DarkDiscus
09-04-2002, 01:13 PM
Without any further delay, here is the interview I had with Cary on 8/29/02:
Q: So, I guess the obligatory first question is ;How did you start out with tropical fish and discus in particular?
Cary: Ive been into fish ever since I was 4 years old. I went to visit my grandparents. Because of some family issues, we had not had much contact with them for a while, and this was my first visit. My grandma had a 10 gallon tank filled with fancy guppies. I was hooked. When it came time to leave I cried so hard that she packed up the fish and sent the tank home with me. Ever since then, Ive been hooked. 18 years ago I went into a local fish store and saw a 180 gallon tank with Wattley discus. They were monsters. Very sweet. The guy who owned the store was just storing them for a friend. But I wanted some. I knew that sooner or later, Id get some.
Q: So how long was sooner or later?
Cary: About a year later I set up a tank and bought my first discus from Steve McDonald. I got some red pigeons (marlboro reds), blue diamonds, the old snakeskins, red turqs and blues. I put them into a 180 gallon tank with gravel, a UG filter, slate and some plants. They did really well. I had learned enough to do water changes and tried to keep up 30-40% a day. About 80% of the fish reached 6 inch size.
Q: I get the feeling there is more to this story.
Cary: After 2 years, the tank crashed. Bacteria, flukes, cloudy water. The works. It was pretty ugly. I ripped the tank apart and went to bare bottom. That helped a lot and afterward I started getting my first pairs.
Q: So then you tried your hand at breeding discus?
Cary: I contacted as many breeders as I could and tried to find out the secret. I got different advice from everyone, which was pretty confusing. I settled on using peat and acid treating the water. I got some fry, but they were really small hatch out rates. Only about 10-15 babies per spawn survived. So I figured I would try artificial. I spoke to the breeders again, and talked to the 2 I thought were the best. One of them, who shall remain nameless, offered to teach me the secret of artificial breeding for $2,500. Obviously I wasnt going to go that route. I got really discouraged. So I just put the fish in plain tap water while I tried to figure out what to do. They started breeding like crazy and I got tons of fry. Awesome success. I stopped playing with the water and left the fish alone and they did the rest.
Q: Some secret breeding recipe! So now you have a ton of fry and breeding fish. What did you do next?
Cary: I bought more fish! But taking care of them was taking up a lot of time. So I automated my waterchanges, which gave me more time, so I bought more fish.
Q: So now you have lots of fish and not enough time.
Cary: Pretty much.
Q: So how many tanks are you up to?
Cary: I have 85 tanks running right now with 20 active pairs.
Q: Have you worked mainly with existing strains, or have you tried to develop some of your own?
Cary: Mostly existing strains. I have worked on shape and quality of the fish. I am a stickler for top quality fish and have tried to sell only the best. Im still working on quality. Theres nothing better than a big, quality discus.
Q: So what are you up to now?
Cary: Actually I am thinking of stepping back a little. Im not going to import new strains. Collecting new strains was always a goal of mine and it costs a lot for only a little return. The quality was not always there and I took a big loss a lot of the time. I WILL still get fish from Roy and Sly. Those guys have awesome quality fish. But I want to step back and cut down a little.
Q: So do you have more demand than supply?
Cary: Theres always a lot of demand. I want to cut it back to 10-11 strains, but only super quality fish. I want to build up their genetics by breeding fish from different origins together to make strong, healthy, quality discus. I want to deal with only top fish, not common stock. Im going to be dealing with the higher level hobbyist more and more. I cant make everyone happy, so I have to return to what I love about the fish.
Q: It sounds like youre a little burned out.
Cary: Definitely. Every day I have 2-3 big orders. I have less time to do the things I want to do and it can get frustrating.
Q: To change the subject, I heard that you have another job besides the discus?
Cary: Im a mason. Except for this year, I have spent summers doing masonry and winters with the fish. I took a year off from being a mason. I just started up again. In a way its harder work than the fish, but its also relaxing in a way.
Q: So did you plan on ever just doing the fish and no masonry?
Cary: I have thought about it. It takes me 4 and a half hours every day to do water changes alone. That is a job right there. Plus there is the meds and checking on the pairs. Not to mention dealing with e-mails and getting shipments ready. I have Jack to help me out, and he actually likes doing water changes. If I leave him alone long enough, he will do them by himself...
