Shan's First Discus Journey

[Shan_Evolved]

Hi everyone! I am Shan and I'm an amateur fish keeper. I've dabbled in community setups, planted tanks, and on the summer of 2019 I came across a buddy of mine who had a couple of gorgeous discus. At the time I didn't know what they were but I was instantly swept away. I just had to have some.

I spent the next few months (August 2019-November 2019) researching and lurking these forums to learn as much as I could before finally starting my project.

I am so excited!

I began with a plan - I wanted to experience raising discus to the best of both mine and their potential. This meant daily 90% PWC and as many feedings I could (at least 4).

With the help of a friend I made through my local aquarium fb group, we made a stand for my brand new 55. I also painted the underbottom a sand color paint and added my touches on the back panel.

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I got a 55 aging barrel as well and have been practicing water changes recently. I have 2 powerful 1/6hp and a slightly less powerful aquarium pump to drain water and help with water changes. I have been fishless cycling the tank since early December of 2019 and it seems to be fully cycled!

I recently purchased some manzanita wood and will be adding it to the tank shortly.

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I am driving up to Hans this Sunday to get 12-14 juvenile discus with nice round bodies and small eyes.

HYPE! Will post more pictures as I continue to add more to the tank!

Wish me luck!

[LizStreithorst]

How exciting! It seems that you've done a lot of reading. I'm looking forward to seeing you progress. Have you decided on what strains you want yet?

[Mando]

I love the Love and Peace back ground!! great stand. I hope that your journey is a flawless one. Welcome to the forum although you've been lurking for months!

any ideas on the strain you're going to keep?

[Shan_Evolved]

Thank you guys! Yes I have an idea roughly.

Starting with

3x Brilliant Turqs
3x German Wonder
3x Cobalts
2x White Leopard
2x Pigeon Blood (Orange)


I'm not sure if the white leopard is pigeon blood and whether or not I should even mix them in case I get the breeding itch in a year or two

[LizStreithorst]

The white leopard sounds like a PB to me and of course your orange pigeons are. If you think you may want to breed I would go either with all Pigeons or all non pigeons. Otherwise, just get what rings your bell.

[Second Hand Pat]

Hi Shan, the tank looks great and glad to see you have been reading up and sound prepared. Looking forward to see what you do fish wise. Once your juvies are settled and doing well what's your next step. I see another tank in your future. :D
Pat

[Shan_Evolved]

Thanks Pat! Hopefully they don't outgrow the 55 too soon. I'll be upgrading to a 90 then!

After talking with Hans I think I may get some pigeon blood mixed in with my nons and worry about breeding later. Maybe two years down the line. For now let's just see how I grow them out and will focus on learning.

[Shan_Evolved]

Trip to Hans was long, but totally worth it. Had a great time with Hans. RIP Ravens.

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Got home super late (9hr trip) but the fish were great and acclimation didn't take long. They eagerly ate right away and I dimmed the lights right after to let them adjust.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ApzQu-v6Nmg&feature=youtu.be

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[Shan_Evolved]

Week 2 Update.

Appetite seems to have increased. I'm feeding them as much as I can on the days I have off (5-6 feedings). But usually weekdays they get fed 3 times BH and flakes while im at work. Loving them so much. Water changes are becoming habit, enjoying all aspects of keeping these babies. =D


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YElAMA4-mCs&feature=youtu.be

[Shan_Evolved]

In the middle of week 3 and I seem to have noticed a bit of an issue, hopefully not a big one. I have acted accordingly.

While doing my daily 90% WC, I noticed some teeny tiny little worm/slug like things on my glass. They are so small and only stick to the glass. From researching what it could be, I am steering towards Planaria as they don't seem long or exhibit the same behavior as Detritus worms. Then again I have 0 experience with these.

I have always siphoned out extra food 2-3 hours after a feeding, but definitely at least 2 times a day. Especially before /during my big water change at night. I think the culprit was my cannister filter. I haven't cleaned it since I started the tank cycling process. I spent 3 weeks away from the tank out of town in which I used flake food on a timer once a day while I was gone.

Even though I use a prefilter and rinse everyday, I feel it might have gotten dirty inside the cannister so I took it apart to take a look at it.

BROWN GUNK! Just full of brown stuff everywhere, and dirty water. So I rinsed the inside of the cannister, all the ceramic media, until the water rinsing came out cleanish. I took the tubes apart and cleaned them with pipe cleaner until they looked new. (I rinsed with tap water hope it's not a big deal). Then I put it back together and added dechlorinater before reattaching to tank.

I will keep an eye on the glass and see if the problem goes away.

[Mando]

Is your canister your only source of filtration? Never clean with tap and always use tank water to rinse media. You might have restarted your cycle so keep an eye out for water parameters.
If you feed those juvies once a day you will stunt them. I would not worry about those little white worms.

[fljones3]

Do you turn off your canister for feeding? I turn mine off for 10-12 minutes and then turn back on. No issues with biological filtration. Keeps the canister cleaner longer (even with prefilter.

[Shan_Evolved]

Do you turn off your canister for feeding? I turn mine off for 10-12 minutes and then turn back on. No issues with biological filtration. Keeps the canister cleaner longer (even with prefilter.


Brilliant idea. I do notice small pieces of food and poop get stuck behind the pre filter area but I usually scoop it up when I siphon.

Also Mando, I feed them minimum 3 times a day. Weekends I do 5. I also have auto feeders giving out flake food while im at work every 3 hours. When I get home I feed them Hans BH every 3 hours until large WC then bedtime.

The worms seemed to have gone away. Ill look closer once I do my WC today.

As far as restarting my cycle. Oops. But I'm not too worried about it with daily 90% WC. I'm sure it'll fix itself up. Lol Hopefully. I did rinse them with tap water but put the sponge back in chlorinated water right away (withint 10 minutes).

[Willie]

If you're changing water that frequently, you don't really need mechanical filtration. I'd just stick with the sponge filters and that'll be more than enough. I squeeze mine weekly, but that's probably more often than it needs. Keep up the W/C's and the Stendkers will be huge before you know it.

Good luck, Willie

[Shan_Evolved]

Thanks for the reply Willie.

Are you sure I don't need the cannister? I mean I could totally put in another sponge but I have a knack in my head saying the cannister filter will help keep my water clean and my tank cycled in case I have to leave for a few days. I'm worried about leaving them without a big WC more than a day. My cannister filter is primarily filled with bioballs and some crushed coral. Barebottom was hard to cycle without any PH stabilizer. I had so many PH crashes

[Willie]

If you're changing 90% of the water daily, then the water in your tank is essentially the same as the water in your geographic water table. I change 100% daily and the water going in is the same as the water going out. (My water is conditioned 24 hours.) As far as the fish are concerned, pH, KH, GH do not change. That's the beauty of large water changes. If you're changing this much water, there are no pH crashes at all. I'd get rid of the crush coral.

Your sponge filter is the most biologically active bacterial reservoir because of the availability of oxygen. Canister filters are typically limited by the amount of oxygen, so bacterial growth is much less robust than open filtration systems. In addition, the amount of surface area is a sponge is orders of magnitude larger than what's available in bioballs. I've converted my entire fishroom to running only sponge filters. They also never accumulate gunk.

Good luck, Willie

[Shan_Evolved]

Fourth Week of having them, and I'm starting to see some growth. Considering they're about 16 weeks old, I'm gonna have to get a bigger tank sooner than expected.

Nothing new to report. Missed a night of WC (ohno) because I forgot to turn on the aging barrel's heater/bubbler. derp.

Waiting on my order of SD's FDBW to start mixing into their diet this week. Woo.

Some update pics

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[eugenefish]

If you're changing 90% of the water daily, then the water in your tank is essentially the same as the water in your geographic water table. I change 100% daily and the water going in is the same as the water going out. (My water is conditioned 24 hours.) As far as the fish are concerned, pH, KH, GH do not change. That's the beauty of large water changes. If you're changing this much water, there are no pH crashes at all. I'd get rid of the crush coral.

Your sponge filter is the most biologically active bacterial reservoir because of the availability of oxygen. Canister filters are typically limited by the amount of oxygen, so bacterial growth is much less robust than open filtration systems. In addition, the amount of surface area is a sponge is orders of magnitude larger than what's available in bioballs. I've converted my entire fishroom to running only sponge filters. They also never accumulate gunk.

Good luck, Willie



I am a big fan of large WC for discus too. When I grown out my discus from quarter size to 4 inches, I do 2 x 90% WC per day. They are really healthy and happy :) :)

[Shan_Evolved]

After I had cleaned the canister filter last weekend thoroughly, I had thought I got rid of the planaria but they are still here. On today's WC, I see a lot more than before. I am also having a hard time keeping my sponge filter clean as I am rinsing it in the tank water almost everyday. It seems to build up with poop. This is probably because I tried something different - - I used the sponge part of the sponge filter as the pre filter for my 525 sunsun canister.

What should I do to get rid of these planaria? I am only feeding enough to where they finish and scoop up leftovers within 10 minutes. I also turn the filter off during feeding and only turn it back on after I siphon.

I do daily 90% WC.

Feed BH 3-5 times a day and siphon out immediately.

Wipe everything down 1-2 days.

Running 1 sponge and 1 canister filter of which I recently cleaned up.

Here is a picture for reference.

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P.S. Fish are super fine and growing. Poop looks normal as well

[Willie]

I suggest you look at the canister again. Soak all the biostuff in 20% Clorox for 20 minutes and replace all the foam. That's where the planaria can hide. Your existing sponge filter can handle the biological filtration load with no problem. Frankly, there's little need for mechanical filtration if you're doing 90% water changes.

Willie

[seanyuki]

Perhaps add a pre filter for the canister..... https://fluvalaquatics.com/us/product/edge-pre-filter-sponge/


Pre filter sponge on EBay.com......... https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2380057.m570.l1311.R1.TR11.TRC1.A0.H0.Xpr e+filter.TRS0&_nkw=pre+filter+sponge&_sacat=0

[Shan_Evolved]

I might just have to omit the canister all together. However I haven't had any luck finding a pre filter that would actually fit my inlet vertically (always leaves a tiny bit of space.) I can do some more digging around and try a different pre filter. Or just as Willie says omit the canister all together

[Shan_Evolved]

A lot of my bunch are starting to push 3" now. Some of them look massive and I couldn't be happier. Still doing daily water changes and lots o feedings. The planaria went away with the help of a prefilter that actually fits and I am doing a better job of rinsing it every WC.

They are eating FDBW out of a cone once a day, they all love them.


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One thing though, one of my Cobalts recently starting ignoring food all together and would hang out in a corner looking sad and depressed. Then I started to notice that all the fish wouldn't finish they usual serving of beefheart. I always find a good bit left over which seemed unusual. I raised the temp to 88 and added some epsom salt and lo and behold the next day -

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I immediately went to petco and got some API gen cure which I will be administering until I can order bulk from JEHMCO tomorrow. Until then I will follow instructions per the API gen cure box and dose 5 packets for my 55 and leave for 48 hours.

Couple of questions to anyone reading this, please correct me if I am doing wrong (most info I got from here)

-88 F
-big WC after 48 hrs instead of 24
-less beefheart, some FDBW and bloodworms during treatment
-watch closely

I am wating for a stronger heater to arrive this week so I can raise the temp to 91.

Please let me know if this sounds good or nay

[Shan_Evolved]

Rough times, I knew it might happen but still hurts - -

The cobalt that had the white stringy poop turned real dark this afternoon and now is floating awkwardly occasionally turning upside down. He's struggling to swim obviously and I haven't seen him eating still. Its crazy cause he just stopped eating barely more than a day ago.

Not sure if he'll survive the night, not sure what I could have done differently... Guess we'll see

Edit: He died. Should I continue the metro treatment for the whole tank?

[danotaylor]

Sorry to hear Shan. Tough loss mate. I would continue the treatment for 10-12 days as hex is a common tank parasite. The complete treatment will greatly reduce pathogen nunbers by disrulting the life cycle and protect any othrr stressed fish from succumbing. Condolences bro:(

[Shan_Evolved]

Kk will do. It's just insane to me that she died so quickly. I barely had a day to respond to him

[danotaylor]

That is unusual for sure, especially since fish can live with hex for a long time. It may not have been the primary cause, but if you cut the metro treatment short you run the risk of the parasite developing resistance to it in your tank. Watch your other fish close for loss of balance. Perhaps the deceased discus had a swim bladder infection which is usually bacterial. Any swelling in abdomen?

[Shan_Evolved]

No swelling in abdomen. In fact no physical issues whatsoever noticeable apart from loss of color two hours before death. it was doing the corner stare and swam normally not even 7 hours before death. Only thing I've done differently this week is add FDBW into diet. I still continued to do daily 90% PWC with aged water at 86F to match. I have a checker app that helps me remember to add prime to barrel before WC.

One strange thing that started a few days ago was that all the discus stopped destroying their BH feedings. Usually fed them about two small dime sized pieces which they would usually eat like 90-100% of it within 5-10 minutes, but recently they started to only eat 50% or less of the beefheart. Not sure whats so different. It has been in the freezer since purchase in a properly sealed container and I thaw only hours ahead of feedings if not a day.

