I'm In Water Changing Heaven

[Dragonfly]

I can't begin to tell everyone how excited I am. As some of you (Ryan,) may remember, a week ago I was in the process of setting up a drip system in my basement. Last night my plumbing finally got finished, I flushed all the new lines and turned on the system.  :bounce: Oh Joy! It works. I know many of you have been doing this for a long time but for those of us that have just learned the Jedi way it is an enlightening experience. Everything pretty much went  off without a hitch, a tweak here and a tightened hose clamp there and I was up to snuff. I kept my eye on it for about an hour and finally went to bed and dreamt about the 25% water changes that were going to happen every 24 hours without me doing anything. I have to admit though, I am a bit discombobulated because I don't know what I am going to do with myself not having to change water everyday I actually had to plan my evening around doing water changes, now I don't. I will still do the 50% changes once a week but that is childs play compared to what I am doing now. The only other thing I have to continue doing is siphoning poo but that only takes about one minute a tank. Sorry for ranting everyone, but you are the only ones I have to tell that might appreciate it.

Alex        :elvis:

Alex,

I can't remember if you have chlorine in your water or not.  If you do the first thing you should do is add up the gph that you're dripping and figure out how many days it will take to wipe out your carbon filter.  Make a schedule for replacing the carbon & replace the sediment filter at the same time.

Dave

[Dragonfly]

Hi Dave,

I figured about every thirty days. I stuck a piece of tape on the filter last night to remind me of when to do it. I figure every thirty is very conservative at 60 gallons a day. Thanks,

Alex

Yeah, that's conservative.  I'd go 50 days and then change.  

Dave

Alex,

remember that dripping in 25% of the tanks volume daily is not like true 25% water change, keep an eye on the overall water quality for awile, you may not be able to get bye with a 50% once a week.

Jason

Alex, I hope it works out great for you. I sure wish I could switch over to a drip system but my water is loaded with chloramines so I guess I am stuck with the old fashion way of doing water changes....Now where is that bucket?...................Randy

Randy,

Skip the bucket.  If you didn't have chloramine you'd have to have some way to get your overflow water from the tanks to a drain.  And if you can do that for a drip system you can do that for normal water changes.  Just run a drain line to the lowest point in your house, put it in place as a fixed line.  Then just tie your siphon system into that line when you empty water from your tank.  Get a holding tank with a pump & heater(s) and you can do water changes almost as easily as a drip system.  By storing water in the holding tank you can heat & circulate it as well as remove the chloramine.  Overall, if you've got the room to hold the water, it's a lot better than doing it from the tap.

Dave

randy, don't forget that you can drip from a holding tank, where the water has been treated. frank endine does this, his holding tank is above the rest of his tanks, and he fills it, aerates and treats it, then turns the drip on. remember, this way, you can drip till it is empty, re-fill and treat, wait a couple of hours, then turn on the drip. very easy. all the time that you will have is the fill time, after that it is automatic.

if you are wondering where to put the holding tank, just look up. there must be some convenient place.

rick

Dave, I do that in most cases. I only use water that is ran through my RO/DI units I dont even touch my local water not even for my fry and growouts. Due to limited space I have to set my holding containers in several places inside my house. I don't have a large hatchery (fish room) like several of the posters on this board but I still have to deal with 50- 200 gallons of water changes a day depending on the number of fry and growouts I am raising at any point. I am able to remove about 75% of my water with a hose directly to a drain and most of my make up water I am able to add back to my tanks via a powerhead and hose from the holding bins to the tanks but the good old fashion bucket is still needed for several of my tanks.
What I need is a new house but have you ever tried to explain to a real estate agent that the most important aspect of the new house that you are looking for is not what school district the house is in or the number of bedrooms but does it have a ideal fish room? :D :D :D
* * * * * * * * *Randy

I know exactly what you're talking about. *My house is fine for my needs but my in-laws have an ideal house. *They live outside of the city, on the river in a large house. *They built it about 3 yrs ago and my Father-in-law has a 28ft motor home. *So he built a *"shed" on the side of the house that he can park the motor home in to do work on it. *This "shed" is actually attached to the house and accessible by the garage. *It's got a cement floor built on piles just like the house. *The walls are poured concrete in styrofoam forms. *The ceiling is about 16ft high and there's an office above the whole "shed". *I figure the whole area is about 40ft by 25ft with no inner walls, just an area where the stairs go up to the office. *Now how much more ideal could it be? *Oh yeah, there's a gas/wood burning fireplace in this room, it's huge and has enough heat to keep the floor heating cable system very warm. *The heat it gives off to the room could easily keep the temp in the 80º range. *I'm working on a deal to swap houses as the in-laws get old & decrepit, you know, to help them out...

Dave

Dave, thats funny :D :D
Dont we all need inlaws like that......
You know now that I think about it my inlaws have a large 2+ car detached garage with a large  finished upstairs room ..........HEE HEE.....got to go make a phone call talk to ya later ;) ;)  
Randy      

[Dragonfly]

Jason, are you trying to burst my bubble about changing more water. Dave, let me ask you something. I know you have the drip sytem going, besides that drip how often do you do additional water changes and what percentage? Thank you. Randy thanks, it sounds as if there are other options from what others are saying.

