/p/2i7JRQH

https://flic.kr/p/2i7JRS6

https://flic.kr/p/2i7GmTa

Edit**Couldn’t let it sit like it was

https://flic.kr/p/2i7H1uY

[Xirxes]

After a bit of settling and 30% WC.

https://flic.kr/p/2i86Vje

[coralbandit]

Nice can't wait to se it stocked ..

[LizStreithorst]

After a bit of settling and 30% WC.

https://flic.kr/p/2i86Vje

That is the most beautiful Discus tank set up I have ever seen. I wish I could comment on your filtration but it's over my head. I use sponges or Matten filters. What are your stocking plans?

If the tank were mine I'd have both Bristlenose and Sterbai in it. You could have a large school of Sterbai in a 240. And I think that no Discus tank is complete without some BN. They poop, big deal. Isn't why we run the Python over the substrate? As for snails, I have some beatufiul Magenta Mystery snails that would be great in a tank like that. But then...This tank is not mine. I will look forward to what you do with it.

[Xirxes]

I kept the ancient Bushynose, i will be stocking with a big group of discus from Kenny’s next shipment in Jan.

A bit of a pickle here in the house because I’m pretty smitten with high color reds like Fuji red or even 3R, but my wife only really likes Super Red Tiger Turquoise, but of the spotted-red/blue I’m only fond of Penang or super eruptions.

We shall see what is available in the next import.

[Xirxes]

Teaser: 2 week countdown a few of the group incoming! Big thanks Forrest and Kenny!

https://flic.kr/p/2ibbHbV

Tank is clearing and I have sorted how to get a supply of temperature controlled fill water back in after weekly water changes!

[Second Hand Pat]

First, it is a gorgeous tank but have a question. What type of rock is that? and is it inert. It almost looks like limestone.
Pat

[RogueDiscus]

I'm assuming an artificial background, but those look like river rocks to me. One of my go-tos here. I think some kind of smoothed granite or similar. Never caused a problem in my tanks.

[Second Hand Pat]

Steve, zoom in on the photo. Flickr will let you do that. This rock looks like holey rock to me.
Pat

[Xirxes]

This rock is a Japanese Dragon stone. You can see it prominently in many ADA planted aquaria, which are often RO and soft water as well where it originally gained fame in aquarium culture, but it is actually inert, not hard but brittle more like a sandstone. If dropped it crumbles!

[AquaticNerd]

Xirxes is on the money there. You may have also heard it called Ohko Stone, Pat.

They're completely inert and are easy to make large structures out of since they can be easily "carved" to fit together tightly.

[Xirxes]

I think 2 weeks until fish arrive.

Latest vid after big clarity WC.

https://youtu.be/dThowAp8ZPM

Thoughts on aeration? I have all returns near top angled up and only one power head on lowest setting also pointing straight up.

[AquaticNerd]

Tank looks great! I love the "symmetrical" sides of it with free swimming space in the middle.

I personally don't think you need more aeration - the surface movement that you have should facilitate gas exchange well. Since you have everything pointing towards the top, my only concern would be stagnant areas in the middle/bottom of the tank where it doesn't get a lot of flow. In my tank, I like to have a single powerhead (in my case a wavemaker) on full blast moving water through the middle of the tank. Just my two cents.

[Mando]

http://youtu.be/dThowAp8ZPM

I have my aeration in the sump. I wanted a clean setup for the display itself. Any plans as far as plants? I love the simplicity of your tank with just stone, wood, and sand a lot! I'm going for a similar look but with cypress knees and some crypts at the base of each knee.

[Xirxes]

I was concerned for flow across tank, as my power head is adjustable, i can lower it down on side of aquarium and ramp it up to get same/more aeration and get a whole tank one-directional flow going very easily, but i have read that discus like the system to be without cross-flow, and this tank is just for them so not sure.

As to plants, i had many plants, but decided to go plant free on this build to focus on the fish themselves and the stark beauty of hardscaping.

