Off the Disease Board, lol

[jjgallow]

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Well, after gill flukes, fungus, and acid burn, I've finally got my paramaters back under control and my fish have been disease free and happy.

They mated yesterday!

"Green Mamba" with "Red Panda" (~blue turquoise x ~Pigeon Blood), a prettier pair than anything else local, but not as nice as some of the fish I've seen on this site.

I will post pictures soon, as I am very proud to be posting in this section instead of the disease section, lol!


Unfortunately, they ate the eggs after 12 hours. I've heard of people using some sort of wire mesh to prevent this. Is this a good strategy when they mate next week, or should I just let them try to get it right??

Thanks!

Jeff


p.s.... I salvaged 7 eggs which they left on the bottom and forgot to eat!

I've created a little contraption where they're given running, oxygenated water from the tank they were spawned in. We'll see...

[Carol_Roberts]

Lol Jeff,
I'm glad you've "graduated" from the disease board too.

I'd let your pair go at it a few more times. They may stop eating the eggs. I doubt the eggs on the bottom of the tank were fertilized, but you never know . . . .

Carol :heart1:

[jjgallow]

Well, the 7 eggs looked fuzzy today and I removed the contraption (no surprises here).

The pair are in a discus-only community tank.

My setup is simple..I have two 72 gallon tanks. IF they spawn again, could I move all the other fish into the other tank and could they successfully raise the babies in a 72 gallon?

thanks!

jeff

[EthanCote.com]

A 72 gallon is rather large and the babies might have problem finding the parents at first. And those that strangle too far might not be seen by the parents and get lost.

One solution you can try is to use a divider and separate the pair from the rest of the groups.

But the best solution is to place the pair in their own tanks perferrablely a 29 gallons.

And Carol is correct in saying to leave the pair where they are at. With the other fish around trying to get at the eggs it will bring the parental instinct of the pair out more and hopefully they will put more energy in guarding their nest rather than raiding it.

And just from reading the many posts about this subject, the pair is still rather new and it will take them awhile to get the hang of parenthood. But most importantly, "be patient" ;D ;D ;D (hehehe I know, I know, it is prolly the most hated suggestion by far by newbie breeder)


Cheers,

Chi.

[jjgallow]

Thanks Ethan,

I am a tad worried that fry would escape through the divider, but this may be silly on my part. Hopefully I have less problems and more pictures ;)

[jjgallow]

Okay....

They should spawn again between now and tuesday, and are starting to show interest.

The last time they spawned, they decided to spawn right under the water flow of my aquaclear filter. I have 3 pots situated in my tank, yet they decided to spawn on a small tube directly under the water flow. ::)

I cannot help but assume they did this for a reason. However, I am worried that water flow will prevent fertilization. Should shut off my filter before spawning or can I wait until after spawning?

thanks!

jeff (pretty excited)

[Dennis_Hardenburge]

Jeff
Yes turn the filter off during spawning, if they are spawning in the current.
If this is a young pair just starting to spawn I would give them several tries before screening the eggs, if they are the same age most likely the male won't be mature for a couple months.
And yes they would be fine in a 72 gallon, I breed all my pairs in 65s and have bred a pair in a 130 gallon, it is total hog wash that the fry won't find the parents in a larger tank. The lighting and water movement are the key to good fry attachment and both should be minimal.
I would move the other fish and if there is still a problem egg eating after ten spawns then I would screen the eggs. in other words give the male time to mature.
good luck
Dennis

[jjgallow]

Thanks Everyone!

Love is definitely in the air tonight, exactly six days since their last spawning.
;D

Last time, they ate the eggs in the morning while the tank was still dark. (after protecting and fanning them for almost 12 hours!)

Should I leave my lights on tonight?

(p.s...I turned off my aquaclear, to ensure fertilization.)

[Carol_Roberts]

I'd use a small lamp rather than the tank lights.

Carol :heart1:

[jjgallow]

Thanks Carol, I toned down the lights!

They never mated, unfortunately. Today is day 7, and they're showing more signs of spawning than yesterday. The female has cleaned off literally everything in the tank, and the male has chased everything in the tank. They do their little wiggles with each other and the ovipositor has dropped.

