Growing out in planted tank... again :P

[pastry]

Alright, if you missed the first one (2012-2015), you can find it here: http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?98299-Growing-out-in-planted-tank&highlight=

I figured, "Why not?"...

Bottom line though: Best bet for growing big, healthy, long living discus is going to be bare bottom. But if you're curious, follow along after reading the first time I documented it. I'm brutally honest about my screw ups, and I swear to swear if someone (not jokingly) replies, "Bare bottom is the only way to raise young discus!"... then I'm going to knit pick everything you ever post for not reading, "Bottom line though..."

I'll describe my baseline tomorrow. Here are old pics (and some new) in the meantime
127915

127916

127917

127918

127915

127919

127920

[danotaylor]

Regulators, let's ride! Giddyup Elliot. Watching what you do and how you go bloke!

[BrendanJ23]

Interested and following,!

[peewee1]

My dream would be to have the Homes & Gardens award winning aquariums like the ones I see here. You well know that all posting here have their own opinion. What works for them is not what works for you or me. You may recall that in the world where the often and always advice is 1 fish per 10 gallons abounds...I am 1 fish for 5 gallons in the bare bottom tank. So I am going to sit here and enjoy your photos and dream that I could do what you are doing.

[fljones3]

Watching for success :)
Seems to me that the ones who have successfully done planted tanks used adult fish with very minimal bioload and feeding.

[brewmaster15]

I'm in Elliot! Looking forward to watching the Journey! Should be a great project to read along on.

Al

[Iminit]

Lol! This should be fun! I also am trying the opposite. I’m starting a bare bottom tank. I’m happy with my planted tank but want to see if doing everything the same in a bare tank brings bigger Discus. I ordered 8 Hans discus that should come on tues. Pastry not trying to hijack your thread just thought this was funny. My new set-up127924 the 45 is the grow out tank. I’m looking for bigger tank now :).

[Disgirl]

Elliot I will also be watching your new thread. As a bare-bottom-grow-out- tank doer, I will readily admit that your way is much more interesting to watch and enjoy. Other than the beautiful discus, a bare bottom tank is quite boring (most of the time). I do have wood with Anubias on it, but that is no planted tank, right?
Barb

[peewee1]

Lol! This should be fun! I also am trying the opposite. I’m starting a bare bottom tank. I’m happy with my planted tank but want to see if doing everything the same in a bare tank brings bigger Discus. I ordered 8 Hans discus that should come on tues. Pastry not trying to hijack your thread just thought this was funny. My new set-up127924 the 45 is the grow out tank. I’m looking for bigger tank now :).

Tom, you are looking good at 5:36pm. But I must ask, are you near-sighted because that clock, while as round as the discus that you are beholding to, has got to be a Big Ben fry.

[Second Hand Pat]

Alright Elliot, show us what you got buddy :D Looking forward to your progress :)
Pat

[brewmaster15]

Alright Elliot, show us what you got buddy :D Looking forward to your progress :)
Pat

No Pressure Elliot! No Pressure AT ALL!!!!:evilgrin:


al

[LizStreithorst]

I'm in. I tried planted with adults not that long ago and despite all my hard maintenance they started getting pimples due to water quality. They sure were a beautiful sight in among the plants for 6 months. I'd love to see how things go with you.

[pastry]

HOLY CRAP... didn't expect this many replies yet! "No pressure, Elliot..."... too late for that! LOL

Fred, I 100% agree, but since many here know that I like posting my screw ups (and a common screw up is raising in planted tank with expectations of large discus) then think of it as watching someone documenting this for folks in the future to have concrete proof why its difficult growing young discus in planted tank. Soooo... I "set the bar low" so I'm never disappointed :antlers:

I think my last thread on this I was hoping for average of 5.75" throughout group BUT striving for smaller size difference in sizes (i.e., rather than one at 5" and one at 7", have something along lines of 5.75 to 6.75). I know I know... depends on genetics of each fish, but I feel the "grouping" (like shooting practice) is tighter the better you are.

I've already got topics I'll type up tonight:
-my screw up with cedar wood
-replaced lights
-quarantine screw mess up months back
-scape changing
-using local sand makes the moko meter go up in tank
-change in local water 1.5 years ago

I'll get some new pics & use laptop so I type more.

[pastry]

Alright, may need more time... behind schedule on some stuff I have to get done tonight. Had an unexpected request to help a buddy out in need and that ate up time. Any how, I'll still post pics tonight.

Current Situation:
I lost all of my original group (except for one) when I got 3 new 3.5-4" discus in early March. I did not QT (I have 1 150 gallon show tank and 1 26 gallon tank in my son's room... which I should've used to QT). That said, I don't think it was the new discus bringing in a "bug" to the old group anymore... I think it was my dumbass having red cedar in my tank as driftwood (I knew not to... but a looong time ago had red cedar driftwood that was much more weathered and probably all toxins had leached out... yet whatever remained in that wood ended up making every fish in the tank seem like they took Viagra 3 times a day, every day). So... upon taking all red cedar out... every thing was fine (and only had 1 original discus and the 3 new ones). I later did an experiment with a 2 gallon, tall, clear, cylinder vase with bettas, cherry shrimp, and BN in it (they'd been in there for a few years), low and behold, they all died after a week when I put one piece of that same cedar in.

I LOOOVE using local DW, substrate, and rocks... but I certainly learn the hard way some times. But when I've discovered some cool, natural things that have a positive effect, then it's AWESOME (and it's the reason I keep experimenting). I'm not happy with aquascape right now but going to re-do very soon with DW from a lake that's always made my discus and other fish VERY happy. Just hate going due to HUGE freak'n gators.

I've also discovered that every 3 or so months if I add about a quart of sand from a local, inner coastal location, then it also helps makes plants thrive, helps stabilize my now-crazy tap water, and hasn't had a bad affect (yet).

Other discus than the 4 mentioned previously:
-Small crew of nickel sized Alenquers (I think F3) from an awesome dude in Chicago
-Small crew of quarter+ sized from Mac's Discus (his grow fast but I'm not happy with one portion of our transaction... see the "Mac's Discus" thread for my comments there)

Other fish/critters:
-Apache Apistogrammas
-BN's
-Ember tetra
-Cory cats
-Cherry Shrimp (that are out of control...)
-Raphael Catfish (to eat the Cherry Shrimp... if they are, they aren't eating fast enough!!!)
-Amano Shrimp that I swear are like 6-7 years old now

Plants:
-Bronze Sword
-Java Fern
-Amazon Sword
-Tiger Lilly
-various Anubias

Lighting:
Had LEDs custom made about 6-7 years ago but they were finally worn slap out the saddle. Switched to (possibly temporarily) $18.99 Lowe's purchase of the LED, sticky strips. 8 ft long. Beautiful soft yellow and stronger than I thought. Still may not be strong enough for plant growth. May add supplemental lighting at portions of the day.

Substrate:
Sand from Folly Beach (it's apparently illegal to take... didn't know). Now add sand from buddy's dock

Wood:
NOT RED CEDAR ANYMORE! But temporary wood for time being. Also some river rocks.

Filtration:
Can't wait to move and do a sump but for now a canister filter

Water Change Routine:
My water change routine SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!… (everyone catch that?). Still better than most other aquarium hobbyists (non-discus) but NOT as good as I should be doing. 75% water change twice a week. Striving for 3 times a week because I KNOW that extra would be a tremendous difference.

