Air driven sponges poll [Archive]

07-03-2002, 12:09 PM

Hey Brewmaster,

Air coming from inside a sponge is so inefficient. It is an added expense, but each of my tanks have hundreds of $$ worth of discus, so I want some movement and no dead spots. Got my wheels, ceramics and pre on one side of the tank...the other has the canister w/ceramics and double pre. Horsepower is good :bounce:
:crazy:Lee

Rich_Long

07-03-2002, 12:11 PM

Dude, I use many of the above! I can only pick one?

brewmaster15

07-03-2002, 12:21 PM

Hi Lee,
* *First off... welcome to the *board!!!! *;D,

* second off ... you missed a whole slew of past *posts I have made inthe past. Besides *you , I am one of the *few proponents *here for canister filters-- though *my favs are magnum 350s

*That said I also have thousands of $$$$ * in *fish and many tanks. But I chose *for ease of use, cost, and reliability *to trust most of those dollars * to * hydrosponges and *aquaclears! :) likewise I would never *reccommend *a *canister *to a new discus hobbyist * as there is far *too much of *a chance that * the necessary maintenence *would be lax. *For many new *hobbyists, just frequent water changes *are a new regime *to learn.

take care,
al ;D ;D ;D

Tony

07-03-2002, 03:40 PM

Do you run air driven sponge filter only for the discus tank?
How many sponge filter do you need to run in a 50g?

Actually, I run canister and also sponge filter. I am a bit unsure whether I really need the canister.... I tends to be a bit conservative, always try to run 2-3 diff. filter on the same tank. (just in case, 1 fail or I need to start a sick tank straight away...)

e.g. sponge + canister
      ugf + canister
I would like to know from your exp. whether it is unnecessary or it is reasonable general practise.

07-03-2002, 04:50 PM

After deciding to go with bare-bottom tanks, I was just going to use air-driven sponge filters....
I just couldn't trust the sponge filter alone....I've also got an AC500 on my 55, and AC300's on my 25's....they've all got the pre-filters on them so that they don't suck up half the food before the fish can eat it...

Carol_Roberts

07-03-2002, 06:28 PM

David, your set up sounds good to me.

OK Al, talk about a biased poll  ::) LOL.
No hang on the back filters?
How about none of of the above?
So, when did you stop beating your wife Mr. Sabetta?

I think one of us Aqua Clear fans needs to start our own poll  ;)
Carol :heart1:

07-03-2002, 06:56 PM

Hey Al.....

I have to side with Carol here..... we need another poll.

On all of my tanks I have some type of HOB and most of those also have sponges..... I even have a couple 404 canisters......

Beth

brewmaster15

07-03-2002, 07:56 PM

Okay people before you shoot me over this.  There are only so many poll options.  ;D

The real point here was to see how many used hydrosponges , because if you do , its being used  as  a biological filter  in your tank and it doesn't matter what else  you are using,  hence  the poll question...

What kind of biofilters are in your tanks and the poll subject- Air driven sponges poll

last  justification for the poll categories,
take a look at option....

"powerhead driven sponge media "'  If you look at the  motor that drives  your aquaclears, its really  just a powerhead that sits in plastic box  outside the tank, instead  of inside the tank.  Interms of this poll it functions no different  than a regular power head attached to a hydro sponge-- neither are air  driven sponges, they are driven by a motor and  impeller.  

Boy oh boy, whats that saying.. Can't please everyone... Hmmm, naw not this crowd! :) ;D

-al

BlueTurquoise

07-03-2002, 09:47 PM

Hi guys,

I just have to add in my input/question (i have only asked questions in my posts, can ya tell i am a total newbie?  ;D)

Anyway sponge and Aquaclear is all dandy for 50gal, 30gal 20gal setups etc but what about 180gal? how many sponge filters, canisters, aquaclears would one need to spend for that? the big $$$ spent on the fish will be way cheaper than all the equipment put together in that case wouldn't it?

It's just that noone has mentioned wet/dry combos as a filter at all in the post and i am getting worried since i was planning a wet/dry for my 180gal show tank... Am i worried for nothing?  :-/  ???  :-/

My calculations currently exceed AU$1800 for the equipment, excluding qt tank setup and support equipment (nets, buckets, test kits, hoses, you name it) and only AU$350 for 8 juvenile fish... logically to me it seems my equipment is way way way more expensice than the fish... so if sponge filters are the best, do i get like the world's largest sponge connected to a wind tunnel generator for an air pump or do i get 10 small sponge filters, 2 aquaclear 500 and a mag canister filter all hooked up to the one tank? hmm.... ???

Carol_Roberts

07-04-2002, 12:03 AM

OK Al, you talked me into it. I just chose "powerhead driven sponge media" to represent my aqua clears.  I don't use sponge filters, I don't like the noise. The Aqua Clears are soothing to listen to . . .
Carol :heart1:

jim_shedden

07-04-2002, 06:03 AM

I am running a 404 fluval on a 90 and it works great. On the smaller tanks I am running ac300's and a sponge and they work great. I took Aprils advice a couple of months ago and decided to put in a couple extra sponges into the ac so that I could get a bacterial colony going and then switch the foam and start a new tank and it is working out well.

Jim

April

07-04-2002, 06:04 AM

geez.....nowi chose wrong. i should've went with the power heads. although....lately i am running a hydro or two in every tank. and not bad. but also a aq. now i have lots of options to move sponges around. with three sponges in each aq and the hydros.  ;D
blue turquoiuse ,.not sure on the wetdry but yes ive heard people swear by them. but you can also get them made ....or diy projects far cheaper. think a few on this board have links to show you how. far cheaper.
anyone help him out?

Willie

07-04-2002, 06:42 AM

I love sponges and use lots and lots of them in every tank.  Like April, the flexibility of moving sponges around is just great.  

In fact, I keep multiple sets of sponges in my growout tanks as reserves.  Amazingly, these tanks produce far less debris despite much higher fish populations.  Makes me wonder if loading up on extra biological filtration capacity (far in excess of manufacturers' recommendation) merits further consideration...

Willie

Tony

07-04-2002, 02:48 PM

Q: if you just run say a 50g bare bottom tank with sponge filter (air driven). WITHOUT and canister, aquaclear ... kind of power filter than churn a lot of water.
How many juvenile (less than 4") discus would you keep in it? and what should be the water change regime?

Q: is it possible to run a grow out tank with NO/little mechanical filter but just air driven sponge filter as biological filter?

Thanks in advance.

07-04-2002, 09:17 PM

is it possible to run a grow out tank with NO/little mechanical filter but just air driven sponge filter as biological filter?

YES.  for instance Hydrosponge IV filter x 2 would be more than enough biofiltration.  Sponge filters are the overall best single filters because: 1.cheap 2.indestructible 3.no real parts to replace over time 4.bio-colony won't die with power outages (like with cannisters, FSB, power filters even - & won't flood your tank with toxic products of nitrifiers' deaths with the return of power) 5.easy to clean 6.adequate mechanical filtration if enough air used.  The best argument for adding on a powerfilter is to boost the mechanical filtration, thus keeping your tank bottoms cleaner for more rapid siphoning; also it adds better water movement.

Having said that, I use sponge filter only set-up with only my hospital tank.  I add-on a power-filter to each tank for mechanical filtration.

I do use Eheim cannister filters also (2222, 2224, 2228 x 2) but not on discus tanks (too many water changes to need such biofiltration.)

bcblair

07-05-2002, 12:46 AM

That has these filters. Preferrably one that has good explanations of each type.

Thanks.

Joe_in_PA

07-05-2002, 05:43 AM

You power filter folks must not have a large number of tanks, or have better electrical wiring than I do ;D

With 25 tanks, there just ain't enough outlets to plug in that many power filters and heaters.  Even if there were enough outlets, they would need to be on a 30a circuit, or a couple 20a circuits, to prevent constantly blowing a fuse.  At least for me, there really is no alternative to air driven sponges.  Just one outlet to plug the air pump into and plenty of biological, and yes even mechanical filtration, to go around.   :fish:

That being said, the show tank in the living room has a pair of fluval 304 canister filters on it.;)  Wife wouldn't tolerate a bare bottom/sponge filter tank upstairs. :flame:

blackghost

08-30-2003, 10:24 AM

Hell i know it's wrong but right now i use eheim pro 2 thats all.
I cant get hydro spong in india.
but i think its fairly easy to make provided you get the right sponge.
It's on my to do list

RyanH

08-30-2003, 01:12 PM

I have a friend that makes his own sponge filters. They are enormous with a surface area that is unimaginably huge! They are actually not that difficult to make. He buys large cubes of foam, hollows out the middle, and drops in an airstone. His cost is about the same as what we pay for hydrosponges except his are two feet tall and a foot wide! I will try to post some pics sometime because this guys hatchery is unbelievable.

lesley

08-30-2003, 05:52 PM

Hi all,

any time I mention "hydro-sponges here in Melbourne all I get is blank looks. I take it that a hydro-sponge is just a sponge with an airstone in the middle??

To go back to Chong's post, what would you guys suggest be used with a tank 100 gallons or over?

I find the mechanical sponges that are currently covering the intakes of my current filters become very clogged in the middle. Does merely squeezing out an air powered sponge filter stop this type of clogging? Do these "hydro-sponges" actually filter water, i.e. if the water is a bit "murky" as mine can occasionally be after rain, will they clear the water?

Is anybody solely using this type of filter with a planted tank? And can they be used with a co2 unit?

I have one air driven sponge filter in one of my tanks - the noise was driving us crazy until I bought a banana lily and managed to keep the leaves over the top of the outlet. Are all air driven sponges noisy?

Sorry to be emulating War and Peace, but I would be very interested in your replies.

