New Policy in effect immediately....

[brewmaster15]

HI all,

This forum was designed to be a place to discuss Discus , their care, diseases that afflict them, and breeding. Its a place to share our love for this fish.

It was not designed to be the better business bureau for consumers against discus breeders/retailers. If someone else wants to dump the time and money into a site like that be my guest but it will not happen here. In our opinion there is no fair way to do it.

Recently we have been inundated with complaints ...why did we pull this comment, why edit that one, why lock that one? lawsuit threats from some , reprimands and accusations from others. Heres everyones wake up call.... ENOUGH!! If a topic is edited, removed or locked there was a reason for it. Moderators and admin do not take personal pleasure out of trying to keep the peace. WE have far more important things to do. The painful truth is that these posts would not be edited in anyway whatsoever if the people posting them took the time to evaluate what they are saying, how they word it, and think about if it goes against the rules. This board is used by many, not just by the few that get moderated, often times those silent watchers IM moderators or email me and voice their complaints. Historically its always the same handful that get moderated.


We have debated how to handle breeder/seller disputes on this board. We have tried to tone down the heated arguments to just facts. We are at the point where we feel a Zero tolerance policy for anything posted in a negative fashion about a breeder is necessary.This is just an extension of our zero tolerance policy for negative posts directed at other members. We feel this is the fairest policy. Those breeders who are good will get lots of recommendations, those that are not, will have none. This is called a Positive Feedback System. As I have said before…. The only people who know exactly what transpired between a seller and buyer are those two individuals. It is not for this board and its members to decide the details of right or wrong. Its for the applicable legal systems to do so.

We do however recognize the need for some way for a discus hobbyist to find the good seller and avoid the less trustworthy ones, so we have decided on the following policy.....

Here is what is allowed....

Positive comments about a breeder.

What is not allowed... negative comments. You want to pay the bad ones back, sing the praise of the good ones. Send them the business. If you feel the need to go into details about your bad experience with the seller, have people email you for details in private….

example....
“I would not buy from breeder X --- email me for more details”


There is no fair way for us to do this other than this way. My advice to you is buy from a well known breeder that has many positive comments. Ask for pictures, ask for references from the breeder, when possible visit the breeder in person, and document everything...


Above all we want this site to be a place where everyone feels comfortable posting. We built this site on the concept of a friendly community and we firmly feel this policy is necessary to preserve those foundations. WE apologize to everyone that disagrees with this policy, but are sure you can find other venues to deal with your seller/ buyer problems.

Sincerely,
The SimplyDiscus Team

not to try to stir up any controversy at all, but would posting pics of rather undesireable fish and name the breeder they were bought from be in violation of this policy if no negative words are used in the post? Thanks in advance for the clarification...i fully support you Al.

Brad

[brewmaster15]

hi Brad,
The best thing to do is use the...

I would not buy from breeder X --- email me for more details”

then email them the pics, and your experience.

The problem with posting a pic is the photo could be a bad one, the fish could have been cared for improperly by the buyer, poor QT could have been used etc.


hope this clarifies it,
al

[fishroom]

Greetings,
Being new to this post I appreciate this new policy. I have my aquariums to get away from the real world for a little while. I realize that people are trying to help others but there is a place to draw the line. The last thing I want to do after logging onto this site is read about personal politics and negitivity. It seems as though their is enough of this in every day life.

[erikiiy]

This is your board, so everyone that want to post have to follow your rules. Instead of only telling people not to say negative things about breeder/seller, why not do the same for positive things to say.

“I would not buy from breeder X --- email me for more details”
“I would from breeder X --- email me for more details”

This would seem even more fair.

Thats just a though though, am not trying to stir trouble here.

[RandalB]

Excellent decision AL and Company. I was really getting sick of reading all the crap going back and forth. Stick to the info about raising the fish and keeping them happy. :thumbsup:

This is not the better business bureau and should'nt have to be.

