Can someone help me identify my discus

[daphne]

Hello,
I need help identifying two discus, they are about 3.5" to 4". They look very similar even though I thought they were different.
Help much appreciated.
First one:
128756
128757

Second one
128758
128759

The seller claimed they were these kinds:
128760
128761

They don't look anything like them.

Thank you,
Daphne

[danotaylor]

Discus.com strikes again :/

[daphne]

Discus.com strikes again :/

Yes... terrible person. The rudest on the phone and emails. I told him to cancel the order after the first communication but he shipped it anyways... none of the fishes look like what I ordered, but these two are the most obvious. Two fish were dead and some were not shipped at all. No refund was provided.
I’d love to know what they are, I decided to keep them because I was afraid they’d die if I refused the package, and they have grown on me.

[Willie]

They are Red Melon or Golden Sunshine, old strains, and not particularly high quality examples unfortunately. The last two pictures you posted are stolen from Kenny and represent several generational improvements over the fish you got. Both pictures are of Select Grade discus.

Willie

[danotaylor]

If you paid w credit card I would talk to your bank to get your money back.
Sorry for your bad experience Daphne. If only you found SD first the reviews here would have halted your purchase before you made it. The bloke is crooked as a bent stick...

[Second Hand Pat]

Hi Daphne, sorry you had a bad experience and we would have for sure recommended not going with discus.com. Did you happen to notice the name on the shipping box?
Pat

[peewee1]

If you paid w credit card I would talk to your bank to get your money back.
Sorry for your bad experience Daphne. If only you found SD first the reviews here would have halted your purchase before you made it. The bloke is crooked as a bent stick...

Call the credit card company and file a dispute. At least for the dead merchandise.

[daphne]

Thank you, I did start proceedings with the CC, hopefully in my favor. I don’t remember the name on the box unfortunately. All I know is that none of the fishes looks like what I ordered so basically it’s not at all the color and style assortment that I was trying to achieve. They are all about 4 inches long, so I’m waiting to see what they will grow into. I wish I had discover the form earlier.
I did however purchase a very nice yellow rafflesia from another breeder in SC last week, very beautiful and lively, as described

[daphne]

if these two are 4” red melons, will the yellow stripped face turn solid white and the spots in the body fade as they grow? Will they become deeper red too? I’m trying to visualize what I will have so I can choose what additional fish I want to add to my collection. Initially I wanted all reds and all yellows ( no oranges) in solids and patterns (with white). Right now I have 3 orange mystery fishes ( including the two I posted pictures of), two yellows ( one solid and one rafflesia with white markings that came from SC) and one brownish/turquoise with stripes ( I didn’t want stripes or turquoise but it’s here now). So depending on what these orangey looking fish will become, I may want to ad a patterned deep red panda or checkerboard, and a deep red melon so I can have the reds I initially wanted.
Thanks for the help.
D.

[peewee1]

if these two are 4” red melons, will the yellow stripped face turn solid white and the spots in the body fade as they grow? Will they become deeper red too? I’m trying to visualize what I will have so I can choose what additional fish I want to add to my collection. Initially I wanted all reds and all yellows ( no oranges) in solids and patterns (with white). Right now I have 3 orange mystery fishes ( including the two I posted pictures of), two yellows ( one solid and one rafflesia with white markings that came from SC) and one brownish/turquoise with stripes ( I didn’t want stripes or turquoise but it’s here now). So depending on what these orangey looking fish will become, I may want to ad a patterned deep red panda or checkerboard, and a deep red melon so I can have the reds I initially wanted.
Thanks for the help.
D.

You can increase the red by feeding red color enhancing foods. Foods with shrimp and salmon are a few of the red color foods.

[Willie]

if these two are 4” red melons, will the yellow stripped face turn solid white and the spots in the body fade as they grow? Will they become deeper red too?...

I don't believe these fish will change their coloration or pattern at all. They'll likely look the same or more faded as the fish gets bigger.