[danotaylor]

Looks mint mate, really pleasing to the eye!

[Xirxes]

Getting the visible wiring/plumbing/lighting on point.

Daytime:
https://flic.kr/p/2idfg2M
Night:
https://flic.kr/p/2idfg2b

[Xirxes]

Not much to update here, last water change, filter clean and prep before fish arrive next week! Pics will come as soon as fish are in... will probably do a tank addition video

Wondering if anyone has experience playing with lighting color to enhance the red appearance of the fish without creating an unnatural hue to the aquarium as a whole?

Currently I’m running 2x 48” strips of 7000k (crisp white) led’s and I wouldn’t mind accenting with some cheap color enhancing strips as well.

[Xirxes]

Just doing last system service before fish arrive, siphon, 50% wc, purigen replace/recharge, thought I’d give a picture of the filtration under tank.

What you are looking at is a standalone FX5 that is Aquarium->filter->Aquarium factory parts.

Beside this is an FX6 that is Aquarium->filter->fluidized purigen bed-> split return between factory aquarium and 20 watt UV HOB return.

All of the ball valves function to direct the water and adjust flow to the fluidized bed and also to close it off for service loop.

This allows me to run a percentage , roughly 30% of my return through the purigen and UV, which gives me ~200gph there and 3-350gph back to aquarium on a bleed.

https://flic.kr/p/2ihbmKz
https://flic.kr/p/2iheRWd
https://flic.kr/p/2ihdPsX

[coralbandit]

Waiting anxiously for fish with you !

[Xirxes]

Waiting anxiously for fish with you !

Just got confirmation for Tuesday delivery! Stay tuned!

[Xirxes]

It’s fish day! Updates incoming
https://flic.kr/p/2ii6eNW

[danotaylor]

Gasp! What a teaser pic that box of fish is!!

[Xirxes]

Just added. Many vids/pics to come. Leaving them be for now

https://flic.kr/p/2ii7F9L

[danotaylor]

Beautiful mate. Love the contrast between the bright red discus and your hardscape. Looking forward to a full tank shot and some vids!

[coralbandit]

Wow !
Nice ...12 huh ?
They look good ..

[Xirxes]

https://youtu.be/hfyN4zYiWBU
https://youtu.be/G8te6uJ9gSA

[danotaylor]

http://youtu.be/hfyN4zYiWBU


http://youtu.be/G8te6uJ9gSA

[Xirxes]

Just watched that last video for the first time and the water coming out of the bag and the sounds are both hilarious and disturbing at the same time lol!

So I’m sorry and you are welcome at the same time.

[AquaticNerd]

Absolutely stunning! They look great! :)

[danotaylor]

Looking good mate! Show us a schooling vid once they've settled please!! Cheers

[Xirxes]

Looking good mate! Show us a schooling vid once they've settled please!! Cheers

Will do! I want to let them get to full coloration before I start doing real photography of them!

[Xirxes]

https://youtu.be/pbMNzBTGrdY

[danotaylor]

If you take the "s" out of https your vids will load like this;

http://youtu.be/pbMNzBTGrdY

[danotaylor]

I could sit in front of that for the rest of my life and be content!

[Xirxes]

That is a direct copy from YouTube! Thanks for info I will do!

[pantherlax]

https://youtu.be/pbMNzBTGrdY

Really impressive tank, scape & fish. Well done!

[Mando]

Wow, it's spectacular. Last night I was watching TV and something called my attention over to my tank. I just turned off the TV and soaked into the tranquility watching my discus in their new 180g. I would do the same with yours! The one strain tanks are getting me. Soon mine will be two strains but primary color is solid red.

[fljones3]

What powerhead or wave maker do you have on the side of the tank? How much flow do you have going through it? Did you come to a satisfaction on aeration?

[Xirxes]

Thanks for looking!