RandalB

Erikiiy SORRY, :-[


BUT I DISAGREE! :P


I did not write any books or do I have fish foods named after Me. :o THIS IS ALL I HAVE. I got where I am today cause of the forums. :)
I like Your first Ideal but plain and simple your second is for the birds. ;D

ANYWAYS 80% OF THE BIZ IS FROM NEWBIES HALF OF YOU WILL NOT BE AROUND NEXT MONTH BUT OTHERS WILL TO TAKE YOUR PLACE. WAY BAD IDEAL ON YOUR PART IMO AFTER PLEASEING SO MANY BUILDING MY REP! TO NOW NOT LET IT BE ALOUD. WELL HELL THEN WHATS THE POINT OF TRYING SO HARD TO PLEASE? I THINK I'LL JUST FEED THE DISCUS AM SELLING ONCE A DAY NOW! AND I'LL ALSO RENEW MY IMPORT LISENCE. CAN'T BEAT EM SO JOIN EM
HELL MAYBE IT WOULD BE BETTER IF I JUST LEAVE. ???
BOO HOO ALL THE WAY HOME! :'(
Your Fav
GLD! ;D

P.S Erikiiy I MEAN NO! HARM AND I'LL NEVER LEAVE HEE.HEE.HEE
p.s

[April]

Your not going anywhere mr. cary....some of us newbies stay around..and become not so newbies...and want more and more and more...of your fishies...as we keep getting nice big fat ones who breed when they get here. ;D
so get feeding and keep posting..and we will keep buying. and learning with you.

[erikiiy]

;D ;D ;D

I knew most won't agree with me on this. But thats cool though.

I am sure you sell nice fish Mr. Cary. But I called Ms. Cleo today, she told me you would not be feeding your fish as much because you gotta feed your baby the bottle.

:) :) :)

[mikeos]

Hi Al & All & Co....

Excelent decision, we are suposed to be discussing fish, not the business practice of suppliers etc. One of the reasons I like this board so much ( apart from the great people here that is) is the lack of personal abuse and general bickering.

Moderation is GOOD as long as it does not detract from the general content or message where possible.

I do have questions though, for example the recent spate of ebo heater failures.

How would this be communicated in the future?

Are we limiting this policy to breeders only, which would seem a little biased?

Would a post allong the lines of " Bought 10 "qwerty" filters & none work after 6 months, no help at all from customer service" be fair comment, ie I am comunicating a problem or possible problem without passing personal comments or denigrating the manufacturer?

Just looking for some clarification.

Keep up the good work guys


mike

PS Freedom of speech does not mean you are free to say what you like, (unless you are prepared to face the concequences should someone take offence) there are laws for slander, defamation etc. and the internet is not exempt. If a current Australian case sets a precedent you may be liable even if the person bringing the case is in another country.

[Smokey]

Howdy:

Perhaps people do not realize just how important freedom of speech "IS" .

SPEECH.. the ability to express one's KNOWLEDGE, PERSONAL EXPIERENCE'S, AND TO ASK QUESTIONS .

Personally, I am more than happy to share what I have learned and expierenced over the many years, within this hobby.

Yes, I too have had " bad expierences" with dealers, breeders, and the buying public.

However, to be able to share my personal "expierence's", with others, I endevor to be polite and truthful. Believe me, sometimes this is very difficult.

As my grandpappy said ... Rudeness ... just showing everybody how ignorant you really are.

( on the soap-box )

Smokey

Al and all, i have to say i disagree with this new form of censorship. I feel now the moderators are to say what is negative and what is positive and delete messages from there point of view. If i buy fish and am unhappy with them i want the freedom to tell others why. In the open as to keep it fair. I understand why you have done this, but i do not support your decision and i am stepping down as a moderator.
I will support your decision and respect your forum, i just am not going to be part of censorship in any form if someone is telling the truth. I feel we all have the right to say what we feel is the truth. Even if it goes against the normal, or pouplar line of thinking. Now there is one less resourse for a buyer to expose a bad seller or one less reason for a crooked seller to be honest and sell good fish. Why should they sell good fish, they cant be held accountable on simply anymore.
You let a small handfull of people ruin a great thing, and punish the whole lot as a attempt to keep the peace.
This is your forum, and i agree you have the right to run it any way you see fit, but i will not be part of it any more.
I hope we can all still be friends, but i will not be part of this.
Respectfully, Matt

[brewmaster15]

Hi Matt,


I hope we can all still be friends, but i will not be part of this.