Willie

[daphne]

I don't believe these fish will change their coloration or pattern at all. They'll likely look the same or more faded as the fish gets bigger.

Willie

Thank you all. While I have had brackish and African tanks for years, I am a complete newbie with discus. I did all my research on water and colors and adult strains, but I wasn’t sure what to expect in terms of fish color at different ages, so I didn’t question it at first when they arrived looking completely different. I will try the food in hope it works, but it looks like I may need to look for new reds if I want some in my thank. What a disappointment!
Is it the same for all Discus at that 4” size that they won’t change? Do I need to expect the other ones to stay as they are as well? There’s some sort of orange base pigeon leopard ( it was supposed to be a bold white/red ), a brown/turquoise with dark vertical bars ( it was supposed to be bold red with blue hints, no bars), and an all over pale yellow ( it was supposed to be bright yellow with a white face). Are they all going to stay as they are now? Oh boy... not what I wanted at all.

[seanyuki]

Have a look at Kenny's August shipment ......those are the actual discus that's he is selling with strains and colours.



http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?137167-PREVIEW-AUG-2020-Forrest-shipment-(Price-list-included)

[above design]

Hi Daphne,

If red is what you want I would look into getting some 3R'S from Kenny. They are a vibrant red and are golden based so they won't pepper.

Mark

[Iminit]

It tough to say. Discus do change color as they grow. Unfortunately you bought from a unreliable source. Pretty much a thief! Please leave a review on his site.
How big were they when you got them? Can you put up a pic of the whole tank. I’ve bought discus at 2” that did major color changes as they grew. Your next thing is mixing discus. Anything new should be quarantined for about 4 weeks before added to main tank. How big is your tank?

[danotaylor]

Dennis (Dennis Discus Fish) another SD site sponsor has some very nice deep red rafflesia and royal reds for sale right now, as well as some outrageously bright royal yellows.
You will need to be careful what you feed in terms of commercial pellets or flake as almost all contain carotine & astaxanthanin which will turn your yellow discus orange.
I hope your CC company works with you to get your refund Daphne! Did you happen to takes pics of the DOA's still in their bags?

[peewee1]

I don't believe these fish will change their coloration or pattern at all. They'll likely look the same or more faded as the fish gets bigger.

Willie

If anyone would know about color you would, Willie. That suggest, however, that any of the various color enhancing foods as somewhat akin to snake oil marketing.

TetraColor This natural color-enhancing food is a wonderful supplement to the diet of any tropical fish. Tropical Color Flakes promote beautiful color in all tropical fish and can be fed daily, alternating with Spirulina foods and treats. Enhanced with vitamin C and the patented health enhancing ProCare from TetraMin®.

BUG BITES™ are more than just insects. We’ve included other excellent protein sources like whole salmon, which is rich in Omega 3 and 6 for healthy skin, scales, fins and colors. Note: salmon. The foods that salmon eat are what generates the red flesh in the fish.

Vibra Bites® Another Hikari® world first, a blood-worm-like stick that offers outstanding nutrition and color enhancing capacity you have to see to believe. An outstanding addition to any daily feeding plan, this uniquely formulated diet will offer growth and immune system support too!

AguticSuppliers Now we are proud to offer a formulation designed to help bring out the Reds and Orange colors of your fish..Our "Bio-Pigment Plus" is a blend of Freeze Dried Australian Blackworms, baby Spinach, Spirulina, and Carophyl Pink. An excellent COLOR ENHANCER FOR REDS AND ORANGES in Fish. Not suited for light colored, albino or yellow fish as it may affect their color. (I purposely feed the bio pigment plus to an Albino millennium Gold discus which is a lemon drop yellow color to change its color to butterscotch. It is a very nice looking fish.

