Increasing GH/KH???

[Preeda_Lim]

Hi everyone,

My GH/KH is around 3.0, does it gonna be any effect to my babies. Steelhead told me once that my hardness is too low. Any suggestions for easy way to increase?? ;D

Thanks
Preeda

[Carol_Roberts]

I've heard of people putting crushed coral/shells in a bag inside their filter to stabliize pH.

carol :heart1:

[Ardan]

Hi Preeda,
You can experiment in a bucket, add these minerals and test GH until it is around 6 or 7.
(I think credit goes to Steve Warner)

3 parts calcium Sulfate
*1 part calcium chloride
1 part magnesium sufate (epsom salt)

Here is a thread that has info on where to get those minerals if you can't find them.

http://forum.simplydiscus.com//index.php?board=5;action=display;threadid=1196;sta rt=0
hth
Ardan :sunshine:

[Preeda_Lim]

Thanks Carol, Arden

I would try to find these minerals, may be i can ask my wife cos she's a chemical engineer. Any further result i'll keep it's posted. ;)

Preeda

[Preeda_Lim]

Hi Ardan,

Can i use Calcium Carbonate(increse both GH/KH) instead of Calcium chloride and calsium sulfate ? Does it cause higher in PH I suppose??

Thank you  ;D
Preeda

[Steve_Warner]

Hi all,
Preeda, yes you can use Calcium Carbonate to increase BOTH GH & KH (actually called alkalinity, falsely called KH). The Calcium ions will add to your general hardness(GH) and the carbonates will add alkalinity(buffering) to the water. 1/2(one half) teaspoon Calcium Carbonate per 50 Liters(13.2 gallons) of water should raise BOTH GH and alkalinity 1 degree. Calcium Chloride will only increase GH if I recall correctly.  You should also use the Epsom salts(Magnesium Sulfate), 'cause the Mag is good for the fish, too!

                                                             Steve

[Preeda_Lim]

Thanks a lot steve, very useful information  :fried: :fried:

Preeda

[Liz_Streithorst]

This thread has been very helpful to me but I ned a little more help.  My gh is so low it is not meaurable with my Tetra kit.  I used a whole 4 oz bottle of Electro-right to bring it up to 1 degree,  6 oz of Tank hard brought it up to 3.  KH is also 3.  Ph is 7.  Neither of these products has any affect on the ph.  If I were to use calcium carbonate would it raise the ph?   I don't think I want it any higher than it is.  I'm getting my first discus Saturday from Cary and want the best for my new babies.

Also, I am going to put together a drip system for water changing.  While my little guys are still growing I'll have to treat the water to get the hardness up and drip it in from a plastic container.  But I understand that when they are grown, the soft water is ok and that I should be able to use water straight from the tap as long as I run it through a carbon filter.  Is this correct?

Thanks,   Liz

[Ardan]

Hi Liz,
Welcome!!
Calcium Carbonate should not raise ph, only the buffering of the water.
Experiment in a bucket to be sure. Discus are ok in ph up to around 8, so even if you get some change, you will probably be ok. Also aging the water with aeration may change your ph a bit, experiment.. take tap water , aerate for 4 hrs, test, if it changes then its best to age your water for wc's with aeration and temp kept same as aquarium, before using for wc.
These minerals are cheaper than what you are using.
The discus for growing need calcium and magnesium. Calcium will be provided from the calcium products listed and magnesium from the epsom salt.
If they are grown and you want to set up the drip system, a carbon prefilter will be ok Only if you have "chlorine " in the water. If it is "chloramines" in the water you will have to monitor closely the ammonia and nitrites in the aquarium as the carbon will only take ou the chlorine part and leave the ammonia part of the chloramine.
hth
Ardan :sunshine:

[Liz_Streithorst]

Thank you Arden.  I will go looking for some calcium carbonate.  Steve gave directions as to how much to use.  How much epsom salt would you suggest?    Liz

[Preeda_Lim]

Hi Liz,

I'm also a new one here. ;D. Actually I think if GH/Alkality is not too low(lower than 3.0). It should be ok. for raising babies. Anyway all the best we would like to provide to our babies :thumbsup:. Then I might go to buy these Chemical substances this Sat. :fried: :fried:

Welcome to this forum
Preeda

[Ardan]

Hi Liz,
IMO you need about 1/4 as much magnesium (epsom salt)as the calcium. This is based on what I have seen others use, I have not seen direct scientific research on it. I am fortunate that I don't have to mix in minerals.

hth
Ardan :sunshine:

[Steve_Warner]

Hi all,
Liz, adding Calcium Carbonate WILL raise your pH(as will baking soda), dependent on how much you add. The Carbonates will combine and neutralize the Hydronium(acid) ions, thus sending the pH upwards as the acids lessen.  I do not have a formula for pH rises per given amount, though. HTH


                                                        Steve

[Ardan]

Hi Liz,
Steve is right. Carbonates "do" bond with the hydrogen i0n and can raise the ph. It depends on how much buffering there is to start and how much calcium carbonate you are adding, and the original ph. You will have to experiment in a bucket.
Ardan  :sunshine:

[angel12]

so what happens in a scenario where you add the above formulas and your ph goes above the Ph level of your tank how do you reduce the ph to bring it back in line with the Tank conditions .... ;D

[Ardan]

Hi,
You can slowly bring up the tank ph, discus can live well in ph 8.