What powerhead or wave maker do you have on the side of the tank? How much flow do you have going through it? Did you come to a satisfaction on aeration?
This is a Jeboa pump/wavemaker and it is very affordable and strong. I actually have this on its LOWEST setting in the vid! it can create a whole tank one directional flow with ease, even 8 ft down and back, even at half strength! Between this pump and 5 returns from biofilters on the other end, it creates a very nice surface action that in turn creates pleasing lighting shimmer from LED as well as high oxygen content. Basically 50-60% of the aquarium's surface is rippling 24/7.


I did first big service of the filter and water change tonight since fish have been put in, getting fed 4-5x a day with Hikari frozen blood worms and FDBW. I have tried a few feedings of diskusgold, but they do not recognize it as food, so i will wait a few weeks until i go no food for a day, then SLOWLY feed the pellet in to train them to feed on it as well.

Nitrates were at 5ppm on WC day so i call that a success.

I am just figuring out the final bits of the newly re-designed system and today i made a noob error in doing siphon and WC BEFORE cleaning biofilter, as well as not bleeding off the first output after WC.... now the dirty fines fromthe cleaning and hose blew right back into tank... Lesson learned lol! running standalone fine filterfloss filter overnight to hopefully clear by morning.

Fish eat like piggies and seem to be able to clear 100% of the food between all 12 of them.

Feeding vids to come soon!

[bluelagoon]

One strain looks nice. Nice tank too.

[Xirxes]

Things moving along well here!

Upon advice from Kenny I have been feeding mostly frozen Hikari bloodworms, looks like I’m averaging about 2oz a day through 4-5 feedings a day. They finish off 100% of the worms I feed over the course of about 12 mins.

I usually also feed 3-4 freeze dried black worms cubes from Al, 1 cube at a time and although they rip into it, it seems that roughly 15% of this ends up floating and they don’t seem to like these, taking up to 30 mins to clear last of floaters.

Question for any old-hats lurking about: I am wanting to start weening them onto the DuskusGold beef heart pellets and finally Hikari discus biogold pellets as well.

Should I give them two full weeks on FBW and FDBW before the pellet only repetitive low feed to get them eating it or should I start now and lessen their dependence on the worms?

[Xirxes]

Today’s update: The first pair attempted breeding. The eggs were eaten shortly after but hoping for better news down the line. Plans are to divide tank and grow to free swimming/free eating young then take them across town to a fish warehouse that is willing to raise them up on consignment.

I just added Hikari frozen brine shrimp to the daily menu and this seemed to invigorate the fish unlike other foods. Not sure if this primed the spawning, but the timing is right.

I’ve cut down the amount of food per feeding, in order to keep 5x feeding per day and keep my nitrates below 5ppm at weeks end.

I’ve also found that, although it looks hideous, the inclusion of homemade 2l bottle fine polishing filter is a requirement to keep my water gin clear. I use about 8” ball of polyfill and it completely fouls in 3 days time. The filter is super easy to clear and replace the floss.

Updating as things come here as a bit of a journal.

https://flic.kr/p/2isT8PX

[Second Hand Pat]

:D

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49530963537_d1fcd090a4_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2isT8PX)3R discus first spawn (https://flic.kr/p/2isT8PX)

[pastry]

:D

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49530963537_d1fcd090a4_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2isT8PX)3R discus first spawn (https://flic.kr/p/2isT8PX)

OMG! Those 3R look amazing!!!!! I just ordered 2 from Kenny this month + 1 more RR.

[Xirxes]

Testing out Gopro 4k video of the fish today.... always begging.


http://youtu.be/MSvpW6fgTAU

[danotaylor]

Very nice mate!! The smaller ones are noticeably bigger already. Did anything come of the spawn you reported recently? Cheers

[Xirxes]

There have been two attempts so far, good number of eggs, and either unfertilized or just eaten due to some other factor.

Two of the largest were cleaning wood and making trial passes yesterday, which I spent some time trying to film, but I think they will lay today.

I think they are getting their practice in.

I do not have clearance to add breeding tanks from my CO. Just enjoying natural behavior for now.

[Sturiosoma]

Things moving along well here!