Alex

nope, no bubble-bursting here. Just telling you too keep an eye on it, because your not actually removing 25% and replacing 25%. Hey I've got drip set-ups too, likem' alot.

Jason

Alex,

I don't have my drip going right now.  I turned it off for a Flubendazole treatment and never turned it on again.  Now I just siphon and refill 2x a day about 20-25% each time.  When I was running it I'd siphon the tanks twice a day and take out about 10-20%.  If I were you I'd either put larger drippers on the tanks or do daily water changes of about 30%.  I was dripping 1gph into my 28g tanks and then just letting the drip catch up after I siphoned.  In my opinion there's no point only dripping 25%, you might as well go bigger.  If the water is dechlorinated & safe at 25% it'll be fine at higher %'s too.  But then again I feel that there is a diminishing return on the increased water changes...  For instance I think that a twice daily water change of 20% is optimal for my tanks and I doubt that they'd benefit greatly if I did 75% water changes instead of 20%.  But doing the 20% twice daily is a huge difference over doing it once a day 3x a week.  You get what I'm saying???  I find that a lot of posters suggest more & more water changes, done more frequently and in larger & larger percentages.  If your water is good you're not going to harm the fish this way but I don't think there's a great bang for your water $$$ by doing huge changes.

That last part may sound contradictory, in that I'm saying you should get bigger drippers but I'm also saying that larger water changes are not required.  I find that dripped water is a less effective way to improve the fishy environment than drain & fill water changes.  So in a 50g tank a 25g water change (remove 25g & refill) is more effective than dripping 25g throughout the day, or even 30g (to accomodate the new water that drips out).  A drip may be a great way to maintain a stable environment and is a natural way to slowly replace the water but at low %'s I don't think it does much.  I'm just rambling now, sorry... increase your dripping rate, that's my opinion.

Dave

[Dragonfly]

Dave I don't understand how you are able to do  water changes twice a day at that volume. I have a job and a wife neither one of which would be tolerant of that regimen. I am going to up my gph drips and just keep my eye on the water and see how it works out, also I don't have highly dense stocked tanks so we are not talking about inordinate amounts of waste, I will let you know how it works.

Alex

further to what dave is saying, i think a drip is really good for small fish, and smaller loads. but when you are doing heavier loads, like i like to do, the water change is much more effective towards clean water conditions, ime. i think that when you get into larger loads esp,  dripping gets more and more wasteful as you turn the drips up to maintain water quality. really the best thing to do is to try it for yourself, and see if the style that you use to grow fish, (ie feeding levels, stocking levels and water temp) agrees with dripping or waterchanges.

as far as larger changes being wasteful, what it really boils down to, is 'how dirty the water is that you are syphoning out?' if you are dumpng perfectly clean water, then imo, you are doing changes that are too big. if the water is stinky, then they are too small. you decide how clean the tanks are kept.

at the moment, i try and do a 50% change daily on a 90 gal with 35 fish up to 3". when i think the water is getting a little rank, i just let the water syphon further, re-fill with my saved water, and re-age more, and re-fill in a few hours. i always keep 2 sponge filters in the tank, so i don't worry too much about getting the water to the top to get my ac running. the one thing that i never let myself do, is cheap out on food to keep the water cleaner. they eat lots, often, and it's my job to keep the water clean- period. bottom line, clean water lots of food = nice big healthy fish.

rick

[Dragonfly]

Jason thanks, I will watch it.




Alex

It's all in how you set it up.  I have a wife & a 3 year old child as well.  I come down at 6:30am and do a 20% water change on my 9 tanks totalling 500g.  This takes about 25 mins.  Then at about 3:00pm my holding tank is full and warm & aerated so I do another change on all tanks but the 180g so that's another 20mins or so.  Sometimes at 11:00pm I'll pick one tank and do a 90% water change just for the fun of it if it seems like I've been feeding those fish a ton lately or if they have any issues like foggy eyes, lethargy etc.  I work at home so it's easy to do.  And 45 minutes for 9 tanks doesn't seem like a lot of time.  But it would definitely be harder to do if I had to hold down a real job.

Dave

[Dragonfly]

Thank you as well Rick

Alex

[Dragonfly]

Dave, I hope you didn't think I was implying anything. I wish I was as effective with my time as you obviously are. I guess I can only wait to see if this is a viable option for me. Thank you again for all the input.

Alex

rick,

I've heard you mention the smell aspect of changing water and I don't get it.  I've never smelled anything rank coming from my tanks.  And the 4 tanks on the central wet/dry are always crystal clear... after siphoning out the crap all there is is perfectly clean water.  The smaller tanks with the sponges can get cloudier and get larger changes but there is never an odor to them.  I firmly believe that the wet/dry filter keeps the tanks far cleaner and the water more inhabitable than a sponge.  The space required and the cost keeps me from using them on my 30g tanks.