Omega one is one of the best brands of premium fish food with whole salmon in flakes as the top ingredient. Omega’s super color flakes are good color boosters and are nutritionally balanced with enhancements in the form of elevated beta carotenes derived from salmon skin.

Yellow and Red shades are the two colors most effectively influenced by color enhancing foods, which utilize the chromatophores. However, protein and foods such as seaweed can also work hand & hand with the chromatophores to produce brilliant blues, purples and greens in fish. For example, Flamingo feathers aren’t naturally pink, but get that way from accumulating carotenoids in the crustaceans and algae that the flamingoes eat. In zoos, flamingos are given feed with a carotenoid (canthaxanthin) in it to keep up their color. Carotenoids range from red, to orange to yellow. Most commercial color formulas contain astaxanthin, a red carotenoid that can bring out red color.

A series of experiments by researchers at Hawaii’s College of Tropical Agriculture and Human Resources showed that adding the bacteria, Haematococcus pluvialis, which contains astaxanthin and other carotenoids, to fish foodd worked to intensified the colors of red velvet swordtails, topaz cichlids, forktail rainbowfish, and, to a lesser degree, 24K mollies and kissing gouramis. Discus breeders often add paprika to their home-made discus food recipies. Paprika, is made from a ground, dried pepper, Capsicum annuum. Paprika is rich in a number of carotenoids, including beta carotene, capsanthin and capsorubin.

to Willie's point there is a challenge in replicating the natural color of fish, with some having faded shades.Only foods enhanced with carotenoids have performed effectively and consistently with respect to improving a fish's coloration.

[Willie]

... the yellow stripped face turn solid white and the spots in the body fade as they grow?...

My comments were meant to address the specific questions above, which is that the stripped face will not turn solid white and the spots on the body will not fade. There are specific examples cited by hobbyist where red pigments in the feed have altered the appearance of the fish. I hasten to point out, however, that many red pigments do not.

Astaxanthin, for example, is considered the premium pigment for adding red color. There is actually an entire family of astaxanthin pigments sold, which ranges from a warm yellow to a dark red. Having worked in aquaculture, I can say with certainty that the pigments turns the flesh of salmon red, but at all not the scales.

I've used both paprika and beta carotene mixed into beefheart and have seen no effect (although carotene turns the turds black - so we know it's digested and absorbed). Carotenoids will color fish, but usually only when other ingredients such as spirulina and spinach greens are included. I've always wondered whether carotenoids are limiting or other factors improve nutrition and facilitate carotenoid translocation into chromaphores on the epidermis.

In summary, there is a lot of snake oil in the fish food business. I'm not saying everything is suspect, but not everything works as promoted.

Willie

[peewee1]

I knew that Willie would know about this and have his usual qualified opinion. True that salmon flesh is red and except for the sockeye salmon the scales are silver. As salmon approach their spawning grounds they begin to absorb their scales. The carotenoid pigments in their flesh are transferred to the skin and eggs. ... The red skin makes them more visible and may signal their readiness to spawn. The pigments may also help the fish absorb oxygen from the water. Omega 3 rich diet in part influence colors in salmon. No telling if a discus would ever absorb their scales as do salmon yet perhaps that process does occur with discus to some extent as well. We do know that discus can instantly change their shade, they become darker when spawning, do they not?

[peewee1]

It will not harm to try feeding color enhancement foods. The fish have to eat something. This will be a good experiment and it may work out for you.

[Second Hand Pat]

My comments were meant to address the specific questions above, which is that the stripped face will not turn solid white and the spots on the body will not fade. There are specific examples cited by hobbyist where red pigments in the feed have altered the appearance of the fish. I hasten to point out, however, that many red pigments do not.

Astaxanthin, for example, is considered the premium pigment for adding red color. There is actually an entire family of astaxanthin pigments sold, which ranges from a warm yellow to a dark red. Having worked in aquaculture, I can say with certainty that the pigments turns the flesh of salmon red, but at all not the scales.

