Autopsy of a Red Melon.

I want to find out what causes the death of this fish. She stop eating 5 days ago and became bloated. Number of treatments starting 1 tespoon per 10 gal of Epsom Salt didn't work. Last one was yesterday at 2 teaspoon per gal. That's the swim or sink treatment. Unfortunately, She sank this AM. at 8:25 am. Autopsy was performed. I'll let you make your own diagnosis. She's the only one affacted from the juvenile tank of 25. The rest of them never have enough to eat. Constantly bagging for food.
Subject: Red Melon juvenile first looking bloated.
http://a3.cpimg.com/image/85/80/12503173-4163-02000180-.jpgURL

Equipment.
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Red Melon 3 months old. 3inches. Aggressive eater. Helathy until 5 days ago with bloated GI tract. Food were BH mix. - BH, Shrimp with shell, garlic, vitamin B complex; Red Wrigglers. Tetrabits.
http://a1.cpimg.com/image/01/00/12499201-de0d-02000180-.jpgURL

Cut open reviewed bloated stomach, Bladder- small and normal, anus passage -clear, Liver-normal and red. Gill - Clean, no worm found.
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Close Examination reviewed the right decending gastric passage appeared blocked. Others Left and Middle decending are inflated with fluid. Inflated stomach appeared mostly fluid.
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Cut open the Oral passage leading to the stomach is clear and patent. Fluid escaped out, no food content found when cut open, no worms found, clean and empty. Linings in good shape.
http://a4.cpimg.com/image/04/00/12499204-9510-02000180-.jpgURL

No bloackage from the anus to deodenum. No worm found.Gall bladder is nomal, no ovaries found.
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Duodenum cut open reviewed black healthy feces.
http://a5.cpimg.com/image/5F/03/12499295-c72b-02000180-.jpgURL

Cut open the r decending Gastric passage reviewed shell of shrimp which may have caused the death of this fellow. May this hungry soul Rest in Peace. Amen.
http://a3.cpimg.com/image/E3/0F/12499683-4adc-02000180-.jpgURL

Jimmy.

[Aquarius]

Jimmy,

Thanks for the info, sorry about the fish though. This is really interesting as never seen a set of pic's showing an Autopsy. Learn something everday! Also now know not to feed the shells of shrimp to the discus, though would this also happen in a larger fish? I ask as I just bought some Mysis shrimp.

-steve

WoW! Jimmy......

I know that had to be a little heart breaking ???

How often do you do autopsies? I think I'd really have a hard time doing that to one of my Discus..... it would be another story if it were red fish, flounder or trout ;D

Anyway.... glad you found the cause ;)

I was seriously thinking about using live grass shrimp in my Discus's diet...(they're plentiful here and free of charge) .... on second thought....."NOT"

Beth

Jimmy....

Just a thought here..... do you know what I'm referring to when I say grass shrimp ??? They live in brackish water in my area and are very small. They also sell them in the lfs"s around here for most cichlids :-\

any thoughts on this.... would this be a good thing for them ???

I tell ya... it sure would be hard to peal those little guys :-\ if they're are any possitive benefits to feeding them I may give it a try ::)

Beth

[brewmaster15]

Hi Jimmy!
Sorry you lost that fish! But that was a really good educational use you put its death too. Nice work on the autopsy and shell fragment. I often wondered about whether it was better to leave the shell on or off when making beefheart. IT look likes there is at least a potential for the shell causing blockage in younger fish.

Thanks for sharing!
-al

[bokgrasul]

AMEN!
pour soul

[Ardan]

Hi Jimmy,
Thanks for sharing. Very interesting and informative. 8)

Ardan :sun:

I'm not familiar with the anatomy of the fish. There're 3 tubes distal to the stomach. The blockage is not the tube connected to the Deodenum, that explain why Espsom Salt did work. What's that tube for.? It could be the tube for the water to come out from the stomach. It's the narrowest of the three. It looks like it never went through the digestive process and went out from the wrong tube that caused the blockage. Anyone had a diagram of fish organs.? Please don't feel sorry for me. I'm glad I have one less to feed. I still have 24 of them don't know where to put them. Another 150 BD coming up. Discus is fun and challenging.

Jimmy.

[bmrin1]

Jimmy,
Sorry about your loss. I am very impressed by your post mortem work. Very informative. I am glad I do not put shell in with my mix.
Brian

[Carol_Roberts]

Very informative Jimmy.
I saved this picture of an autopsy by Phog. It doesn't answer your question, but as long as we're on the topic it clearly shows the location of other internal organs.
Carol :heart1:

[fcdiscus]

Jimmy, Very informative piece if work. Thanks, Frank

Excellent Carol. thanks. that' s the antomyof the left side of the fish. Mine is the right side. That's complete the full view of the antomay of the discus. I'm glad I went to the right side. Otherwide I wouldn't have seen the blockage. i didn't see the ovaries. My fish must be a male or not yet developed any sexual charateristic due to young age.

Jimmy.

[tango0806]

Jimmy/Carol

Exceptional post, very well done. There a lot of pics like that in Dieter Untergasser's book. It give us all a good look at what's going on inside our Discus. Sorry about the loss.

John G

[DenverDan]

Jimmy great post. And Carol wonderful follow-up. For everybody just sit back and think of everthing that you have learned on this forum, I did and one word can to mind
WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dan

Great post Jimmy and thanks Carol for your additional pic :thumbsup:

I'm thinking, too, that this may only be a problem with young fish.

Beth,

I doubt grass shrimp would cause a problem with discus as far as digestion is concerned, esp. adults ;)

Mat

I just dissect another fish (cull)and this time cut open the left side. the internal anatomy is completely different than the right side. The tube which had the blockage on the other fish is very narrow and small on this normal fish. I'm planning to do a needle biopsy to tap fluid out from the right side of the lateral line next time when I have a similar fish. I'll get some Nitrous Oxide ready to anaesthize them before I do that. I'll document it and report you all. discus do have a short digestive tract. I think the blockage was caused by an on set of imflamation of the the stomach linings that provided a big enough passage for the undigested food to lodge into the tube which supplies an digestive enzyme to the stomach. Just guessing.

Jimmy.

[brewmaster15]

Hi Jimmy,
You can also use carbon Dioxide . a couple of Alka seltzers in a gallon of water makes a good anesthesia for a fish. I've used it before with great success. I'm not sure how the nitrous oxide would work. I have never seen it reccommended. You can also use MS222, as a doc, you should have no problem getting it.
Good luck, and thanks again,
al

[taybelZ]

HI Jimmy,
sorry to hear of your lost,
tho i'm sure that knowing the cause of death helps you rest.
those pictures were sure interesting, I have never dissected a fish before so it was something new to me.

Very educational.
Thanks for posting

[lub0]

Hi, can you please repost the pictures, looks like there is a problem with them.
Thanks a lot!