[danotaylor]

That's also unusual feeding behaviour. Your wc routine is also perfect, right down to adding prime as you do the wc. I hope someone with more longevity with discus can offer some assistance mate

[Shan_Evolved]

Two of them definitely look stunted and I'm wondering if it has anything to do with the worm issue. Anyways I'll be treating them next 14 days with both metro and prazi.
Any experts with opinions welcome. Here's a quick video of them eating.

P. S. Tank is at 88F atm and I want to raise it to 92 for the next 10 days. Is a gradual raising necessary or can I go straight to 92?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cnXkCO2bVL4&feature=youtu.be

[Willie]

None of them look stunted to me. That been said, when you grow up 10 young discus, some are grow a lot bigger than the others. They seem all to be eating very well.

Metro is for intestinal worms. Do this treatment when you see white, stringy feces. Prazi is for gill flukes, generally not a problem until they spawn. All medication will set the fish back. If they're sick, then there's no choice. But I wouldn't do anything unless you can confirm the disease.

As for temperature, I'd recommend you adjust the heater to 82 - 84F. You can do that immediately and the water temperature will drop on its own.

Willie

[Shan_Evolved]

Thanks for the knowledge Willie, much appreciated.

I hope they are doing okay and on track as I have no experience prior. I have been working hard to do everything the right way. I have noticed 2 of my 15 are smaller than the rest but from looking at their eye to body ratio it's hard to believe they aren't stunted. I will love them either way. For example the two Marlboro reds I got were roughly the same size a month ago when I got them, but just looking at them side by side today the difference is huge. I'll try and update with individual pictures whenever I get a chance.

From my earlier post on the previous page, I have definitely identified white poop from the cobalt that died shortly after. Also the following morning I saw a little bit of white poop from another discus as well hence the metro treatment. I will dose double the JEHMCO dosage per gallon as soon as many of this site have recommended in previous posts.

As far as Prazi, I read a quarantine procedure and they used Metro and prazi in conjuction so I was just following suite. I haven't added it yet and if it's just for flukes I will abstain from doing so. (I'll just keep it on hand since it expires in 2 years).


The temperature recommendation I do not understand which to follow. I am reading about raising temps to 91+ in order to help kill intestinal parasites along with the metro, and Hans has been keeping his discus at normal health at 86-87. I always thought 84F was for a more adult discus and discus that weren't being treated for white poop

[Willie]

Hi Shan;

I've kept discus at 93+ without killing any intestinal parasites. However, metro at the correct dosage always work for me. You can certainly keep discus at higher temperatures, although it will reduce their life span. I keep mine at 82F and use a high temperature only to break a fasting spell.

Hans is an extremely knowledgeable guy, but his role is that of a reseller. He wants his fish active and hungry, but he's not keeping them long.

Willie

[Shan_Evolved]

Got my finnex non-thermostat heater and medicine from JEHMCO two days ago. Could not recommend them enough. Fast 2 day shipping, affordable pricing, absolutely recommend. 10/10

My hygger heater only went up to 88 so my tank was roughly sitting at 87 or less. I moved on from general cure to using actual metro but I had a bit of a mishap anyways ->

I measured out 400mg dosage which when translated to the container instructions turned out to be 0.67 teaspoons for my 55 gallon. So I used a 1/2tsp + half a 1/4 tsp (eyed it) while I did a 90% PWC. Felt real good to be able to do a large water change daily again. I've been skipping a day for the past 4 days to treat with general cure per their recommendations. Funny how I actually missed doing a big water change rather than enjoy it. :p

I started to add 1 tblspoon Epsom salt per 10 gallon during my large WC as well.

I also added the finnex heater and upped the temp to 89F. 12 hours later I just bumped it up to 90. I'll be changing it to 91 when I get home today and then continue until I hit 94 (aiming for 92-93 tank temp). I plan on leaving it at this temp for 2 weeks until I bring it down to 84 as willie suggested.

My fish are still ignoring their BH mix. I'm going to try and make a homemade BH mix using Brian's recipe he so kindly shared with me sometime soon. But fortunately most of them are eating Al's FDBW and bloodworms so I will be feeding them mostly FDBW and bloodworms occasionally. I'm also pretty sure they eat the flake food from my auto feeder as it's all gone when I get home.

HOWEVER, I still have a 2-3 fish that I noticed will not eat at all. One of which had white poop 2 days ago. It's been a few days and I'm worried they're gonna end up like the one I lost last weekend. God I pray not but I'm trying to do everything right so..yeah. At least I haven't noticed white poop recently. I'm not sure how to tell if the treatment is working well because they still aren't eating. But I'll be patient.

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I did screw up though. I was so busy cleaning the filter and measuring out the dosages and pouring it in properly as it mixed with flow and adding the heater that I forgot to add prime.

Sh*t.

After I filled the tank up all the way almost immediately I noticed a couple of my fishes darting and moving erratically. It hit me almost immediately and I teleported to my closet to grab the prime next to my aging barrel and poured in a whole capful + a bit more into the tank.

Worst night yet. I worried like a Harvard grad intern on his first job man. But it seems like they're doing okay now. I'm still an a:bandana::flame:hole for making them go through that. smh

[Willie]

[QUOTE=Shan_Evolved;1334006]...Felt real good to be able to do a large water change daily again. I've been skipping a day for the past 4 days to treat with general cure per their recommendations. Funny how I actually missed doing a big water change rather than enjoy it..../QUOTE]

Borderline obsessives make the best discus keepers. ;)

[timvriens]

they are looking good and as said, some grow faster / bigger then others, nothing to worry about
I hope you sort your problems soon, so you can go back to enjoying the fish for 100% and not worry all the time ;)

[abijitr]

Don’t worry about the growth rate, I have had Hans’s Stendkers for about an year and they all grow at different rates.

Hans is a great guy!!! and his fish are fantastic!

[abijitr]

If you have carbon in your filtration system try replacing it, it definitely helps in such situations.

[Shan_Evolved]

I'm not worried about the growth rate. I only planned on keeping maximum 10 and I have plenty in the group that are growing well. I enjoy them a lot but im worried about their current state of not eating anything at all. I also dont deal with any carbon block, in fact I got rid of the canister all together.

Please see this thread

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?136361-Seems-to-be-getting-worse-getting-worried&p=1334147#post1334147

[abijitr]

Cool! My discus were going on and off on eating as well. My latest trick appear to be working and here it is:
- I have two automatic feeders in which I rotate different types of feed - Hans flakes, Sera granules, Hikari bio gold, Cobalt pellets, Al’s Discus goldplanktus
- Feeding time is 9 AM, 3 PM & 9 PM
- at the time of feeding, my filtration, air pump, slimmer - everything stops
- first feed drops at 9 AM and second feed drops at 9:10 AM, same 10 min interval is used other times as well
- I also feed black worms, blood worms, b. Shrimp a couple of times
- I have also been leaving seaweed for them to graze as needed
- lights run from 8AM to 3 PM and 5 PM to 9 PM.

I have been doing this for a little over a month and it has been working well for me so far.

All this is a combination of advises from various threads here and some personal experiences.

[Shan_Evolved]

Cool man. That's a super varied diet!

I stopped using my lights to help destress my discus a couple of days ago.

Unfortunately I had a silver pigeon that was perfectly healthy just turn up dead this morning. All I did differently was redoes metro 12 hours after initial dose and 90% WC. More details in other thread.

I'm honestly stumped and can't figure out why they're dying. My other cobalt with the spot is looking horrible and the spot had evolved into a white smudge.

[fljones3]

If it were me, I would stop feeding BH (for now) and cut down feeding times. I would feed sparingly and reduce WC amount to 50-70%. I think there is a bioload issue along with a water quality stabilization. I could not tell if you added sponge filters only or just canister and pre-filter. You indicated that you squeeze the prefilter daily. What about your sponge filters? You need to stabilize the water and allow the good bacteria to establish itself. Monitor daily to check NOx levels.

For the record, there are more knowledgeable people here on the forum. The above is just my opinion. Keep the metro treatment on the whole tank. My fish have usually started responding within 2-3 days of treatment.

[Shan_Evolved]

I will cut down water changes to 60%. I have stopped feeding BH days ago. I also replaced the cannister filter with the 2nd sponge last week. I try and squeeze sponge filters when they look overwhelmingly dirty. For the time being I am only going to feed Al's FDBW once a day after their 60% WC. During this WC I will treat with metro 400mg/10gal and dose 5ml prime for the whole tank.

I will repeat metro dosage and prime dosage 8 hrs later

[icuRN]

how the fish doin bro? get things sorted out?

[Shan_Evolved]

Unfortunately I ended up losing 11 of the 15 over a month and a half. For more information please check out my thread in disease and medication secion

[icuRN]

Sorry to hear that brother. I was leaving Hans the day u got them. I remember you from the photo u posted with Hans. I’ll check out ur medication thread.

[Shan_Evolved]

It's been a long time setting up and cycling my tank, but alas I have finally started a new


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RrEAIVtt6aA&feature=share&fbclid=IwAR0OvKXEfkZ7QIbcdHdS_IJEdLdzed5vud2yp5ow0 lfg3IMQvRPAbL3bpwQ


I am so pleased but extremely nervous.

I have stable PH of 7.4-6

KH of 4

NH3 NO2 all going to 0 in less than 24 hours.

I will also be doing 50% water changes every 2 days instead of larger ones daily.

Nervous but im being very careful.

As you can also see I have nothing but 3 fully cycled sponge filters in the tank.

:bandana:

[Second Hand Pat]

Hi Shan, they look good and crossing fingers all will be well.
Pat

[fljones3]

Hurrah! Rooting for you Shan!

[Iminit]

Wow just read through your thread. You’ve been down I tough road. Good luck with these new guys. Did you buy from Hans again? Do you have a qt tank? And do you still have the survivors of the first group?

[peewee1]

The encouragement is, "Don't give up. Don't ever give up." I have instilled this in my children. More often than not after a few failures they eventually are successful in that endeavor. Same for you, Shan. You will be rewarded for your many efforts and remember that experience is the greatest teacher.

[Shan_Evolved]

Thank you all for the love and kindness and of course the support. As nervous as I am, I can't wait to go home and see my new little guys. My lady fed them some beef heart mix while im at work and she said they all were eating vigorously. So a good sign!

I will be following Al's quarantine procedure - specifically dosing levamisole in the near future. I also have a microscope on hand in case I run into some funky stuff again. But I'm excited!

@Tom Yes, these are from Hans. This is my only tank and my only fish so technically is a QT tank. I have a spare 10 gallon that if needed can move a sponge filter and a fish to

[coralbandit]

Good luck this go around man !
Glad to see you were not turned off completely .

[jeep]

I just saw your message. Good luck Shan!!

[Shan_Evolved]

First week of having them has been very nerve racking but so joy filled as well. I'm so elated to finally come home to some baby little discusus.

Things I've done -

Took Hans beef heart mix and while it was lightly thawed enough to mold, I molded a bunch of pieces into golf ball size shapes, flash froze them, and put them into ziploc bags. This way I can just pull out 1 ball and feed them pieces for the next day or two.

Did a 50% PWC every other day. Things I observed is the discus get a little spooked during the water change, they huddle up together and hide in a corner. After the water change, they seem to be alright.

My daily siphoning doesn't seem to bother them at all. They move away but return to normal right after.

I haven't noticed any unusual poop, so that's a plus. Red brown normal looking poop from beef heart.

All of the fish are eating so that's really refreshing to finally see.

I just finished their first 24hr levamisole treatment. They ate during the treatment and are still eating now, so that's also good.

I have had the light off for the past week, and I think I'll start to turn it on today for 4 hours mid-day.


So far so good! Trying to do my best not to stress them out much.

[LizStreithorst]

All of us are pulling for you, Shan. If anyone deserves success it is you.

[Shan_Evolved]

Thanks mama bear :heart1:

[Iminit]

Shan I to recently bought discus from Hans. 8 2” at the end of June. My discus are growing fine and eating well. But for me I changed water every day at 50%. After a month I started noticing a slime coat forming on the glass and driftwood. If I didn’t clean this daily it became noticeable. Also when this slime coat started some of my fish stopped eating. So I raised the temp and cleaned the walls daily. Removed the wood once a week and cleaned it. All but one started eating again. My belief is the slime is hormones coming from the growing fish. My grow out tank was only a 45 this time. The last time I used a 125. 1 month in the 45 for qt than they went into the 125 a planted tank. I think the bigger tank kept the slime from building up. So with the 45 I removed the 1 non eater and but it in a 15g by itself. It started eating the first day and is fine now just smaller than the rest. That’s because I waited to long to move it. But now after 2 months I’ve moved it into the 75 and now all are in the 75. Not seeing the slime in the 75 and all but the little guy have doubled in size. I’m now changing 50% every other day. My thought is at the 2”-4” size they must get daily water changes.

[Shan_Evolved]

Thanks for the reply Tom.

I used to do daily large water changes but due to my unique situation with the water here being a mystery, I now stick to 50% every other day.

I wipe down my whole tank, front, back, bottom, and rinse 1 of the 3 sponge filters with tank water weekly; at least this is my plan.