Q: Sounds like a help.
Cary: He is. Its a lot of fun spending time with him and he really loves the fish. He is just like I was when I was a kid and thats fun for me.
Q: So do you ever have time to just look at the fish?
Cary: Yes, but its a quick look only!
Q: You said you want to work with special quality fish. Any preview for us on whats next?
Cary: Right now I am working with the White Diamond crossed with Tangerine, Violet Reflections, Melons crossed with Bangkok Melons and Rose Red crossed with Gold Diamonds. They all have a lot of potential and will definitely be very sweet.
Q: Do any of your existing strains have special sentimental value for you or which you plan on keeping going?
Cary: My original snakeskin line which I have been keeping going for 15 years is really quality and is a strong line. Also my original marlboro reds. Ive been building them up by breeding F2 to F1 and working with F3 back crossed to the father. Im going for the best quality fish with strong genetics.
Q: Are there any special tips you have out there for the aspiring breeders?
Cary: Number one ANYONE CAN DO IT! If you start with quality fish and give them plenty of good foods, lots of water changes and good care, they will do great and end up fine. Number two DONT alter parameters. Go with the water you have. Keep up with your WC and you will be fine. Number three CULL! I cull first at 1 inch for body size. That cuts out about 30% of the fry. At 1.5 inch I cull for defects. Most defects are visible at that time. 20% more go at that time. As they hit 2.5 to 3 inches I cull again for color and pattern and anything I missed the first time. That leaves you with 20 to 30 percent REALLY good fish. This way only the best fish are sold or held for future breeders. That last bunch that I cull I do sell to LFS and they are still better than most of the stuff they see.
Q: Heres a tough one. If you are kind of burned out and very tired, why stick with it? Would you ever consider getting out all together? Im just testing you here.
Cary: No. Ill always stick with discus no matter what. I love animals and I love fish. It would be really strange not to have them around. I love discus, even if I do get tired and burned out. Ive also always liked being popular. I guess that comes from where I grew up, but I always like being known and just being popular.
Q: Celebrity discus breeder status, right?
Cary: Pretty much.
Q: Any other notes on a busy life you wanted to give us.
Cary: I did want to go back into the guppies for a minute. I raised and bred them for years and breeding them was a good start to breeding discus. I used to keep 26 strains of guppies in 20 kiddie pools using my RO wastewater, from when I used the RO. I grew some HUGE guppies more like the size of mollies. They became known in Michigan as super guppies. I still have people calling me asking for me to go back into breeding them.
Q: Any chance of that?
Cary: No. I gave up guppies to concentrate on discus and I dont have time for both of them. Speaking of kiddie pools, I have discus in one in my backyard right now. Heckel/Turq crosses. They have grown huge and are really vibrant in color. They eat a ton of mosquito larvae and love them.
Q: I just posted recently about wanting to put a pool in my basement and raise discus in it.
Cary: I read that. I think it would work great, except you obviously cant breed them in the pool you need to be able to get at the young and see what you are working with. If you used it for a grow-out tank, you would do well with it, I think. They have these new fold-out pools that would work also.
Q: Any credit you want to give to anyone or any personal comments?
Cary: I want to thank my wife. She is the best and I couldnt do it without her. She lets me get away with a lot and do what I need to do. She also does a lot of the computer work and accounting to help with the discus, which I am not good at! Thanks for everything, Sue! We will be having a new baby scheduled for October 7th and ..
Q: Wow! Congratulations!
Cary: Thanks. I guess this is an official scoop. I am asking Matt Parsons, who is a great friend and great guy to be the Godfather. Its going to be a boy and were planning on naming him Tyler.
Q: Can I print that? Tyler, like the guy on the SimplyDiscus site?
Cary: Go ahead. And yeah, just like that. By the way, I want to thank you also, John, for taking the time to do the interview. These are a lot of fun and youre saving me from having to type so thats even better!
Q: Thank you for agreeing to answer all my questions. And that brings us to the final one: Do you have any last words of wisdom?
Cary: Just have patience. Discus take a long time to grow and they take a while to get breeding down. Nothing comes quickly. If your fish are healthy, they will come around. Good luck!