Do you use CO2 for the plants? If so that will bring the ph down too.

Or you can experiment with some of the acids in a bucket. Then you would adjust the ph in the aging barrel each time (day before use)


The less variables , the better though.
hth

[Steve_Warner]

Hi all,
Angel12, how much of a pH diff are we talkin and what amounts are we dealin with?

Steve

[angel12]

Steve Thank for the reply

However it looks like ive finaly cracked it Yipeeeee!!!!

as stated my water Kh is 1 Gh is 2 and no doubt ill bore u again but has high levels of Po4 no good for me plants ...

So I was lead to believe that Kent was one of the best Products on the market IMOH WRONG afer using Kent Ro write and Ph stable no matter what happend the Ro water would not increase by any measurable effect... I eventualy besides posting on here emailed Kent Tech support

Only to find they are less knowledgeable than most of the people on here
:o :o

So not wanting to make a cocktail soup of my water I thought about calcium carbonate etc even whent to the Pharmacy to ask the Pharmacist about getting hold of this Guess what it is not available in any measureable amount Here in the North West of England .. sure u can buy tablets and crush them but if u want it in bulk so its more cost effiecent then forget it ...

so rapildy running out of ideas and getting a bit desperate I talked to another LFS who specialise in Marine fish but also have freshwater ... (should of gone to him first if only) anyway he suggested a product made by a company called Aquamedic they have a prod for KH and GH in tablet form .... 200 tablets for approx $14 now he said that if u add one tablet per 5 Gallons it will Exaclty raise the GH or Kh by 1 Deg depending on if its KH or GH tablets u use .. he even said the company stake there name on it !! not only that but they will not affect the ph !

so scepticaly I went and got these tablets and added them according to the Manu instructions and then tested ..... closing my eyes :-\ after each drop of reagent I eventualy came to the 6 mark the level I required and well hey presto it worked !!! i tested again and yep same reading ... then I thought hold on here what about the PH so shutting my eyes again I tested that and well Blow me over with a feather the ph is 7.0 bang in line with my tank conditions so for the first time in over a month Ive actualy got some re constituted RO water of KH 3 Gh 6 Ph 7.0 same as my tank

SO so far so good im going to keep monitoring this product but if it contiunes to do the bussiness im going to be One Happy Bunny

http://opkikkertje.nl/smilies/blij/blij004.gif

[richgrenfell]

glad you finally got it worked out!
I usually use the crushed coral method, bit it certainly is alot harder to be exact that those tablets you are talking about!

Rich

[angel12]

I have left some crushed coral from my old substrate in the tank mainly to help with the nitrifying bacteria on it and also to prop up the Kh It looks like ive got just the right amount of if in my tank as the co2 is injected and the ph is remaining stable so far iv adjusted the flow rate of the Co2 to compesate for the fall in Kh from 9 the original to 3 now As i said im going to keep monitoring it over the next 4-5 days or so to see if there are any changes ...........in this time I will have completed 3 water changes of 20% each so any shock or change in the water perams should be picked up by the test kits and me)

Thanks to everyone who has posted on my ramblings its just nice to know there are people out there who care enough to try to help
;D

[richgrenfell]

be sure and post your results. I am in the middle of clearing out some room for discus. I will be using RO and it sounds like you can be exact with these tabs if you dose as directed. Beleive it or not, I have usually (except for one place I lived where the tap water was perfect!) used straight RO to spawn and hatch discus. Alot of people don't like the idea, but it worked for me! I would however like to try and be a bit less of a risk taker this time around.

Rich

[lesley]

Hi guys,

has anyone used dolomite lime for the calcium carbonate component of raising the kH/gH. If one did so, would the epsom salts then raise magnesium levels too high?

I am wondering if the dolomite might raise the pH a little less. Based on my experience of a heap of dolomite lying on the ground which grew small but edible potatoes -(couldn't get rid of them, they loved the dolomite and I gave up using that heap, 'cause I had spuds everywhere) i am thinking it may be a little less "alkaline".

[Nightowl]

Hello all, one of my favirite topics...GH & KH!!! We must remember that these are two separate measurements. I'm not sure that coral will raise the KH to any great degree, but it will certainly raise the GH, which is a measurement of calcium and magnesium in the water. I have an African cichlid tank w/ coral... the KH is 4 degrees(71 ppm) the GH is 27 degrees, or 473 ppm!! So it is not safe to assume that if your raising GH that you are raising the KH equally. The KH , carbonates and bicarbonates in your water, are important in maintaining a PH level. When the KH drops to 3 degrees, a ph CRASH is quite possible, where the ph can drop to 4.5 or less resulting in acid burn to your fish. Of course daily water changes help prevent this but if your ingoing water is soft it can still happen. Then if water cahnges are missed for a day or two the PH can drop rapidly. The key is keeping the KH at 4 degrees or more, or 70 PPM.
If anyone is having a sliding KH, low PH problem, there is a product by HAGEN called"Ph stabilizer/ KH booster". This is a liquid used at the rate of 1 cap/ten gallons. I just added some to a 38 g. tank yesterday after a w/c because the ph was really low. It claims to provide 15 ppm KH per dose... so I added half a dose. It did not raise the ph much if at all which is interesting. It is CaCO3, which is Calcium Carbonate I believe. I couldn't find my GH/KH test kit :P so I haven't tested the levels but will ASAP.
Those tablets sound interesting too.....
Later, J.T. :vanish: