Breeding Tank Size

[RichieE]

Ive had my Discus for 8 months and Ive had two pair off and lay eggs. First let me say to anyone who is waiting for their Discus to lay for the first time to watch closley. I knew I had a pair and they may have deposited eggs several times before. On the time I saw them another fish(top dog in the Pecking order) ate all the eggs In two minutes. They both tryed to keep him away but were no match. Anyway my question is What size breeding tanks do you use and why? Ive seen and read most people are useing between 20Gal and 30 Gal. Im ready to purchase one for this pair and its all the same to me. Is bigger better?

[joanr]

Hi and congrats on your pair!

IMHO if you have the room go for the 29gal. I thinks it's unfair to put two large fish in a 20gal. I use 20gal for the holding tank for the 29g breeder tank. Both tanks are on a 30g wrought iron stand that has a shelf on the bottom for the smaller holding tank.

Often people will use a tank divider if the tank is a 50g or 55g and house two pair side by side. If I had my way my pair would be back in the 49gal bowfront but then there is the problem with too large and the free swimmers have a harder time connecting, or so I've been told.

JR

[TOMMY]

29 or 30 for that same reason. Not too big or they fry could "get lost". Not too small, you may want to be able to grow them out a little in that same space.

Just my opinion, Tom

[RichieE]

Thanks for the responces. Being able to leave the babies in with the parents longer in a 30 is something I didnt consider. If the parents are doing a good job I would leave them in as long as I could. Im glad I asked. I love this place.

RichieE, I use 20 gal tanks for all of my breeders but have been thinking about moving some of the larger pairs into at least a 29. I know that several people use tanks as big as a 50 gal for there breeders but that is just to much water to be changing everyday for me :) :) :)
HTH Randy

[jeep]

I would try to find a 29h for breeders. I was told a long time ago that they like the taller tanks. They also would prefer to be at a higher level in the room, if possible. Discus are shy and like looking down on people.

[RichieE]

Well she layed again last night in the show tank. I bought a 20 Gall but didnt get the temperature stableized in time to move them. They were able to keep the other fish away for a few hours this time but..... Caviar again! I moved them this morning.


Randy, I went with the 20 gall for two reasons. First I figured it would be easier for free swimmers to find mom and pop. Second a breeder in my area has been useing 20s for over 30 years. If the 20 doesnt work out Ill set up a 30 for them and use the 20 for grow out. Im thinking of investing heavily in the local water company.


Jeep, That same breeder keeps his tanks up high also. The bottoms are at my eye level and im six feet tall.

RichieE, Good choice. I use 20H for all my breeders. I like them because I change lots of water. And by using 20 gal tanks it saves me lots of water in the long run. I Normally drop the water level down to around 10 gals(or just above the filter level) the first day or two of the fry going free swimming or until the fry find the parents good and them fill the tank back up.
Yes you will find that the discus pairs will be less spooked if the tanks are kept higher up. I dont have the room to keep all of my breeder tanks as high as I would like. I have my breeder tanks double stacked. The bottom of the bottom row of tanks are about 30 inches off of the floor and the bottom of the upper tanks are about 5 feet off the floor. The
discus in the upper tanks seem to be less spooked when people are around...........Randy

RichieE,
After seeing a spawning pair in a 65 gallon tank today, IMO that is the best way to go.
1. Gives them more room
2. They fry can stay in there for a long time.
3. And it always easier to remove the pair than a 100 fry.
4. And water channges are just as easy.

HTH
Miles

I use mostly 20H's. My reasoning for this? If it good enough for Jack Wattley, then it is good enough for me. I had done alot of reading about discus care and breeding over the years and most breeders seemed to use tanks in the range of 20-25 gal. I was going to use 29's but when a LFS sold out, I bought 6 - 20H's instead. They work just fine.

Mat

[RichieE]

Well she layed eggs again and they turned white over night. Does that mean the male didnt do his job? He may not be mature enough yet. This is the third time ive seen eggs and it seems shes on a six day cycle. Im thinking about leaving everything the same for 1-2 more times before I start tinkering with water parameters. (PH 7.0 / cond. 150 / temp 82) Another observation of tank height: This tank is on a standard wrout Iron stand, not very high. When I come near the tank they hide from me. Now these fish know me. I dont baby my Discus at all. When they were in the show tank they were in the highest traiffic area in the house and about 4 1/2 feet off the ground. They always rushed to the front thinking someone would feed them. Now that they are lower they come out when I sit on the floor to watch them. Yes my wife is makeing plans with the men in white jackets. Anyway the king likes to be on a throne. Keep those breeders up high.

[jeep]

Hey Richie, this is Brian, author of "the worst egg-eater ever". From everything I have ever learned, the egges were not fertalized, either by bad water or by a male that's not ready yet. I have a friend that ordered from Gabe on the same batch as mine and she has had only one tiny success out of about 10 spawnings. One survivor which was eventually eaten. Since then, the parents have spawned about another 6 times and nothing!

I raised Discus when I was a kid living in S.F. and had success there without trying. I don't know what I did, but maybe doing nothing was the key. Since I have gotten back into them, I have read alot about water values and changes. I never did any of that and I even fed them live tubifex worms in S.F. but I had a very high casualty rate too (but Discus were only .50 each so no biggie). I will assume that the water in S.F. is different that in the mid-west, which is where I am now. I use a mixture of 80% R/O to 20% tap and my water comes out with a TDS of 87 and a PH of 6.2 and the fish love it! You may try to lower the Ph a little, to around the 6.0 area. The conductivity may be a little high as well, but don't take my word for it. In either case I wouldn't think the Ph or cond. in your tank would be too high to prevent fertalization. I tried using RO Rite with the RO water and my water turned green and cloudy even with massive water changes. My friend did the same thing and got the same result. A breeder we recenty met uses the same RO/TAP mixture and has great success with crystal clear water.

Good luck!

Brian

[Willie]

RichiE: Sounds like your pairs are still immature. The males take 3 - 6 months to reach maturity after the females can lay eggs. Fish that spawn every 6 days or so have not yet settled down to a regular cycle. Moving two fish that hang together to a breeding tank may be premature, since they're not yet a proven breeding pair. My experience is to let two fish pair off in a large tank with other adults. Wait until you see wrigglers from a spawn before moving them to their own breeding tank. I know of no one who has ever rescued the first spawn from a pair, so you're not losing anything in the process. However, by forcing them to defend their spawn, these fish will develop stronger instincts for mating and subsequent spawning.

Once they pair off, either a 20-gal or a 29-gal is fine. I like 25-gal tanks because they have a smaller footprint, but are higher. A larger tank is not recommend as the babies have trouble finding their parents. Of course, larger tanks are going to work well for some fish, particularly experienced pairs, but not all of them.

Good luck, Willie

[harry]

does turning the fillter off while spawning takes place help ,i read in a old book of my dads that while discus spawn turn fillters off ,once spawned turn back on so as not to destroy the bactiria,just a thought ::)

[limige]

white eggs overnight may be a water problem, my male doesn't fertilize them yet and the eggs stay amber for 3 days before turning white and fungasing!

[limige]

richie!!, why so hot with the BD's? i thought 84 gave best hatch rates?

[Dennis_Hardenburge]

I said it before but here goes again.
Most people breed in either 20gal or 29gal, I use 65 gal tanks for breeding and personally wouldn't use any thing smaller. I have breed in a 130 gallon and will again.
If the lighting is not to bright and there is not to much water movement the fry WILL NOT have a problem attaching to the parents and staying with them.
The parents put a vibration in the water to attract the fry and thier movements are slow when fry are attached.
I personal think it is cruel to put an adult pair in a small tank, how would you like to spend your life in your closet.
How do they attach in the wild if they can't do it in a larger tank, lets get real on this issue.
Dennis

[Rod Coleman]

Dennis, I knew it, your fish live like kings! :)

Just wondering, do the babies have any trouble cleaning up bbs in a bigger tank? I would have thought people were going for smaller tanks to concentrate food.

Regards

Rod

[Dennis_Hardenburge]

Hi Rod
I think space and economics are the only reason to go with small breeding tanks.
I only work with a limited number of fish so the space in no problem.
The only advantage I can see to the smaller tank is when you start feeding other foods to the fry. You can put less food in the tank.
To answer your question no the fry don't have any problem finnding baby brine shrimp, but then I might put a little extra in than you would in a smaller tank, but I siphon the bottom on fry tanks in the morning and evening so it is no problem, also I only feed live baby brine for a week to ten days before I get them on solid foods.
Dennis

[Dennis_Hardenburge]

I might add to this, also I don't change tons of water with my pairs.
With breeding pairs in 65 gallon tanks I change 10 to 15 %
of the water once daily, wheather they have eggs or no eggs or wigglers, once the fry attach and grow I will change larger portions of water as nessecsary.
Dennis

[DarkDiscus]

A good answer to this question might be - As much space as you can give them.

It's probably a lot more fun watching the pairs with their young in a bigger tank, too.

Dennis, how long do you keep the kids with mom and pop? Do you keep them with the parents longer because of the space?

John

[Dennis_Hardenburge]

John
How long I leave fry with the parents, depends on the pair and the size of the spawn.
I like to leave them three + weeks, but some pairs can not take the stress of cairing for young that long.
So it really is on a pair to pair bases.
Dennis