But, like I say the female is cleaning off EVERYTHING rather than just one spot, and the male has not shown intense interest in the cleaning.

Hopefully tonight! ;D

[jjgallow]

Yay!


I'm back in business!

Nice big Spawning! I'm not sure if it was this morning or last night, as I was out. There are only four discus in the 72 gallon tank. The other two are showing no interest in the eggs. Should I remove them or leave them in there for the pair to chase??

leave them in there. This will help the discus learn to protect the eggs and become better parents. After 5 or 6 spawns, or whenever you get wigglers that survive a long time, then move the pair to their own tank or pull out the other fish. A divider may be the way for you to go, as that is quite a large tank.

Brad

[Smokey]

Howdy JJ.
hows the weather in Calgary? Its been snowing, then raining, then windy, over here. A mesh I use to protect the eggs is called knitting mesh. I pick it up at places that sells cloth, knitting, etc supplies. It comes in 8 x 11 inch or so sheets. Good stuff, safe to use, no chemicals, cheap. Or pick up some egg crate from your local hardware store, wonder full stuff. Again safe to use.

Good luck with the spawn, keep us posted

Smokey

[jjgallow]

Thanks BradNC and Smokey!

I will leave them in there, they seem to be doing just fine and I would almost say they enjoy chasing the other fish who look a bit confused with the whole ordeal. ???

Smokey, the weather's great here, lol! We have not a drop of snow, sunshine for two days now. The mesh is a great idea. They haven't eaten any yet, so I'm a bit reluctant but I'm going to fasion something and if they start eating, on it goes. ::)

Thanks again! ;D ;D ;D

Only use the mesh if you have a problem with the pair eating the eggs. Otherwise they will ward off the other fish without a problem. The problem arises with the fry become free swimming...then the other fish get a nice meal. I'd put an egg crate in the middle of the tank if you really want to see if you can save these fry. Just put your pair on one side and your other fish on the other. Try to keep the cone away from the egg crate so when free swimming does occur they don't swim to the other side to become a nice meal...lol
good luck!
Brad

[jjgallow]

Thanks for the advice and support! ;)

I do get excited about these fish. It's my first time taking pictures, I apologize for the quality but I think it's starting to stress them so I'll have to improve my techniques another time.

This Pic is the female. "Red Panda".

P.S....should I be feeding them??

[jjgallow]

Female busy chasing other fish, male scared of camera....

notice how they managed to choose the sponge filter over all the pots, lol

[jjgallow]

Bad Picture of the male....."green mamba"...very camera shy.

They actually are tending the eggs, but I don't have any good pictures of it. The male runs away from the camera and the female didn't show up well. doh!

[jjgallow]

trying to get better with the pictures...

[jjgallow]

neeed....more....focus!!

keep us updated!!!

[jjgallow]

Eaten, lol. Maybe next week.

[jjgallow]

They spawned again!

Hopefully a little more experienced now.


They spawned right on the glass, so hopefully I can provide some good close-ups.

[jjgallow]

Here's the eggs, 1st day. You can see quite a bit of detail.

[jjgallow]

They ate the eggs I took pictures of, alas.

However, they've just spawned for their fourth attempt this morning.

I won't post pictures as I really don't want to spook them.

Maybe 4's the charm?

[SNap0283]

Good luck with #4! Hopefully something happens here. Have you had any wigglers yet? Keep us updated

Jef

[jjgallow]

Well, onto attempt #6! This time I've used a plastic cage around the eggs.

It's day 2.5, and they should hatch soon. There are only about 20 left that are still dark :(

[jjgallow]

GEEEEEEEZ!

GeEEEZERS!

GEEZERS CREEPERS!

That's it, these fish are just natural bad parents. The eggs hatched, and were fertile. I removed the cage. The parents immediately ATE them. All of them. Before I could even pull it out. Every last fish. Gone. ZIP!

Next time I will raise them artificially. Guaranteed. I WILL get offspring from them! After I've raised them artificially, they can try however many times to get it right themselves, and I don't care how many eggs they eat. But they are playing NO part in their next batch! None! Off for adoption!

GGRRR!



:'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(

[Carol_Roberts]

Bad parents :thumbsdown: :thumbsdown: :thumbsdown:

[Smokey]

...PATIENCE... HELL... I'M GOING TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Go for it JJ.