Upon advice from Kenny I have been feeding mostly frozen Hikari bloodworms, looks like I’m averaging about 2oz a day through 4-5 feedings a day. They finish off 100% of the worms I feed over the course of about 12 mins.

I usually also feed 3-4 freeze dried black worms cubes from Al, 1 cube at a time and although they rip into it, it seems that roughly 15% of this ends up floating and they don’t seem to like these, taking up to 30 mins to clear last of floaters.

Question for any old-hats lurking about: I am wanting to start weening them onto the DuskusGold beef heart pellets and finally Hikari discus biogold pellets as well.

Should I give them two full weeks on FBW and FDBW before the pellet only repetitive low feed to get them eating it or should I start now and lessen their dependence on the worms?

If you rehydrate your blackworms in hot water they will sink, and also a little more variety in their diet may improve your success rate

Jeanne

[Xirxes]

If you rehydrate your blackworms in hot water they will sink, and also a little more variety in their diet may improve your success rate

Jeanne

I have a love/hate relationship with this topic. I have spent no little time/thought on it as well.

I successfully feed FDBW, Hikari Frozen bloodworms and Brine shrimp.

I have attempted numerous times to feed a frozen turkey/pellet blend, hikari discus biogold, DiskusGold beefheart crumbles, 3 different flake types, and tetra colorbits.

Each of these is completely rejected.

So the question is only being in tank 1 month, is it better to feed them 2x FDBW and 1x FBW and 1x FBS where they are visibly growing, fattening, healthy colored.....

Or starve them for over a week to force them to eat some new food they don’t recognize as food now.

It’s really not apparent which is healthier to them at this point. I have 2 vacations this year, one of which is a full week long that I will not have them fed during and plan to only feed the frozen ground turkey with both ground pellet types in it when I return.

[Xirxes]

I knew it. Just as expected.


http://youtu.be/-1R3k8PpnAk

[Sturiosoma]

I have a love/hate relationship with this topic. I have spent no little time/thought on it as well.

I successfully feed FDBW, Hikari Frozen bloodworms and Brine shrimp.

I have attempted numerous times to feed a frozen turkey/pellet blend, hikari discus biogold, DiskusGold beefheart crumbles, 3 different flake types, and tetra colorbits.

Each of these is completely rejected.

So the question is only being in tank 1 month, is it better to feed them 2x FDBW and 1x FBW and 1x FBS where they are visibly growing, fattening, healthy colored.....

Or starve them for over a week to force them to eat some new food they don’t recognize as food now.

It’s really not apparent which is healthier to them at this point. I have 2 vacations this year, one of which is a full week long that I will not have them fed during and plan to only feed the frozen ground turkey with both ground pellet types in it when I return.

Maybe I should have explained a little further about being successful, obviously you are because you have a spawn, but sometimes you can improve hatch percentage with a tweak of their diet maybe some live blackworms, red wigglers and omega one veggie flakes and congrats on the spawn

Jeanne

[Xirxes]

Annnd.... another one bites the dust. All eaten at 3 day mark.

I am convinced that these were actually fertilized and that our liquid rock (Tap water with 10+ dGH) calcifies the eggs.

I have had communal free swimmers with previous tanks and previous discus, but they were always 95% RO DI systems.

Looks like if I do a month worth of RODI water changes I can get the eggs to hatch... not sure if it’s worth the hassle, especially since I could only block them off in tank, as I’ve gotten the hard negative from my CO for more aquariums.

I suppose it’s good to know that they are in full health and comfort to support breeding.

[Xirxes]

Nearing 2 months update. Definite size adding on all, most noticeable in outline of younger and width of older


http://youtu.be/iPb199q9Uz4

[Johnny95132]

Wow, they are definitely thriving from the looks of it. What a nice color choice btw.

[danotaylor]

Definitely growing and looking great mate!!

[Raphael.dalmeida]

Pantherlax
What kind of sand you are using and the smooth rocks ?
I really like this texture of sand, really nice.