I plan to move them up to a 125 or at least a 75 depending on the room I have and how much weight I can put on the second floor in the future once they hit 4.5".

I also previously used wood but this time around there is nothing in the tank but sponge filters and a heater.

Good to know your fish are doing well!

[coralbandit]

Glad you had a good first week !

[fljones3]

Great news!!!

[danotaylor]

Doing well Shan! Good to see you back in the ole proverbial horse...Giddyup mate :thumbsup:

[two utes]

Glad to see you back into Shan. I can understand you being nervous, but you know what you need to do. Looking forward to seeing this group grow to their full potential. Wishing you better luck this time round.

Cheers

[Shan_Evolved]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dd0E0IAWS98

[abijitr]

Great to see you back in the hobby Shan! Good luck, I am sure everything will go well.

[danotaylor]

Shan they were so happy to see you! That's an excellent sign of good health mate. They anticipated being feed when you walked through the door and hammered the food when it went in. Good times!!

[peewee1]

A rejoice-full video. Those fish are like starved pups at chow time.

[Iminit]

Discus look great! What types did you get?

[BrendanJ23]

Love the clean set up!

[Shan_Evolved]

Thanks Dano! I anticipate feeding them as much as they love being fed! And I've never been so happy to see dark poop in my life lol

@Tom I got

-Flachen
-German Wonder
-White Leopard
-PB Red
-PB Snake Skin
-Red Leopard
-Blue Diamond
-PB Silver
-Snake skin Red
-Marlboro
-Dark Angel

I didn't ask for any specific strain as I love them all. Just hoping to get them to grow well.

@Brendan Appreciate the compliment! So easy to scoop up poop and wipe glass down with nothing else in there

[wireless0426]

Hey Shan, I also got mine from Hans 2 weeks ago and they're great! Please keep posting on and share your experience!
Min

[Shan_Evolved]

Appreciate it my dudes and girls.

So this weekend gave me a friggin heart attack. But fortunately everything is okay.

I dosed their second levamisole treatment per Al's quarantine procedure. Put towels over the tank to minimize light and left them alone for 24 hrs with some light feeding. Fast forward 24 hrs the next day, I woke up and proceeded to feed them their food.

This is where I got kind of scared - they acted super skittish and didn't run to me like they usually do. Then I dropped the beefheart in, and to my surprise they barely showed interest.

Full on anxiety check LOL. I talked to Brian and proceeded to finish their treatment 4 hours later with a 50% water change. I fed them after the water change and they barely showed eating behaviors. Still stressing, I did what any sane dude would do - I went to the gym lol. By the time I came back thankfully I saw most of the food was eaten. But compared to how fast they would finish it before, not only did they eat slower but they also had leftovers. Highly unusually.

Thankfully I didn't overreact and just held fast and did the hardest thing - wait. The fish seemed to spook easily for almost the whole day with my just walking by. But I kept optimistic. They ignored foods throughout the day unfortunately.

8 hours later, I walked by the tank once again but this time they all seemed eager and hungry. I quickly ran down to grab some beefheart and dunked it in the tank.

om nom nom they devoured it!

All in all, it seems the levamisole had an affect on their appetite for a day but thankfully they seem hungry all over again. I'll check again today after I get home and hopefully they will still be eating.

I was advised that they can act strange a couple of days after the treatment but healthy water and a clean tank is the proper treatment. Oh and 1000000mg dosage of patience.

[jeep]

This is a good hurdle so far! You have good reason to be nervous and full of anxiety so feel free to shout out any time!!

[Shan_Evolved]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTGWO2MYbSQ&t=1s

[fljones3]

Great looking Shan. How big are they? They look close to mine in size (averaging 2.75 inches). My F1’s will be 16 weeks on Sunday.

[Shan_Evolved]

So hard to judge but I would say 2.5-2.75in.

Lets hope our babies grow big and healthy

[fljones3]

:thumbsup:


So hard to judge but I would say 2.5-2.75in.

Lets hope our babies grow big and healthy

[danotaylor]

They look like they are rebounding well after the worming treatment mate. Worming medication upsets the GI tract and puts fish of their food. Glad it all worked out mate. Happy dayz :thumbsup:

[Shan_Evolved]

Woo hoo thanks Danny

[Second Hand Pat]

They look great Shan :D
Pat

[Shan_Evolved]

3 week update. This week marks the same number of weeks I had the first batch before they got sick. Big milestone for me personally. =D

Things i did different this time vs last time

This time have continuous stable water parameters vs last time ph fluctuation

This time only sponge filters vs last time cannister filter that lead to lots of gunk buildup

This time baking soda in aging barrel before water changes vs last time bag of crushed coral for added dKH

This time only 50% PWC every 2 days vs 90% PWC daily

I LOVE my little guys. :D :D :D


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BmCpHrU9XRo&feature=youtu.be

[Johnny95132]

Yeah, I found that small w/c's were better for my fish than big one's. They seemed to be shocked by the big w/c's, whereas they would adjust quicker after the smaller w/c's.

[fljones3]

I cannot tell you Shan, how happy I am for you!

[Iminit]

Shan they look great. Starting to show their colors.

[danotaylor]

Doing well mate. Keep at it. Happy for you :thumbsup:

[jeep]

Very nice Shan!! We're all pulling for you here!!!

[Shan_Evolved]

I love them so much!

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[fljones3]

Coming along very nicely Shan!
I am pumped for you.

[Iminit]

Discus look great and are growing nicely.

[danotaylor]

They look fantastic mate!! Keep at er :thumbsup:

[Second Hand Pat]

Hi Shan, they do look great :) and keep up the good work. :D:D
Pat

[Shan_Evolved]

Thanks my dudes. I may have to look into a bigger tank sooner than expected

[jeep]

Their belly's look good ;)

[Shan_Evolved]

Their belly's look good ;)


ahahaha. Yea I got a worried seeing a big belly but they just eat a lot. Witholding food for a day definitely helped. I might do it again if I see overfilled bellies.

[abijitr]

Great going Shan! Love the fishes and how happy they are...

[Makko]

I am following a similar water change as you. I do 45% daily so far. For me I wanted to age the water and the barrel that fit in my closet was 50g so yea 45% max. I was kinda scared of doing bigger changes anyway.

just got 9 discus from Hans, I’m jealous you got to go see him in person. Anyway I’m day 3 in my adventure. I already love the little guys. They like FDBW the best so far.

[Iminit]

Hey Makko! Good luck with your Hans Discus! I too keep Hans. I bought 8 2.5” in June and did 50% daily for 2 months while keeping them in a 45. I’ve since moved them into a 75 and the are from 5-3.5” now. I’m now water changing every other day. Set up a qt tank or have one ready. As of now 3 of mine have visited the qt. All doing much better now. Seems to me that some will just stop eating. If moved to qt with salt added an temp raised they quickly rebound. Good luck and how big is your tank?

[Makko]

I have a journal thread going also. My tank is a 110g + sump. I did saltwater for a long time, I converted to fresh
I have a QT tank 20g long with a HOB and heater. Im hoping I dont need it :-)

[Shan_Evolved]

Very nice Mark. Make sure you try to record a 30 second video every week! It'll make for a great grow up montage.

[Shan_Evolved]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEDB79xmSwE

[Second Hand Pat]

They look great Shan, and hungry lol
Pat

[Iminit]

Looking good!!

[fljones3]

Thankful that they have settled in, growing. Happy fish, happy owner! :)

Shan, after all this time, problems encountered previously, and all the advice, what do you think the issue(s) were with your previous attempt? You probably have answered it scattered throughout your comments. Perhaps, a summary here.

[Shan_Evolved]

Thank you everyone and great question Frank.

Regarding my failure on my first batch, I would conclude in summary there were various minor issues but the fault would have to remain on the low KH leading into PH fluctuation.

Minor Issues

-Cannister filter gunk build up, too much flow pulling pieces of beefheart and poop getting it stuck on prefilter
-Not using levamisole dewormer via Al's QT procedure
-Crushed coral as a PH buffer
-90% water change daily (way too much)

Major Issue

Unstable PH due to extremely low and variable tap water KH (0-1dKH). In combination with low KH in my tap water and attempting to stablize PH after getting the fish rather than before, I am certain there were violent swings in PH causing a lot of stress and lowered immune response in my batch due to the huge water changes and inconsistent KH.

Makes sense as all the minor things combined lead to really bad KH stablity which swung my PH. I could have also had a minicycle and the creation of excess nitrate bacteria lead to prolonged nitrites in my water which could have lead to brown blood disease allowing all these different issues and symptoms to surface.

I say this because I discovered recently when cycling that it took a long time to cycle from high nitrites to low nitrates even though my ammonia cycled into nitrites fast. (2 weeks for ammonia but close to 2 months for nitrites to hit 0.)

[fljones3]

Thanks for taking the time to summarize your thoughts, Shan. I agree that your thoughts are probably on target.

[Shan_Evolved]

Didn't want to alarm anybody, but now that I am all better I wish to share -

3 weeks ago my co-worker got diagnosed with COVID-19 and shortly after, myself and 3 others whom worked closely to him also tested positive. I have been quarantined the past 15 days in my room with my discuses!

As far as symptoms, even though I'm a healthy 20's guy who works out 6 days a week, I still got hit hard. I had a fever, congestion, cough, and severe sore throat. My entire left ear channel all the way down to my throat was heavily inflamed and painful. My wife had be locked in my dungeon with my discus for 11 days straight while I recovered. My co-workers are all recovering as well.

Luckily she did not test positive and I slowly overcame it and am now as healthy as a horse.

My discus are all doing well too. They kept me good company

[danotaylor]

Glad you've recovered Shan! That's good news right there mate :)

[Iminit]

Good to here! Glad your better!!

[Johnny95132]

Wow, that must have been an ordeal to overcome the virus. Glad to hear that you've recovered from it. TBH, I've yet to have a cold that's as painful as the symptoms you described. Though spending 2 weeks with the discus does sounds nice though.

[tacks]

get well soon Ed

[Shan_Evolved]

Ah, panic attack, but hopefully its gonna be okay.

My sponge filters got swarmed with beefheart and muck, so my super smart self decided to squeeze all 3 (with tank water) to clean them. I'm pretty sure I caused a mini cycle.

I had a reading of 1ppm ammonia, 4ppm NO2, and 20ppm NO3. I was still doing my 50%wc every 48 hours. During this discovery I immediately did a 50%pwc and that lowered the nitrites to 2ppm, but it still seemed pretty dark purple.

I waited 3 hours and did another 50%wc and got the NO2 down to 0.5ppm. I dosed triple PRIME. This was yesterday.

I checked NO2 this morning and it had climbed its way up to 1ppm. My NO3 is around 5ppm after 2x50%wc.

Hopefully the prime is strong enough to keep the nitrites from being toxic while my bb colonies catch up. The discus are still eating and behaving well. Fingers crossed.

[LizStreithorst]

Shoot, I was so looking forward to reading your post after not having seen you say anything for a while. It sounds like you are doing what you can. I wonder if it would help to add some of that stuff in a bottle that cycles your tank immediately? Fingers are crossed for you, Shan.

[Shan_Evolved]

Im talking with cary and he thinks they will be okay.

I haven't posted an update cause of life but I would like to add they have GROWN. I have a bunch that are 4.5" now. Some small ones but I love them all the same. They all still have strong appetites and even let me pet them.

Hopefully the little bump im experiencing right now shouldn't last too long. I'm watching water parameters carefully.

Also I was actually going to get 2 more 4" fish to add to the family. I was planning on cycling a 125 showtank in a few months to transfer them into next year. We'll see what happens one day at a time

[AquaticNerd]

Shan,

I've been following your journey since the beginning, so it's good to see that things are finally working out for you. Your group looks great, and sound like they're really packing on the size! :)

[fljones3]

I just thought today, what happened with Shan's discus. :)

[Shan_Evolved]

Ill post a video once the nitrites are under control. @liz good idea, im gonna chuck a bottle of tetra safestart + when I get home, should help.

@jake ive seen your tank man, looks godly beautiful. I hope to have a showtank near that level of finesse

@frank hows your batch doing bro? I haven't surfed around too much in a minute Ill check

[fljones3]

Doing well. I think the largest is close to 4 inches.


@frank hows your batch doing bro? I haven't surfed around too much in a minute Ill check

[Willie]

Just keep changing water, Shan. Don't bother throwing mystery colored water into the tank. Save that money for your next set of discus.

[Shan_Evolved]

Thanks @Willie. Yeah, just a bit annoying cause my NO2 keeps creeping up to 2ppm even after large water changes. Internet not being helpful in determining how much NO2 is safe with lots of PRIME

[Willie]

Unfortunately, neither Prime nor the other chemicals are going to have any effect on NO2 at all. You just need to keep changing water to keep the levels down. It'll slow up the cycle, but save the fish.