Its only forum my friend, I knew when we made the decision that not everyone would be happy with it. I appreciate your honesty , and am sorry to see you leave as moderator over it. Now I have to post help wanted sign! ;D j/k


just some points...

If i buy fish and am unhappy with them i want the freedom to tell others why. In the open as to keep it fair-still can do it, just do it by email



Now there is one less resourse for a buyer to expose a bad seller or one less reason for a crooked seller to be honest and sell good fish. Why should they sell good fish, they cant be held accountable on simply anymore.
I think if someone reads a 1000 good comment s about breeder, made by fellow hobbyist that they respect, that will have more weight in determining who most will buy from. We still have a feed back system here its just different from the other forums. By supporting the good breeders you automatically take business away from the bad one.


The problem...

i just am not going to be part of censorship in any form if someone is telling the truth
How does one know if someone is telling the truth and has good intentions? how does one know that someone isn't posting under an alias to attack another breeder... we both know that has happened.

My personal opinion is a breeder that is not honest should be held accountable. But here isn't the place, the legal system is the place, or possibly on other forums.

If this forum is too be fair it must give both breeders and hobbyists the same rights. This is the only way at this time we can do this.

Take care Matt,
and don't be a stranger.
-al :)

[DarkDiscus]

I for one ENCOURAGE people to continue to warn others about any problems they have had with breeders, products, etc. Just using the e-mail methods above.

Word will still spread and those who don't want to hear about it won't have to. IMHO this is the best of both worlds for the members of this forum. I know that the next time I'm thinking about buying from a breeder I don't know, I will ask for some experiences and will enjoy and respect the feedback I get.

I want you all to know that in the past week I have received 42 complaints in my e-mail generated by those with issues with various threads. I KNOW there are lots of people out there who oppose censorship, but there are also a lot of people who don't care for how confrontational these things become.

The point is, we DON'T want to have to decide what's printable and what's not. I've struggled with issues of what to pull and what not to pull for a long time. And with being fair.

All of us here who moderate do it because we love the fish and we want to create a place where people are welcome to come and learn and teach others and talk about DISCUS. We don't do it because we want to be schoolyard supervisors. We don't want to be accused of taking bribes to let some posts stand and to delete others...

I'm sorry if this new policy, with which I wholeheartedly agree, upsets some of you. I'd like for everyone to be 100% satisfied and happy with this board. But I'll settle for 90%.

Thanks all,

John

PS. This is all MY opinion and not necessarily the opinion of the staff and management of Simply.

[Carol_Roberts]

This is a free country, but it is governed by countless laws, rules and regulations. These are in place to benefit the majority of the people - not all of the people, the majority of the people.

When checking references former employers are not allowed to go into great detail on the employee's past performance, but they can state "I would not rehire this person". That speaks volumes.

"I do not reccommend this breeder - please e-mail me for details . . . . " also speaks volumes.

I have also just deleted all my e-mails and IM's over these two threads.

Carol :heart1:

[korbi_doc]

:bounce2: :bounce2: Hi all, I'm really sorry to read 'bout these ongoing arguments which have made the new policy necessary, but it kinda goes with the territory, human nature I guess. Unfortunately it makes for a lot of extra work for you moderators, who, I think, are doing such a great job in face of adversity. I do realize you have your own full lives out there & I appreciate all the hard work you put into this forum, & the time it takes to accomplish this. Please don't let this jeopardize the forum, & do realize that there are lots of us out here who are grateful for all your help & wish to continue this venue. & there is still a method available to anyone who wishes to let it be known if a breeder/seller/buyer is doing unjustified harm to the uninitiated. JMO Dottie (& thank you so much, Mods)

I am sorry I have to disagree, I have never understood about some no name lurker complaining that there are negative posts, that offends them, good god... put things in perspective... If I don't want to read something, then I don't, it is as simple as that, noone is holding my head to the monitor, prying my eyes open, making me read. Obscene, personal comments, self insults or flaming, I could understand, what is wrong in explaining what went wrong and why someone feels this way, positive or negative either way it should have equal place, to be fair.

[DanCBW]

Hey Cary,
or "Braw" as they say here

You better not start feeding your fish once a day !