I've used both paprika and beta carotene mixed into beefheart and have seen no effect (although carotene turns the turds black - so we know it's digested and absorbed). Carotenoids will color fish, but usually only when other ingredients such as spirulina and spinach greens are included. I've always wondered whether carotenoids are limiting or other factors improve nutrition and facilitate carotenoid translocation into chromaphores on the epidermis.

In summary, there is a lot of snake oil in the fish food business. I'm not saying everything is suspect, but not everything works as promoted.

Willie

Hi Willie, do you anything (food or water) about promoting and maintaining the blues in wild heckels?
Pat

[danotaylor]

Here's a couple of pics of a royal yellow (purchased from Dennis of DDF) I used to own & feed soley on pure deer heart, no additives, and the the same fish after 6 months with it's new owner being feed a commercial flake food containing astaxanthin. Obviously the picture/water quality is different, but you can see clearly that the fish has turned from bright yellow to reddish- orange.

128769

128770

I was merely making the suggestion to bring awareness to Daphne that her yellow discus may change color as mine did with commercial foods :thumbsup:

[daphne]

It will not harm to try feeding color enhancement foods. The fish have to eat something. This will be a good experiment and it may work out for you.

Thank you for all the food tips. I purchased them at 3" to 3-1/2", they are about 1/2" bigger now. So I am feeding 4 times a day, I rotate the food type. This is what I am feeding.
128771

[daphne]

Dennis (Dennis Discus Fish) another SD site sponsor has some very nice deep red rafflesia and royal reds for sale right now, as well as some outrageously bright royal yellows.
You will need to be careful what you feed in terms of commercial pellets or flake as almost all contain carotine & astaxanthanin which will turn your yellow discus orange.
I hope your CC company works with you to get your refund Daphne! Did you happen to takes pics of the DOA's still in their bags?

Yes the CC i son it, it will take a while to resolve. Thank you

[daphne]

Here are the rest of them:
128772
128773
it was supposed to be this:
128774

then this one:
128775
it was supposed to be this:
128778

this one:
128779
was supposed to be this:
128780

Finally this little yellow Rafflesia I purchased from Myrtle Beach Discus, it came healthy and looking as expected (3"), it was eating withing 1 hour, very social with people and gentle in the tank.
128782

here are views or the rest of the set up - I should have whipped the exterior of the tank first :)
128783
128784

[peewee1]

Hi Willie, do you anything (food or water) about promoting and maintaining the blues in wild heckels?
Pat

Pat, Willie will have his own experience to draw from in addition to his expertise one study found that discus fed astaxanthin and Beta carotene (orange) intensified the fish's blue coloring. I had read that blue is a reflection ( iridescence) not actual blue color. To know might take some additional research. Consider spirulana is a blue green algea that next to Carotenoids also contains Fycocyanin proteins. An experiment opportunity is at hand here.

[danotaylor]

It can be very frustrating as you know Daphne when you buy fish from pics that are "examples" of what you will get vs. the actually fish you are getting. The ole bait & switch leaves a sour taste in ones mouth for sure. Nothing worse than being so excited to open your new box of fish and get heart broken immediately. Sadly the examples you were sent, even with the best of care, do not have the genetic potential to be any thing like those other pictures used to procure your business..

All of the SD sponsors have been vetted by site owner Al Sabetta, and provide updated pics/vids of the actual fish in each shipment. Most of them will then send you pics/vid of the exact fish during the selection process. They want you to be happy because their reputation here depends on customer satisfaction and word of mouth.

Again, I am so bummed for you that you didn't get what you believed you were paying for. If you have the financial resources, you could talk with your local fish store to see if they will take the ones you have and give you store credit to use for foods, conditioners etc, and start a fresh with an SD sponsor.