….alright... pausing for now. Have to get on some work but will post pics before I hit the sack

[brewmaster15]

Elliot take a deep breath.. relax . Theres no timeclock to punch with your hobby. Update us as you can.:) Life Happens.
Al

[brewmaster15]

Ps.. I have had a bad experience as well with red cedar.. used an.old stump and lost a bunch of discus years ago.
Al

[pastry]

I made a promise though! Not the best pics.

127934
Old discus paired with new discus. New one is mail... shot blanks. But old girl guarded and guarded and guarded for a week (even after all fungused over... I had to scrape them).

127935

127936

127937

127938

127939

[ATTACH]127940[/ATTACH

[Iminit]

Peewee wow there is a clock!! Wife must have snuck that in! Could have got one with a fish on it :(.
Pastry if looking for lighting look into the vivagrow 24/7 lighting. Works well and they are cheap. Probably a little over $100 for 2 36” or 48”. Found on eBay. Nice looking setup. Also if looking for plants I usually cut twice a month and I could send you some. I have a giant hygro that gets bushy at the top and grows to the top of the tank. Westeria,anacharis hornwort and an interesting sword Vesuvius angustifolia.

[pastry]

Tom, THANKS!!!!! Might PM you to ask more about those lights.

As for plants, they'll take back off. I had too many cocktails (surprise surprise) and waaaaay over thinned the java fern, swords, val, and lillies :idea2:

I have a hate-love relationship with val. Hets out of control in a heartbeat but also has been a common variable when multiple species are spawning (may be only coincidence, but has happened over multiple times where I've let val get out of control).

Sorry to ALL for crappy pics last night. I'm going to use the real camera today and get better ones. Just have a hard time staying under 2MB. My wife's iPad takes GREAT pics and are under 2MB... but getting her off than damn thing at this point of the day... ain't happening

[pastry]

127949
127950
127951
127952
127953
127954
127955
127956
127957
127958
127959

[pastry]

So the 1st & 8th pic are of the "Red Rose" from Mac's (what does it really look like though?... yeah, not even close)

2, 4, 5, 6, 7 & 9 are the only current pair in the tank. Old one that survived my latest huge screw up is the Alenquer cross from Uncle Sam's when they were a sponsor. I SWEAR I thought it was a male (spawned before)... but nope! The young RC (who I loooove) from Kenny is infatuated with her. He just needs his testicles to stop shooting blanks.

They're dancing & shimmying like crazy now. They'll spawn again soon.

The two 3Rs from Kenny are BEAUTIFUL but one is very antisocial. Hangs in opposite corner from other 3 larger ones. I see many newbies get worried when that happens... DON'T worry (short answer). Social totem pole changes constantly. Leave it be! Is it pooping? Yep,... so it's fine. If not fine then let Darwin take his course (IMO).

Still pissed at Mac's discus but I swear all 5 are growing faster than I've ever seen ANY TYPE of fish I've kept. And that's saying a lot since my WC routine is sub-par.

Well the tank overall isn't sexy (to me) like I've loved in the past but that's why I liked doing a multi-year thread in the past... to see many different things evolve over time (plants, scape, discus, tankmates, etc.).

I do hope in this one to show a successful spawn with fry making it to maturity in the tank without interference
... and I'll put money on it that it may begin to happen VERY soon after seeing certain traits of current pair... ;)

[peewee1]

Peewee wow there is a clock!! Wife must have snuck that in! Could have got one with a fish on it :(.
Pastry if looking for lighting look into the vivagrow 24/7 lighting. Works well and they are cheap. Probably a little over $100 for 2 36” or 48”. Found on eBay. Nice looking setup. Also if looking for plants I usually cut twice a month and I could send you some. I have a giant hygro that gets bushy at the top and grows to the top of the tank. Westeria,anacharis hornwort and an interesting sword Vesuvius angustifolia.

Hey, Baby Big Ben, what time is it?

[peewee1]

E-man, the red one with the brown patch in the middle is a what? Red Alenquer?

[pastry]

E-man, the red one with the brown patch in the middle is a what? Red Alenquer?

Yo PeeWee! It's actually a Red Cover male. Ton of red pigmentation for a male. Surprised me. Got it from Kenny's February shipment.

Some of my all time favorites were his (Forrest's) RCs with blue halos back around 2012. Man thise were freak'n amazing to me. But these latest RCs seem much different. The former ones were like a velvety, rich, sunset red with just eye bar (I know... "WTH does velvety mean?"... just the only way I could describe it). But now they're getting more and more fire engine red that seamlessly go from body to fins. The blue halo ones back then didn't grow like other brown based reds (stayed smaller) and this one (although male... my old blue halos ended up being all female) is growing like a weed. I believe he was an "AB grade" as well... but damn, I'll take those AB grades any day.

[peewee1]

What does AB mean? Are they more select that "select grade" With regard to the RC with blue halo it is possible that Forrest's pairs all died and as he continued with the generation inbreeding they lost the blue halo?

[Iminit]

Lol lookin at 11:30 :). I think AB is a lesser quality. Go figure!
Elliot are you saying that just the female red covers are all red?

[peewee1]

Yes, 11:30 is correct. I was testing because I do believe I can see your clock from my house and I am 2 time zones away!

[peewee1]

Lol lookin at 11:30 :). I think AB is a lesser quality. Go figure!
Elliot are you saying that just the female red covers are all red?

I took this from a 2018 Willie post. "Sellers will advertise "select grade" or "A grade" to signify that their discus is better than usual. If every discus they offer is "select" or "A grade", it would certainly suggest a lot of BS. Sometimes, you see offers where only a few discus strains are described as "select grade" or "A grade". The same strain may also be offered without the "select grade" designation or called out as "B grade". These will be priced lower. That makes sense to me. Of course, it's up to your eye to confirm whether or not the designation is deserved. Just saying it doesn't make it so." http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?130471-What-is-a-quot-Select-Grade-quot-and-quot-A-grade-quot-discus

Now so as not to hijack this great and wonder thread I have not seen a discus so red and then have the brown patch center body and it has the black halo as well. I my mind, E, you have a rather unique RC. I looked at all of the February Kenny fish and did not notice that one. Good job!

[pastry]

PeeWee, you didn't hijack! This type of stuff is fresh material brother. Funny thing is "Growing in Planted" is not fresh... but I liked the first time I did it because it was a fresh way to do a non-fresh, reoccurring topic we see folks start and disappear after a week (and yes, I'm drinking tonight... if anyone couldn't tell by "fresh", "non-fresh"...:antlers:).

Totally agree on "...it's up to your eye...". My own opinion with Kenny/ Forrest is the don't seem to pound their chest on all they're discus being champions. The majority of the market who's at least aware of them tend to simply see their product as quality (meaning, healthy, beautiful hormone free, no beaks, etc.). My own interpretation is their own internal grading (e.g., "These RCs are a hell of a lot more red than this group of my RCs"). I could be wrong and not my place to say that's how they do it but just my guess after years of drooling like a hungry dog staring at a steak every time Kenny posts a new shipment.

Tom,
Yes! BUT, only as a rule of thumb for most brown based reds (not just RCs). One of my blue halo girls was more brown than red (often halos were more a trait of a female with many brown based reds on market). My current RC male through me off because I thought he'd be a female. RRs have been easier for me (with Kenny's and some others acclaimed RRs) regarding "Red & Hal = female... brown/ginger color & no halo = male". Again, only rule of thumb but it seems to be most reliable "tell" if you were putting money on it like roulette.

