Slanting fish with clamped fins and not feeding!!!

[Coeyan]

Physical condition of the fish
1. visible parasites (describe)
None I can see.

2. stringy feces
I tot all feces are stringy

3. head standing
Yup

4. bloated/ constipated
Nope

5. Hole in the head, lateral line erosion
None

6. spots, salt like flecks, velvety appearance,cotton like growths etc.
None

7. excessive slime production
Ok.......how do you tell? I think its a no.

8. labored breathing, disfunctional gill
Breathing fast.

9. cloudy eyes
They are sharp

10.darkened color
Darken colour at clamped fins area.

11. faded color
Nope

12. other unusual changes...


Water parameters
1. pH?
Normal

2. Temperature…
Normal

3. hardness?
Soft

4. conductivity?
Normal

5. TDS?
Whats this?

6. R/O (reverse osmosis) filtered, or Tap (well or chlorinated city water), rain water
Tap

7. Water change regime? ( example .. 30 % daily, weekly monthly etc)
Daily about 30%

8. appearance (cloudy, green , clear, yellowish etc)
Clear

9. Odor (smells clean or sulfur-lit match smell-anaerobic indicator)
Fresh

Tank parameters
1. Size in gallons/liters?
Its quite a big tank.

2. Substrate.? (bare glass, gravel, sand..)
Nothing

3. Planted?
Nothing

4. Drift wood?
Nothing. Just bare.

Filter types
1 Wet/dry?
Wet

2. Canister?
Nope

3. hanging box( aquaclear whisper etc)?
Nope

4. sponges?
Nope

5. supplimental Peat filter?
Nope

6. supplimental air?
Nope

7. Carbon, resin exchanges, ammo-chips etc
Nope


Lighting( Important for algae problems and plant growth)
1. Hood
2. bulb type size, watts, spectrum (ex 5000K daylight)
3. light/dark cycle (number hours on/off)
Lighting on alternating hours for 24 hours.

General….
1. Diet(what and how often do you feed you fish?
every day once.

2. Other tank occupants than discus?
3 other discus. 1 particularly large one, that seems to be bullying the others. But the seemingly diseased one doesn't feed at all, unlike others.

3. How many Discus in your tank?
4 discus.

4. How long have you had them?
about 2 weeks

5. Where did you get them (breeder/ Local Fish Shop -LFS)
Local fish shop.

6. Tank and filter cleaning schedule?
Twice a month.

7. Medications/ salt treatments recently used or tried to treat this problem?

None.


HELP!!!! :'(

[fcdiscus]

Hi, JMO but I think your fish is just frightened by that big guy you mentioned. Discus ar cichlids, and the bullys get worse at feeding time. Is there anyway you can separate him for a while? Frank

[Carol_Roberts]

Is your discus at an angle trying to hide or at angle because cannot maintain balance?

If not eating and cannot maintain balance and only had for two weeks and other three eat fine and are healthy then this discus may have a bacterial infection of swim bladder. Which is nearly impossible to treat.

By the way, if these are young fish they need to eat more than once a day - maybe 3 or 4 times a day.

Carol :heart1:

[Coeyan]

Its at the angle trying to balance. It seems to be swimming on one fin only. It rarely uses the other. Hmm......and sometimes it dashes about the tank.

I notice there are dark patches at its lower and upper back fins. Are clamped fins like that?

[Carol_Roberts]

clamped fins are held close to the body - like a dog with it's tail between it's legs rather than wagging happily.
Carol :heart1:

[Coeyan]

After putting some medication, the black areas seem to disappear, and the fish doesn't clamp its fins anymore. But whats disturbing is that he occasionally darts around, trying to scratch his sides as if something is tickling him. ???

The fish colours seem to have faded away.

Advice welcome.

[Carol_Roberts]

Something is irritating the discus.
What medication did you use?
What is your readings for ammonia?
What is your reading for nitrIte?
How long has filter been running?
Are all discus scratching and dashing?
Carol :heart1:

[Coeyan]

I reckon the nitrates and ammonia levels are normal, coz I really change my water daily..

I don't know if you heard of this, but I used some medication called Super Disease Away from Ocean Free. I think its seems to be working.

[Carol_Roberts]

I've not heard of Super disease away. What diseases are supposed to go away?

You can change water everday and still have ammonia and nitrIIIIIte in your tnak if your filters are not fully cycled. this can cause the symptoms you see in your fish.

Carol :heart1:

[Coeyan]

How do you keep your nitrates and ammonia levels at the lowest then?

[Carol_Roberts]

IF you have ammonia and/or nitrIte your filters aren't fully cycled. Then you need to make several water changes through out the day to reduce levels close to zero.

IF you have aged change water of the same temperature and pH you can make three 50% water changes a day.

IF you only have water from the tap change 25% up to six times a day.