Looks nice! I have a similar setup (though not a biotope as the anubias is from Africa, Manzanita from North America, Java fern from SE Asia, etc)

I'm keeping the temp @ 83-84 with Sterbais and a Bristle nose with no issues. Best of luck, can't wait to see it with discus in it!

Here is my setup:

126207

126208

[AquaticNerd]

From their first post, it looks like the sand is PFS (Pool Filter Sand).

The rocks look like what I've commonly heard as "River rock" or "creek stone", similar to what you can find here (https://www.amazon.com/Ultra-Large-River-Rocks-Painting/dp/B07XLGQPDN), but larger. Usually specialty landscaping stores have them.

[Adam G]

Tank and fish look awesome. Can you tell us your current maintenance routine/water change schedule? Do you move all the rock work and shake it out during tank cleanings? Do you gravel vac the sand and if so how often? Whatever you are doing is working for you. Thanks!

[FischAutoTechGarten]

Here is my setup:
126207



Nearing 2 months update.

http://youtu.be/iPb199q9Uz4

Those are some of the absolute nicest displays of domestic strains I have ever seen. Breathtaking aquariums!

[Adam G]

Tank and fish look awesome. Can you tell us your current maintenance routine/water change schedule? Do you move all the rock work and shake it out during tank cleanings? Do you gravel vac the sand and if so how often? Whatever you are doing is working for you. Thanks!

Just carefully read through your thread again and found answers to most of my questions.:)

[Xirxes]

We are getting used to the Covid Cabin fever here, but here is just over 2 month update.

Seeing noticeable growth on the smaller ones, active spawning all the way to fungused eggs looks like 1 female 3 males of the 4 large fish. I like the process but have no intention of setting up a whole breeding rack for them currently.

System is working well so far with these processes:

2x weekly swapping fine filter floss in DIY power head 2L polishing filter (damn its ugly but I love this thing)

Weekly 60% WC, Temp controlled tap straight into aquarium after dechlor, 100% gravel vac and heavy disturbance under the rock work to get out all gathered waste.

Bi-weekly swap/recharge of purigen media in reactor.

Monthly service of alternating FX6 biofilters.

Feeding daily 3 feedings, 4 cubes FDBW, frozen hikari brine, frozen hikari bloodworms.

Will switch to Color enhancing FDBW next month and will document change closely.

Latest vid:


http://youtu.be/uN_u6-gUGaw

[danotaylor]

Looking good mate!

[pastry]

Definitely have to reiterate that I love the heck out of your tank!

[Xirxes]

Thanks for following! Glad you like it.

For a real take on day to day if I go 3-4 days beyond a week for water change I start to get a diatom buildup on sand, and I have decreased lighting to about 8 hours a day to minimize this.

I’m playing with the idea of dropping the temps in tank from 86 to 84 after all fish reach 5” in perhaps 6 months time to keep food costs in check, as the 12 cost about $40/month of food and is really like to keep that as a max going forward even though they will need more per feeding.

[Xirxes]

Latest video, long Covid-Based relaxation vid. Enjoy


http://youtu.be/lZvtvotWdHg

[Xirxes]

Started feeding the Red Enhancing FDBW today and, like every other attempt to get these fish a “better” food, they do not take to it as readily as original FDBW. I was assured by more than three that all their fish take it just as well as original, but only ravaged 3 of 5 cubes and seem content to leave the other two be.

Time shall tell but I’m going to take photos of the smaller ones with a few yellow areas still to track the time to color change, if there is any.

[tacks]

nice tank Ed

[number1sixerfan]

I have a planted tank that a group of grown discus are about to go in. I'm not as happy with it as I expected to be, as the plants are really growing too fast and overtaking the tank. (going to reduce them heavily before they go in).

But I'm going to be adding a 125 that I plant to be much simpler and favorable to the discus and this tank and thread is the perfect reference. What an amazing tank. I love the simplicity, cleanliness, color and room for the discus. Excellent job. Subscribing!