Anyway I agree with both Al and you. I don't say much on the fourms, but have noticed it gets out of hand a little.
You and I have had conversations about service and we both agree that its best for all to give the best. I would hate to see a few not able to satisfy customers send out their e mails privately, which they have all the right to do. While none of our very satisfied customers or for that matter, us have a chance to say what they want to say.
JMO

BTW
Its Halloween here in Lahiana, 25,000-30,000 "grownups"
show up tonight, so its time to get dressed and ready.

Dan
Aquatic Foods

Dan,
You going as a blackworm?

[brewmaster15]

Hi anand,


Obscene, personal comments, self insults or flaming, I could understand, what is wrong in explaining what went wrong and why someone feels this way, positive or negative either way it should have equal place, to be fair.

In an ideal world you are right, but You have been a part of these forums long enough to know that these breeder/ buyer disputes never are done in a mature civil manner. the facts are always biased in one way or another, and they always spin out of control or are locked/edited etc. The moderators then have to deal with a barage of why this , why that? How dare you apply your judgement on the properness of this or that, as if there was a guide book to what should be acceptible across the broad spectrum of member's backgrounds here. It amazes me how many feel their opinion is the right one for a website that is used freely by many. (this isn't directed at anyone , just the sum of my 6 month tenure as owner of this site)

There just isn't a fair way to deal a situation where one person is claiming one thing, and another is claiming something else. If you know of a site that allows this kind of seasaw back and forth disputing , without it spinning out of control, then let me know.

Everyone wants to have their say, their rights , their freedoms on both sides of the issue. Most also forget there is a much bigger picture that moderators ,and the owners of this site have to deal with. After a long discussion we have determined this is in the sites best interest.

I am truly sorry if it doesn't sit well with some. It was not an easy decision to make. We tried what you suggest Anand... It doesn't work.

take care,
al

[brewmaster15]

Hi Dan,
thanks for stopping by! :)

hey i got my worms today 100% alive as usual, now heres a funny image for....

The scene is 20 teachers sitting around a tray of these worms, with a queasy look on there face as I instruct them to cut them into pieces so they can regenerate, and reproduce assexually...
thats what'll be happening at a workshop I am teaching this saturady! LOL (something I do on the side)

take care,
al

Al,
I am not suggesting anything, at the end of the day, you do what you feel is the best for the forum. I am not sure if having a double standard on someones opinion is a fair way to deal with a public forum. On a breeders point of view I would want my customers to spread the good dealings they had with me... in the same way on a cutomers point of view I want an unbiased experience by others with a seller. If you allow the positive remarks without any restrictions then you should allow any negative experiences as well. This is what I see is fair, and I don't expect others to see the same. Frankly the threads that where locked weren't that bad if you ask me, then again I am not your model poster either.

[ronrca]

Hear ye, hear ye!

Al,
I would not want to be in your position (except having your discus) but hang in there and keep up the great work. I love this forum. I have learned sooo much in these past few months.

As for this issue of disputes, even though we have democracy and freedom of speech, bah, bah, its Al's and Ryan's forum at the end of the day. They own it! They are responsible for it. They have put their time, money and energy into this. They can do want they feel is best and appropriate. Do I agree with their point of view, not really but then on the other hand, I enjoy this forum for what it is, based on sharing experiences and knowledge. I prefer to keep it that way and think that it should be the first priority. Both sides have valid points so I think I will let the mods bash this one out. :smash:

[dogmatix]

Hi Al and all the team

I agree with you all the way on this one, in New Zealand we have a totally different legal system and is very difficult to sue one and other for what i consider to be a no good reason and quite frankly i get sick of hearing people cry like babies because they cant raise good fish ;)
Would it be possible to start a list, maybe photos and or short stories of visits by respected members to discus breeders and sellers? this should be locked or whatever so that is is purely postive recomendations by people.

I feel that you all provide us with a great service that is appreciated by soo many people .
Thanks heaps to you all Ben.