[coralbandit]

Sorry your tank is acting up Shan .
Salt works for nitrite poisoning also / along with water changes ..
This is a salt /nitrite calculator ;
http://www.fishtanksandponds.co.uk/calculators/salt-treat-nitrite.html
This from wiki nitrite poisoning ; You can also add 6ppm of chloride (ie postassium chloride) for every 1ppm of nitrites in your water. This will stop nitrite poisoning from happening further, but will not reverse any previous damage
Nitrite poisoning is referred to as brown blood disease ..
From this link ; http://www.theaquariumwiki.com/wiki/Nitrite_Poisoning
I agree with Willie on the prime . Seachem claims it but have never produced any studies .
I am not a Seachem hater [ I use safe] but I would trust nature [ salt and water] more then business..

[Shan_Evolved]

Luckily I caught it all very early and did plentiful water changes. My most recent water change brought it down to 0-0.25 so i'll keep a look out and see if it spikes up again and continue my daily 50% wc. Fish seem as active and hungry as ever so thats a good sign. I plan on taking one of the sponges out this weekend to put into my QT tank im setting up for my new arrivals next week.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UEYYmD3zPe4&feature=youtu.be

[seanyuki]

Yr current tank what size is it and how many new discus are you getting?

[LizStreithorst]

They don't look the least bit worse for the wear. You earned this good outcome.

[Iminit]

Yes your discus look fine. But what are you filtering with? Is it just the 3 sponges? Is there a hob or canister too?

[Shan_Evolved]

@sean, It's a 55 barebottom with 11 in it. Getting 3 more. Moving them into a 125 once they reach 5"

@liz, Thanks mama bear. I hope so, time will tell

@Tom, Only 3 sponges

[Iminit]

Shan I think that may be your problem. I think you should add an hob to the tank. First it will give you more media to eat the nitrites. Than it will be building up media so you can put it into your 125. As your fish are getting bigger your sponges are not able to keep up. There taking care of the ammonia but struggling on the next step. Add a marineland 350. About $30 at petsmart. Check the internet price the store will match. Add sponges for the cartridges and it will run for years. Next for more money the tidal 110 is a good working filter with a huge media basket.

[LizStreithorst]

Those are big sponges. They should do the job by themselves.

[Shan_Evolved]

It wouldn't hurt to have redundancy. I will def get a HOB. Couldn't hurt.

I do have big sponges but my nitrites went from 0 at the time of a water change to about 1-2ppm 12 hours later this morning.

I will continue to do 50% water changes and dose 5x prime. Also another thing that bugs me is that I only squeezed and rinsed the sponges with tank water. I thought that would be okay from my understanding but I guess not.

Also really bugs me that my water has chloramines in it and gives me a constant 0.5ppm influx of ammonia at water changes.

[LizStreithorst]

My sponges would have been fine with it. They're a million years old and don't get squeezed that often. I never ever ever see the water be clear during a squeezing. You're much better at keeping a pristine tank plus you have weird water. I can do a 100% WC at the drop of a hat. You cannot. I think that's the difference. But now you know to squeeze only one sponge at a time. This won't happen to you again.

[AquaticNerd]

Tom's suggestion is a good one. If I recall properly, the aquarium you have is a 55 gallon. In your videos, I think I counted 12(?) discus. I would tend to lean towards the sponge filters just not having enough surface area for BB to handle the bio-load. At the minimum, I would go with Tom's suggestion and throw a Marineland 350 on there. If you can scrape enough together for the SeaChem Tidal 110, I would highly suggest one of those. The media basket is extremely large and allows you to throw as much bio-media in there as you can fit. I'm also a fan of the design. The pump for it is inside the tank, so you never have to worry about it not starting back up, and the slots near the water surface provides a skimming aspect. No more film on the surface for me and helps promote gas exchange. The water flow control is pretty precise for a HOB, so if you don't want to run the 110 at full power, you get some good control over it.

Don't get me wrong, sponges are a great way to filter tanks for discus - but the fact that you have many discus and are feeding heavily to get them to grow, coupled with the fact that you're only doing WC every 2 days may just not be enough as they get larger and put a bigger strain on bio-load.

[Shan_Evolved]

Im leaning to get a tidal 110 definitely. But amazon not selling them right now? Gonna have to purchase elsewhere. Appreciate it, will order when I can. For the time being im hoping daily 50% wc is enough to keep my fish happy

[AquaticNerd]

Amazon should have them available: https://www.amazon.com/Seachem-Tidal-Filter-Sicce-Gallon/dp/B01MAYXZUK

[Shan_Evolved]

Oh thanks jake. Doesn't seem like it holds a lot of media. Guess we'll wait and see when it gets here in 2 days

[AquaticNerd]

It's definitely a lot larger in person. If you take a look at their website, the media chamber dimensions are 11" x 3.5" x 7 7/8" (L x W x H) and states about 0.85 gallons of media capacity. I think you'll find it quite sufficient :)

Do share your thoughts on the filter once you get it in! There's a lot of niceties about it that I enjoy. If I recall, it comes with a heater holder that attaches to the side next to the intake as well.

[seanyuki]

The Seachem Tital 110 holds a lot of media and Imo better than the Aquaclear 110 for efficiency.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wewBw-Iy_sc&t=799s

[Acerrato]

Shan, the Tidal 110 is huge - I was running 2 of them on my 125 gallon along with 3 sponge filters. I was able to fit triple sponges in the basket as well as a large bag of bio media. I switched over to canisters several months ago however. I'll always recommend the Tidal lines to anyone looking for an HOB though - great experience with them.


Oh thanks jake. Doesn't seem like it holds a lot of media. Guess we'll wait and see when it gets here in 2 days

[jeep]

I find it hard to believe that squeezing your sponges out damaged the bacteria that much. I squeeze the hell out of mine, and like Liz said, I never get them totally clear, but I've never had an issue on losing my cycle. But then again, I don't test my water that frequently either. Try adding the lift tubes onto the filters as well as air stones all the way at the bottom of the housing. This will increase draw and efficiency and add more air to supply the bacteria. If you don't have them, Jehmco sells them cheap...

With everything you've been through, I don't blame you for being a bit overly protective, but I think you'll come through this just fine.

[seanyuki]

I also modify the sponge filters by adding an air stone.....less noisy too.


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[Shan_Evolved]

I'll message you about the lift tube idea. But I think with the addition of the HOB and a ton of media I should be okay.

At least in the future. I'm actually worried my fish are gonna suffer. My tap water has 0.5-1ppm ammonia in the form of chloramine, and after every 50% daily water change, a couple of hours later I have noticeable ammonia, nitrite at 1-2ppm and nitrate at 5-10ppm. My Ph is about 7.0 - 7.2.

Also about squeezing my sponges, l squeezed in a bucket in tank water, pulled it out, squeezed again, and put it back in and did this three or four times until water was mostly clear.

The fish seem hungry but I've stopped heavy feedings (skipped food entirely today). Even though my fish seem normal, I'll occasionally see one just chilling, slightly looking down and seeming lethargic. But 5 mins later he's swimming around normally.

Maybe I've overthinking it but doing my best.

Does anyone have experience with minicycles? Specifically when you have all 3 parts of the nitrogen cycle showing noticeable ppm?

This is my test kit 24h after a water change...

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[fljones3]

In your situation, I would alternate squeezing the sponges. One a week. That will minimize bio disruption.
I realize that you had to do all 3 with the beef heart decay.

[Shan_Evolved]

Well it's been a bit over a week and I've been doing daily 50-70% water changes if not 2 in the same day (if I have time). Also 5x dosing on prime to be safe. Adding in stability with each water change for the heck of it.

Ammonia and nitrites still seem to be rising fast within 12-24 hours. Still getting a 0.25-1ppm ammonia reading and 1-2ppm nitrite reading 12hrs after a water change. Fortunately the fish still seem to be doing well. They are hungry and eating every time with healthy poop. All swimming around normally and haven't noticed anything too crazy. I hope my cycle catches up soon.

I added in the Tidal 100 and filled it with ceramic rings and put a prefilter sponge on the intake. Hopefully it builds a nice colony.

Another cool thing - since I've been doing so many water changes (this time my water being very stable thanks for baking soda), the fish seem to love each water change quite a bit. Actually during the water changes I'll stick my hand in there and they'll swim between my thumb and fingers. They let me pet their fins and sides. All my discus have a personality too. I love my little guys.

My QT tank finished cycling in like a week, so that's ready for the 3 discus coming on Tuesday. Pretty excited but at the same time always anxious about my main batch.

I know I know, patience patience patience. Hopefully my bacteria colonies build up in a few weeks or less.

[Iminit]

Wow 3 more!! Where from? That’s a lot of discus for a 55. May want to get a second 110 :). Have you ever spoke to any local pet stores (not petsmart or that type) about there water quality and what they do? Know a guy who also has chloramine in his water. He now uses a filter similar to mine to his tap water and it’s working for him. I use one under counter filter he is using 3.

[Shan_Evolved]

I've looked at all sorts of ideas and spoken to many people - but without chemistry involved filtering (RO or deionization), there simply isn't an easy way to remove the actual ammonium form the water. The local people here just have established tanks.

I'm very curious to what your friend does in order to get rid of the ammonia

[seanyuki]

Try Seachem Zeolite or Aquaclear Ammonia Remover.

HTH

[Shan_Evolved]

I appreciate the thought and help - but I know the stability of my tank in the long run depends on a good bacterial colony. So far my fish are still doing great tanks to the water changes, so I think ill keep at it for the time being.

[Shan_Evolved]

Ammonia is disappearing rapidly but is causing nitrites to spike FAST. So i'm doing 2x water changes a day to keep my main tank under control. Fish are doing great still - hungry as ever.


In other news, my 3 "4 inch" fish arrived from hans, and being honest I'm a bit displeased with their size and body shape. I asked hans very politely multiple times to please try and get me good stock as I'm spending quite a bit of money on these fish - but the end result isn't quite what I asked for. But they are still beautiful none the less. What surprised me is that my batch which I considered 4" looks significantly bigger than the 3 that arrived. I think my batch maybe closer to 4.5" now if I were to truly remeasure. At least the bigger ones.

Attached as some photos -

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I was really excited to receive a nice red scriblet, but from the pictures you can tell she looks a bit off. Not the worst size, but when compared to my current batch, they look to be a full inch smaller in length and 1-2" smaller in diameter. Not as round bodied, but at least they're not stunted. Perhaps they are all female, but none the less the transaction has been completed and I will do my best to raise them to their full potential. Just makes me wish I had ordered them at 2.5" and raised them with my current batch.

Oh and another issue that is that their appetite is almost non-existent. They won't eat the beefheart, worms, granules. Or barely any of it. I acclimated them properly and let them rest for 24h before trying food but they just aren't eating as viciously as the previous batches. Hopefully they turn around and start eating more. Water quality in the QT tank is pristine and they are swimming around the whole day so they seem alright.

just a bit disappointed in body shape. Hope they grow a lot more. Just seem closer to 3" than 4" in my opinion but honestly doesn't matter if they grow bigger. Just my 50c

[Acerrato]

Hi Shan - love your new fish! In my opinion, they look exactly as they should for Hans' fish.. All of my turq's from Hans look exactly like these guys. When I ordered my first batch of 15 4" fish from Hans, they were all different sizes between 3.5"-4.5" .. These definitely look to be the same sizes of the 4" fish I received from him 10 months ago - they all varied within an inch of each other. My most recent orders from Hans' were a 5" cobalt blue and a 5" solid flachen. I can't remember which one it was, but one of them didn't eat for nearly a week and a half after I received them. I wouldn't stress too much about that just yet. As for their shape - these are the shape of Hans' fish especially at that size.. It is the same shape that all of my fish from Hans had when I received them and some of them still have. I love your new babies- they're gorgeous!

[Willie]

Shan;

I've experienced the same - that the fish I get seem smaller than what I ordered. To be fair to Hans, I've measured his fish and every discus he ever sent were the minimum size specified. (That's not always been true from other suppliers.) If the fish were actually smaller and you sent him a picture, I expect Hans would make good on it.

I look at these discus and don't see any body shape problems. The more traditional discus strains are round when the fins are fully expanded. The fish in the picture look like they're still adjusting. The newer Asian strains have a HB (high back) gene which makes the shape round even without the finnage. When the fins are fully expanded, those discus are taller than they're long. My expectation is that your regular, large water change regime can turn these guys into monsters in a year.

I've also noticed that Hans' discus take a long time to break their fast in my tanks. Back when he used to sell 7" slabs, I ordered one for a friend. That fish started eating 3 weeks after arrival. I was worried sick at the time, but my friend was so happy with it....

Willie

[Shan_Evolved]

Thanks for the encouragement guys. I do love them and hope they turn around and eat ferociously soon. I have already contacted Hans and feel guilty in doing so- hes probably neck deep in work and issues and the last thing I want is to cause him more distress.

I will keep doing what I've always been and water change, feed, and more water change!

[seanyuki]

Have you talked to Hans about your displeasure with the discus.....

[Discus-Hans]

Yes he did contact me, and said get back to me later, I know you are busy.

Copy and past: " Anyways I'm in no rush to get anything resolved or expect anything (ex refund). I just wanted to share my concerns with you. I wish you a very happy Christmas and new year bro. We can talk more after the holidays if you're busy no rush"


And yes I'm busy trying to get Discus that should have been delivered yesterday to get to my customers. Hate it when before I can even reply to him, they are complaining on the forum already. Just pisses me off.