Q: So, I guess the obligatory first question is ;How did you start out with tropical fish and discus in particular?
Cary: Ive been into fish ever since I was 4 years old. I went to visit my grandparents. Because of some family issues, we had not had much contact with them for a while, and this was my first visit. My grandma had a 10 gallon tank filled with fancy guppies. I was hooked. When it came time to leave I cried so hard that she packed up the fish and sent the tank home with me. Ever since then, Ive been hooked. 18 years ago I went into a local fish store and saw a 180 gallon tank with Wattley discus. They were monsters. Very sweet. The guy who owned the store was just storing them for a friend. But I wanted some. I knew that sooner or later, Id get some.
Q: So how long was sooner or later?
Cary: About a year later I set up a tank and bought my first discus from Steve McDonald. I got some red pigeons (marlboro reds), blue diamonds, the old snakeskins, red turqs and blues. I put them into a 180 gallon tank with gravel, a UG filter, slate and some plants. They did really well. I had learned enough to do water changes and tried to keep up 30-40% a day. About 80% of the fish reached 6 inch size.
Q: I get the feeling there is more to this story.
Cary: After 2 years, the tank crashed. Bacteria, flukes, cloudy water. The works. It was pretty ugly. I ripped the tank apart and went to bare bottom. That helped a lot and afterward I started getting my first pairs.
Q: So then you tried your hand at breeding discus?
Cary: I contacted as many breeders as I could and tried to find out the secret. I got different advice from everyone, which was pretty confusing. I settled on using peat and acid treating the water. I got some fry, but they were really small hatch out rates. Only about 10-15 babies per spawn survived. So I figured I would try artificial. I spoke to the breeders again, and talked to the 2 I thought were the best. One of them, who shall remain nameless, offered to teach me the secret of artificial breeding for $2,500. Obviously I wasnt going to go that route. I got really discouraged. So I just put the fish in plain tap water while I tried to figure out what to do. They started breeding like crazy and I got tons of fry. Awesome success. I stopped playing with the water and left the fish alone and they did the rest.
Q: Some secret breeding recipe! So now you have a ton of fry and breeding fish. What did you do next?
Cary: I bought more fish! But taking care of them was taking up a lot of time. So I automated my waterchanges, which gave me more time, so I bought more fish.
Q: So now you have lots of fish and not enough time.
Cary: Pretty much.
Q: So how many tanks are you up to?
Cary: I have 85 tanks running right now with 20 active pairs.
Q: Have you worked mainly with existing strains, or have you tried to develop some of your own?
Cary: Mostly existing strains. I have worked on shape and quality of the fish. I am a stickler for top quality fish and have tried to sell only the best. Im still working on quality. Theres nothing better than a big, quality discus.
Q: So what are you up to now?
Cary: Actually I am thinking of stepping back a little. Im not going to import new strains. Collecting new strains was always a goal of mine and it costs a lot for only a little return. The quality was not always there and I took a big loss a lot of the time. I WILL still get fish from Roy and Sly. Those guys have awesome quality fish. But I want to step back and cut down a little.
Q: So do you have more demand than supply?
Cary: Theres always a lot of demand. I want to cut it back to 10-11 strains, but only super quality fish. I want to build up their genetics by breeding fish from different origins together to make strong, healthy, quality discus. I want to deal with only top fish, not common stock. Im going to be dealing with the higher level hobbyist more and more. I cant make everyone happy, so I have to return to what I love about the fish.
Q: It sounds like youre a little burned out.
Cary: Definitely. Every day I have 2-3 big orders. I have less time to do the things I want to do and it can get frustrating.
Q: To change the subject, I heard that you have another job besides the discus?
Cary: Im a mason. Except for this year, I have spent summers doing masonry and winters with the fish. I took a year off from being a mason. I just started up again. In a way its harder work than the fish, but its also relaxing in a way.
Q: So did you plan on ever just doing the fish and no masonry?
Cary: I have thought about it. It takes me 4 and a half hours every day to do water changes alone. That is a job right there. Plus there is the meds and checking on the pairs. Not to mention dealing with e-mails and getting shipments ready. I have Jack to help me out, and he actually likes doing water changes. If I leave him alone long enough, he will do them by himself...