Thanks, Lesley

Nightowl

08-30-2003, 11:05 PM

Hydrosponges are very versatile. I use a #3 in 20 g tanks, #4 in 30-40 g. tanks. I had 2 # 3's running a 30 breeder(36x18x12) for 3 months w/ 23 3 cm. discus and daily water changes of 35%. When the fish reached 5-6 cm. I added a Millennium 2000 hang-on. For a pair of discus in a 20g. I use one Hydro. #3...it works fine.I also use the Tetra Brilliant filters in some tanks(no longer made).
Using an airstone in a Hydrosponge is optional. The main thing is if you don't use the plastic 1" tube on the filter, you should add a small piece of airline tubing(about 1.5") inside the filter. A steady stream of bubbles is all you need ..it doesn't have to blast, but you can if you want to.
I find that when used w/ 1" rigid plastic tube you get better mech. filtration that can help clear water fairly well. But you would have to clean sponge more often; cleaning in some water from tank is best.
At work after the blackout when many fluvals expired there was a 150 g tank w/ about 20 sm. oscars in it.We had to remove the fluval(AGAIN), and the tank was running on its #5 Hydrosponge & it didn't seem to matter that the tank lost its fluval.
I too am a proponent of canisters... didn't have any problems from the blackout( power was out 7 hrs.). I do not like the fluval -04 filters but I do have 2 in use. If I had to choose I would go all sponges...I use a TOM 60 air pump, 3.2 watts & it runs 4-6 sponge filters easily!!!
Hi Lesley... need Hydro Sponges?? Send me your address..... later, J.T.

korbi_doc

08-30-2003, 11:22 PM

:bounce2: :bounce2: I have lotsa air driven sponges with the linear air pump system in all the tanks. My 125g also has the Lifeguard module system with a micron filter. The 90g has a wet/dry (cuz had it with my SW tanks)as well. The 37g QT has an AC + airstones & sponges. & yes, I think the sponges are noisy, probably cuz I have so much air, but I do like them so the fishes have to live with the noise.
If I set up another large tank I would vote for the wet/dry in addition to sev'l air-driven sponges. I keep extras in for emergencies. I do like the wet/dry filter system, just not as easy to do w/cs with it. I also use the HOT Magnum in the baby tank + 3 sponge filters & have an extra for added cleaning along with the Vortex diatom. lol, Dottie ;D ;D

Mr. Limpet

08-31-2003, 12:50 AM

Dudes, check out the sponge filters at Angelswest.com and Angelfish.com.
I'm guessing on the second website. 4x4x4 sponges with a lift tube, right around $5. I have used these for years and finally standardised on them. A lotta bang for your buck.
It is ammazing seeing how well these filters work in grow out tanks, the only problem is they can fool you and when they fill up, they are full. A good maintence schedule eliminates this feature/problem. Paul.

blackghost

08-31-2003, 04:42 AM

This might be a stupid question but I would like to know, how does flow rate of water through sponge affects the filtration and bacteria.
Also what difference it will make if one sponge filter is operated directly by air (not with air stone) and other but same type is operated with air stone .
I think there will be substantial difference in flow rate.
Also a right combination of flow rate and length of lift tube will give good filtration and lots of bacteria.
A person with good knowledge of fluid mechanics can answer this question more precisely.

Willie

08-31-2003, 08:58 PM

I'm not a hydrologist but I can answer the question from a microbiological perspective.

Bacteria can cycle ammonia to nitrite, then to nitrate. These two reactions occur in sequence, one molecule at a time. The first conversion, ammonia to nitrite, is slow. Therefore, it is the rate limiting step in the process. The enzyme nitrite reductase binds to one ammonia molecule and converts it to one nitrite ion. (Nitrate reductase then converts nitrite to nitrate.) Sponges are effective because they provide a huge surface area for bacteria to colonize. The major limitation to bacterial growth in sponge filters is the amount of substrate (ammonia) and oxygen.

In general, the rate of flow through the sponge far exceeds the rate of ammonia conversion. I've seen sponge filters work exceedingly well in large tanks where there's a very weak air flow going through. Speeding up the flow will not speed up biological activity.

Compared to an air pump, however, a powerhead driven sponge filter has the advantage of significant agitation. Churning increases the amount of dissolved oxygen and can increase the rate of bacterial growth. If you're adding a lot of fish quickly, higher levels of dissolved oxygen will enable the bacteria to grow more rapidly to respond to higher ammonia production. In a tank with a stable fish population, there would be no difference between rapid or slow air flow through the sponge filter.

From a more practical perspective, I find that lower tech gadgets are more reliable. I have a combination of power filters and sponge filters in tanks ranging from 20 - 75 gallons. As the power filters die, they're replaced with multiple sponge filters.

Hope that helps, Willie

blackghost

09-01-2003, 12:26 AM

so there is no as such important relation between flow rate and bacterial growth.
But i remember reading on the board that it makes diffrence with the lift tube and without it, so what do you think.
What really affects the amount of bacteria?

Nightowl

09-01-2003, 01:00 AM

I find hydro sponges work well w/ a moderate flow of air, with or without uplift tube. As far as amount of good bacteria..??? They seem to have no problem performing their "nitrifying" duties provided they are not overcleaned, or undercleaned to the point where they become full (they can hold a lot of dirt). later, J.T.