Smokey

[jjgallow]

Well, my fish spawned on Valentines and I have now ventured into the world of artificial rearing since the parents can't seem to get it right.

I will try to follow Brewmaster's guidance as it has been very successful.
http://forum.simplydiscus.com//index.php?board=6;action=display;threadid=1262;sta rt=0

Attached is a pic of the eggs on Day 0 (it was a small spawn of about 60)

[jjgallow]

Never can have too many pics for your firstborn! (looks like I'm going to be the parent instead of the fish) ::) ::) ::)

Lots of Methyl Blue has kept all but two eggs fungus free, and I removed those two myself.

I turned the eggs to a side view because I'm hoping ;) to get wiggler pictures tommorrow!!! :o

Picture below is Day One, or 24 hours:

[Smokey]

Watching with antisipatienance!!! more pics and update, eh!!!

[jjgallow]

Almost all hatched! Beatiful, Beautiful babies! Here come the REAL challenges! :o

The few fungused eggs shouldn't infect the healthies now, should they? Or should I continue with methyl blue?

Also...should I be treating for flukes at this point?

Last question, water is almost RO quality. Time to increase hardness?

Below is a 2 day (55 hour) picture:

[wo]

Hi jjgallow:

Very nice and clear pic. I did not use any med at this point.

[Carol_Roberts]

Congratulations :thumbsup: It sure is exciting isn't it?

Don't mess with them too much. The parents will do all the work. I've never added meds. When they are attached to parents remove the cone.

I'd change 10% of the water morning and night . . . . slowly and gently . . . . with water of the same temp and just a bit harder. Feed sparingly.

[jjgallow]

Hi Carol!

I wish...unfortunately these are the bad parents (this is a long thread of failures with this pair).

I have to do it artificially. So far, so good. All are alive and well. We'll see tomorrow!

[jjgallow]

Well, they're a swimmin.

If they eat the food, I'm in the clear. Here's to hoping!

[jjgallow]

Well, my atificial batch didn't turn out. There was a family emergency and they were left a whole day without food. Gone. :(

Now I'm Really busy...and guess what's happened...they've taken things into their own hands and since I don't have time to raise the fry, they are!

They're taking care of the wrigglers right now, and haven't eaten any. About 300 eggs this time!

Guess it pays to leave things to nature.

[Carol_Roberts]

I hope all goes well for you this time ;D

[Symphysodon166]

Hey Jeff, I guess you got that Green mamba from Jack Wattley down in Fort Lauterdale? looks cool. Id like to see what the babies look like from that pair! - Jason

[jjgallow]

Thanks, Symphysodon!

yes yes, it's a Florida fish. I'm pretty curious to see what the heck these ones will look like too. So far, small and wriggling!

Parents are doing an excellent job...I'm pleasantly surprised! All ~300 fry are having a good old time on the bodies of the male and female.

If these little guys make it, I'll post pics when I get some colors ;)

[Smokey]

jjgallow- how about an update!
Its been 2 weeks, so we need new info...and pics!!!

Smokey

[jjgallow]

Sorry for the delay, Smokey!

Just removed the parents today, been three weeks. Roughly 60 left. For a beginner, I'm happy with that. I've had a hard time with the picture resolution. Half the offspring are dark and peppered, like the one in this very pathetic picture below. The other half are quite interesting, taking on and orange tint with some red markings that are quite different from either parent. Hopefully I'll get some better resolution and show both soon.

cheers!

[jjgallow]

Okay, I've been working on picture quality in hopes of showing the two types of fish i have. There are peppereds and ones with red tints. 50/50 split. Let me know what you think....they are my first but I am not offended :)

[jjgallow]

A so-so picture ...pretty blurry. I'm trying!

[jjgallow]

Small family photo

[jjgallow]

I swear that the reds are more camera shy...have had an aweful time getting any pictures. Here's one...this nipper darted away before i could get any decent resolution.

[jjgallow]

One of my nicest fish but not the best picture once again....I'm really, really trying! Just have a dig. videocamera, not an actual digital camera. Are the markings pretty common of pigeon bloods? I wouldn't know.

[Smokey]

They look great!!! Some potiential breeders there. IMOP.

good work jj.

Smokey