[GA Freshwater]

Can't we all just get along..?? ;D

Wow just got back home from Trick or Treating with my daughter and found a little time to go on line for the first time today and check Simply and find these 2 new pages.
Al, Ryan I feel for you, no matter what you do half of this board is going to disagree with your actions. But hey its your board. You two are the big fish in this pond so everyone has to deal with it or go find another pond to swim in. You two have the best discus board out here for now and I hope it stays that way. It seems several other boards have died a slow death involving the same problems you two are experiencing now.
Who knows maybe your new policy will help.
On a personal note I totally DISAGREE with your new policy but I will totally abide by your rules and live with it. The reasons are many but will not go into them here.
Lets just hope this all blows over and everyone can continue to contribute to this great board.
Randy

[Pick]

Some might say that staying with Simply is now going to be like looking at the world through rose colored glasses. I guess I tend to agree. If I'm interested in the real world drivel I know where to go, there's plenty of it out there. I enjoy a good fight every now and then. But I know that I can learn and post here without having to put up with any fighting (including any I might start).

If I did not like this forum I would leave. I was looking for a good one when I found this one LOL! It's a little like home. I just feel a little safer here.

TC

[fcdiscus]

Al, and Ryan et al, I will say this- i disagree with your decision, but I respect your right and choice to make it as you did. Frank

[Ryan]

I know that people are going to disagree with us, and that's perfectly fine. To be honest, I didn't want to come up with a new policy. However, you guys should see the email that the moderators are getting behind the scenes. Threats, mentions of lawsuits for slander and defamation of character, etc. This is serious business, especially for someone like me who agreed to help with this board for the love of the hobby, not because I wanted to be thrust into the politics.

We have to remember, how much of this board is actually about buyer/seller transactions? This policy should not be a major concern to most of you because A) we discuss a lot of topics aside from buyer/seller transactions, and B) because most of you know how to remain civil and mature.

What this policy is, frankly, is a warning to let everyone know that we can and will delete posts if they get out of hand. Since most of our problems revolved around these specific threads, the "policy" focused on those types of threads.

I totally support Dave Clubine's most recent post. He offered to e-mail his opinions of the breeders he's dealt with to anyone interested. No one is being denied information here, it's just not being discussed publicly, and that will save us all the headache of the bickering and arguing. There are 900+ members here from different backgrounds, cultures, parts of the world, religions, etc. We'll never ALL agree.

At any rate, here's hoping it all blows over and things get back to normal. And as many have said, there are other boards that are unmoderated or less strictly moderated for folks that need a taste of that too. Even the moderators here post at other boards, it's not like there's a competition for number of members or posts. I will continue to post on other forums, as I'm sure many of you will.

Ryan

[scottwheels]

G'day Al and Ryan - I know I'm a bit late with this thread, but there's no way I can keep up any more with the volume of posts that come accross this board every day. It's a testament to success that is high praise indeed! I don't normally post on these topics as they really have nothing to do with me, but I just thought I'd post as a show of support.

I guess no one is sorrier than you guys that it's had to come to this, that you've had to impose a "total fire ban". (pardon the pun) Still there's the email avenue for exchanging negative experiences. I for one am quite happy to post "I had a bad experience with Blah, email me if you want more info." And I will continue to extoll the virtues of good suppliers. Like so many people have said, there's 2 sides to every argument, and the details need to be taken in the context of the situation in which they occured. I really don't think this policy will affect me, or 99% of other posters on this board. Congratulations on a great forum and thanks for all your hard work.

Cheers, Scott

Hey Scott, there is really 3 sides to every story....
the sellers side, the buyers side and the real truth......
HA HA Randy

However, you guys should see the email that the moderators are getting behind the scenes. Threats, mentions of lawsuits for slander and defamation of character, etc.

Sorry you have to go through that ryan, If you ask me you are not liable for any one particular indivijuals opinion, but it is not worth going through a lawsuit, I am disappointed about such emails with mob mentality.

The reason I oppose to this idea is very simple, Like cary mentioned most customers in the discus hobby are one timers, so the unscrupulous sellers count on new customers for their turn around... with lack of information they will keep pulling their con job time after time on unsuspected newcommers to the hobby. But you got to do what you got to do.

[BLUEKNIGHT]

Hi
I agree with the new policy. I can understand how these buisnesses will go at moderators to shut the site down with lawsuits and stuff just so they can rip more people and make more money.