Without an ammonia or nitrite test kit it's hard to tell from thousands of miles away if that is the problem. Can you take a jar of tank water (Before a water change) to the fish store and have them test for ammonia and nitrite?
Carol :heart1:

[Coeyan]

Really? I can do that? :o

[Carol_Roberts]

Yes.
Carol :heart1:

[peety]

I'm fairly new to this game so forgive me if I blunder but have had the same symptoms with my fish. It happens with one fish in particular and is when the water conditions are poor and when the oxygen levels drop :-[. I am assuming this one fish is the runt of a litter and suffers first if I've been failing in my responsibilities :(.
The last time it happened I had been changing tank setup and put airpump on the wrong power supply. All other fish were fine but my runt suffered for a day. I added another pump, and switched air to continuous supply again and he made a full recovery. I keep a very close eye on this fish now since if he's fine the rest should be ;D

peety

Sounds like a bac infection to me.

IME and study! More then likely its pseudomonas species.
It is very commen and part of the natural flora of all discus.
in most cases it is often mistaken for gill flukes in its early stage's.

But ofcourse the gill flukes are the ones that open the door for this organism.


Believe it or not it only becomes a problem when stress has occured with the biggest being water quality or external parasites.


when active it is very contagious to all discus.


from what I seen no meds are needed and most stronger discus will fight it off with high quality water changes.
However if young fry are attacked meds will be needed.
along with salts foe secondary infections.

I would dip them in hyde or pp then add them back to the tank with high levels of salts and furan two or binox.
Tc works well at high dose's but is stressful on smaller discus. Neomycin works wonders to but is very costly for such a minor problem such as this.

Anyways I have no forsure way to tell what Your Discus Have and Am only takeing a guess on what to do.
hope you understand!

Best wishes
keep us posted
cary gld!

Cary,
I was about to suggest the same thing: a bacterial infection (only i wouldn't be capable of providing all the additional info...). Would raising the temp a bit help too?

[peety]

Sorry, I don't mean to simplify stuff (but I can't help it) ???

I was trying to say, that having observed a similar sympton, I was able to correct it with very little difficulty. In my case it was lack of oxygen that created the problem but treated soon enough it was fixed, no meds, nuffink... just a tad more air.
Thru this site and others I have relied on just a couple of rules, water, more water, and a constant environment. I was only offering a hope, that if, like I, negligence had played a part, a water change and more air might help. Did for me....twice!!! Jeez, I hated saying I did twice !!! :-[ :-[ :-[

(Name withheld for reasons of looking like a twit) ;)

[EthanCote.com]

Hey Brad,

Raising temperature is not recommended for fish with bacterial infection. Apparently the high heat favour the growth of bacteria and thus to the demise of your Discus.

I have read where a temp of 82-84F is best.

HTH.


Cheers,

Chi.

Chi,
Don't be so sure! Hi heat works great if you know what your doing ;D and what your dealing with. ;)

Cary Gld!

[EthanCote.com]

Hey Gary, please elaborate.

The only info I received was from reading the various posts here on Simply and the consensus is to lower temp for bacterial infection.

It would be great to get a different opinion about heat and bacteria.

Thanx.


Cheers,

Chi.

Hi Chai,

What I was trying to say is when dealing with a bacterial infection, and understanding its life cycle and what this certain organism is (identified) or what meds it is susceptible to. Sometimes heat is the way to go. Of course, high temps accelerate the infection. But this is what we want when using the proper antibiotic to kill it. I guess what I am trying say is if I know what kind of bacteria I have and what type of med to kill it by raising the heat and treating. my ordeal will end faster than if used at a lower temps. Not to mention most fish will continue to eat when treated at higher temps.

Another key point here is we never know what many of the problems are that are discussed on this disease board. We only take our best guess trying to help one another. IME and IMO 75% of the baterial problems are caused by parasites or protozoans. If you do a little research about fresh water parasites/protozoans you will find most do not do well in high heat. A lot of bacterial problems that affect discus are always present in your tank. Most discus will fight off these infections alone with good clean water.

75% of the problems are caused by protozoan/parasites. So IMO I have no problem telling anyone to use high heat. kill it clean the water daily 50% and bam!. I only state that tank water is clean and parameters are stable Otherwise yes, if not done correctly most will kill their discus using high heat.


HTH
TakeCare,
Cary Gld!

[EthanCote.com]

Hey Gary,

Thanks for the info. It makes total sense what you are saying.

And isn't the Internet great when yer sick? At least you can surf the net, chat and stuffs and won't be passing any germs to others ;D

I'm just getting over a cold myself and was on the net playing games for the past 3 days hehe.


Cheers,

Chi.

HEY CHI ME TO IT WAS (HELLOFACOLD!)


THE HYDE DIPS HELPED ALOT HEE.HEE.HEE

TAKECARE,
CARY

I still think he types like he has a cold. Your words look all stuffed up, Cary.... ;) hee hee ;D ;D