[Shan_Evolved]

Sharing my experience, positive or negative is part of this thread and in no way did I mean offense or complaint towards anything. Displeasure maybe, but I have stated in my own post I love these discus the same and am only concerned they are eating. Mixture of lack of experience on my own end as well as the rough year I've already had with my discus the first time maybe to blame. For that I am sorry for any offense I may have caused. Only trying to be truthful and honest about everything and mean well.

After all, isn't this what a forum journey thread is for? For a returning customer who has spent hundreds of dollars on Hans, I don't appreciate being treated subpar especially with a deal that was made multiple weeks prior to delivery. If I posted something negative about the fish and have the proof of it, it may be unfortunate but why should I withhold that part of the process?

I don't appreciate the tone Hans has given me despite me being as polite and forward as I can. I specifically asked multiple times for pictures and to please pick the best looking discus he could, and I have been ignored for days or forgotten about for awhile. This wasn't a last minute deal. I have been talking to him for weeks prior. But it's okay, I understood he was busy and hoped he would pay attention when he could.

What happened in the end? Just pick discus at random the day of and send them to me because I'm just one customer in a sea of thousands. I did not mean my post as a complaint, and to be treated with this kind of respect really makes me hurt. Not only does my money feel worthless, but my attempted relationship with hans gets kicked in the gut too.

Trying my best here to have a good relationship - - but if sharing my experience good or bad makes me directly piss of hans - -I really don't know what to do.

[Iminit]

Wow a little shocked here! Yeah it’s been a tough year but no reason to be pissed! Yes Shan this is a place to talk about your fish. You weren’t complaining and saying what you thought. You were very quickly told by other members that your fish look good and should be fine, you seemed very happy to here that. I think the forum did its job. Sorry Hans your answer was abrupt and not thought out. I too have bought your fish and do recommend them to any who ask. But as stated your fish take time to grow into there shape. It’s easy to get upset.
As to your new discus yes I think they’ll be fine. With your water change routine they should grow nicely. Good luck with them :).

[LizStreithorst]

Shawn, when I read what you thought of them I was expecting bad fish. Darlin' these are very nice fish! Willie nailed it when he said that they looked like they hadn't totally adjusted to their new home yet. It's looks to me that you got these shortly after Hans separated the wheat from the chaff in his tanks or he went out of his way to choose nice ones for you.

[seanyuki]

When you buy from an online seller you are probably buying normal discus unless the seller specify it as show quality or show potential.It’s also how you take the photos of the discus.I don’t see big flaws in them.

[LizStreithorst]

Wow a little shocked here! Yeah it’s been a tough year but no reason to be pissed! Yes Shan this is a place to talk about your fish. You weren’t complaining and saying what you thought. You were very quickly told by other members that your fish look good and should be fine, you seemed very happy to here that. I think the forum did its job. Sorry Hans your answer was abrupt and not thought out. I too have bought your fish and do recommend them to any who ask. But as stated your fish take time to grow into there shape. It’s easy to get upset.
As to your new discus yes I think they’ll be fine. With your water change routine they should grow nicely. Good luck with them :).

This is an open forum. Hansie is a member and has the total right to respond to being accused of sending out poor quality fish.

[Shan_Evolved]

Thank you all for the encouragement.

I do love my new fish, dont get me wrong. I'm gonna do my best to grow them up. I'm putting everyday into cleaning and changing water and feeding, and will continue to love and nurture them to their best potential.

I meant no harm in my posts, just frustrated with comparing these new discus to my own 4" batch. I had to pull tooth and nail to convince the Mrs. that spending double the money for a 4" would be worth it, and our first impression of the fish was a bit underwhelming. They are 3.5-3.75" so they seem a bit smaller than my own batch which are 4-4.25". I think my fire red is actually 4.5" now despite the less feedings. So when I recieved 4" fish, I really thought they would be more close in size to my own, which they seemed significantly smaller

But regardless, I meant no harm and just wanted your experienced opinions - of which I got. I did not by any means mean to offend anyone, especailly hans.

If you're reading this hans - sorry mate , I truly do apologize and love the fish

[Iminit]

Yes Liz I do understand that. And as an open forum I openly put out my opinion. Is that wrong?

[seanyuki]

You mentioned u are keeping 11 discus in a 55 gallons tank and add the three new discus in quarantine tank to the main tank assuming after the 6-8 weeks quarantine period and grow them to 5 ins and put them to a bigger tank....you also said the second batch is not growing properly to their full potential......IMO how can 11 Discus grow to their full potential in such a small tank......my two cents.

[Johnny95132]

Hey Shan, I've been following your discus keeping journey from the first batch and I think you're truly trying to keep discus in the right way. Meaning that you don't cut corners and always strive to give your fish the best care possible. From every post I've read, I saw that you've never missed a single water change and have been attentive to your discus, giving them medicine and home made food to nurture them. I was shocked when your first batch succumbed to disease given the utmost care you provided. With the care you've provided, you didn't deserve that outcome. I sincerely wish the best for you in your discus keeping journey. Stay on course with your top notch care, and you'll have some stunners.

[LizStreithorst]

Yes Liz I do understand that. And as an open forum I openly put out my opinion. Is that wrong?

No, not wrong. Saying that he was pissed off when he was defending his reputation was wrong.

[Acerrato]

Shan, I think it was okay to feel disappointed that the fish didn't look exactly how you thought they would. You're used to getting smaller fish, so you expected a 4" fish to look a certain way - and I totally get that... However, in my experience, the 5" fish is where it's at.. They're the ones where you'll have a pretty good idea of what shape they'll have when they do reach full potential (6"+). If you would have received 5" fish and were disappointed with their size/shape, I'd say that this would be more concerning. The 4" fish still have SO much growing & developing to do... and if you hadn't directly purchased 4" fish in the past, I can understand why you may have been a bit surprised when you received yours - you may have thought they'd be larger or more developed because you're not used to receiving 4" fish as opposed to one that's larger and more developed. As I mentioned earlier, my last couple of purchases from Hans were 5" fish and I can say, they were well worth the $$... absolutely stunning fish in shape/size/color. Going forward, i'll only be purchasing 5"+ fish from him. The way that you were hoping you'd feel when you received these new fish, is how I felt when I got my 5" fish.. I just sat there staring at them for hours and days because they were just so gorgeous. So I can totally understand why you may have been disappointed... but I assure you, those fish you have are beautiful and will only become more beautiful as they grow.

Between COVID, the holidays, other things happening in the world, I think that everyone is more stressed out than usual. I can understand Hans' frustration too.. he's been busting his butt making sure he gets his orders out, trying to keep everyone happy and FedEx has just been a mess lately losing packages/delivering late... the late/missing packages cause unhappy customers, fish that may arrive DOA or in bad shape, etc... and I could imagine that it's extremely stressful for everyone involved.

Wishing you and the rest of the forum a very Merry Christmas (or Happy Holiday)!

[Shan_Evolved]

@sean

I don't have the luxury nor room in my small townhouse to fit a 125 and do daily 50% aged water changes. So I make due with a 55 and almost daily water changes. A lot of the batch is growing great and any mishaps that may have hurt their growth had to do with my own inexperience (squeezing sponge filters). I have a handful of discus at 6 months old that I can see showing show discus type shapes and qualities - even with my mishaps so I am hoping that my hard work is paying off. That being said, I see the group fast approaching 5" and I am currently searching for a brand new 125 to purchase. But due to COVID, it's so difficult to have one ordered no matter what LFS I go to.


@Johnny

Thanks so much for your kinds words and heart. I truly appreciate the love and having my hard work recognized at least somewhere. Life is too hard with all this stress and we need more of you bro


@Amanda

You are probably 100% correct. Your post comforts me because my inexperience lets my fear of the unknown grow. You are right in I totally expected a different fish at 4", especially comparing to my own, but the fish I received are actually great none the less. Maybe one day I can purchase some 5" fish from hans and he wont kill me lol

[Acerrato]

I've learned a wholeeeeee lot over the last 10 months.. I've been a complete pain in the butt at times to multiple people, including Hans.... lol. So, I had originally purchased 15 4" fish from him. A couple of months later I purchased an additional 4" fish from him... When the new fish arrived, he was smaller than the rest of my 4" fish. I thought he was smaller than 4" until I realized that my original 4" fish were now 4.5"-5" fish and I just hadn't realized that they had actually grown. So I wouldn't say that it's "inexperience" on your part.. It's kind of like when you see the same person every single day.. you may not notice that they have gained or lost weight because that change happened gradually, not suddenly - so you just can't tell right away until you compare it to a photo that had been taken months ago and then you're able to see the difference... I hope that makes sense, I know it's a weird example. I think you've come a long way and have learned a lot from when you had your very first batch of fish!

And then when I purchased my 5" fish from him, they were bigger than my other fish in the tank - so they immediately looked stunning to me because they were just so much larger and more "full" looking.

[Shan_Evolved]

I can see the infatuation with the 5" is justified just by looking at your tank pics. Gorgeous. Thank you for sharing your experience with 4". I think I might be in the same boat. I'm glad hans spoke to you a lot, he seemed too busy for me too often but that's probably because I was being annoying Lol.

Your example makes perfect sense to me. I guess they do grow big and fast when you do everything right. Might need my 125 sooner than later

[Johnny95132]

I do recommend you stay with the 55 gallon vs the 125 for grow outs since it's much easier to do large water changes on a small tank vs a larger one. During a water change, you have to factor in time for the water to drain out and to refill the tank. The 125 will take twice the amount of time to drain and twice the amount to refill vs the 55 since the 125 contains 2x the volume. Therefore, the entire waterchange process will take 2x longer on the 125 vs the 55. Unless you have the time to attend to the tank during the water change, I'd stick with the 55 for intensive growouts.

[Iminit]

Lol Liz pissed was his word I just repeated it.

[seanyuki]

In your opinion 14 4 ins discus in a 55 gallons is not over crowded.



I do recommend you stay with the 55 gallon vs the 125 for grow outs since it's much easier to do large water changes on a small tank vs a larger one. During a water change, you have to factor in time for the water to drain out and to refill the tank. The 125 will take twice the amount of time to drain and twice the amount to refill vs the 55 since the 125 contains 2x the volume. Therefore, the entire waterchange process will take 2x longer on the 125 vs the 55. Unless you have the time to attend to the tank during the water change, I'd stick with the 55 for intensive growouts.

[Iminit]

Yeah I understand it’s easier for water changing but that many 4” discus you’d need to change the water twice a day to keep up. I recently had 8 in a 75 growing out and 4 others in a 45. All at the 4+ size. At every water change there was a slime build up on the glass. Now with all in a 125 I’m not getting that build up anymore. So I’d say bigger is better.
Shan check Craigslist,OfferUp and Facebook marketplace for tanks. By me there are plenty. Try for an acrylic. Tank weighs Less than a third the weight.

[Acerrato]

Oh trust me- in the beginning, I did everything wrong. I never did things perfectly (and I still don’t)! The only thing I did right in the beginning was the 50% water changes daily. Aside from that, I did everything completely backwards wrong for several months before I found my groove. I constantly panicked over everything thinking my fish were getting sick and gonna die.... they were just fine- there was absolutely nothing wrong with them. Lmao. If you go back through my tank journal, you’ll see a little bit of it. I was mostly messaging different people on Facebook for help. They couldn’t help me really because all of these “problems” I thought I was having weren’t really problems at all. Every new behavior I saw from the fish freaked me out so I’d make impulsive decisions to change substrate or filtration thinking that it would fix my “problem”... all of the panicking was from a lack of experience on my part. I was messaging Hans almost daily with the same questions over and over again. Eventually he got slower to respond to me because there just was no helping me at that point- I wasn’t taking his advice. That’s why you should give yourself some credit- you seem to be doing the right things with your fish!

Shout out to Hans, Cary, Tammy, Tom (coralbandit), Tom (Iminit), Pat, Francis for putting up with my BS a year ago.... you guys have the patience of Saints! I’m sure I’m forgetting someone...



I can see the infatuation with the 5" is justified just by looking at your tank pics. Gorgeous. Thank you for sharing your experience with 4". I think I might be in the same boat. I'm glad hans spoke to you a lot, he seemed too busy for me too often but that's probably because I was being annoying Lol.

Your example makes perfect sense to me. I guess they do grow big and fast when you do everything right. Might need my 125 sooner than later

[Discus-Hans]

I'm glad hans spoke to you a lot, he seemed too busy for me too often but that's probably because I was being annoying Lol.

I was sitting in the badroom with my phone, did a quick count do you know since December 1 you send me 35 text messages (some even in more parts, just counted those as 1) I replied 31 times. Name me one "Discus seller" that you can text on his cell phone and get a reply as fast as you get from me.

[danotaylor]

That's a bunch of msg's Shan, lol!

I'm not trying to be a smart a$$ Hans, but Dennis from DDF texts back quick, and he even initiates texts to me as well ;) Pretty sure from others testimony about Kenny that he does the same...and Chicago Discus. All you guys seem to be accessible & take really good care of your customers...