My VR males in the past had black halos (and 2 eventually had halos turn blue... wierd... look at pics in old thread... cool seeing over time). Those VRs grew GREAT under my crappy WC regime. All 3 just shy of 7" in the end. Glad to see Kenny pushing VRs again!

[peewee1]

with regard to the black halo reds. I found that to be true with the Red Alenquer. Advertised as "with halo" but I do have a male is ginger in color with no black halo. As you said with your RRs.

[trose]

Can you tell me what LED lights you have over your tanks. I've got a 75 gallon tank with plants but I'm afraid
of algee due to lights that are to strong.

[pastry]

PeeWee, any updated pics on your reds?

Trose, right now just temporarily using:
1. Strip of LEDs from Lowes (literally have a sticky side so I stuck them under bottom of my lid). They aren't strong enough for great growth... but cheap for temp solution.
2. Added 15" LED aquarium strip from old, small tank in order to get a little extra help for growth in mean time.

T5s were the best for me when I used to use them (a white bulb and a pink). But too hot and not as energy efficient as LEDs. I had a custom LED strip made around 2012-13 and it has now gone out at portions (and OEM is no more). A little red light with white makes my plants fatter. Blue with white made them long & skinny (and made brown based red discus look dark). Check out page 13 of old thread (post#186)... I have a good comparison visual you might like (hell, I even forgot about it)

[peewee1]

PeeWee, any updated pics on your reds?

Trose, right now just temporarily using:
1. Strip of LEDs from Lowes (literally have a sticky side so I stuck them under bottom of my lid). They aren't strong enough for great growth... but cheap for temp solution.
2. Added 15" LED aquarium strip from old, small tank in order to get a little extra help for growth in mean time.

T5s were the best for me when I used to use them (a white bulb and a pink). But too hot and not as energy efficient as LEDs. I had a custom LED strip made around 2012-13 and it has now gone out at portions (and OEM is no more). A little red light with white makes my plants fatter. Blue with white made them long & skinny (and made brown based red discus look dark). Check out page 13 of old thread (post#186)... I have a good comparison visual you might like (hell, I even forgot about it)

I asked my son to take photos but so far no luck.

[Iminit]

Well I’ve got a pic of my red :). 127966 any idea if male or female. Comin at ya at 10:47 peewee :).

[pastry]

I'll take a swag! Girl! (But I'm usually wrong! ) Either way, "wow" on the red factor. How old is it? Curious

[Iminit]

I bought it nov last year from uncle sams. Bought it at 5” and it grew an inch. Bought it with a green that is brown127973 the red is a funny fish. Healthy but if there’s a water problem this fish turns black and gets pimples all over it. 2 water changes and there gone. Black and pimply it still goes after food with out a problem. Just strange.
And is this too a female? I got a feeling I’ve got 13 females in my125 and that can’t be good :eek::eek:

[pastry]

Tom, I'm not even sure if first one is female. My gut says they're both female... but my gut also made me think, "Is that the same fish? Just different lighting?" VERY similar shape, eye body ratio, etc.

Totally a believer that NO ONE can tell 100% unless witnessing spawning (and seeing eggs come out of only one). While a better bet, still don't go off size, colors, pointed dorsal & anal fins, who's more aggressive, that dumb drawing I've seen on intersecting lines on/outside of tail from casual & dorsal fins' back-half... even during spawning, if you think the female has the more blunt, larger tube but don't watch eggs come out, then you could still be wrong... because some males are hung like Ron Jeremy :shocked:

Funny you mentioned Uncle Sam's sending green that's brown... had same experience but didn't argue since still liked the fish.

[pastry]

128026
Here they go. Male miiiiight have had a few "non-blanks"... we'll see. Spawned approx 22 hours ago. I'm thinking one or two more spawns before he fertilizes at least a third/half buuuut... I'm not interfering. If there are even 1 or 2 wiggles, I'm leaving them alone.

I do think they'll be strong enough parents to raise some fry.


128025

[pastry]

Yeah, probably going to be all white again.
128036

Once the Male stops shooting blanks, I'm willing to bet this pair raises little ones to maturity without intervention

[pastry]

Yeah... male shot blanks again. No sign of ANY fertilized. He was even better this time of sharing fanning duties and "fire watch" though. I'll take that.

I'm going to go ahead and go into periodic update mode unless anything worthwhile happens in the tank. I still plan to improve Aquascape but will probably stick to once a week or once every other week updates on growth.

[danotaylor]

Bugger mate, hope for the joy next time!

[peewee1]

Well I’ve got a pic of my red :). 127966 any idea if male or female. Comin at ya at 10:47 peewee :).

suspect male, Tom. The other female. That is my giess and I am sticking with it.

[pastry]

Haven't forgotten about this thread but big time busy with my regular job plus burning midnight oil standing up my own company (didn't plan on that but a supporter in the past came back and basically reignited that effort). All 6 Alenquers (the tiny ones... bad parentingon my part) died but the 5 young ones from <bleep> are doing quite well. The older 4 are fine. The RR and Alenquer cross finally had a spawn with fertile eggs. Only about 30 wigglers. I think within the next 2 or 3 spawns they'll raise a few. Saw a few free swimmers eating off of parents one of the mornings but unless there are about 100 then none will make it. The past pairs to be successful in the community tank usually had 100-150 free swimmers, 20-30 would make it to 3 weeks, then a few beyond 6-9 weeks since I don't put effort into them. I think I might try netting out 6-8 if it happens with this pair and put them in my son's 26 gallon to help them... we'll see... I have to kill his fish first though... lol... kidding... (maybe)

[pastry]

128396

Suuuuure, Mac... this isn't a Pigeon blood (I don't claim to be the sharpest tool in the shed... but I didn't get into discus yesterday, schmuck)

Below are updated pics. Plant growth sucks. I just added stronger lighting like I used to have (on timer... lights on these photos are weak LEDs for evening). Still need to get "sexier" driftwood. I don't like the current scape.

128397

128398

128399

128400

128401

128402

[peewee1]

I like yout tank as it is, Elliot.

[Iminit]

Elliot if interested I have some westeria and hygro I could send your way. Both fast growing and growing good in discus tank. Westeria needs light so put it higher up in the tank. Will put up pics if you’d like. Also is it the same fish in pics 4 and 5 and are those from Mac. Also how big are they now? Look to have doubled in size.

[pastry]

PeeWee, thanks! I love how my past aquascapes had tons of plants and some cooler driftwood though. I just haven't found the next "perfect-to-pastry piece"

Hey Tom! I might take you up on that! Once I get new lights then I'm sure all of my java fern, anubias, and swords will start reproducing out of control again. I'll send some if you want!
Pic 4 is a male RR... my current "dad"
Pic 5 is one of my 3Rs... soooooo red! But still a brown-based red which is my jam.

Here are some previous scapes I've had:

128407

128408

128409

[pastry]

Ugghhh... tank is still ugly compared to what I want. Still need to get different DW. Also added additional old lighting to get the plants to rebound. Embarrassed to post this tank layout but I promised the truth...

128715

[Iminit]

Hey Elliot it seems the red and brown I put up earlier have mated. Have eggs as of yesterday but seems like fungus today. Looks like peewee called it. The red I think is the male. Will see what happens. As to my bare bottom tank I gave up on it.128716 I moved them into the 75 :).