Q: Sounds like a help.
Cary: He is. Its a lot of fun spending time with him and he really loves the fish. He is just like I was when I was a kid and thats fun for me.
Q: So do you ever have time to just look at the fish?
Cary: Yes, but its a quick look only!
Q: You said you want to work with special quality fish. Any preview for us on whats next?
Cary: Right now I am working with the White Diamond crossed with Tangerine, Violet Reflections, Melons crossed with Bangkok Melons and Rose Red crossed with Gold Diamonds. They all have a lot of potential and will definitely be very sweet.
Q: Do any of your existing strains have special sentimental value for you or which you plan on keeping going?
Cary: My original snakeskin line which I have been keeping going for 15 years is really quality and is a strong line. Also my original marlboro reds. Ive been building them up by breeding F2 to F1 and working with F3 back crossed to the father. Im going for the best quality fish with strong genetics.
Q: Are there any special tips you have out there for the aspiring breeders?
Cary: Number one ANYONE CAN DO IT! If you start with quality fish and give them plenty of good foods, lots of water changes and good care, they will do great and end up fine. Number two DONT alter parameters. Go with the water you have. Keep up with your WC and you will be fine. Number three CULL! I cull first at 1 inch for body size. That cuts out about 30% of the fry. At 1.5 inch I cull for defects. Most defects are visible at that time. 20% more go at that time. As they hit 2.5 to 3 inches I cull again for color and pattern and anything I missed the first time. That leaves you with 20 to 30 percent REALLY good fish. This way only the best fish are sold or held for future breeders. That last bunch that I cull I do sell to LFS and they are still better than most of the stuff they see.
Q: Heres a tough one. If you are kind of burned out and very tired, why stick with it? Would you ever consider getting out all together? Im just testing you here.
Cary: No. Ill always stick with discus no matter what. I love animals and I love fish. It would be really strange not to have them around. I love discus, even if I do get tired and burned out. Ive also always liked being popular. I guess that comes from where I grew up, but I always like being known and just being popular.
Q: Celebrity discus breeder status, right?
Cary: Pretty much.
Q: Any other notes on a busy life you wanted to give us.
Cary: I did want to go back into the guppies for a minute. I raised and bred them for years and breeding them was a good start to breeding discus. I used to keep 26 strains of guppies in 20 kiddie pools using my RO wastewater, from when I used the RO. I grew some HUGE guppies more like the size of mollies. They became known in Michigan as super guppies. I still have people calling me asking for me to go back into breeding them.
Q: Any chance of that?
Cary: No. I gave up guppies to concentrate on discus and I dont have time for both of them. Speaking of kiddie pools, I have discus in one in my backyard right now. Heckel/Turq crosses. They have grown huge and are really vibrant in color. They eat a ton of mosquito larvae and love them.
Q: I just posted recently about wanting to put a pool in my basement and raise discus in it.
Cary: I read that. I think it would work great, except you obviously cant breed them in the pool you need to be able to get at the young and see what you are working with. If you used it for a grow-out tank, you would do well with it, I think. They have these new fold-out pools that would work also.
Q: Any credit you want to give to anyone or any personal comments?
Cary: I want to thank my wife. She is the best and I couldnt do it without her. She lets me get away with a lot and do what I need to do. She also does a lot of the computer work and accounting to help with the discus, which I am not good at! Thanks for everything, Sue! We will be having a new baby scheduled for October 7th and ..
Q: Wow! Congratulations!
Cary: Thanks. I guess this is an official scoop. I am asking Matt Parsons, who is a great friend and great guy to be the Godfather. Its going to be a boy and were planning on naming him Tyler.
Q: Can I print that? Tyler, like the guy on the SimplyDiscus site?
Cary: Go ahead. And yeah, just like that. By the way, I want to thank you also, John, for taking the time to do the interview. These are a lot of fun and youre saving me from having to type so thats even better!
Q: Thank you for agreeing to answer all my questions. And that brings us to the final one: Do you have any last words of wisdom?
Cary: Just have patience. Discus take a long time to grow and they take a while to get breeding down. Nothing comes quickly. If your fish are healthy, they will come around. Good luck!