[Shan_Evolved]

I was sitting in the badroom with my phone, did a quick count do you know since December 1 you send me 35 text messages (some even in more parts, just counted those as 1) I replied 31 times. Name me one "Discus seller" that you can text on his cell phone and get a reply as fast as you get from me.

I don't wanna compare you to anyone Hans. And most of those texts literally involve setting up the sale, not helping me further regarding good stock. Just $$

You're getting to the point where I'm starting to really lose my patience. Despite being nice, kind, and very patient with you, the bottom line is that you never tried to accommodate giving me assurance or a picture of the discus before sending despite asking for it multiple times. I understand I was being picky but I made it clear to you that I was being picky - I'll own up to that. But that doesn't change that you wouldn't acknowledge that you would try and get me a better batch. Even saying that you'll try and pick the nicest shaped ones for me would have sufficed but all you've said multiple times is you're very busy and talked about shipping. You answered a few questions regarding size and age like you would any other customer, but I tried to be more than you're typical customer. I showed you I was a discus enthusiast who was working very hard to grow big healthy discus, and I stressed how important good stock was to me. Oh and I think my wallet thrown in your direction the past two years also speaks for this sentiment.

For me to ask for 4" discus and have all 3 be under 4" felt like you didn't care. Was asking for quality confirmation of the 3 discus too much? Maybe, but that's what I wanted and I've come to you spending hundreds of dollars at a time and even paid in advance for this batch. Hell, I even offered to pay a month before your batch arrived just to secure better shaped discus.

But what? You don't acknowledge my concerns until I share my experience.. And on top of that you wanna say "I'm done" and publicly share your anger towards me?

And please don't act like you messaging back 31 times is such a feat when most of my messages are longer while most of yours are generic one liners or sentences that don't even answer some of my worries or only deal with getting the business transaction completed.

"pisses me off"

[two utes]

Shan.
Im very sorry to hear about your disappointment with your last purchase, but i really do think that they have a lot of potential.
My advise to you is to concentrate on growing out this group the very best you can, and enjoy the journey.....isn't that why you're here in the first place?
If you put in as much effort with daily water changes and feeding as you do on here justifying yourself, i really do think that you will accomplish your goals.
I'm not taking sides, but do you really think you deserve better product than anyone else? I for one run a business, and try and give ALL my customers the very best service that i can offer, and with what i have available.

By the way....l like your signature, but i really don't think that you're an 'Amateur Discuskeeper.

Merry Christmas :)

[Shan_Evolved]

Thank you Joe Z. I'm sure they will grow big and to me they are already beautiful. I'm not annoyed nor that disappointed in the discus at the discus at all, just offended in Han's behavior to my post sharing an experience. This is a forum to share experiences bad or good, and my confusion/displeasure I felt when initially receiving them I feel is normal. I am inexperienced and don't know what a "4 inch" discus should look or be like. And from people's insights I have now learned that 4 inches doesn't mean they are actually 4 inches or more, but rather 3.5" or more. That's fine. At least the discus will grow well despite my inexperience regarding quality stock.

I was learning. I still am learning.

Just offended at his quick to judge pissed off attitude and accusations that engrave our relationship into the ground.

As far as deserving a better product than anyone else, no I don't believe anyone is entitled to it, but at the same time if you have a customer who returns and returns, a better line of communication and assurances regarding preferences is good business practice.


That being said, I'd like to move on and wish Hans and everyone else a merry christmas and hope you all spend lots of time with your loved ones.

Now I gotta do a water change~

[fljones3]

+1


Shan.
Im very sorry to hear about your disappointment with your last purchase, but i really do think that they have a lot of potential.
My advise to you is to concentrate on growing out this group the very best you can, and enjoy the journey.....isn't that why you're here in the first place?
If you put in as much effort with daily water changes and feeding as you do on here justifying yourself, i really do think that you will accomplish your goals.
I'm not taking sides, but do you really think you deserve better product than anyone else? I for one run a business, and try and give ALL my customers the very best service that i can offer, and with what i have available.

By the way....l like your signature, but i really don't think that you're an 'Amateur Discuskeeper.

Merry Christmas :)

[fljones3]

Merry Christmas Shan!


That being said, I'd like to move on and wish Hans and everyone else a merry christmas and hope you all spend lots of time with your loved ones.

[tacks]

Merry Christmas Shan Ed

[danotaylor]

Merry Christmas Shan!

[LizStreithorst]

Christmas is a time of kindness, generosity, and forgiveness. Please remember, Hans and his wife are basically a business of 2. The days before Christmas are very very busy and very stressful, what with all the orders going out and delays during shipping. It would be a good thing if you were to contact one another after the holidays and talk things out once everyone has had a chance to settle down and relax. Merry Christmas to you, Hansie, and all the rest of my Simply friends. Peace.

[Second Hand Pat]

Generally we like to leave transaction details in the livestock report section of the forum. Shipping and receiving fish this time of year is very stressful for the both the discus vendor and the person receiving the fish. COVID adds an unprecedented level of stress with delays in shipping.

I know Hans phone is exploding with texts in the time leading up to Christmas as well as trying to track fish stuck in the shipping loop.

Shan, I am sorry you feel the fish do not live up to your expectations.

I am suggesting here that we all take a step back and take a breath. Lets get past the holidays, allow the fish a chance to grow and see how things look a month from now. I am not taking sides, only suggesting allowing the emotions time to settle and the fish too. :D
Pat

[Shan_Evolved]

Thank you everyone.

I love them. They are finally taking nibbles at beefheart. The red scriblet is a bully - guarding her chunk of food from the turqs. They are only taking nibbles if anything but that's progress. I will be starting levamisole after today's water change.


Edit- More than Nibbles now. This is the most the've eaten! Must be today's miracles or something lol


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzPHA5FFiik&feature=youtu.be


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gtTuXsnkCLw&feature=youtu.be

[Iminit]

Merry Christmas Shan!!! New fish do look great!! Same with the old! Congrats! Also like the rule drawn on tank. Great idea!

[seanyuki]

Are you joking after four days of arriving and giving them levamisole.???? First week observe ,making sure they are eating properly and passing normal feces and plenty of water changes.......I thought you are following Al’s quarantine procedure.



Thank you everyone.

I love them. They are finally taking nibbles at beefheart. The red scriblet is a bully - guarding her chunk of food from the turqs. They are only taking nibbles if anything but that's progress. I will be starting levamisole after today's water change.


Edit- More than Nibbles now. This is the most the've eaten! Must be today's miracles or something lol


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzPHA5FFiik&feature=youtu.be


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gtTuXsnkCLw&feature=youtu.be

[Shan_Evolved]

Are you joking after four days of arriving and giving them levamisole.???? First week observe ,making sure they are eating properly and passing normal feces and plenty of water changes.......I thought you are following Al’s quarantine procedure.

Why are you so hostile man? It's Christmas..

I followed his QT procedure modified a bit with Cary's advice.

With my big batch I added levamisole at the end of the first week and they actually increased their appetite. But if there's a good reason I should wait another week to give them a levamisole bath, I'm all ears. I was under the knowledge levamisole isn't as powerful as a medication, especially in the form of a 24h bath

[seanyuki]

Now you are calling me hostile lol....yr discus you can do whatever you want.

[Second Hand Pat]

Easy guys, it's Christmas. Let's give each other some breathing room ok?
Pat

[LizStreithorst]

Peace on earth. Good will toward men.

[fljones3]

I may be off here but if my poor memory is serving well, levamisole can reduce appetite.

[LizStreithorst]

It has in my experience. But after several days they will start eating more than they had been. It's more than just a good wormer it makes the immune system stronger for some reason. It is used in cancer patients to give their immune system a boost. It just takes a few days for the immune system to gather together it's strength. I think it's like the Covid vaccine. You feel bad before it start's to work. Wish we had a doctor or veterinarian her to either confirm or tell me I'm a quack.

Merry Christmas from the peaceful Mama Bear.

[Shan_Evolved]

I may be off here but if my poor memory is serving well, levamisole can reduce appetite.

I have noticed they ignore a meal the following morning. But by the next day they are eating viciously. So I was hopeful the levamisole treatment would increase their appetite by next week. This solidifies what Liz said above me. I mean I'm still happy they are eating. I might hold on the levamisole another day or two due to being busy but we'll see

[Shan_Evolved]

Couple of interesting updates -

-Got my 125 after 3 months of searching.

Seriously. Every local fish store here cannot order a 125 due to the nationwide glass/aqueon shortage, and the used tanks I've looked at have been pretty old or banged up. Luckily I got a deal for a 2 year old aqueon from a navy bro down here that is going on deployment for a great price. Not a single scratch on the glass either. Very lucky and fortunate find. I am planning on drilling it if possible, but I need to do a proper test to make sure the back panel isn't tempered.


-Week 3 of quarantine and the new discus are looking and eating great.

They have definitely grown a bit since I got them. The red scribblet is a bully to the 2 turqs, but at least they are all still eating. Next week is their last round of levamisole then we should be good to go after a test fish integration.


I'm blown away at how big the 125 is compared to the 55. It's massive. The discus are gonna love it once I set it up and cycle in a few months

[Iminit]

Congrats on the new tank. You do know that all you have to do is move your filtration system over to the new tank and it will be cycled. You could also move some water. That’s what I do. Is the new tank 6’? For me I’m not a big fan of drilling tanks. Also it reduces the value of the tank. They do make hang on back overflows.

[jeep]

Good for you Shan! How is the cycle going?

[LizStreithorst]

I'm blown away at how big the 125 is compared to the 55. It's massive. The discus are gonna love it once I set it up and cycle in a few months

Shan, I remember when I was in my around 30 years ago, my best employee at the shop bought me a 29 set up for my birthday. As a kid I'd had 10's on and off so when I saw that 29 I thought it was HUGE!!!. Just wait until you get your first 90 gallon. The dimensions of my 2 90's make them my favorite tanks. They make wonderful grow-out tanks.

[Johnny95132]

Liz, you use 90 gallons as grow out tanks? I tried doing 100% w/c's on them before, and it took forever for the water to drain and refill. But I do agree that the tallness of the 90's make them really nice display tanks. The extra 3 inches in height over the 75 makes all the difference in viewing pleasure.

[LizStreithorst]

My 90's are wide and long not tall. It's the large surface area that makes them good for grow out. I have my fish room hard plumbed from the water storage containers to each tank. I used to use an inline pump for draining but I have a good drainage to out in the woods so these days I siphon by hand.

[Shan_Evolved]

@Tom

Yeah I understand that idea - - but my anxiety over loss of cycle makes me feel better if I were to start a brand new cycle with fishless cycling method. It shouldn't take too long since I've done it enough times to get it down to a cycle. That and I also want to use ceramic rings as biomedia in my sump rather than rely on the sponges. From talking my understanding of sponges, unless you have the proper water and air flow pulling water through the actual sponges themselves, you are limiting your surface area for BB to grow. And with my shitty water and cleaning habits - I want to make sure that I have enough BB to keep everything in check. As well as drilling the tank to lower its value - I'm doing it because I have never dabbled in a sump before and I'm excited to do so, as well as increase the overall volume of water I have to 150 ish for my 14 discus + other smaller fish I plan on putting in it.


@Brian

I've reduced the water changes to every 2 days and my nitrites have fallen from rising up to 2ppm+ every 24hr to less than 1ppm every 48hr. So I know it's on it's way there. My fish are all still active and eating eagerly. I actually made my own batch of BH using BH, salmon, red spinach, vitamins, garlic, and banana. I accidently used way too much red lettuce and it turned out real green...The fish still gobble it up though so that's good. Just have random pieces of lettuce floating occasionally. :p


@Liz

That's awesome. Though I have seen 90's at my LFS but curious as to how wide your 90 is. My 125 is 6' long version

[Iminit]

I hear ya. I’m just not a fan of fishless cycling :). For me with tank running it’s way to easy to take media to start new tanks. As to sponges and other types of media. Sponges have much more surface area. What other type of media are you considering? Sumps: for me I just don’t understand them. When the water moves from chamber to chamber how does it get to the bottom of each chamber? Me I use an old fashioned wet/dry system. Easy to understand. Water first flows through a sponge in an overflow than down into a huge media chamber. Water flows through this chamber goes through another sponge and into its sump through a hole in the bottom. Forcing the water through some stacked media I placed there than pump puts it back int the tank. 130186130187130188

[Shan_Evolved]

Oh that's awesome. I also don't wanna move the media and discus at the same time because I only have 2 tanks to work with. I've always used ceramic rings as media and honestly never been steered wrong.

[Iminit]

Ceramic rings are fine. No better or worse than matrix or bio-home. Sponge does have the most surface area.

For me drilling glass is not going to happen. I’ve drilled ceramic tiles with tile bits and still got a rough finish. That needs to be done by a professional. They have the right tools.

Good luck with your new tank and looking forward to the build out. Did it come with a stand and cover/lights?

Another filtering option is the fluval fx6 canister. I use this on my other 125. Works great and pretty quite.