[peewee1]

Play with it a bit, Elliott. The tank looks good I think. The fish will be happy if you make it look like their Amazon home

Thanks PeeWee! Still, I want my plants back! I love the contrast of the bright green against the discus. He'll get back to normal since I added a few old like that I had previously taken out. Just going to take time. I just have to stop watching the pot of water and waiting for it to start boiling!

[peewee1]

Hey Elliot it seems the red and brown I put up earlier have mated. Have eggs as of yesterday but seems like fungus today. Looks like peewee called it. The red I think is the male. Will see what happens. As to my bare bottom tank I gave up on it.128716 I moved them into the 75 :).

You moved the suspected pair to a 25, Tom? See what happens for a few weeks. If nothing them maybe leave the female and then exchange males.

[pastry]

Tom, in my community tank usually only a few eggs whatever turn white. But the current City water company that took over a few years ago has done something to the water. I currently have a beautiful pair spawning and after many tries they still can't get Beyond about 30 hatchlings out of about 250 eggs. My tank of course isn't designed to be clean, but holy crap what a difference.

I like PeeWee's advice plus your decision. And I'm going to say it before someone else does, yes, your Discus are on the small size and possibly stunted but they can still reproduce successfully. My first ever pair to raise little ones in a community tank with a ton of tank mates were 2
Stunted lfs discus (with attitudes!). Have fun and keep us posted, boss!

[pastry]

I'm going to stop this thread. The new water company has messed with the tap so much that I can't keep doing my method of using straight from tap pWCs anymore but I'm not setting up an aging process since we're moving soon.

Just lost beautiful female without warning. I can't even figure it out.

I'll start a 3rd one of these once we move. Still staying nearby (same water source) but I'm immediately setting up 2 water aging barrels, switching from canister to sump (building a whole new cabinet & canopy), and starting over with a new crew of discus. I'll move the current ones to another tank.

Ugghhhh... so frustrating!!!!!!!!!!!!!! But yet another sign I need to change my scheme of maneuver

[dornblaser]

Good luck with the move and the new system, thanks for sharing your story.

[pastry]

Thanks Dave!

[peewee1]

Good job all around, Elliott, looking forward to seeing your new post from your new home.

[pastry]

Thanks PeeWee! I can't wait to re-cock the whole set-up. I'll still be a dumbass and take some risks (local sand, find my own DW, etc) but I don't have a choice anymore on using tap without aging. The cabinet I make will be flanked by tall, wide, matching pillars that will hide an aging barrel in each. I'm going to plumb the shhhhh
.. out of it! Plus sump within cabinet. The whole idea will be, "Work hard upfront... to be lazy :antlers: "

[Second Hand Pat]

Hi Elliot, sorry to hear about your current situation but love the plan moving forward. You definitely need to do a build thread on that stand. Sounds very interesting :D
Pat

[pastry]

Sooo... I know I said I am ending this thread, because of the previously mentioned situation with water and getting ready to move, but... I bought a few more discus & moved around Aquascape again :confused:

"Why?"

It was a combination of 3 things:
(1) wife said, " I really like it when you shape it up the way you want it because people immediately get hypnotized by it and of course that could always help with getting a good price on the house since it's been so cool in the past..." ( she later regretted saying that...:evilgrin: )
(2) impatience
(3) beer, wine, & fireball

With the current water situation I should not have purchased them. However, it was someone local who I never tried before but the Price was Right and I am definitely impressed with what they gave me. I might just have to make a temporary aging water process while at the current house. I also need to add a little bit more driftwood.

I'll take a few pics with camera in a few hours.

[pastry]

I will try getting some much better pictures with my actual camera instead of my phone camera on this next coming weekend if able. Until then,...

128960

128961

128962

128963

128964

128965

[pastry]

...and... they're all upside down (ugghhhh)

[Second Hand Pat]

...and... they're all upside down (ugghhhh)

As always you are such a hoot Elliot. Next time you post pics crop them slightly.
Pat

[Second Hand Pat]

...and... they're all upside down (ugghhhh)

Fixed :D

[pastry]

I heart the sh** out of you, Pat:love:

[Second Hand Pat]

I heart the sh** out of you, Pat:love:

LOL Elliot and cropping them did not help. I had to rotate them. :p
Pat

[pastry]

Test...
128971

[pastry]

128984

128992

128990

[pastry]

Alright, I'm SOOOO confused... I've tried everything... why all but one upside down? I even tried rotating in my editor AND even emailing them to myself..
Ughhhh

[pastry]

130830

130831

130832

130833

130834

[danotaylor]

Great looking scape Elliot. Love the heckel cross and the reds look great as well.

Tried to rotate the FTS...

130835

[Bathi]

Neck hurt little bit. But its ok..:D
Very nice tank.. :)

[pastry]

Bathi, I know what you mean! I used to be able to post pics the right way. I think I pissed off Pat & Liz and they're playing a cruel joke on me :antlers: :p :eek:

[pastry]

Dan, during the move in January, I thought I'd lost that Heckle cross... crushed under rocks! It's rebounded beautifully! I still have to be honest... this isn't my "ideal group". The Heckle and certain brown-based reds will stay.. but others will move. Added rummynose tetras and LOVE the tight school. Also got apisto. panduros

[LizStreithorst]

Bathi, I know what you mean! I used to be able to post pics the right way. I think I pissed off Pat & Liz and they're playing a cruel joke on me :antlers: :p :eek:

Don't blame me for this. I learned from Brian that if you email the pics to yourself it automatically resizes them. I only take pics with my camera. They are ready to post without any resizing.

[Bathi]

Bathi, I know what you mean! I used to be able to post pics the right way. I think I pissed off Pat & Liz and they're playing a cruel joke on me :antlers: :p :eek:

;););)

[Shan_Evolved]

Looking good man! Agreed with the neck hurt but nice fish

[pastry]

Not done with this thread but I will say with the move to new house, taking on start up while still doing full time job... this group has not been successful as a whole.

That said, I AM making my situation so I can get better than ever with WC routine, WC quality, and more (but still with planted). I DO plan to grow a seperate group in BB... but also want to get those 3Rs to either pair up together or with other brown based (or the Heckle cross) in order to raise homegrown group (and continue the lineage of the last Forrest discus from Kenny... still can't get over it... beautiful story from fella who shared story about Kenny checking himself out of hospital to do his shipment... I NEED one of those 3Rs to multiply).I have my own garage now (MY own :P ... not shared with wife... she has the other garage) --- so I'll have several grow outside in garage during 9 months of year and move (if need be) those to interior for 3 months if need be... yet my garage has excellent heating and is insulated (sorry... I just can't believe we got lucky with new house... we NEVER HAD EVEN ONE GARAGE :eek: !!!)

Meanwhile, hate to say it, but probably giving my wife that PB (that Mac's Discus piece of.... sent me when it was supposed to be a RR... HUGE difference) ... along with the random generic, POS turqs he sent me... to my wife's classroom aquarium (where they'll probably die... I don't want them back.... but if someone wants PB, she's actually a really good female... I just don't like PBs)

[Shan_Evolved]

Not done with this thread but I will say with the move to new house, taking on start up while still doing full time job... this group has not been successful as a whole.