[Iminit]

Wow!! That’s terrible! Put the pics in the review. Wondering if you could talk to the better business bureau on bait and switch.
The first one looks like it came from a Wattley’s red turquoise (guessing here) and the red may develop across the rest of it body like the top. But never like what you thought you were buying. The second fish is stunted and shouldn’t have been sold. The rest are just average discus and could be bought at a local pet store. As a beginner these are good first fish. (Except that second one). Yellows are hard to keep yellow. A lot turn orange because of food.
How big is your tank? How often are you changing water? Even though there not the best they will still grow some a color up some more and need clean water. Again to me a great beginner group of discus. I just hope he didn’t overprice those fish. My fish are all beginner quality too and I’m very happy with them.

[daphne]

Wow!! That’s terrible! Put the pics in the review. Wondering if you could talk to the better business bureau on bait and switch.
The first one looks like it came from a Wattley’s red turquoise (guessing here) and the red may develop across the rest of it body like the top. But never like what you thought you were buying. The second fish is stunted and shouldn’t have been sold. The rest are just average discus and could be bought at a local pet store. As a beginner these are good first fish. (Except that second one). Yellows are hard to keep yellow. A lot turn orange because of food.
How big is your tank? How often are you changing water? Even though there not the best they will still grow some a color up some more and need clean water. Again to me a great beginner group of discus. I just hope he didn’t overprice those fish. My fish are all beginner quality too and I’m very happy with them.

Thank you for your response. The tank is 75. I have been changing 15 to 20% of the water every other day. I treat the water first by running it through my Burkey filter and add the seachem discus trace, discus buffer, prime and stability, and some fluval biological enhancer each time with the new water. I also keep my temperature at 88 for now.

[Willie]

Hi Willie, do you anything (food or water) about promoting and maintaining the blues in wild heckels?
Pat

Sorry, I don't know of any good way to do this. I know a seller (still selling today) who used to add testosterone to the water and sell his fish as Powder Blue Discus! :evilgrin:

Willie

[peewee1]

Thank you for all the food tips. I purchased them at 3" to 3-1/2", they are about 1/2" bigger now. So I am feeding 4 times a day, I rotate the food type. This is what I am feeding.
128771

Try mixing a portion of all 6 into a container and then feed your fish with the blend. I do this to offer variety but also because some fish do not like the same food as others do. This way everyone is sure to get something to eat.

[daphne]

I have been browsing the sponsors sites and decided to purchase a new assortment from Golden State Discus that fits what I am looking for. Thank you everyone for the helpful comments. :)

[seanyuki]

Do u have a spare quarantine tank....When introducing new stock after the quarantine period take one of your least favorite existing stock and add it to the QT tank...observe for the next 2 weeks...if there is no issues that develops in the QT, then you may try to mix the groups of fish.

[Willie]

I'd quarantine for a minimum of six weeks regardless of where the discus comes from. In your case, I'd be more concerned with your existing batch of fish.

[daphne]

Do u have a spare quarantine tank....When introducing new stock after the quarantine period take one of your least favorite existing stock and add it to the QT tank...observe for the next 2 weeks...if there is no issues that develops in the QT, then you may try to mix the groups of fish.

I do have an extra tank, but at the recommendation of a forum member I decided not to keep the old fishes and have been able to rehome them. The new fish will be on their own with a few tetras.

[seanyuki]

Best to sterilize all yr tanks and equipments b4 yr new arrivals.....May want to do fishless cycle too.

Fishless cycle


http://www.simplydiscus.com/library/biology/nitrogen_cycle/fishless_cycle.shtml

Sterilizing Aquariums and Equipments


http://www.simplydiscus.com/library/discus_husbandry/tanks_setup/sterilizing.shtml

[above design]

I do have an extra tank, but at the recommendation of a forum member I decided not to keep the old fishes and have been able to rehome them. The new fish will be on their own with a few tetras.

Good decision. It's difficult to mix discus from multiple sources, especially when one of them doesn't care about their customers and is known to be unethical. You most definitely would have had issues down the road.

Mark