[rfidiscus]

:-X I would like to apologize to all the good crew here on simply discus! I have not been a regular member here and when I was told by several of my customers that I better get on here and defend myself, I did. However this event that took place over 3 years ago seems like it may have served a disservice to this site! As the moderators well know (ask them) we NEVER made any threats of lawsuits or other such threats to anyone. I did not mind defending our company. I really am looking forward to being able to have some of you come and visit so you can all read the truth about RFI... I am well aware of how somepeople can become emotional (but never discus keepers) I have talked with thousands of enthusiasts over the years. There are some shady people out there and they should be exposed... However it seems that the truth is very hard to see sometimes. I really enjoy this site and am really looking forward to using it to its full extent in the future. The ask me email will have to work, but I really wish it hadn't come to this!!!! Once again my apologies.
Tom Meador

[brewmaster15]

Tom,
You have an Instant Message.

-al

[jim_shedden]

Al : I come here to learn not to be apart of a soap opera. I have no problem about the new policy as long as it doesn't take away from the information flow. I agree this forum should not be a platform to aire breeder buyer differences but on the other hand there are some rather rotten things going on that the hobbiest should be kept aware of so that he or she can make an intelligent decision...........but a decision based on fact. As I have said before if it was for people like Al & Cary & others............ I would not be in the hobby.

Keep up the excellent work. : Jim

Anand,

I agree 100% with your comments. Well stated. This new policy will not serve to warn potential victims of unscrupulous dealers. I am not talking of the small misunderstandings between breeder/importer and a customer. I am refering to out right beats.

Al,

I have received dozens of emails and PM's of thanks from 3 different countries including yourself and other moderators of this forum and 2 nasty, no class ones (both from Tom).

[brewmaster15]

Mat,
You seem to feel that this is all about you. You play a role but not the whole thing. Personally I don't care whats in your email box, I care whats in mine, Ryan and the moderators.
For the record I thanked you for your detective work and trying to handle it in a civil fashion on the 28th, when I thought the issue was over. The comment was made based on this sites former policy, and it was an encouragement to handle future threads similarly.




(No subject) on: October 28, 2002, 10:22:33 AM

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nice detective work Mat!


Thats the kind of info that is needed to separate out hearsay from fact, and done in a civil manner.


You know ... "Discus advocate for the people" might be good second income for you.


thanks,
al


often times what I want to say and do is limited by the role I play here. You know I would like nothing better than exposing a dishonest seller. Half the diseases I deal with on this forum come from those individuals.

You might want to try doing something more contructive with your time than beating a dead horse.



Tell you what,
start your own forum, and crusade all you want. I'll even post there . But it isn't happening here.

thanks for making it personal, it just illustrates why this policy is now in place, and yes, you are part of the reason.

If you want to discuss it more, IM or email me. This is getting old real fast. I am continually having it pointed out to me that we let you get away with more than anyone else. ...and they are right., not anymore though.


-al

[Paul]

Al and Ryan,

I haven't been a member but for a few months and don't post alot. I have, however, gained much for which I am extremely grateful to you guys and many other contributors. I must say that I'll miss not getting some of the feedback though. It has been because of both the positive and negative viewpoints posted here that I have been enable to make good decisions regarding who I buy fish from. It has made my intro into discus less stressful knowing that the odds are with me when sending my business to the likes of Cary, Al, Samson, Joe and Mike. I would like to think that most of us are intelligent enough to separate mail that is sent more with emotion from that which is related to actual experiences. However, I do understand your decision. What I am curious to know is whether this new policy will apply to other areas as well. What I'm referring to is the breeder who advertises the heart-shaped discus. While I wouldn't own any, there are no doubt those that would. There is apparently nothing illegal about what they do. It's more of a moral issue. Another area that comes to mind is certain product bashing. Most recently, that has been Ebo heaters. Do we restict ourselves from voicing personal viewpoints about the integrity of that company and commenting that all Ebos are crap? I would think so if I understand the new policy correctly. You could make this same argument for those that go on the forum bad-mouthing Walmart or LFSs. If the real concern here is to distance ourselves from giving anyone the appearance that this forum is either lending or not lending support to businesses, and, avoiding the email you are getting that challenges our right to express such opions, then do we expand this policy to ban ALL negative comments when it relates to someone's livelihood or income? It has got to be a tough call.