That said, I AM making my situation so I can get better than ever with WC routine, WC quality, and more (but still with planted). I DO plan to grow a seperate group in BB... but also want to get those 3Rs to either pair up together or with other brown based (or the Heckle cross) in order to raise homegrown group (and continue the lineage of the last Forrest discus from Kenny... still can't get over it... beautiful story from fella who shared story about Kenny checking himself out of hospital to do his shipment... I NEED one of those 3Rs to multiply).I have my own garage now (MY own :P ... not shared with wife... she has the other garage) --- so I'll have several grow outside in garage during 9 months of year and move (if need be) those to interior for 3 months if need be... yet my garage has excellent heating and is insulated (sorry... I just can't believe we got lucky with new house... we NEVER HAD EVEN ONE GARAGE :eek: !!!)

Meanwhile, hate to say it, but probably giving my wife that PB (that Mac's Discus piece of.... sent me when it was supposed to be a RR... HUGE difference) ... along with the random generic, POS turqs he sent me... to my wife's classroom aquarium (where they'll probably die... I don't want them back.... but if someone wants PB, she's actually a really good female... I just don't like PBs)

Good luck with the 3Rs. Would be so touching if they did multiply. Do you have pictures of the PBs or turqs? I am in the market for some nice discus

[pastry]

Shan, I'll send pics brother. To be honest, decent-to-good shape on all 3 Turqs but PB is great shape yet only about 5.25" (she's still growing though... noticeably which is strange for me). PB is just plain light orange with VERY light peppering on extreme edges of shape (very light... but BBC I'm just not a PB dude... yet PB females have been the most consistent mothers in a dag-gone community tank ... when I don't care usually to raise little ones... yet those mothers have been ferocious).

My brother may head to our parents house soon in Newport News so if you want, I'll give them to you boss

[pastry]

130975

Canopy (front doors coming soon)

130976

130977

130978

130979

130980

130981

[Shan_Evolved]

Wow! beautiful scape dude. And the stand looks so unique its gorgeous. Well done!!!

[pastry]

Thanks Shan!!!!! Trying to figure out the perfect hinges for those front doors. About ready to put them on. I can get my Sump in without having them off so I'm going to go ahead and start putting them on. Hopefully within a month I will have the sump going. Trying to balance fixing my outboard motor and continuing with all of the plumbing I have been doing on the big tank! Eventually I will have a flip up door on front of canopy so I don't need to use a stool to lift the top wooden access. The top of the tank (minus canopy) is about 6'3"-6'4". No more squatting! And I will add a little more sand when taking out big rocks on the right. They were there to sink some of the wood. I'll use various sized, but smaller, river stones to hold sand slope on right side once done.

Plants are starting to gain speed on growth. They'll fill it in more over the next 6-7 months (I'm low tech). Anubias has never grown as fast for me as it is now!

[pastry]

Just wanted to see if new server helps me fix problem of posting pics sideways, upside down, and any way else but right side up! :P

131011

131012

[pastry]

...nope... I still suck (lol)

[AquaticNerd]

I find that it helps me to use a program such as Paint.NET (https://www.getpaint.net/index.html) to open the images on my computer to make sure that they are oriented correctly. If they are, I'll then typically resize the entire image to something manageable for forum software - typically forum software likes images in the 400x600 range, so that's what I target. Once I've done that and saved the image, I upload them to a site such as imgur (https://imgur.com/), where I can get share links for BBCode Forums. That has never failed to post a picture the correct orientation for me. I think the issue is that, when using the 'Insert Image' button in the toolbar for the forum, if the image is too large it tries to downscale the image to make it fit better for more devices and ends up inserting it sideways.

With that said, only the migration part of the work has been done so far, according to Al. Several of these "images posting sideways" issues that I see could end up going away after Al has upgraded the forum software.

[pastry]

Jake, I'm TOTALLY looking into Paint.net. I live doing long duration threads over time to see how everything evolves and ever since I switched phones one time and then another time hoping it would fix the problem, I still have a hard time getting them the correct orientation when using my phone to post. And if I continue to use my phone then I find myself posting a lot more pictures. Even when I try the other people's methods like emailing them to myself using different email addresses and platforms, my lazy butt would still go into my email address with my phone, download them, cross my fingers, and realize that crossing my fingers has never work yet I still do it and of course the photo still post anything but right side up except for one or two here in there and I can't figure out any rhythm or rhyme. Size of blame technology hating me :P

I'm going to try that though. Check out my original grow out and planted tank thread sometime around 2012-13 I think. It was cool seeing several groups of discus evolve but also seeing different types of tetras also breeding and plants multiplying like crazy, Etc. I'm a sucker for pictures in thought Fox One like looking at it but I might have been the one that loved looking at it from both after several years of doing that single thread. I'm praying your suggestion works! I want to do that with your big group of girls come my way! I even had some pairs successfully spawn & raise little ones in my old thread. I figured out the key to having a good chance of that in a community tank is to have tons of crap (obstacles... DW... Plants, etc)... and pray for one pair that has crazy OCD parenting instincts ( several made it to adulthood, one that you can see in that thread, but I should have removed then around three weeks and put them in a bare bottom to do a better job of developing them.

All right, obviously I did not get to bed early like I was supposed to because I just got done netting out 3 discus I learned a trick on YouTube and it worked for the first two of which I got easily without stressing them with all the obstacles in the way and under 10 minutes... but the third one was like that magician Copperfield fell out and had to use my wife in flashlight to find him. After an hour and 20 minutes we finally found him!) go to my wifes classroom tank so that I can get the group closer to brown base Reds Plus 1 Heckel cross that I love. Unfortunately, I might move the two 3Rs I got last fall to a separate tank ( they just weren't as strong as others under my past crappy water changing routine yet I still what at least one of them to cross with a brown face red of another type).

Sorry if any typos but I am dead tired and signing off for the night!

[pastry]

So... I killed 3 of the best discus I never had (re: thread by Jake finding new home for 4 enormous 3R intermediates from our beloved, late distributor and friend, Kenny). I learn the hard way often & don't mind... but I mind this one... I knew I should've paid for the faster shipping and because I took a risk to save a buck, only 1 made it.

I'm not closing this thread... to me, the failures (especially of the worst kind) is as valuable or of more value than sharing the success stories.

I intend on breeding that remaining discus (if female as Jake suspects although it's 1/8" shy of 7"... and I think he's right... BIG girl)... with a male RR I got from Forrest & Kenny last year. I will not take them out of the show tank (not initially) and if fry make it to free swimming then I'm taking them out after 2 weeks. If too much egg eating then putting pair in their own tank. Regardless, I cannot make up for being a cheap ******* who killed 3 amazing fish from (IMO) the best distributor (and I love all sponsors here... but connected with Kenny)... but I can at least make myself happy by keeping those lines going (sure, I'll share... but I'll screw up multiple times before having any breakthroughs on success).

[pastry]

131068
Hard to see new discus from Jake, but although my big RR danced for it like crazy upon introduction... it seems to be making a connection with Heckle cross (and I didn't worry about a connection... I just wanted it to live).

Meanwhile, the RR is now on the side of the tank with a 3R (a puny 3R ... puny because of purchasing before moving to new house and having WCs suffer more than my normal/past WC regime). Very cool seeing dynamics change after removing several from the group... never would have thought

131069

[pastry]

131070

[Shan_Evolved]

Looks like a playground for the discus in there

[pastry]

131124

131125

131126

Good Lord... the size difference

[pastry]

Big Brown is a dude! (With a LOT of girth...)