[Shan_Evolved]

Thanks Tom bro. I do plan on taking my tank to get it professional drilled by a LFS expert there. It did come with the aqueon stand but it only sits at around 30" and I wanted the tank to be higher around 36" so I'll be custom building this stand too

[fljones3]

Shan,

Have you given details on how you are setting up your sump? Size?
I am looking at the 120-150g range myself.

Frank

[Shan_Evolved]

I saw a post here by @coralbandit about a freshwater style sump. Gonna probably keep it simple with 3 sections. Haven't looked to much into it yet but definitely researching and learning. I have some polarized filter paper coming in tomorrow to LCD test my 125 to make sure the glass isnt tempered before I have it drilled.

Also big news!

My nitrites finally read 0 after 48 hrs.

First time in god knows how long that they've reached 0. Looks like the added biomedia and HOB filter helped! It's been weeks to recover my cycle but its finally practically there!

[seanyuki]

Just sharing plumbing parts for aquarium sump.

https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/pumps-plumbing/plumbing.html

[Shan_Evolved]

Appreciate it. I'll be ordering everything after a few more weeks of research and drilling.

I'm looking towards drilling 1.75" holes for a 1" bulkhead for a low turnover of less than 600gph.

I will be using 2 inlets and 1 return. Should be able to test if the glass is tempered today

[AquaticNerd]

Awesome news that your water quality seems to be getting back under control! I know it can be quite stressful when you've invested in some pricey fish and then all of a sudden you're panicking because of a spike in one of the two parameters.

If I could provide a little bit of advice - I would consider adding two returns. Since the tank is 6' long, that would be a lot of distance to cover to make sure you have some level of flow in the entire volume of water. Just thinking about preventing dead spots where there isn't much flow that could collect detritus as well as keeping a consistent water temperature and keeping things moving. Just my two cents. I love my sump because I'm able to hide all the media and hardware away from the main tank and keep the display nice and clean apart from the overflow and two return nozzles. I'm not sure what you're planning on as far as a sump - whether DIY or pre-built, but I really appreciate having a place for a filter sock where I can put in some good mechanical means of removing debris before it reaches anything else in my sump. This significantly slows down the amount of "gunk" that can build up in a sump and keeps media, hardware, and sponges lasting longer without maintenance. My sump has a built-in compartment, but you can get something like this filter sock holder (https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/brs-filter-sock-mount.html) if going to the DIY route.

Tom's Wet/Dry does something similar with that large roll of prefilter.

[FischAutoTechGarten]

I would recommend 2 returns as well. In the smallish (by comparison) display tanks in my FishNook.. I have a single inlet of 1/2" (fed by a 3/4" line), and dual returns of 3/4". It is so easy to overwhelm the returns that I've had to turn down my sump pump a little. I'm also in the process of adding 1 wave pump to each of the display tanks (they are 30" wide) to make sure I have some movement at the lower depths. I have one model arriving this week and I will perform a trial on one tank with that model (a 240gph mini, which I hope isn't too powerful).. if I like it I will order 5 more. I fear deadspots with the way that I have my tanks drilled on the ends (rather than the back). 6' widths hold potential for some dead spots, so that's another good reason to consider a 2nd return.

[Shan_Evolved]

Thanks for the input. I'm a little confused.

1) How do you do 2 returns with 1 return pump?

2) How are you having dead spots if the inlet and return are opposite sides of the tank? Is the dead spots vertically dead? Like the bottom of the tank gets no flow?

[Iminit]

Shan is the sump going to be the only filtration? If your going to be using the sponges from your 75 also. You can use them for dead spots. Yes a pump can be used for 2 outputs. Part may be found on the site Francis sent you. For me it’s keep it simple :). Because I like to have at least 2 filters running I use a power head with 2 sponges in chambers. The odyssea 350. This move 350g through the sponges. These I rinse when doing water changes. On eBay it’s about $20 shipped. I have this set up on the opposite side of my tank from the main output.

[LizStreithorst]

@Tom

Yeah I understand that idea - - but my anxiety over loss of cycle makes me feel better if I were to start a brand new cycle with fishless cycling method. It shouldn't take too long since I've done it enough times to get it down to a cycle. That and I also want to use ceramic rings as biomedia in my sump rather than rely on the sponges. From talking my understanding of sponges, unless you have the proper water and air flow pulling water through the actual sponges themselves, you are limiting your surface area for BB to grow. And with my shitty water and cleaning habits - I want to make sure that I have enough BB to keep everything in check. As well as drilling the tank to lower its value - I'm doing it because I have never dabbled in a sump before and I'm excited to do so, as well as increase the overall volume of water I have to 150 ish for my 14 discus + other smaller fish I plan on putting in it.


@Brian

I've reduced the water changes to every 2 days and my nitrites have fallen from rising up to 2ppm+ every 24hr to less than 1ppm every 48hr. So I know it's on it's way there. My fish are all still active and eating eagerly. I actually made my own batch of BH using BH, salmon, red spinach, vitamins, garlic, and banana. I accidently used way too much red lettuce and it turned out real green...The fish still gobble it up though so that's good. Just have random pieces of lettuce floating occasionally. :p


@Liz

That's awesome. Though I have seen 90's at my LFS but curious as to how wide your 90 is. My 125 is 6' long version

5 x 18" x19"

[Shan_Evolved]

Interesting dimensions for a 90. I never knew there were 5' tanks here in the US.

@Tom, I really don't wanna put any equipment into the 125 as that's the purpose of the sump - to hide everything. If I move the sponges, they will be in the sump to be used as media.

I still don't quite understand from my questions on the previous end of the page. Are you guys talking about the return that just splits off like a Y at the top?

[Iminit]

Both of my 125s are 5’. Shan you can add the y wherever you’d like. I’d put it in the sump and come from there with 2 hose to different parts of the tank. Remember the more connections the more chances of leaks. So in the sump keeps the water there.

For a pump I’m using a jebeo dct 4000 dc pump. This pump moves 1kh but I’ve got it set at around 800. Being dc it starts slowly and in about 30secs ramps up to full speed. Yes it’s a Chinese pump. But in reality most are made in China :). I’m use 7/8 hose so I went with a smaller pump. If you use 3/4 or 1”pvc you could use a bigger pump and run it at a lower speed. These pumps are very quiet.

[FischAutoTechGarten]

I still don't quite understand from my questions on the previous end of the page. Are you guys talking about the return that just splits off like a Y at the top?

Shan, it's a question of perspective... one vessels inlet is another's return.... It's relative. So permit me to re-word....

I have 1 line suppling water to the Display tanks (Influent to the Display Tanks that comes from the Sump)..... Each Display Tank has 2 lines to return the water back to the Sump (Effluent of the Display Tanks that goes to the Sump). You want to be able to remove more water, faster, from your Aquarium than you can put in... to prevent spills... So that's why I have more lines exiting each tank than I have coming in.

I made the previous suggestion because i misunderstood your plumbing... I read it as two water lines coming into your 125... and only 1 leaving your 125... but I think you were actually stating the opposite. my mistake.. no worries...

That said... Iminit is giving you some good suggestions! I too keep my pump submerged in the sump.... potential water leaks.... stay in the water...

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Well, I have a 2-part Sump (one with all of the media.. the other with all of the equipment)... but you still get the idea...

[AquaticNerd]

Hi Shan,

My apologies for the confusion - my assumption was that you were going to follow typical drilling that I've seen for a 125 (6') tank, in that each corner is drilled and your inlet and outlet are typically near each other (see something similar to the Marineland Corner-Flo (http://www.marineland.com/sitecore/content/UPG-US/Marineland_OLD/Products/glass-aquariums-and-tanks/corner-flo-pre-drilled-aquariums.aspx)). With an overflow at one end, and the return at the other, you are helping your case in terms of water movement, but there is still the possibility of dead spots vertically - typically closest to the bottom of the aquarium. You see this a lot in marine and reef aquariums (such as the WWC method) where powerheads at placed near the bottom of the aquarium to keep movement flowing.

With that said, the choice is completely up to you. To address your questions. Returns from sumps typically have a product called Loc-Line for the returns. You can split one output into two using a Y fitting (https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/loc-line-y-fitting.html). I personally eliminate dead spots as much as possible, but that's just my own opinion. :)

[Shan_Evolved]

Where would the deadzones be in a simple configuration like this?

Low flow. 300-500gph turnoverrate.

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[AquaticNerd]

I'm not saying dead spots are bad - I'm simply stating that my preference is to reduce or eliminate them as much as possible. I'm by no means an expert in fluid flow or fluid dynamics, I just took a couple of those courses when I was in college for engineering.

If you think in terms of fluid dynamics, water takes the path of least resistance and flow easily dissipates in large bodies of water. There's a good video demonstrating flow by Bulk Reef Supply (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1Oc1LYgVbo). Now take your diagram as an example - with 2 exits at the top of the tank, you're only drawing water in from the surface - therefore the majority of the water you are drawing in will come from the upper 3rd of your aquarium.

If you have a single return that simply discharges at the return circle, it will quickly spread out over the surface and very little will make it the full 6' distance of the aquarium, let alone the furthest point from the return - the bottom, leftmost section of the aquarium. Now say, instead of discharging it immediately, you add some Loc-Line with a nozzle tip on the end. This will greatly increase the velocity of the water coming out of the return. If you then point that nozzle directly at the front glass, it hits the front glass and dissipates from there. Some will make surface agitation while some will move downward and hit the bottom substrate (or glass). The remaining water will turn back in towards the return, and dissipate out.

A single return with a Y-fitting, which can direct water not only directly forward toward the surface and front glass, but also direct it downwards and toward the intake would greatly increase the internal water flow - reducing dead spots and still allowing for a single return hole. There's a research article that was made some time ago that looked at the effects of fluid flow on breeding fish. You can find that article here (https://www.researchgate.net/publication/227140338_Fluid_flow_characteristics_in_the_aquacu lture_tank_for_a_breeding_fish). There's some good diagrams that show how flow was affected.

[dnkn]

What kind of overflow plumbing are you planning Shan? Looking at your diagram with two "exit" holes, makes me think of my own experience. When I first drilled my 75G, I just punched one hole for an overflow, and couldn't believe how noisy a single sucking standpipe can be. If you've never used a sump, it might surprise you too.

I did a bunch of reading and talked to those with more experience, and ended up draining the tank and punching two more holes to make a bean animal overflow box. I know there are other setups that work ok using only two holes (i.e. herbie), but the bean animal really works great, it's almost silent, and it has redundancy. I'm a big fan. Especially since you're taking the tank in to have it drilled, you might want to consider three exit holes instead of two ...

[coralbandit]

Bean animal rules for the preferred extraction .
It is easy to hang an extra return over the tank compared to having to build a HOB overflow ..If you drill your returns lock line should be used IMO.
Most tanks now are tempered .I shattered a 75 2 years ago ..A $99 Aqueon and it was all tempered !
If your tank is drillable and you have not acquired all necessary equipment for the overflow look into Eshopp Eclipse skimmers .
They come with drill bit and offer several sizes .As mentioned you want more to be able to go out then can ever come in [prevent overflows ] so oversizing your skimmer is a good thing .
Like Tom I am Jeboa chinese DC pumps all the way also .. Here is the link to Jimbos sump he built .This is a sump made for fresh water not marine with all the baffles and overflows .One of the best sumps I have seen and what I use on my 75g paladarium .
https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/12-tank-journals/843513-175g-dsa-build-4.html

[Shan_Evolved]

My goal is to have enough water flow that I don't get dead spots but also not too much that my discus dislike it.

I used a polarized film and did the LCD screen test and verified my tank only has a tempered bottom; so the back is drillable.

I was planning on using a herbie style overflow with 1" bulkhead and a Y-loc line for the return.

I have already ordered the 45mm diamond bit to cut holes and will be ordering some test pieces of 1/4" Glass to practice on as well.


Now I have a question - in regarding my return Y-loc line, should this be a smaller hole than my exits? If I have a 1" bulkhead herbie, should I drill a 3/4" hole for the loc line return?

[coralbandit]

Usually the return is smaller since it is under pressure . You also don't just want too many big holes in your glass..They make the glass weaker and placement should be strongly considered ..Not to close to top edge or even when drilled clean it may crack to the edge if the space is too small ..
I would not worry so much about dead spots .It is a lot easier to vacuum waste out of 1 corner then a whole 6 foot tank ..And that IS what circulation pumps are for ..Jeboa makes digital circulators so it is not like you have to have an old school power head tidal wave ..I like the Jeboa Gyre pumps .They can keep my 180 flowing like a river or subtly stir my marine tank .
I kind of like a settling area and have something like that in one of my high flow sumps..Makes removing waste very easy..

[Shan_Evolved]

Alright. Thanks for the info. Learned a lot this weekend.

So far I will be getting a

-DC pump rated for 600gph.

-Linear length of 9"+ for DIY overflow box.

-Herbie style drain with 1" bulkhead with 6" height difference in emergency drain and normal with strainer

-3/4 bulkhead return with Y loc line with 1/8" holes drilled near the top facing down to break siphon

[Iminit]

Looking forward to pictures. I checked out the site Tom put up but don’t see where the pipes end up. Buy a dc motor that moves more water than what you need. Nice thing about these motors is you can adjust the output and run the motor at half speed. So cheaper to run and less strain on the motor. And if you want more flow just raise the output.