Paul

[Top_Bhoy]

I've not been a member too long either, but like many others I've been watching with dismay what has been happening over the last week or two and where this has all been heading. I haven't agreed every time a thread has been locked and have just about stopped myself on one or two occassions obout IM Al etc. on their reasons why it was locked. I stopped myself because I reasoned that unlike them, I didn't know the bigger picture behind the scenes and the abusive mails they were receiving, litigation threats etc. These guys come across as genuine guys who have the interests of discus as the focus of what everyone is here for. Guys you have my support.

I don't know if you'll now thank me or delete me, but when playing about with the address bar, I accidently (honest) came across an old thread that shows, how I think, deals with this problematic issue of good/bad breeders perfectly.

http://forum.simplydiscus.com//index.php?board=12;action=display;threadid=3892

This is not about reopening old wounds, Alexis and Mike have now put aside their differences, but the person who asked the question starting the thread, was given good opinions on Mike and at the same time Alexis was willing to give another alternate viewpoint away from the glare of public dissent. The person asking the question was then free to make their own choice. I see no problem at all in this approach. If at this point the thread had developed into a slanging match with others joining in, then the thread could be locked/edited. Am I being to simplistic in my thinking (ie we are where we are now because some preferred an alternate approach?)

Apologies for the length of this, but being a newbie, I learn a lot from many of you out there and I don't want to see this forum turn into a constant bickering room. I would hate to see this forum implode on itself - everyone is very friendly.

I hope no-one takes offence at my opinion...these are my own and not intended in any way to single anyone out for individual criticism.

I just want to learn about discus.

Regards

Top_Bhoy

Actually Al, I thought none of his was about me. I thought it was all about yet another unfair policy set up by the moral majority (which is actually minority) of this forum.

But now you want to talk about an issue that should have been handed privately, this is a prime example. Double standards do exist here, but only when it is convient for some.

What exactly do I get away with that no one else does?

Mat ;D

Tell you what,
start your own forum, and crusade all you want. I'll even post there . But it isn't happening here.



Now..Now...Now... Al, Don't loose your cool...... :P :P

[Dudley do Discus]

it all sounds MORE THEN FAIR to me.

[calgalindi]

Al,
Is there a way that you can block some one's IP address? I do think you have the right to do it.

[FischAutoTechGarten]

Any of you that question Al's policy need to read this:

http://www.thedefensefund.com/

In fact, you should read it even if you agree with Al, just underscores the need to take these kinds of precautions. At the heart of this suit is several members from the Aquatic Plants Digest mailgroup being sued by relaying negative experiences they've had. This is real stuff. It cost innocent people real money.

The "If you can't say something nice, then don't say anything at all" is the right thing to do to reinforce good behavior/practices from hobbyist/breeders.

[ronrca]

Ive been aware of it but have not followed it. I think its sick! Personnally, I think that by actually sueing people on this manner, you lose more business than if you ignore it in the first place. Besides, just think of all the money and time invest into this rather than the businss! Just my opinion! Just watch, I'll be next! >:( Its really sad

Thomas Barr too? I didnt know that! He's taking on the world! Who's next? The gov't?

[ndiscus]

Hello to Web master all all users.
This is Mark Rubanow From Nassau Discus in New York ;) Yes the Long island Guy!

I should be the one to Appoligize for my latest postings. I know better been around a long time. So All I can say is SORRY ALL> Wont happen again. Not from Me :-X. Rules are in place for a good reason. I lost my venture :'( But I will recover. SO SORRY if I offened anyone. This is my place to hide. Joe, Cary know me I get carried away sometimes. Hope you alll enjoy the summer and if thier are any discus Questions Feel free to ask.
Free point: With discus use no Carbon
Free point: Go with 1 fish every 10 gallons of water no matter what size they are.
Free point: Go with canister filters only on your tank. Over the top fiolters dont work as well. Regardless of it working now thier will come a point when the fish get to large then you start seeing problems steming from the poor water conditions.
Free Point. Dont listen to manufactures about the maintance. WITH CARBON THESE FILTERS MUST BE CLEANED OUT ONCE EVERY TWO TO THREE WEEKS.
fREE pOINTS HAY THEY ARE ALL FREE THATS WHAT THIS IS ABOUT.
Good Hobbing
Mark