Spawning with my Heckle cross!131138

131139

[pastry]

131152

131153

131154

[danotaylor]

Tank and discus look great Elliot!

[pastry]

Thanks Daniel! I'm even looking at plant growth since mid-January and they're definitely growing. In about a month I can split java ferns and anubias again in order to start spreading onto wood (filling gaps). LEDs are good but nothing beat T-5s for plant growth (just too hot with T-5s... switched about 7 years ago... but LEDs still grow them... just about 35-40% slower although my anubias do better with LEDs).

[pastry]

Can't figure it out... the big guy and sexy Heckle Chica spawned again and above average on protection of eggs... then at 60 hr mark, "poof"... gone. Had to happen between 2-4pm today. Not many fungused eggs at all... but usually by then I can see black dots in eggs but cannot confirm on this one or the other spawn (dark wood and slightly shaded). I'm shining flashlight and putting netting around eggs. If I see black dots in eggs on next spawn then I'm doing whatever it takes to get little ones one way or another

131196

131197

[seanyuki]

Rotated post#91

131198

131199

131200

[pastry]

Thanks Francis!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[pastry]

131809

Working on getting special babies OUT of showtank in order to grow big! Special gift from special mentor on here ;)

131810

131811

Dad fanning eggs. Starting to finally have spawns with wigglers... yet most eggs seem to not get fertilized.
131812

[pastry]

Again, I'm not keeping little guys in showtank much longer. 1 to 2 more weeks... until I can mature my sump then take down canister underneath cabinet (putting another tank underneath for growout). I know I can seed my sump and be fine much sooner, but I just want to be safe (and still seeded sump of course).

Lots of green hair algae because I've been violating the amount of time to run lighting (I just LOVE watching them at night!). Started turning on my blue LEDs in order to get my lillies to grow taller so that they block out lighting.

Still don't have the wood quite the way I want it...
131848

131849

131850

131851

131852

131853

I put a thermometer in sideways with black rubber gaskets exactly 1 inch apart in order to get a ruler for growth of little guys in the meantime. Smallest is in the pic below. About 1/16 shy of 2". Waiting to see others get that close but I'd say the biggest 2 about 3 on the dot. The others are really uniform in size... estimate 2.5" for each of them.
131854

[pastry]

Uggghhhhh... I thought my sideways-pic-posting problem was over! I'm sorry! I always post using my phone's (android... Samsung) gallery and I never had a problem until O/A 2 years ago :(

[pastry]

132000

[pastry]

132001
132001

[Second Hand Pat]

They are getting some color Elliot :D
Pat

[pastry]

Yes Ma'am they are ;)

I was also messing around with image posting on here... unedited pics I have to rotate counterclockwise once and it'll be good. But any edited pics (e.g., cropped, resized, etc) will do anything but post rightside up for me :huh:

I'll still count it as a victory :drummer:

[pastry]

132033

132034

132035

132036

132037

132038

132039

[pastry]

What the heck!!!!!! I tried a quarter turn so the pics would be rightside up... now they're quarter turned!?!?!?!?

[pastry]

Test...
132040
132041

[pastry]

I give up... one is sideways and one isn't? Ugghhh

[pastry]

132105
132106
132107

[pastry]

132120
132121
132122

[pastry]

Myrtle Beach Discus had 3 I couldn't resist
132142
132143
132144

[Iminit]

Nice!! Must learn resistance!!!:eek::). Good luck! Must ask what type of camera are you using?

[pastry]

Hey Tom! Just using my phone (Samsung). Unfortunately, most of my posted pics come out sideways!

[pastry]

Any Catholics or prior-Catholics (like me... raised but not "classified" anything anymore) in the house? Because, "Forgive me, Father,... for I have sinned." I hated confession by the way... yet somehow ended up painfully honest on anything (sooner or later ... but "later" on this one).

Sooooo... if you don't know already, I've ALWAYS admitted that, although I believe in the discus keeping best practices preached here, I regularly disregard a handful of cardinal rules (e.g., I often don't quarantine new fish, I have substrate & dw & plants, I only do 2 65% WCs a week.... even if juvies). Anyhow, in Feb 2020 I ordered 2 new discus and put them straight into my tank. A week later, one of them started hanging high in a corner (never a good sign) and had wierd poo (never the same poo... but a menu of poo). Since the, I would see some discus do just fine, but others wither away. So I'd add more... some new ones would wither soon after... and one or 2 "original discus" would do so as well.

What I'm getting to is:
-I was too proud to speak up
-I also didn't speak up because... those were from Kenny... who many of us still cherish. No way would I bring up... even if he were still with us, it wasn't his fault... all my fault for not following QT measures (I can't prove that fish was even the cause to any of it ... but even if so, I'd give anything to buy more from Kenny & harass his awesome arse)
-I've never experienced this rate of decline
-I think it's time to come clean because I've watched some of my favorite discus all of a sudden take a turn that shouldn't have occurred (regardless of my non-bb and WC regime)

I know, there's a disease section with Questions to answer, but I'm telling you right now that I'm going to do a metro treatment.... and not using a hospital tank (treating THE actual tank so I don't make fish better but then place back into tank.)

I've seen the recent metro thread, but dear God, I'm still seeing different mg's per 10 gallons. Regardless, would I be fine doing the highest dose I've read (500mg/10g)? And can I use crushed up pill versions from chewy.com since it's cheapest for me due to 150 gallon tank plus 30 gallon sump? I am very anti-meds with aquariums so trust me... this feels like confession... but I'd love any input and I know in the end, no matter what, it's on me

[Iminit]

Well before you treat put up pictures! Let’s see what your fish have. Is it just strange poo or are they dark in color? I too am not a fan of meds. Next open up a thread like this in the disease section. More people will see it there. The disease pros are there. They helped me earlier in the year. I too started with metro and quickly realized it was the wrong med. sorry your havin problems but hopefully it can all be solved. Next get a qt tank!! It is best for you and your fish. Qt everything. For me nothing goes in any of my tanks without qt for a month.

[seanyuki]

IMO best place to buy metronidazole is at Jehmco 100 gm for $15, I seen people people dosing at 1 gm per 10 gallons with good results.


https://www.jehmco.com/html/medications.html

[pastry]

Tom, I might... but still going to move fwd with metro (I know... nice again I'm not doing the smartest thing which is to properly answer the Q's in the disease section... but I've been combing through threads there for a good bit of time and made up my mind on metro... but after analyzing it all, the conclusion I drew was "You can't overdose, but you can certainly under dose or short dose (duration). The strange poo was only occurring with that specific discus (no worm coming out like I've run into in the past and was an easy to identify and treat). It really did have a ton of variations... fat dark turds shaped like a fat sideways snake eye, long semi clear skinny turd/string, whitish crap, etc. It didn't eat for a long time, then all of a sudden was "part of the gang", feisty, and feasting on food (yet never gained much weight, nor growth). It didn't even die until about 3 months ago when it reversed back to before. Meanwhile, no rythm nor rhyme, young healthy adults would (not at same time) start withering away within approx 10-15 days. I've always been a sub-par discus keeper but a consistent one with routine and I've never experienced this. It doesn't affect all at once (but only discus). I had a pair in the middle of a spawning cycle and totally acting healthy until one day, the dad had zero interest in anything and slowly deteriorated over 12-14 days.