[Shan_Evolved]

Great Idea. Will do.

[danotaylor]

Shan how's about an update vid on your discus? It's been a hot second or 2 ;)

[Shan_Evolved]

Soon! This week is a little busy but I will definitely update video!

[Shan_Evolved]

Practiced drilling on a old cracked 10 gal. Great success!

130295130296

[Iminit]

Congrats!! Hole looks good!! Now was that just a drill bit and a drill. Or is there a rig to do it with?

[Shan_Evolved]

A rig I constructed. A hole in a piece of plywood as the pilot and then the drillbit to guide with water cooling during! Easy peasy. I'll do the 125 after I get my overflow figured out

[dnkn]

Nice jobe Shan. A 125G is less scary to drill than a 10G because the glass is so much thicker. If you can drill a 10G with probably 1/8" plate without cracking it, the 125 will be easy. It just takes longer.

[FischAutoTechGarten]

A rig I constructed. A hole in a piece of plywood as the pilot and then the drillbit to guide with water cooling during! Easy peasy. I'll do the 125 after I get my overflow figured out

Clamping a Jig is key! This year I drilled 32 holes.... only broke one.... that's when I free-handed it without my jig and clamps... over confidence.

[Shan_Evolved]

Can I get some opinions on an overflow like this?

https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/eclipse-s-overflow-box-600-gph-eshopps.html

Instead of drilling 3 holes I would only need to drill 2. And it seems slicker. Anyone experience noise level? 600gph flow is more than enough right?

Edit. Decided to aim for 800-1000gph turnover rate so I would need a bigger overflow box. The reason I liked this design is the sleekness. A bit pricey though.

[AquaticNerd]

If you're aiming for 1000gph turnover (max), you can upgrade to the largest size box they make, if you wanted - https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/eclipse-l-overflow-box-1000-gph-eshopps.html

I've found that it's really difficult to get noise under control using a herbie-style system. Granted, it is much better than what my aquarium originally came with (a pair of Maggie Mufflers (https://www.marineandreef.com/Maggie_Muffler_Overflow_Standpipe_Muffler_s/695.htm)) with standpipes. One mistake I made was that I didn't originally start with the herbie-system, but the system that came with my aquarium, where both standpipes connect together at the sump entrance. This creates a lot of noise from one standpipe and when the water enters the sump since it's mixing with air and "gurgling".

I recently tried to get the sound quieter by switching to a herbie-style drain where one drain is fully submerged and the other has a light trickle. This is where my second mistake came into play - I didn't use a gate valve, but a standard ball valve. The ball value is difficult to get tuned just right. I was able to get the sound down quite a bit. I don't hear it from the next room over anymore, which sometimes makes me worry and I have to go check to make sure it's still running lol. A gate valve would have made all of the difference in allowing me to tune it "just right".

What I like about the larger overflow is that it has 3 bulkheads for output to your sump - this allows for the bean-animal style which I have seen some folks be able to get nearly silent. And you don't have to run the overflow at the maximum flow that it can handle - it's an upper bound and not a hard limit. What I'm trying to get at here is this - if your aim is for low noise, get the larger one with 3 drains and create it bean-animal style (with gate valves!).

As far as turnover rate is concerned, I don't typically pay attention to it. With a sump, I aim somewhere in the 3-5 times per hour range. For your 125, that would be 375-625 GPH. You're going to want a pump that is rated for probably 1000 GPH due to head pressure. If you're using an AC pump (i.e. one speed), you can add a gate valve on the return to introduce "artificial" head pressure to reduce the flow if it's too much. If you're using a DC pump, it should be able to be controlled fairly easily. But like I said, personally, I care more about water movement inside the aquarium than I do "turnover" (i.e. how much goes through my sump).

[Shan_Evolved]

Thanks Jake good insight. Things I've picked up on correct me if Im wrong -

-Use a high quality gate valve in conjuction with main drain being submerged and the emergency being a trickle.

-Aim for 3-5x the turnover rate (so I would be sufficient getting a 900gph overflow box)?

-DC pump with at least 1000gph (duh!)


Some questions and concerned rising while I'm researching around -

I understand fully that the bean animal style is the best of the best, but I myself have not ever had a sump or worked with it, so just out of curiosity I would like to start with the herbie style. In the future I may upgrade if I wanted to. But I would at least like to start with herbie just to experience it.

On the subject of herbie, do the holes need to be drilled low enough on the back pane that you can get at least 6" of clearance between the 2 drains?

130298

Also, I see these shadow type overflows like the one below do not have 6" of clearance. Also from reading, people say that there's a lot of noise coming from the water draining through the bulkhead before going into the drain.

130299

[Iminit]

Ok here’s what I don’t get. For this system you still need an inside the tank flow box and an outside box. Why not just use a hang over box with a tube? Why drill holes? I thought you drill holes to avoid these boxes and you went directly into the sump.

[Shan_Evolved]

Ok here’s what I don’t get. For this system you still need an inside the tank flow box and an outside box. Why not just use a hang over box with a tube? Why drill holes? I thought you drill holes to avoid these boxes and you went directly into the sump.

Not as reliable and risk of flooding from what I've read. And with the numerous water changes It would be a pain to resiphon

[AquaticNerd]

Shan - you've nailed the main points. Looking at plumbing and overflows, BRS has a nice video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1tAnhIGpgA

To address your question - I believe if you get the eshopps 600 or 800 overflow box (typically what you see called "shadow box"), it is already set up for the herbie style. If you go looking at the 600 model you linked to and look at the image, you have the main drain (bulkhead with no PVC pipe), which would have a high quality gate valve that you can use to tune the overflow. The second "emergency drain" is the one that has PVC in it. That should provide you more than the 6" difference. If you notice in the image, the top of the PVC pipe is well above the entire bulkhead that would allow water through. Then, it's simply a matter of tuning the main drain's gate valve to restrict flow just enough to where water barely trickles down the emergency overflow. This would set the water level above the flow-through bulkhead, thus not creating any noise from the flow of the water through the bulkhead and reduce the noise of water passing through the weir. The eshopps overflow comes with a drilling guide that you can use to drill the aquarium. Someone in the reviews section provided some good insight if the aquarium is rimmed, quoted below. This is some solid advice.


I bought this overflow for my 40 gallon breeder tank. It comes with everything you need. Diamond drill bit, stencil to determine where to drill, and the overflow itself including the bulkheads. One note to make, its best on a rimmed tank to put the stencil on the inside of the tank and drill from the inside out. Otherwise your water level will be to low. It works great, its extremely quiet.

The idea the person quoted is simple - you want the overflow box that is inside your aquarium to be as close to the top of the aquarium as possible.

You are correct though, with the particular image that you shared with the text, there is a high likelihood that that particular overflow / shadow box design is a poor one. This is because the flow-through bulkhead is so high that you wouldn't typically be able to appropriately tune the drain(s) so that the water level covers the flow-through bulkhead. Notice the height of the box on the inside of the aquarium is the same as the outside in the image vs. the eshopps model which is lower. This allows the standpipe to stand well above the top of the bulkhead and keep the water level above it. In the image above, I would be nervous tuning a main drain with an emergency drain since that flow-through bulkhead is already so close to the top rim. I would be afraid of potential spillage. This wouldn't be the case with the eshopps one.

Tom - you make a good point. There are overflow boxes that do just hang over a tank rather than requiring drilling. The main drawback here is that on HOB overflows, you're relying solely on the effect of the siphon to handle water movement. If you were to ever lose power, those siphons are sometimes hard to re-establish without manual intervention. There are some models that have ways around it (i.e. with an airpump), but even sometimes those don't correct themselves. Drilling through the aquarium is the only way to guarantee that your drain will start properly without flooding your house after a power outage.

[Shan_Evolved]

I am getting closer and closer to settling on the Eclipse M Overflow Box (https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/eclipse-m-overflow-box-800-gph-eshopps.html).

Will do some more research and investigate the water line issue with these types of overflows

[AquaticNerd]

The images that I've found seem to be a little deceptive. The ones at BRS are zoomed out without being able to zoom in, so I went poking around and found it listed here: https://www.marinedepot.com/eshopps-overflow-box-eclipse-m

It seems like the included PVC for the inside of the box does extend up past the top of the flow-through bulkhead. This would alleviate any issue of noise going through there. Same principle as not being able to hear water moving through your home's water supply unless you're at the source where the water is mixing with air. Since the water line is above the bulkhead, you wouldn't hear it make any noise.

If you do go the eshopps route and since you've got a spare 10 gallon, you can always give it a shot on that one first so you can test out the drilling to understand the placement. If the cracked 10 gal can still hold water well enough - you can also do a test fill to get a feel for how the water fill flow. You can always test outside with dry-fitting so you don't have to worry about leaks, and you can test dry fitting a gate valve on the main drain to understand how to tune the overflow when the time comes.

Tuning is pretty simple. The way I did it was fairly straightforward. Leave the gate valve wide open and allow the water level to settle. Then ever so slightly begin closing it until you've just got it barely trickling down the emergency one. Just don't do the dumb thing I did and tie both drains in together at the sump and leave them separate.

[coralbandit]

The Eclipse comes with bit and template .
I have one that I never got around to installing for a paladarium .
I like the looks of it and think they are probably one of the best designs I have seen .
You will be drilling closer to the top with most setups .
A steady flow at near surface level will be quieter then a sucking hole 4 inches below the surface.
The box/weir is a waterfall and will make some noise depending on flow .
For noise from back of box I always had a towel over mine since the 1980's .
Even with CPR overflows that had acrylic covers ..They were still loud or the loudest thing ..

[Shan_Evolved]

Great idea with using some spare small tanks lying around to dry fit test as well as flow adjust. Good for a first timer like me. Also I'm glad to hear your feedback Tom. I will have to manage with a bit of trial and error but I'm sure I can figure it out as I go.

In other news, built this stand with my friend's help. Decorative paneling will come in the next few weeks I hope.

130318

Also found a good deal for a fiji cube similar 800gph overflow and jumped on it. Will be messing around once it all gets here in a week or 2.

____

Also other news regarding the discus -

QT is over for my 3 newer ones and I've put all 4 back into my main tank. One of the 4 that I took out as a test fish actually stopped eating for some reason a few days before I took him out, but as soon as I put him in the QT tank, he gobbled everything up and became a massive bully to the new 3 turqs. All of that doesn't matter now as all 14 are together now.

Also cleaning the tank more often since my own beefheart mix is a bit messier than I anticipated. Should have added krill mix.

______________

A few concerns. Ever since I received the 3 turqs, 1 of them has acted kind of odd.

He will still eat, swim, and mingle with all the other discus but I will occasionally find him slight tail standing (at an angle). He isn't always at the top of the tank (I have plenty of surface agitation), so I don't think its an oxygen issue. But he seems fine none the less.

My red scribblet has not been eating since the final levamisole treatment. Hoping he starts to soon. Will continue to do water changes and watch them closely. Helping a freind move today, so a video will come around tomorrow. Thank you all again for your help in my 125 setup

[farebox]

I have a 125-gallon Aqueon tank and not drilled. I have a pre-filter system from LifeReef.com that's has been running for over 5 yrs. now without any issues. I turn off the return pump at least three times a day for feeding, once a week for water changes, never failed to re-start. I highly recommend this overflow box, check out the website for more info. My video: https://youtu.be/-OjYwLnx7Is

[Iminit]

Great looking well built stand. Enjoy building it out.

There always seems to be one discus off from the rest. Just happens. As long as it does eat it will be ok. I’ve got one that eats just enough to live and one that eats vigorously but hides in the back of the tank by the filters.

I don’t know who’s losing siphon in their undrilled overflow? This new ones been running for a few months now. Never lost siphon. I change water 4 times a week. Also had a similar setup years ago that ran for a least 10 years without a problem.

Farebox yours is different than mine. What is the pvc pipe in the back box for?

[farebox]

It's a silencer. No gurgling sound of the water draining down to the sump.

[Iminit]

Nice that is my major noise. Mine has a sponge there. Does yours have a sponge somewhere in the overflow? Does the pvc have holes in it for the water to run through?

[Shan_Evolved]

Still waiting on parts and stuff to arrive, It will be another week or 2.

Here is a video of feeding. You can see the red scribblet still not showing interest. It's been a week now.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1ZaCe7DCB8&feature=youtu.be

[AquaticNerd]

Shan, the fish look great. I love the way they attack that food. :)

As far as the Red Scribblet is concerned, I can't begin to guess as to why it refuses to eat - bullying maybe? From the video, it looks healthy. Fins are all spread and not clamped, no heavy breathing, swimming around fine, and the head isn't pinched in like it's losing weight. Just not showing interest in the food. What else have you tried in order to get it to eat?

I'm sure others with more experience than I will be able to chime in and perhaps give better suggestions. I wouldn't be too concerned after 1 week. If it gets to 2, I'd be a little more concerned.

[bluelagoon]

Nice set up and nice looking discus. Some folks raise the temp a degree or so to find out if it'll increase metabolism for picky eaters. Maybe try 86f.

[FLBlue]

Very nice discus Shan, what are your current favorites?