And a drip is less advisable for small fish in my opinion.  Usually the smaller fish are the ones that are in crowded smaller tanks and they're also typically given more food.  I would be much more in favor of running a drip on my 180g tank which only has adult Discus.  I feed them less and there is about 15g per fish.

Dave

Alex,

I didn't think you were implying anything at all.  If anything I thought you were congratulating me on a job well done.   8)  ;D

Dave

[Dragonfly]

Dave, I was, could you detect the jealousy in my words, I am trying to become a stay at home mom I mean dad, but my wife is not convinced the Discus can be considered kids.

Alex   :elvis:

[brewmaster15]

I like the concept of stay at home Dad!!!  

my wife and I both work...shes a teacher ...very stable job.... I'm in biotech... very risky...I'd be the perfect  candidate to stay home, probelm is I'd have to give up most of my tanks, sell a car, andget a night job to do it and still live in the CT (it aint cheap here) ---stil may happen someday! ;)

 As for drip system, I love the idea, and may put one in. The fish room is still undere construction.  Right Now I am up at 4-5:00am for water changes the old fashion  way, before work. I  change  30 %  daily of  about 1000 gals in 18 tanks!!!! Thank god I  have  a well with good  water and lots of it!!!

 Evening are for my family time, and the fish just get a feeding.
 Take care,  
 -al

[Dragonfly]

Al,

We will have to start a coalition because it is going to take a lot of coaxing on my part. You have confirmed my suspicion of your insanity when I saw the number of gallons you have. I have half that and I couldn't wait to set it up. Also, FYI, I know it has been only two days but thus far my water is clearer than it has ever been. I suck poo which takes two seconds and that is it. Also, Dave I took your advice and up'd the gallon drippage so everyone is close to 40% a day. We will see, in a week or so if the water quality seems to be maintaining and I don't have a lot of nasties growing in my tank , I will be pretty happy.

Alex  :elvis:

dave, to clarify. my room doesn't smell because there is a fish tank there. but when i lean over the tank with my nose just above water level and sniff, i can tell if a water change is needed, and how big. this is THE number one test for when to do a water change. i have heard that others can smell ammonia in their water, but i'm not too sure on that one.

rick

[Carol_Roberts]

I can't smell ammonia, but I can smell if the tank is dirty ( too much food disolved in the water)  :o

Carol :heart1:

[skoda]

hi dragonfly,

free to take some photos of your set up and post here?

we would definitely glad to see that :bounce:

[Liz_Streithorst]

Grrrrr...Y'all hush about your fancy water change systems. When I just had a 100 gallon I had a drip system. I LOVED it. Since then, I have remodeled and havent been able to make myself crawl around in the dirt under the house and do the plumbing. (many Southern houses are built on blocks rather than on a slab) I now have 8 tanks and am doing manual changes. I need to just DO IT. Well, not this weekend...have to clip goats for the show. Not next weekend...have to show the goats. I'll have another excuse the weekend after, I'm sure. Wish I could find a plumber who would work for goats.

Liz

[Dennis_Hardenburge]

I have had a drip system for a little over six years, and there is one problem that I had that I have never heard mentioned, so here goes.
After installing my drip system I loved it, my fish will have successful spawns on a drip with my tap water but all fry were deformed, and this was with several pairs that had been producing good fry, this drove me crazy for some time, untill with help from the University we came to the conclusion that they were getting the bends from the water off gaseing in the tank.
I have since with eggs, wigglers, and small fry pumped the water to the drippers from a barrel of aged water and this works very well.
I have had no problems running the drip from the tap through a carbon filter in to the tanks with larger fry ( I won't untill they are about and inch in size ) and at times have dripped as much as ten gallons and hour in to a 130 loaded with fry, with no problems.
Dennis

[Liz_Streithorst]

WOW Dennis, that is a good thing to know. Must have been a b**ch to figure out. BTW, how's your all time favorite fish and her husband doing?

Liz

[Dennis_Hardenburge]

Liz
Yes for months the problem drove me crazy. I just couldn't believe there could have been a problem with the water when they were spawning and fry hatching and attaching good.
I have since found out that an angel fish breeder had the same type of problem because a pump in the central filter was bad and cavitateing and putting air in the water.
Useing water with out off gaseing on older fry or adults doesn't seem to be a problem, but during the first few weeks of development it can be a major problem.
Which favorite fish, I have several.
Aslo came to the conclusion that I have a gay male and damned if I could get the other male to lay eggs, oh well only wasted three months with two males in the tank.
Dennis
Dennis

[Dennis_Hardenburge]

Liz
I think the one you are thinking about well she turned out to be a he and now has a girl friend preparing for a family.
Dennis

[Liz_Streithorst]

Dennis, it was the wild that was in with the Red Diamond male. She/he kept making dry runs on the cone last time I heard.

What ever she/he/it is, I'd still like my place on the fry list!

Sounds like my luck with men!

Liz

[Dennis_Hardenburge]

Liz
Red diamond lost his brains, he is back in a community envirement and he can play with what ever sex he wants.
The wild (male) now has a wild female, also just today pulled another pair of wilds out of the community tank and gave them thier own tank, so hoping for good things soon.
Dennis