Francis, I love the hell out of you for that info :heart2:

[pastry]

Just a few picture updates but really wanted to test a new start of compression app and see how the results are when posting on here.

132398

132399

132400

132401

132402

[pastry]

YESSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! FINALLY!... my pictures are right side up!

[Iminit]

Well I for one am going to miss the sideways pics!! It was fun trying to turn my iPad to the right spot just before the the whole pic moved sideways again :). Also now what’s Francis going to do?? Lol glad to see you figured it out. Discus look good. But bba is really growing strong! Do you have any SAE in the tank? They do eat it.

[pastry]

Tom, I needed that laugh after one hell of a work day :heart2: :heart2: :heart2: :jester:

Is BBA the green bearded algae? (just my own informal label I use... and usually it's bright green but turned bluish brown since doing metro). I usually like that algae on my DW but I haven't been happy with it the past year (due to a number of new variables... but also due to lighting I've used for only the past year + my past year of being lazy about turning the damn lights off... yikes).

SAE mean siamese algae eaters? If so, I usually try to keep it only Amazon derived species but if the really are that good, I'm willing to give a try... but I'll then get rid of them once satisfied. I know many say don't mix them with discus but I don't mind trying anything once (...actually, I usually try anything more than once... with exception of only a few "bedroom good ideas" that I'd rather not :eek:)

[pastry]

Latest pair are 2 brown based reds. 1 from my last purchase from Kenny (the male RR with blue face) and a female from Myrtle Beach Discus ("MBD"; I think also advertised as a RR and it started off "blah" but developed into a smooth, pretty red yet still developing... even developing hint of partial blue halo). Also, 2 little ones from Pat that are developing and then a Alenquer cross from MBD.

Unsure of others thoughts on here about MBD, but after several dealings with them, I wouldn't mind soliciting them as a sponsor if Al, moderators, and others deem "good to go". Al and/or mods, feel free to pm me on that one.

132429

132430

132431

132432

132433

[pastry]

Question: Anyone ever use a "HISVICON Immersion Water Heater Bucket Heater 1500W"? Got one for aging barrel (which I keep outside and hard plumbed into house... but it's cooold this part of year) and seems to be incredible for 5 to 8 mins until it trips my breaker.

Did I get a bad egg or ...?

[Iminit]

Hey Elliot! Yes BBA is the algae you’ve got growing on your wood. Yes SAE are Siamese algae eaters. They will eat the BBA. Get at least 2. I’ve got them in all my tanks. When buying the black line goes through the tail. A flying fox has the line stop at the beginning of the tail. A CAE Chinese has a suction cup mouth. All 3 are commonly sold as SAE. But only the one with the black line through the tail is an SAE :). Funny I though I answered this last week! Guess I forgot to press reply :).
What’s up with the lighting on your tank? It’s red and now it’s blue? I like the blue better.
As to your heater being it’s cold out it’s running at full power to keep the water warm so it’s life expectancy is being reduced. Probably why it’s tripping. Is your outside bucket insulated?

[pastry]

Tom,
I might give them a try. And I'm glad you emphasized "black line through tail"! I never knew that

LOL on lights... it's actually backlit with a cheap RC multi-colored led light behind the tank, facing upwards. Then I put a frosted film over the back so "grabs onto" the lights. I love it.

Now the heater is not an aquarium heater. It's like this rapid, psycho hot device (with no control... just on or off). It warmed up a 5 gallon bucket of 62 degree water I had (left outside at night in high 40's for air temp) to 89 degrees in 4 minutes before tripping the breaker. I'm trying to get it to not trip breaker because then I can warm up my aging barrel (100 gallons) before each WC by throwing it in maybe an hour beforehand. Even if just getting the water to 75-77 degrees. Thoughts?

Also, I might use my 220v outlet with 220v generator cable extension cord. I just thought about that.

[pastry]

Starting to rearrange. Soon hoping to do a partial (approx 40-70% scape modification by reducing current DW pieces and getting "the right" large, intricate, DW piece. Seems like when I have the right "base piece", fish are more active & less shy. Until then, I rearranged current pieces to allow more light to central, bottom plants.

Hey, any recommendations on scrubbing algae off front glass where there are scratches from previous owner of tank? (He had a damn alligator in it).

[Iminit]

It’s hard to remove that algae. Try the mister clean dry erase bars with nothing in them. They can get into the cracks.

[jpm995]

Tom,
I might give them a try. And I'm glad you emphasized "black line through tail"! I never knew that

LOL on lights... it's actually backlit with a cheap RC multi-colored led light behind the tank, facing upwards. Then I put a frosted film over the back so "grabs onto" the lights. I love it.

Now the heater is not an aquarium heater. It's like this rapid, psycho hot device (with no control... just on or off). It warmed up a 5 gallon bucket of 62 degree water I had (left outside at night in high 40's for air temp) to 89 degrees in 4 minutes before tripping the breaker. I'm trying to get it to not trip breaker because then I can warm up my aging barrel (100 gallons) before each WC by throwing it in maybe an hour beforehand. Even if just getting the water to 75-77 degrees. Thoughts?

Also, I might use my 220v outlet with 220v generator cable extension cord. I just thought about that.

Not sure i understand, you're not going to plug a 120v device into a 220v outlet, are you? It will cook the heater. If the heater is tripping the breaker, it could be a few things. The heater is defective and drawing too much current. The circuit is too low power. Is it a 15 amp breaker? Try another outlet or look for a 20amp one. The breaker could be defective, again try another outlet [on a different breaker].

[pastry]

Jim, I never said I was smart! :antlers: Didn't do it since I remembered something stupid I did in Iraq a long time ago on the same lines and realize all the damn Christmas lights weren't plugged in anymore so the breaker didn't trip. That little thing amazed the hell out of me. It was high 40s last night (cold for Charleston folks... I turned into a wuss when I moved South and I'm not ashamed!). Water was 61 in a 100 gallon, loose lid covered rubbermaid tub (filled 1 inch under brim). Water was 85 degrees in approx 1.5 hours.

I'm planning on getting a little kiddie pool and putting it in my wife garage. Then telling her while she's teaching at school that we have a new hot tub. I'm going to leave that damn thing plugged in for like 5 hours or more. Hell, I'll be in there drinking a cocktail when she gets home and hits the garage door opener only to see my fat *** loving it up in a nice redneck jacuzzi ;)

[jpm995]

I picture you having a few too many drinks, spilling booze into into pool, doing a water change and having to deal with a bunch of drunken discus.

[pastry]

LMAO... that may or may not be accurate (actually, bullseye)

[pastry]

Just rearranged most of the wood tonight.... and... hate it. I never should've gotten rid of the huge, perfect trunk I had between around 2012 to 2017. I just haaaad to change it up (DOPE!).

.... so I will have to target next weekend or the following to go hunting for "The Wood ... Part II".

I'll take pics of current crappy arrangement maybe tomorrow

[pastry]

DEFINITELY not going to be the layout for long. Replacing wood with new wood and different layout as soon as I find "The Piece" (large, long single piece).

However, I took away the "left corner hide out" which proved my assumption that they'd be more out and about... and dear God they are. "Holy crap... I can see them again!"

132585

132586

132587

[Second Hand Pat]

Hi Elliot, I like your scape :D
Pat

[pastry]

I <3 Pat :o

Few pics. My new Brown based red pair are cleaning a site (only spawned once so far). Then my female Heckle X has a young, upcoming RR male flaunting his stuff for her. He's trying hard132631

132632

132633

132634

132635.

[pastry]

I'll admit, I love wondering when I'll find my next discus pair that not only spawns in the tank and gets them to wigglers, but is dedicated enough to raise them + protect them.

This current pair... not a chance in hell. Might as well compare them to 2 spring breakers doing it and parting ways :gorgeous::cowboy:

[pastry]

Sorry, red background lights aren't the best contrast (but seems to soothe them).

132646

132647

132648

132649

132650

[pastry]

"Bless me, Father, for I have sinned... it's been ... sh**... like 15 or 16 years since my last confession? I mean, sorry Padre, but I left the Catholic church in 2007 but last confession was, uhmmmm... "

"Shut Up, Elliot... I mean, child. Let's cut to the chase --- what the hell did you do this time?"

"Sh**, what haven't I done since last confession? But I don't regret much of that... and they're always funny stories... but I can't confess to my wife,... ... ... that I 'may or may not have' purchased 2 new discus that she doesn't notice because this time they are the same strain as the others and her level of attention-to-detail (visually) is as bad as Stevie Wonder's"

"Doesn't matter, Elliot,... you're a ding dong for this being the one petty thing compared to all of the crazy crap you always confess to her anyways -- plus she doesn't ever assist you with her dumb Amazon purchases that she puts on your Capital One travel card anyways."

"Good point, Father... never mind... I take my confession back. Tell the big guy I still love'm, just have my own opinion on the Vatican ;)... time for a beer, fireball, cigarette, & water change!"

<end of donut's corny story confessing he got 2 new RR's and wife hasn't noticed... knocking on wood... and I'll tell her eventually!... when she's drinking, happy, and acts like she's listening... a year from now>

[pastry]

Added 2 teenie tiny silver Angel's to grow for my wife's tank at her school. I usually don't like keeping them with my discus but when tiny I don't mind. Funny little turds go after the shrimp like I wish the discus (...my discus) would. But they set the bar HIGH and go after the female shrimp that are as long as they are...lol

[Iminit]

Lol Elliot!! Pictures or it didn’t happen :)

[pastry]

Lol Elliot!! Pictures or it didn’t happen :)

Haaaaaa! Got one "from a far" that you'll have to zoom to see 2 new little ones & 2 angels

[Iminit]

There it is!! There it is!! What we’ve been missing!! Francis your being paged!!

[pastry]

Some updated pics.

PAT! A certain little guy literally started popping out some some blue streaks and blue in the fins within like 72-96 hours!

Meanwhile, pair in the corner sitting on eggs again and Heckle cross has (I think) 2 boys vying for her attention and I'm screaming at her to make a damn decision! (but one might actually be another female and so maybe it's the young SM male that needs to decide).

Little Angel's have grown quick over 2 weeks... told wife, "Soon they need to go to your classroom tank... cute now but not permanent in my tank"

132720

132721

132722

132723

132724

132725

132726

132727

132728

[pastry]

I'm pretty confident that I have my third pair ever that is capable of raising little ones in my planted community tank (raised long enough to adulthood.... follow this pair if I don't take all of the fry out after a couple weeks then at least take out a number of them because I love the combination of my heckle cross female with a brown base red male. The last group they had last week made it three days until I pushed my luck and went to the side of the tank they were at to take a picture and did not realize I had my phone camera on flash. Big the hell out of the parents and they jolted to the other side of the tank and didn't return for five to 7 long seconds which was enough time for my angels that I do not want in the tank, a few of my runny nose Etc that are fatter than the others and the little school I have, and one hungry little apisto female to demolished the small group of about 20 or 25 three day old free swimmers.133476

133477

About 2 months ago I did a water change with my age tap water and did so without testing the water. End up being ridiculously horrible water that I don't even think was good for human consumption, and it wreak havoc on all the fish in the tank. Almost lost them all but end up losing only one of my biscuits which was my biggest nail. Boss half of my running nose school and all but four of my Ember Etc school. It even wiped out all but one of my corydoras and love you bristlenose pleco that I kept from a pair that spawned multiple times a year ago. No more signs of any cherry shrimp at all, and to top it off, lost two of the three female apisto ninjensii I had just gotten to put with my two males in the tank. Two others in the neighborhood experienced the same and were also alerted because they had aquariums ( they lost almost all of their fish and one of them is OCD on water parameters 24/7). So three of us, as well as others we found out on John's Island, blasted the local water company and at least they really did do a sincere apology but at the same time not very cool when you see a pH below 5.0, and have readings on all three categories involving nitrites, nitrates, and ammonia... I've never seen that .

[pastry]

So the 2 damn angels that I agreed to keep in my tank VERY temporarily (for my wife) grew up and happened to me M&F. Spawned recently and had over 300 free swimmers starting 2 days ago. Right now, less than that many (thank you Rummynoses!!!!!!) but still don't want them!
133480

Meanwhile, have my RR with Heckle X pair shielding freeswimmers so I can't get pic

[pastry]

Damn Angels... Male picked off a few discus fry. Pair of discus said "Screw it, making new batch!" but still had a few eating from sides!!!!!!!

Alright, might remove that discus pair to breeding tank. I'm VERY inexperienced moving pairs from tank to breed. I'll try finding some horny goat weed to help with transition. Letting them sit on tonight's batch though.

[pastry]

Threw younger group of betta babies in with older group, then netted 2/3's of angel babies out & threw into former "younger betta container"133484

[LizStreithorst]

You sure have it going on with breeding, Elliot. Have you given your Discus pair a love nest yet. Those are nice Angels. If I were I would start breeding them, too. Your problem is that you don't have enough tanks. You need to build a fish room.

[pastry]

Liz, I'm going to show your post to my wife... YESSSSS

[pastry]

First 2 are parents (Brown
based Red & Heckle x) on eggs (both real dark). Few other random pics as well as pics in January of Heckle & Brown based red male (he was smaller then).

133486

133487

133488

133489

133490

133491

133492

133493

133494

[pastry]

So those damn baby angels... yeeeaaah... so I netted about 12-18 (or more) when I posted last pics, put them in a little plastic bin with heater & aerator, fed them infusoria,.........only 6 made it through first 3 days, then 4 past since 9/18 (so about 21 days free swimmers). I don't want angels, BUT... they're so cool as little 21 day'ers! Hope you can see them in these pics...
133549
133550

[LizStreithorst]

Angels can eat BBS since day one. Infusoria is way too small for them.

How are the Discus doing? They didn't look real happy in your last couple of pics.

[pastry]

Liz, remember, "set the bar low (with me)" ;) I now call e everything "infusoria" apparently (even my 8 year old called me out and said, "Dad, that crap you got out of the pond that you see and not put your eyeball on the bottle isn't 'infusra' (infusoria)...". I looked it up.... he was right... so I asked, "I thought your dyslexic butt couldn't read too good?"... to which he replied, "Not funny. YouTube. And I'm getting better." So I made him do push-ups (smartass kid)

Sooooo, I'm "cheating" with current discus pair in community tank. I put a redneck-engineered net divider to help protect latest spawn. Similar to what I did with that F1 PIWOW RT pair I had circa 2015-16. If I can get 40'ish fry to 4-7 days free swimming then I'm netting half of them and putting them into the plastic tub I have like the baby angels & bettas.